Canadian Family Demands Justice For Pai Killing

[george]

Family of Calgary man killed in Thai police shooting urges Canada to intervene

CALGARY, Canada: -- The family of a Calgary man killed after he was shot point blank in Thailand is urging the Canadian government to step up the pressure on the government of Thailand to close the case.

Leo John Del Pinto, 25, was killed January 6 by an off-duty police officer of the Pai Police Department. Police had originally said the shooting was accidental, but the Thai Department of Special Investigations later ruled the point blank shots to the head and chest were not.

The Department of Foreign Affairs has informed the family that an initial investigation is done and that indications are favourable for prosecution, but still there is no court date set to try the officer.

"This guy has got to be brought to trial and justice has to be served," said father Ernie Del Pinto.

The family wants the federal government to further pressure the Thai government to set a deadline for the case to come to court.

Foreign Affairs spokesman Alain Cacchione said Secretary of State Helena Guergis has written two letters to Thailand, that the department is in regular contact with Thai authorities and that it is keeping the family up to speed.

"They are keeping us up to date with what's going on," said Del Pinto family lawyer Adriano Iovinelli, "but what we think is required is more pressure from the Canadian government to say 'look when could we get a deadline on this? When will this matter actually proceed?'"

-- Calgary Herald, Canada 2008-07-16

[Scott]

Best of luck to the family on this. My guess is that aging Nazi war criminals living in Argentina are more likely to get justice done to them that the police officer in Pai.

[Seneque]

Foreign Affairs spokesman Alain Cacchione said Secretary of State Helena Guergis has written two letters to Thailand

Is that all the canadians can do ...? I hope not ... but to ask this thai government to do something about the case ?... well good luck, you will need plenty of it.

[Artisi]

Foreign Affairs spokesman Alain Cacchione said Secretary of State Helena Guergis has written two letters to Thailand

Is that all the canadians can do ...? I hope not ... but to ask this thai government to do something about the case ?... well good luck, you will need plenty of it.

Might as well p#ss-into-the-wind for all the good 2 letters will do.

[Tony Clifton]

Do take time to sign the petition.

[ding]

Best of thoughts for the victim and his family.

[tartempion]

Do take time to sign the petition.

with pleasure, sing where?

Could do the same for poor Dale from Ranong killed on order by his lovely wife, he needs justice as well.

Can someone kick the Canadian authorities where I think?

[sriracha john]

Family of slain Canadian frustrated at lack of progress in Thai murder case

CALGARY - Six months after his son was gunned down in Thailand, Ernie Del Pinto is stepping up his public campaign to get the Canadian government to get involved and ensure justice is served.

"I'm not going to let this go," Del Pinto said Tuesday of his frustrating efforts to have someone found guilty for the killing of his son Leo in January.

A transit bus ad campaign in Calgary is hoped to bring in cash for the newly created 'Justice for Leo' fund. And he hopes public pressure will force Ottawa to do more.

The Department of Foreign Affairs says Secretary of State Helena Guergis has written twice to the Thai foreign minister and continues to press for a thorough and transparent investigation into the shooting.

Foreign Affairs said that the Thai government has appointed the Department of Special Investigations to lead the investigation into Leo's death, and in the meantime they "continue to monitor developments on the investigation closely."

But that's cold comfort for Del Pinto.

"They can monitor all they want. If this doesn't go ahead and get brought to trial, we're not going to get anywhere."

An off-duty Thai police sergeant was arrested and charged with premeditated murder in the case, but as far as the Del Pintos know he is out of jail, still carrying a badge, and still working.

Del Pinto says his son was shot at close range in the face and chest for defending his friend, fellow Canadian Carly Reisig, and did nothing to deserve the attack.

Family lawyer Adriano Iovinelli say an initial Thai police investigation called it an "accidental shooting," but the country's human rights commission and several other boards have since disagreed.

