Cocker Spaniel Puppy

[Morbo]

hi all,

first post so be gentle please.

as the topic title says i need advise on the care of a cocker spaniel puppy.

when i was growing up we always had a dog in the house so i am ok on the general stuff.

last night "tirac" arrived home with the aforementioned puppy.

at a rough guess he is probably 4 weeks old,5 at most.

my thinking is he is way too young to be taken from his mother,but i want to do my very best to take care and look after our new family member.

hence not telling her to take him straight back,as god knows where he would have ended up.

specificly,are the breed prone to any ailments and other stuff?

they are an active dog and need a lot of exercise....yes?

vaccinations around 12 weeks or can this be done sooner?

all advise and comments appreciated.

will try to post a pic as soon as

cheers

[bina]

parvo vaccine NOW!!!

puppy food, good quality, three to four times daily

cockers are prone to ear infections due to heavy ear flaps --icky smell means icky ears

fresh water all day

training since most of the cockers i've know are psycho cases (non predictable personality disorders)... flame me but that's the breed....

depending on the coat, a good brushing once a week, daily light brushing, periodic professional grooming unless u know how to do it (if he has a thick coat and feathering around the legs and ears)...

fun games (balls toys); a place to call his own since he is so young; he needs a small box/crate closed off area for being in when u are not around, with his water and a few toys, no food. food u giv ate regular times, then pee/poo time, then play time, then back to crate/box if u arent around. if u are around then he can be out also. most very small pups like this routine.

bina

[Morbo]

parvo vaccine NOW!!!

puppy food, good quality, three to four times daily

cockers are prone to ear infections due to heavy ear flaps --icky smell means icky ears

fresh water all day

training since most of the cockers i've know are psycho cases (non predictable personality disorders)... flame me but that's the breed....

depending on the coat, a good brushing once a week, daily light brushing, periodic professional grooming unless u know how to do it (if he has a thick coat and feathering around the legs and ears)...

fun games (balls toys); a place to call his own since he is so young; he needs a small box/crate closed off area for being in when u are not around, with his water and a few toys, no food. food u giv ate regular times, then pee/poo time, then play time, then back to crate/box if u arent around. if u are around then he can be out also. most very small pups like this routine.

bina

thanks for the tip about the ears bina.

off for the parvo jab today.

interesting times ahead if you are right about them being psycho's

cheers

[bob4you]

My vet says cannot give Parvo shot until 12 weeks, is this a falacy? Anyone doing it at 6 weeks?

[ozsamurai]

If your going to let him play outdoors then a good trim in between their toes is also recommended, as grass seeds etc. can get lodged in the paw and the ears for that matter causing a nasty infection and a deal of pain.

Oz

[bina]

we do it at 6 weeks, i think it depends on what type or brand of vaccine u get in your country... there is a parvo only vaccine and a multi vaccine that has the main other diseases plus some extras depending, again, on country...

rabies is at over 3 months of age, not before...

[Morbo]

we do it at 6 weeks, i think it depends on what type or brand of vaccine u get in your country... there is a parvo only vaccine and a multi vaccine that has the main other diseases plus some extras depending, again, on country...

rabies is at over 3 months of age, not before...

he has been vaccinated with "canigen DHA2PPiL" (distemper,hepattitis,parvo,parainfluenza,leptospirosis) is this a once only shot or 2/3?

the reason i ask is that his next shot is on the card for 15 days later but it looks like the next one is canigen DHA2PPiLR which includes all of the above PLUS rabies.

maybe i'm being stupid and reading the card wrongly.

any thoughts bina?

ozsamurai thanks for the tips but we have'nt let him out in the garden yet.

probably wait until after the next visit to the vet.

heres two pics of the cocker in question.

[Nienke]

Sorry Bina, but I'm really shocked by your advice, telling to give vaccination (Parvo) at such a young age. Plus, that the pup just arrived at a new place which invariably involves stress and maybe change of diet (???).

Now this poor pup has received a cocktail vaccination at an early age of maybe not more than 5 weeks!!!! This not only increases the chances on side-effects enormously as the pup's immune syteme is way not developed enough, there is also the big chance that the maturnal immunity that the pup has from the mother dog and the vaccines will neutralized eachother.

I very strongly advice against vaccinating this pup again after 2 weeks. And definitely NO Rabies before 4 months of age (sorry, but is the vet who treats this poor pup absolutely nuts?).

