Does Thailand Qualify For First World Status?

[dotcom]

Are we not allowed to call someone a mutt ?

[dotcom]

ere ere, and freedom of speech would go a long way, and to sustain a healthy tourism trade they need to recognise the importance of western investment and welcome western tourists, not persecute them

Yeah & one more thing. If they want tourists they should take out the trash.

Seriously one more thing that's seriously missing. Zoning laws.

You can have a wheel stamping factory - running around the clock - in the middle of a moo ban & not a GD thing anyone can say to you.

Someone should explain the concept of land use & zoning to these folks. Right now today - 3rd world. No question.

[LaoPo]

The ONLY way out for Thailand to become a First World Status country is:

education - education and education.

Without proper and higher education.....it will take more than a few decades (which I mentioned earlier) for Thailand to reach such status.

Countries/states like South Korea, Japan (which lost WWII.....), Singapore, Hong Kong and even nowadays India (IT industry) and China are examples of countries who understood that education is the tool to the future.

LaoPo

[Chaimai]

I can remember my first visit to Thailand 20 years ago, street girls selling themselves just for a meal.

They still do....

...... only now, it is a meal for 2 at King Sea

[qwertz]

I can remember my first visit to Thailand 20 years ago, street girls selling themselves just for a meal.

They still do....

...... only now, it is a meal for 2 at King Sea

Dunno where he did his shopping, Chaimai, Iwas first there 28 years ago and they were never that cheap to my knowledge.

[haybilly]

The ONLY way out for Thailand to become a First World Status country is:

education - education and education.

Without proper and higher education.....it will take more than a few decades (which I mentioned earlier) for Thailand to reach such status.

Countries/states like South Korea, Japan (which lost WWII.....), Singapore, Hong Kong and even nowadays India (IT industry) and China are examples of countries who understood that education is the tool to the future.

LaoPo

This post and your previous post sum this topic up--and take away the 'loss of face' and the fact that any subordinate can never question their superiors judgement--blindly following, etc..evn when totally off-whack--all in all it's decades from being 'First World'.

For some people, though, this is part of the charm--those fed up with rat-race mentality.

I, however, am not one.

[duncaw]

I had this argument in a bar several years ago, the discussion went on for several days until somebody "proved" (I can't remember how) that the definitions of 1st / 2nd / 3rd world countries went back to the cold war:

1st World - allied with USA/NATO

2nd World - allied with USSR/Warsaw Pact

3rd World - allied with neither

Ever since I've used the more up to date descriptors;

Developed Country

Developing Country

Undeveloped Country

Under those definitions I think there's no doubt Thailand is a Developing Country

Edited July 29, 2008 by duncaw

[wolfmanjack]

ere ere, and freedom of speech would go a long way, and to sustain a healthy tourism trade they need to recognise the importance of western investment and welcome western tourists, not persecute them

Yeah & one more thing. If they want tourists they should take out the trash.

Seriously one more thing that's seriously missing. Zoning laws.

You can have a wheel stamping factory - running around the clock - in the middle of a moo ban & not a GD thing anyone can say to you.

Someone should explain the concept of land use & zoning to these folks. Right now today - 3rd world. No question.

Actually my factory license says that i can only operate from sun up to sundown. There are also green areas, yellow areas and red areas that are supposed to determine what type of business can be in that area. So there are zoning laws of a sort but they are not strictly adhered to due to the corruption.

[JR Texas]

ere ere, and freedom of speech would go a long way, and to sustain a healthy tourism trade they need to recognise the importance of western investment and welcome western tourists, not persecute them

Yeah & one more thing. If they want tourists they should take out the trash.

Seriously one more thing that's seriously missing. Zoning laws.

You can have a wheel stamping factory - running around the clock - in the middle of a moo ban & not a GD thing anyone can say to you.

Someone should explain the concept of land use & zoning to these folks. Right now today - 3rd world. No question.

Actually my factory license says that i can only operate from sun up to sundown. There are also green areas, yellow areas and red areas that are supposed to determine what type of business can be in that area. So there are zoning laws of a sort but they are not strictly adhered to due to the corruption.

Just putting in my two cents (not directed at Wolfman).......Thailand is not even close to first world status.........it is third world status and declining in many respects (e.g., rule of law, quality of life for majority, environmental integrity, sustainability). The massive greed and indifference of those at the top is thwarting the type of changes necessary to reach first world status. The current xenophobic trend against foreigners is not helping matters.

[Shotime]

Someone already said that the lack of a middle class (and the education opportunities that comes with having one that can afford it. Public or private), will keep Thailand in 3rd world status. Parents who have no desire or ability to improve their children's lot in life as compared to their own will keep it there for the time being. I'm in a serious mood this morning so....

Confuscious said something like - In a well governed country, the poor are something to be ashamed of. In a badly governed country, the wealthy are something to be ashamed of.

In Thailand, the wealthy have no desire to change anything. Even a little bit. I'm guessing that a lot of dirty money flows into Thailand, but that only leads to low-paying jobs for the people.