Yet even though it's become a national investigation, half a year after Leo's murder the family still doesn't know if the prosecution has finished its investigation or when or if a trial will be held.

Iovinelli says Ottawa should demand that the Thai government set strict deadlines for court dates to push the matter forward.

And until that happens, Del Pinto says Canadians should avoid Thailand.

"I might be speaking out of line here, but I want their tourism to hurt. Because they've got to understand they killed a Canadian citizen - an innocent Canadian boy."

- The Canadian Press / 15-07-08

[Gravelrash]

Without pressure I am sure we all know that nothing will ever happen. What is worse, the Thai government letting the police bury it or the the foreign government being disinterested?

Foreign government apathy and disinterest in seeking justice for their murdered citizens just encourages the local attitude to continue. That of course doesn't help any of us here.

[cloudhopper]

Without pressure I am sure we all know that nothing will ever happen. What is worse, the Thai government letting the police bury it or the the foreign government being disinterested?

Foreign government apathy and disinterest in seeking justice for their murdered citizens just encourages the local attitude to continue. That of course doesn't help any of us here.

The real mission of diplomatic missions is to keep trade relationships humming. Providing help for expats or their survivors will always be way down the list.

[keyman]

Without pressure I am sure we all know that nothing will ever happen. What is worse, the Thai government letting the police bury it or the the foreign government being disinterested?

Foreign government apathy and disinterest in seeking justice for their murdered citizens just encourages the local attitude to continue. That of course doesn't help any of us here.

The real mission of diplomatic missions is to keep trade relationships humming. Providing help for expats or their survivors will always be way down the list.

Really? You think so? I mean, how much trade could there be between Thailand and Canada? I bet their consular team is busier here than in most other countries, seeing the range of expats I do in the city. And what about in Burma? I bet the Embassy there doesn't do trade at all. I mean, doesn't Canada have laws against trading with the Burman govt? I don't know, it just seems to me that there's more to this just taking easy potshots at burocrats. Every time this topic comes up all these attacks from expats start of their own govt. I don't know why all the hating has to start again. Things are bad enough without us adding to the noise.

[Kerryd]

True enough. Doesn't seem to matter which gov't is in power (in Canada), unless it's politically expedient, or the center of media attention, little more than "lip service" will be rendered.

One has to remember at the same time though, that there is little Canada could do in this case anyways. It can't force the Thai gov't to do anymore than it is doing.

The case isn't important enough, and Canada doesn't have much in the way of leverage that it could use to try and convince Thailand to do more.

What do people actually think the Canadian government can do ? Fire off a strongly worded letter of protest ? Threaten economic sanctions ? Go to the UN ? Threaten air strikes ? Not likely in any case.

I mean seriously, what do you think Canada can actually do ? The answer is, not much. Period.

And quite frankly, most nations tend to take a dim view of foreign interference in their judicial matters. Attempts to pressure Thailand into taking more action could just as easily back-fire, and result in even less effort to resolve the case than is apparent now. Making comments like this:

"I want their tourism to hurt"

is not going to win them any friends or favourtism in Thai eyes.

I may be a wee bit too cynical, but I wonder just what the purpose of the "Justice for Leo" fund-raising campaign is.

[cloudhopper]

Without pressure I am sure we all know that nothing will ever happen. What is worse, the Thai government letting the police bury it or the the foreign government being disinterested?

Foreign government apathy and disinterest in seeking justice for their murdered citizens just encourages the local attitude to continue. That of course doesn't help any of us here.

The real mission of diplomatic missions is to keep trade relationships humming. Providing help for expats or their survivors will always be way down the list.

Really? You think so? I mean, how much trade could there be between Thailand and Canada? I bet their consular team is busier here than in most other countries, seeing the range of expats I do in the city. And what about in Burma? I bet the Embassy there doesn't do trade at all. I mean, doesn't Canada have laws against trading with the Burman govt? I don't know, it just seems to me that there's more to this just taking easy potshots at burocrats. Every time this topic comes up all these attacks from expats start of their own govt. I don't know why all the hating has to start again. Things are bad enough without us adding to the noise.