I have the living proof currently at my boarding center. Two husky pups that BOTH developed Parvo FROM the vaccinations! Also these pups received their first vaccination ('only') Pneumodog at a very young age, then at six weeks DP, two weeks later a 4-in-1 and again two weeks later the second 4-in-1 (not including rabies). One pup is doing ok now, although his feces are on and off hard and soft (still not a good sign) and the other has been hospitalized for approx. 6 days, received blood transfusion, anabolic steroids, loads of AB's, 24/7 IV, as the virus was so violent it almost killed the pup. Now, according to the vet the virus is killed, but the pup still has a major problem with digestion as there has been done an enormous damage to the intestinal wall, and she has problem with her blood (problem with RBC's).

Last year I had a similar problem with pups that developed canine distemper, due to over vaccination and vaccinating at too young of age. One died, one got also very ill but survived and one showed some symptoms but luckily pulled through very easily.

Not even to mention that just vaccinated animals WILL SHED THE VIRUS for approx. 2 weeks! Something I also leanred not too long ago.

Giving vaccinations should be done with great care, NOT in cocktails, starting at around 7 weeks of age, preferable 4 weeks to 1 month apart and when the animal doesn't show any sign of illness, such as cough, skin ailments, or even when in a stressful sistuation (like changing owners/house).

In the meantime it is case to avoid OVER-EXPOSURE. You can take the pup out, but most of the time on the arm and only to be put on the ground there where there aren't dogs you don't know the history of. This is difficult in Thailand, thus only left roaming around in your own garden or in a friend's garden of which you are sure they have a healthy dog that hasn't been vaccinated recently.

And last but definitely not least it is very important to provide the pup with a high quality diet, as I totally agree with Bina .

Nienke

[Morbo]

Sorry Bina, but I'm really shocked by your advice, telling to give vaccination (Parvo) at such a young age. Plus, that the pup just arrived at a new place which invariably involves stress and maybe change of diet (???).

Now this poor pup has received a cocktail vaccination at an early age of maybe not more than 5 weeks!!!! This not only increases the chances on side-effects enormously as the pup's immune syteme is way not developed enough, there is also the big chance that the maturnal immunity that the pup has from the mother dog and the vaccines will neutralized eachother.

I very strongly advice against vaccinating this pup again after 2 weeks. And definitely NO Rabies before 4 months of age (sorry, but is the vet who treats this poor pup absolutely nuts?).

I have the living proof currently at my boarding center. Two husky pups that BOTH developed Parvo FROM the vaccinations! Also these pups received their first vaccination ('only') Pneumodog at a very young age, then at six weeks DP, two weeks later a 4-in-1 and again two weeks later the second 4-in-1 (not including rabies). One pup is doing ok now, although his feces are on and off hard and soft (still not a good sign) and the other has been hospitalized for approx. 6 days, received blood transfusion, anabolic steroids, loads of AB's, 24/7 IV, as the virus was so violent it almost killed the pup. Now, according to the vet the virus is killed, but the pup still has a major problem with digestion as there has been done an enormous damage to the intestinal wall, and she has problem with her blood (problem with RBC's).

Last year I had a similar problem with pups that developed canine distemper, due to over vaccination and vaccinating at too young of age. One died, one got also very ill but survived and one showed some symptoms but luckily pulled through very easily.

Not even to mention that just vaccinated animals WILL SHED THE VIRUS for approx. 2 weeks! Something I also leanred not too long ago.

Giving vaccinations should be done with great care, NOT in cocktails, starting at around 7 weeks of age, preferable 4 weeks to 1 month apart and when the animal doesn't show any sign of illness, such as cough, skin ailments, or even when in a stressful sistuation (like changing owners/house).

In the meantime it is case to avoid OVER-EXPOSURE. You can take the pup out, but most of the time on the arm and only to be put on the ground there where there aren't dogs you don't know the history of. This is difficult in Thailand, thus only left roaming around in your own garden or in a friend's garden of which you are sure they have a healthy dog that hasn't been vaccinated recently.

And last but definitely not least it is very important to provide the pup with a high quality diet, as I totally agree with Bina .

Nienke

thanks Nienke,

i must admit to having doubts about taking him back in such a short space of time,him being so young.

going to canvass as many vets as i can find locally later this evening and see what the concenuss(??) is.

probably end up even more confused

[Nienke]

Hi Morbo, I see you're on Samui. You can pm/contact/visit Elfe and dogfather, both TV members and very knowledgeable on dogs.

Elfe has a dog rescue sanctuary and years of experience with dogs and cats. And Dogfather has a dog training school on Samui. In the classifieds pet section you can find his ad and contact details, or just look at his profile.