Third world countries are not that bad for a lot of reasons. At least the family still means something here. Rural communities are generally much nicer places to live in. Dependence on each other breeds closeness. The government should still try to help a little. At least don't keep taking advantage of the people.

[farang555]

thailand is the best non elite country is the world. lets keep it that way!

please close this thread, we really dont want los to change do we?

[Shotime]

^ I'm starting to make sense out of his posts lately. Is it something I should worry about? Giddyup 555.

[mizzi39]

Thailand is a major player Internationally,.....

REALLY ?

Maybe study world economics a bit ?

Does Thailand Qualify For First World Status?

No, not in another few decades.

LaoPo

I stand corrected! Thank you for your insight!

[geriatrickid]

NO.

There seems to be low unemployment, Yes. Because production is still based upon ineffcient methods that rely on lots of cheap labour. A growing concern is the impact that the current HIV & growing TB crises will have on the workforce as more and more young males are removed from the labour pool.

health care can be compared to that of the West, Sure, but only when compared to some regions in the west where medical care is hard to obtain and where there are shortages of specialists and hospital beds. Thailand is a health system lacking in oversight, accessibility and consistent quality. If you are a rich farang and can pay for a fancy hospital in Bangers, you might be ok. (My job gives me medevac flight insurance.) However, if you are poor and in Chiang Rai and develop cancer, hopefully you die fast because the likelihood of obtaining top quality care or even proper treatment is low.

educational facilities are up to good standard,

Forgive me, I had to go change my nappie as I wet myself laughing.

I can't think of any cutting edge original scientific research going on in Thailand. What I see, is ancilliary and spinoff work from universities in the EU, Japan and the USA. A country without little science hamsters spinning their genius wheels aint going anywhere fast. From what I have seen, basic science and applied science (technology, engineering) education is poor.

the transport system especially in Bangkok can be compared with that of many European countries You mean for the gridlock? No argument though on the subway. It's great. The Japanese did a great job with that aid project.

and Thais as a whole appear to have a reasonable standard of living.

Reasonable is relative. Compared to Ethiopia, for sure, Thailand living standards are in the heavens, but compared to real developed nations like the Netherlands, Denmark, Canada etc. it's in the basement. There is a growing risk of malnutrition in certain regions for which there is no excuse in a country as wealthy as Thailand.

So should Thailand now be given first world status?

Maybe when it gets past the developing stage, but we'll all be dead by then.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

According to Wikipedia south east asia is 3rd world.

I'm inclined to agree both the education system and the attitude of the people in LOS have to change greatly to become 1st world.

But then I probably would not be here if it was 1st world. I like it the way it is.

[Payboy]

There seems to be low unemployment...

and i thought that watching rice grow was exclusively a retired man's hobby....

Edited July 29, 2008 by Payboy

[PeaceBlondie]

Economically, since the end of the Cold War, the accurate measurement is developed, developing, undeveloped. In practice, lots of horrendously undeveloped countries are loosely grouped into the developing category. You need sophisticated measures to see which countries are really developing. Compared to where Thailand was 60 years ago, it has progressed, but not half as much as Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, etc. China is quickly passing China by, and its alphabet is more impossible, its poverty more severe, its manufacturing base more antiquated, its economy still hampered by senseless central planning, etc.

I lived briefly in Nicaragua, a true basket case that flirted with socialism and then reverted to greedy, corrupt capitalism, where the poverty stares you in the face daily. The trick is that you do not see that poverty as obviously in Thailand. But there is no advancement without education and trust me - for 95 percent of Thai people, real education is nonexistent. Doomed.

[pluto_manibo]

First world countries(not including the USA) usually have, good road infrastructures, moderately good education system, some resemblance of a fair health care system, public transportation..museums, libraries, arts centers, historical archives etc...

When going to Singapore, you feel the difference....Singaporeans when they ask you, "where do you live?" and you say "Thailand!"...they think it is dangerous and a jungle out here....unorganised, hectic and backwards. I think they would be the global reference of a first world country....but first world doesn't equal perfect!

I would say Thailand is an emerging nation and over the years, I have seen a lot of improvements which have also brought on some unwanted elements to the equation.....In conclusion despite the political and economical situation, I think Thailand has a fair chance. Some people might say that tourism is falling etc......But did you ever think the powers at hand ever cared for the jaded European/Australian/Farang vacationers....They have a whole new market of Chinese, ex-USSR, Middle easterners who have never been out of there country and have money to burn and nothing to moan about...For them it is all new and they have nothing to compare it to!

I think with some fine tuning in various areas, Thailand has a fair chance in the modern world.....if only they wouldn't follow the western worlds examples which is already showing its' cracks and weakneses.

[grantbkk]

The ONLY way out for Thailand to become a First World Status country is:

education - education and education.

Without proper and higher education.....it will take more than a few decades (which I mentioned earlier) for Thailand to reach such status.