Consulates no doubt spend a disproportionate amount of time dealing with the needs and adventures of their citizens, but will rarely do so IMO at the expense of good diplomatic relations.

[WilliamCave]

as to the family my heart is with you.

When on thaivisa I read many threads about the value of a human life in Asia. It is worth more than a Canadians life,

the Government of Canada puts politically correct as the agenda to uphold not the life of a Canadian.

The usual from the govt of Canada send a letter..Whipty <deleted>,,do.

I wounder what the Americans would do or Australia Brittan they would be on the Thai govt like a pit bull on a bone.

I was talking to some one in connected with the Australian embassy and said the canadian embassy is useless and they smiled as to say they knew what I was talking about.

[kat]

I'm glad the family is speaking up and keeping this case on the public agenda. The question is how do we push this on the Thai agenda?

And where is the suspect now, and how has he spent the last six months?

[sabaijai]

True enough. Doesn't seem to matter which gov't is in power (in Canada), unless it's politically expedient, or the center of media attention, little more than "lip service" will be rendered.

One has to remember at the same time though, that there is little Canada could do in this case anyways. It can't force the Thai gov't to do anymore than it is doing.

The case isn't important enough, and Canada doesn't have much in the way of leverage that it could use to try and convince Thailand to do more.

What do people actually think the Canadian government can do ? Fire off a strongly worded letter of protest ? Threaten economic sanctions ? Go to the UN ? Threaten air strikes ? Not likely in any case.

I mean seriously, what do you think Canada can actually do ? The answer is, not much. Period.

And quite frankly, most nations tend to take a dim view of foreign interference in their judicial matters. Attempts to pressure Thailand into taking more action could just as easily back-fire, and result in even less effort to resolve the case than is apparent now. Making comments like this:

"I want their tourism to hurt"

is not going to win them any friends or favourtism in Thai eyes.

I may be a wee bit too cynical, but I wonder just what the purpose of the "Justice for Leo" fund-raising campaign is.

That line struck me as well, along with the 'they' killed Leo, as if all of Thailand were responsible. I wish the Del Pintos the best with bringing the policeman to justice, but I hope they can let go of their apparent vindictiveness towards Thailand and those who earn their daily rice here in the many livelihoods related to tourism. As you say, that attitude won't endear Thai authorities to their cause.

[kat]

True enough. Doesn't seem to matter which gov't is in power (in Canada), unless it's politically expedient, or the center of media attention, little more than "lip service" will be rendered.

One has to remember at the same time though, that there is little Canada could do in this case anyways. It can't force the Thai gov't to do anymore than it is doing.

The case isn't important enough, and Canada doesn't have much in the way of leverage that it could use to try and convince Thailand to do more.

What do people actually think the Canadian government can do ? Fire off a strongly worded letter of protest ? Threaten economic sanctions ? Go to the UN ? Threaten air strikes ? Not likely in any case.

I mean seriously, what do you think Canada can actually do ? The answer is, not much. Period.

And quite frankly, most nations tend to take a dim view of foreign interference in their judicial matters. Attempts to pressure Thailand into taking more action could just as easily back-fire, and result in even less effort to resolve the case than is apparent now. Making comments like this:

"I want their tourism to hurt"

is not going to win them any friends or favourtism in Thai eyes.

I may be a wee bit too cynical, but I wonder just what the purpose of the "Justice for Leo" fund-raising campaign is.

Well it's obvious that the purpose of the Leo Campaign is justice. It is certainly lacking with the state of affairs at the moment. What do you suggest they do after their son was gunned down in questionable circumstances, with no date for a trial set in 6 months, slink away and forget about it?

[sriracha john]

Making comments like this:

"I want their tourism to hurt"

is not going to win them any friends or favourtism in Thai eyes.