Nienke

[Morbo]

Hi Morbo, I see you're on Samui. You can pm/contact/visit Elfe and dogfather, both TV members and very knowledgeable on dogs.

Elfe has a dog rescue sanctuary and years of experience with dogs and cats. And Dogfather has a dog training school on Samui. In the classifieds pet section you can find his ad and contact details, or just look at his profile.

Nienke

thanks for the advise,will take it.

the vaccination was done by the vet at the dog rescue centre in chaweng here on samui.

now you are making me think that ......no,wont say(type)it

[Nienke]

Elfe has her own sancturay. She is not connected to the Samui dog rescue organisation to my knowledge.

Nienke

[dingdongrb]

Having raised a few cockers in my years I totally agree about the ear infections. Since cocker spaniels have the long drooping ears there does not seem to be enough ventilation for the ear canal thus causing infections and odors. I highly suggest start at a very young age of cleaning the ear canals out with Q-tips so that the dog will not fight against it when he/she gets older. Just clean out the ear canal like you would a baby without going too deep to cause any damage. Also you might pick up a bottle of ear drops at a local vet that would help with the odor that does occur.

[bina]

nienke, i agree the 15 day interval is too short, we go for three/four week intervals and rabies is the last of the three in the series, only after 3 months (or more on the toy varieties...)...and its a cocktail, since people here wont come in for vetting and prefer all -in-one one stop shop type vetting including worming, chipping, flea/tick stuff, vaccines all at once. they dont want to pay for visit fees more then they have to and even three times is pushing it for most...

again, countries differ; here if they pick up your dog, who must be chipped by second or third vaccine in series, he must be vaccinated by three months or he goes to the county doggy jail with bad results, here we dont have a good return on picked up dogs unfortunately, not in the least cause the national chip data base is so unorganized. so, its at three months. final. and yes all vets here give the parvo early we have tons of parvo here like thailand there is low compliance on vetting dogs for anything here as we are still 3rd world in some areas and respects...

i knowu are strongly anti vaccine except for super healthy adult dogs, but have not, as yet, run in to problems with dogs. the opposite, a large group of dogs so far have come in with parvo and two with distemper due to the fact the folks here just do rabies and dont want to pay for any other vaccines... therefore the diseases are rampant... unfortunately.

a majority of breeders here also do the parvo only at a young age. we even sent a large batch to a breeder in ramallah since they couldnt get any... it was a big production to do it given the political problems of borders and such...

to all animal owners, given the large variety of treatment/vaccine schedules, the best advice is, of course, to choose the vet with whom u feel comfortable with... just like dealing with your child's doctors... there is always controversial advice or different then what u were given and it does cause confusion. so, i think nienke and her recommendations are sound, however, i still go with the vaccination schedule we use (most vets here use, american,and french and israeli and dutch trained )...

an other theory that i dont hold to though is the 'aquarium puppy', that is,there are so many people here that dont take their dogs anywhere (keep them in an aquarium means no outside contact until second shots, no socialization, etc) cause they afraid of all these diseases. i think that slow exposure is better then no exposure as like with children that never went out and suddenly go to school. they get ill more often. so moderation in all things i think is a good route. also causes behavioral problems since not socialized well...

take in to account of course the breeds of dogs; some are more susceptible than others to parvo. some have all sorts of immune problems. shar peis come to mind here.

bet u thought raising a dog is simple compared to a child huh :)

oh, nad dont lose your vaccine books, keep them with yours.

bina

israel

[Nienke]

Hi Bina,

We agree in great lines. I also agree with you that countries differ. Sure, in certain countries/climatic regions certain infectious disease are more prevalent than in others. However, that does not include that the way an immune system works differ per country, (climatic) region, or whatever.

I do not agree on your follow quote:

i knowu are strongly anti vaccine except for super healthy adult dogs, ...

If you would have read my post well:

Giving vaccinations should be done with great care, NOT in cocktails, starting at around 7 weeks of age, preferable 4 weeks to 1 month apart and when the animal doesn't show any sign of illness, such as cough, skin ailments, or even when in a stressful sistuation (like changing owners/house).

and the thread on Little Diva: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Diva-t205632.html

I don’t say ‘don’t vaccinate’, but I do say ‘be very careful with these vaccines’. Don’t start too early, have a considerable amount of time in between the jabs (about 4 weeks than the 2 weeks which is the norm here) and personally I prefer single vaccines and don’t like the combination ones.

you could have known better.

Also, on what do you base the following quote? Or is it an assumption?