Countries/states like South Korea, Japan (which lost WWII.....), Singapore, Hong Kong and even nowadays India (IT industry) and China are examples of countries who understood that education is the tool to the future.

LaoPo

Thailand for the most part performs as a feudal society. The rich get richer and the surfs (country people) are led around by the nose by the upper class. Lack of education and independent thought contribute to a continuous cycle followers for those, through family wealth for generations, here who are destined to lead because of family money. Little has changed for centuries. My opinion leans toward continual third world status for Thailand.

This system contributes to the lower costs for tourists and expats. Good for us and generally bad for them. If Thailand was operated similar to Singapore for example would we still be here? With their higher standard of living, skyrocketing costs and rules of law, could most of us even have the means to consider living under those conditions?

[hlfourie]

Thailand is a third world country and that is why I am here, in decades to come when it reaches first world status and I have to pay first world prices I will go back home.

[Payboy]

education - education and education.

an educated population would demand good governance, accountability, social responsibilty, better wages leading to better standard of living....

but then who would toil in fields and factories feeding the hunger of the elite, volunteer for army jobs to get blown up in the south, etc. etc..

sorry, no can do......

Edited July 29, 2008 by Payboy

[Doza]

Someone said it already - Thailand is now classified as a Middle Income Country and multi-lateral donors are not funding much in Thailand anymore...

"As a middle-income country with strong growth, Thailand is determined to "leap frog" in development status...

This ongoing transformation of development status has two major characteristics. The first is Thailand's focus on becoming a development partner with former donor-countries, as opposed to a recipient of international aid....

The second is Thailand's desire to become a donor country itself, assisting in the development of poorer countries, both within and outside the immediate region through its "Forward Engagement" foreign policy...."

UN Thailand

[Andrew Hicks]

Until the education system teaches individualality and the freedom to think laterally Thailand will never be first world. It takes alot more than a mobile phone to make the grade.

Thailand has a wealth of potential but with the current system of government nothing changes.

I agree with you.

Yes, the cities are glossy enough, all built on an economy that relies on keeping wages low.

But try living in the countryside and then you'll see that a huge proportion of the population is bumping along the bottom. A lot of progress has been made but the sharing of wealth has not been equitable.

Was First World/Third World a UN designation of some sort?

In any event for a country to be fully developed it has to have a good education system with freedom of expression and thought and in which democracy and the rule of law flourish. That sounds pompous but a country ruled by power elites, where corruption abounds and where the bureacrats (eg handing out visas) make the rules up as they go along is truly underdeveloped.

No, a mobile phone is not enough to place a country at the first rank in the world.

[Mosha]

Disputes settled by gun law, it's more like the wild west. Police ignore the laws they are supposed to uphold. Oh aye definitely 1st world. Not.

[wasabi]

I think Thailand is still third world though that's not to say they haven't made some progress. The quote before about the mud puddle with a few gold bricks seems accurate to me. I think it's third world for the following reasons

Unclean water

Unclean air

Unreliable internet

lack of education

lack of employment opportunity

corrupt government and corruption at all levels

While Thailand is relatively safe I would say many important laws are simply ignored. I find it amusing when I see those signs Green Bangkok with the clear blue photoshopped skyline. Just saying or wishing for it doesn't make it so. You can put a law on the books but if no one follows it there are consequences that you can't just sweep under the rug. This sort of reminds me of China trying to stop all traffic to showcase their unpolluted city. Yea right you can't have unregulated factories cranking all day then suddenly blow a fan and make it go away. Thailand is the same and Bangkok the crown jewel of Thailand is a filthy polluted unhealthy place to live. The average lifespan is probably a good 15 years lower than the west. That's not to say it's not without it's charms but if you want to compare the progress, quality of life, availability of government services and ability to trust it's institutions Thailand hasn't really changed much in 20 years. Yes there are Siam Paragons and cell phones but the ability to get a top education and high paying job do not exist. With an uneducated and unmotivated population how is Thailand going to go anywhere?

[Doza]

Oh, and how poor are the really poor? I know villages in Isaan where the official income figures are THB 25,000 / person (adult) / year on average. Yes there is some subsistance farming but that is also not free and with the price of oil going up and inflation etc - this is the poverty line.

[wintermute]

I think Thailand is still third world though that's not to say they haven't made some progress. The quote before about the mud puddle with a few gold bricks seems accurate to me. I think it's third world for the following reasons

Unclean water

Unclean air

Unreliable internet

lack of education

lack of employment opportunity

corrupt government and corruption at all levels

Not sure where you live but in Bangkok these aren't serious problems. I can find the same issues to maybe even a larger degree with crime as an addition in a few major U.S. cities.

[Acomes2Siam]

Take away the S*x tourist trade and it would probably be the same as 20 years ago - aside from the high end Russian and Chinese tourists of course

They would go too if you took away the s*x tourist trade.

[TheDon]

I dont know how people can still think its a 3rd world country. If you think it is, then there is just no hope for you

[pampal]

It is what it is, try to enjoy it while you can