It's what I would expect any parent, given the background, would say. Many people around the world would think what would be most damaging to Thailand and come up with tourism as an answer... even tho' in reality it plays a small role in the overall economy. He could have easily come up with "Boycott rice" which is another misconceived notion that outsiders have the impression is the number 1 money source for Thailand, when it's not.

This is a father that is understandably very frustrated with how things have developed. He's going to lash out... that he has already tempered it down to this degree far exceeds what other fathers might have been capable of saying or doing.

Putting myself in his shoes, I can give him a very large leeway to pretty much say whatever the frick he wants to say. If kept in the context of what he could have said, what he did say was not that outrageous.

[Shah Jahan]

I saw the officer in question walking around an evening food festival in Pai a few weeks ago in plain clothes - talking to all the villagers like nothing was amiss. I dont know if he is actually still on duty or not, though SabaiJai may know better as he seems to have other sources of information.

Though this seems to be playing out in typical local fashion instead of admitting or denying his guilt, they will just draw the process out for as long as they can until everybody forgets. Kinda like when you reach a thai call center and the operator doesnt know the answer to your question (or you wont like the answer) - instead of just telling you that, they put you on hold until you hang up and go away. This is exactly the same.

Interesting idea though - there will be a new foreign minister appointed in the next week - if propositioned correctly, he may find it in his advantage to push this case through just for the sake of flexing his own muscles and building big face.

But the overall point being that most likely nothing will ever happen with the Thai justice system. Interesting thing about this culture is that the loser/dead tends to always be viewed in the wrong as they vow towards the mystery of "Karma" meaning that if a person really deserves punishment - that "Karma" will come and take care of that in terms of getting hit by a bus or falling of his motorbike or something else..... then after this bad "Karma" happens - all the villagers can stand around and eat raw pork and play cards while they talk about all the bad things that this person did in order to bring that fate upon themselves

[sabaijai]

I saw the officer in question walking around an evening food festival in Pai a few weeks ago in plain clothes - talking to all the villagers like nothing was amiss. I dont know if he is actually still on duty or not, though SabaiJai may know better as he seems to have other sources of information.

Though this seems to be playing out in typical local fashion instead of admitting or denying his guilt, they will just draw the process out for as long as they can until everybody forgets. Kinda like when you reach a thai call center and the operator doesnt know the answer to your question (or you wont like the answer) - instead of just telling you that, they put you on hold until you hang up and go away. This is exactly the same.

Interesting idea though - there will be a new foreign minister appointed in the next week - if propositioned correctly, he may find it in his advantage to push this case through just for the sake of flexing his own muscles and building big face.

But the overall point being that most likely nothing will ever happen with the Thai justice system. Interesting thing about this culture is that the loser/dead tends to always be viewed in the wrong as they vow towards the mystery of "Karma" meaning that if a person really deserves punishment - that "Karma" will come and take care of that in terms of getting hit by a bus or falling of his motorbike or something else..... then after this bad "Karma" happens - all the villagers can stand around and eat raw pork and play cards while they talk about all the bad things that this person did in order to bring that fate upon themselves

All too true. Just as natural a reaction, culturally, for the Thais, as the westerner's diffused anger towards Thailand, from the western perspective. Both, in their own way, non-productive.

Sriracha john I wasn't suggesting the father's reaction wasn't natural. But possibly counter-productive. 'Boycott Thailand, and the Thai authorities will be forced to act on our behalf. Target the whole country to put pressure on the guilty parties.' All natural responses.

[Spee]

As for the real victims in this case, they need to kick up a fuss - as the canucklhead govt couldn't give a dam_n about them - they need to kick sh+t here - and smear Canada OVER HERE while thery're at it. What a waste of time with some light-weight lawyer in cow-town or wherever.

I agree very much with these sentiments. Put yourself in the family's shoes or imagine yourself as the victim. If this had happened to one of my family members (whether in Thailand or anywhere else) I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure that justice was served, up to and including resolution outside of the legal system if necessary. If this ever happened to me, I would hope that my family would have the courage and conviction to do the same.