.. but have not, as yet, run in to problems with dogs...

the opposite, a large group of dogs so far have come in with parvo and two with distemper due to the fact the folks here just do rabies and dont want to pay for any other vaccines... therefore the diseases are rampant... unfortunately.

Maybe these animals are also more susceptable because (that's what I have understood from your posts) they are not willing to provide a good nutritious diet to their animals? And under what circumstances are the breeding stock and their pups held? Is it possible that if many would pay more attention to hygiene many parvo outbreaks could be prevented?

I understand why vets in Israel give cocktail given te circumstances, but that doesn't mean it's without increased danger on side-effects to the dog, or cat. And don't you think it's the duty of a vet to inform pet owners on these dangers BEFORE giving the vaccinations? It's then upto the owner what to decide.

That the vets follow that vaccination schedule, also the ones trained in foreign countries including my home country, doesn't say much to me. Most vet schools, hospitals and clinics are heavily sponsored by big pharma and the pet food industry. And vaccines are a major form of income, as are the treatments due to side-effects caused by the vaccines.

What does say a lot to me is the research done and still is going on on the duration of antibodies circulation in a dog's body after a vaccine is given. In France they have found that most vaccines given to dogs provide immunity (if I can put it this way, that is) upto 5 to 7 years, meaning that in the meantime the animal does not need a booster vaccine.

I'm also more inclined to listen to what the two top veterinary immunologists are saying, based on solid research: Dr. Jean Dodds and Dr. Richard Shultz. Both have been involved in many studies concerning dog and cat vaccines and are now involved in a new research about Rabies and its vaccine (Rabies Challenge Fund).

On the net there is an awfull lot on the vaccine subject with people absolute pro and others absolute con. I'm still somewhere in between. All my dogs received their puppy vaccines. One didn't receive his first annual booster yet as he is only 1 year old, the second one is about 3 1/2 yrs old and has received each year jabs (he only came to me last year) and one didn't receive any booster becasue he got (what I still believe is) an auto-immune disease around his puberties. He's almost 7 now. He has been in contact with both parvo and canine distemper pups without getting really sick, he only got very light symptoms. It seems that the memory cells of his immune system (which are very possible formed after receiving his puppy vax's) recognized this virus and immediately reacted with making antibodies.

I'm following their vaccine protocol and that what Dr. Jean Dodds answered me directly to a question I asked on an email list in which I told her I'm living in Thailand and about the circumstances here, that is an increased risk on infection.

Nienke

[bina]

8 months of vaccinating dogs every day, no bad reactions (or reportable ones anyway); and if we did spaced out jabs, no one would ever come in for vaccines; most dogs are being fed shopping center dog foods and/or science diet/pro plan.. those seem to be favorites here; and yes, except for a smal number of dedicated dog people, the majority are back yard breeders for the doggy flavour of the month breed... now shar peis pugs and shitzus are in, asian shepherds are now out... well, u get the picture.. and the parvo isnt among litters or kennels. its among neighborhoods of dogs and people.

tick fever (echeli...) has become very very prevalent we seem to get a case a week in this area; and we also found that this past few batches of frontline have been of low effieciency .. had many customer complaints about ticks on dogs that we frontlined properly (no bathing two days previous, etc)... or else the ticks here are become immune to frontline ...

we have huge nmbers of maggoty dogs in this area (and its being studied by one of my vets who is publishing a paper on maggots and dogs, fascinating huh??) but have not had one incident of vaccine caused illness. the opposite. have had, like i've said, several cases of parvo and two of distemper just in our clinic. not sure what goes on in the seven clinics near my house (an hour from the clinic i work at), i suspect the same, although compliance may be higher due to better socioeconomics in the area.

just a very sadly humourous side note: a brazilian trained equine vet just brought in a blood sample from her own 3 months old pup, as of yet, not vaccinated. he runs with her chickens, is an outdoor dog. had a fever of 41!!; i ran the blood and was shocked that the dog is still alive w. hemoglobin of 5!. anemia extreme. he needs a transfusion. i asked her if she had wormed the dog or used a tick preventative on him. she said no. she just took some doxicillin for him and that was that. now the dog lives with chickens so must be full of mites and fleas, he had ticks she said... talk about the shoemaker's children going barefoot!!!! could be tick fever, could be just that as a pup is getting his blood sucked by parasites... go figure... i wonder what brazilian vet schools are like........

and no vaccines at all as she hadnt gotten around to it yet....

so i maintain my postition of : find a vet u feel comfortable with, and go with them and their regime. u dont like it? switch to one u do like. just stick to one way of doing something though so u dont make a hodgepodge of it all...

bina