Murder is murder. People want to try to shrug it off by saying Thailand is dangerous and value of human life in the ASEAN region is very low. Well I'm sorry, but that kind of passive acceptance and tolerance is not going to make things better. Shot point blank in the head and chest. Nothing other than self defense in a life threatening situation would justify this type of response. To accept or tolerate any other rationale or lack of justice is simply madness.

Criminals do these things because they have no fear of the law or fear of repercussions. The only way to change this mindset is increased enforcement of law, increased prosecution and death penalty (or at least life without parole) sentences for murderers convicted beyond a reasonable doubt. Personally, I find life without parole to be cruel and inhuman punishment and believe death penalty to be fair and equitable justice. I hope this guy is brought into custody and made to face justice as soon as possible.

[Shah Jahan]

I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure that justice was served, up to and including resolution outside of the legal system if necessary.

[harleyclarkey]

This is dreadful reading....I feel so for the poor parents of this totally innoocent man.

There for the grace of God go I.

It could have been me ...or YOU... your brother, sister, mother, father, et al. at the end of this lunatics gun.

Still in uniform?? Still with his gun? Has Thailand, no the powers that be, gone completely mad? They don't care do they, of what any civilised country thinks of them? They show daily just what they really think of Farang.

[harleyclarkey]

SABAIJAI......All too true. Just as natural a reaction, culturally, for the Thais, as the westerner's diffused anger towards Thailand, from the western perspective. Both, in their own way, non-productive.

Sriracha john I wasn't suggesting the father's reaction wasn't natural. But possibly counter-productive. 'Boycott Thailand, and the Thai authorities will be forced to act on our behalf. Target the whole country to put pressure on the guilty parties.' All natural responses.

Are you for real??? Anger? His son is MURDERED by an "officer" of the peace and you suggest his reaction is somehow odd?? The same lunatic is back on the streets strutting his stuff with the clear sanction of higher authorities.

Edited July 16, 2008 by harleyclarkey

[Tony Clifton]

Do take time to sign the petition.

with pleasure, sing where?

Could do the same for poor Dale from Ranong killed on order by his lovely wife, he needs justice as well.

Can someone kick the Canadian authorities where I think?

http://www.justiceforleo.com/petition

I agree with the father's comments about hurting the tourism. On many occasions the police and justice system simply seem to do nothing to help, even going as far as interfering with the judicial process, not protecting crime scenes and coming up with ridiculous investigation results and comments. Japanese girl murdered in Ayutthaya, Russian girls in Phuket, two Korean girls tied together with bashed heads a suicide, many more cases I won't mention , policemen ( the laughing stock of the country)running rackets all over the country. I guarantee you some are already thinking the Kanchanaburi killer cop has already spent enough time in jail, poor him, even though he has killed not one but two foreigners.

Thailand needs to clean up it's act. Your embassies won't do sh!t about this problem because trade has more importance over tourism and tourists safety.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[geriatrickid]

When on thaivisa I read many threads about the value of a human life in Asia. It is worth more than a Canadians life. What?Is there a conversion chart or something? Have you ever seen how some asians are treated in asia? Whatever injustice a foreigner suffers it pales in comparison to what some asians endure on a daily basis.

the Government of Canada puts politically correct as the agenda to uphold not the life of a Canadian. Yea right. It's something called reality. When you leave Canada you do take your chances and the foreign affairs department posts explicit warnings on its website. Read Kerryd's excellent post again.

The usual from the govt of Canada send a letter..Whipty <deleted>,,do.

I wounder what the Americans would do or Australia Brittan they would be on the Thai govt like a pit bull on a bone. The Americans give alot of aid to Thailand. They engage in joint military policing and rescue exercises. When U.S. military personnel visit they usually spend some time cleaning or building something. The Australians provide alot of tourists and infrastructure assistance. Thailand is also in the Australian sphere of influence. They have clout. What does Canada give or do? Almost nothing. The presence isn't felt, known or demonstrated. That's because the Canadian taxpayers don't want the government spendng money in Thailand. There is no bargaining clout. Whether you like it or not, that's how international politics works.

was talking to some one in connected with the Australian embassy and said the canadian embassy is useless and they smiled as to say they knew what I was talking about.

I don't think the opinion of a clerk or contract employee is significant. If the Australian government felt that way, it wouldn't have signed an agreement with Canada whereby responsibility for some consular services and the protection of Australian citizens was assigned to Canadian consulates and embassies. The Australians could have easily turned to the mother country, the UK , but picked Canada. I wonder why?

So are you paying sufficient taxes to the Canadian government to cover the services you think are necessary? Having a fully staffed conslate or embassy is an expensive proposition. The Canadian taxpayers have said that foreign affairs is not a priority and this has been reflected in the massive cutbacks in budget and staffing levels. If you want a legal intervention officer on hand, then be prepared to pay a wage commensurate with the pivate sector ($85,000.-$125,000) and not the junior FA wage of $40,000. There's been an outflow of competent foreign affairs staff for a long time because the pay is significantly less than what is paid in the private sector. The Canadian public that pays taxes,for the most part doesn't care about these things over the long term.

The family is going about it the right way by trying to attract public attention in Canada. Once public opinion changes, then the government may act. That too is the reality of politics.

Edited July 17, 2008 by geriatrickid

[sabaijai]

SABAIJAI......All too true. Just as natural a reaction, culturally, for the Thais, as the westerner's diffused anger towards Thailand, from the western perspective. Both, in their own way, non-productive.

Sriracha john I wasn't suggesting the father's reaction wasn't natural. But possibly counter-productive. 'Boycott Thailand, and the Thai authorities will be forced to act on our behalf. Target the whole country to put pressure on the guilty parties.' All natural responses.

Are you for real??? Anger? His son is MURDERED by an "officer" of the peace and you suggest his reaction is somehow odd??

I didn't say I thought it was odd. I said it was natural. Are you for real?

[A_Traveller]

The issue here is that for the family, as I see it, they have the tragedy to deal with, and, find themselves confronted with a system which does not appear to function as they might expect. Since the fiasco of the officer not being charged initially, contrary to official public statements, and this occurring only after the Human Rights led hearing, one can, surely understand that cynicism.

Further look at the reaction when the Thai authorities believe there is a serious tourist impact from a crime, the old adage of 'When you have someone by the wallet their mind will follow' comes to the fore. The difference in the official responses {and speed} to the Horton matter, for example, must rankle.

It is doubly unfortunate that those herein who have vested interests try to obfuscate the core issues, and in doing so, only contribute to the febrile atmosphere.

The father's call is for justice, not a lynching, and he, relatives and friends, should be entitled to see that the authorities act in a fair and effective manner. The expectation of many here, I suspect, is that given the position of the accused, there will be a tendency to act slowly, almost at a civil case speed, which easily becomes years, with obfuscation from the investigators {to be fair, the inevitable 'one of us' syndrome}, and an underlying perspective that pressure, such as it is, is a long way away.

As to what the Canadian government can do, well, despite being derided 'letters' are relevant, since there is a whole code of presenting diplomatic, or not so diplomatic, requests, from notes, letters, and memoranda. The painful reality is that Thailand is, to use the politicly correct version, a developing nation, with all the concomitant rule of law issues.

On the donations front, well not everyone has equity in their house or savings sufficient to support a legal case on the other side of the world.

Regards

[girlx]

it doesn't look like any of you are signing the petition. i doubt a petition will do a dam_n thing in thailand, but might as well try.

SIGN HERE!: petition

[sbk]

Posts have been deleted. Lets keep this within the realm of the legal please.