Thailand's Teen Castration Ban Splits Doctors, Gay Campaigners

[JimsKnight]

Trouble is, it might force the whole industry (castration by doctor for under 18s) underground.

[kedawi]

Pardon my ignorance, but are we just talking about castration -- and leaving the rest of the "package" in place?

If so, isn't the object, then, to reduce testosterone, resulting in female hormones becoming dominant, with the inherent bodily changes these folks desire?

Why, then, don't they just take hormone pills, avoiding the mutilation of castration?

Of course if this is the first step towards a sex change operation, then it makes sense (I guess). But it sounds like removing dingleberries is an end step, not an intermediary one........

What am I missing here?

I pointed out earlier that one of the main reasonsd for e\arly castration is to anticipate the physical changes in the voice box - vioce breaking....the person will themn have amore womanly voice forthe rest of his/her life.

[PeaceBlondie]

Most males' voice changes at the onset of puberty. Hardly any of my 12 or 13 Thai students had a girl's voice. Age 15 is too late to affect the voice. My voice broke in 6th grade and I was not precocious.

[Ijustwannateach]

I bet you *were* precocious, PB!

It's wise to have the regulation in place. IMHO, no one should be allowed to simply order this type of surgery on demand anyway, and doctors who provide it without requiring extensive psychological counselling and careful advising of the patient over at least a couple of years are breaking their professional vows. If the teens thought they might want this to be done at age 18, they should be getting themselves into counselling by 16 at least.

"S"

[kedawi]

Most males' voice changes at the onset of puberty. Hardly any of my 12 or 13 Thai students had a girl's voice. Age 15 is too late to affect the voice. My voice broke in 6th grade and I was not precocious.

I think you need to look into whos getting castrated and listen to their voices before you make a pronoucement like that.......they are 16 and younger....and the onset of puberty in the west is known to be later than in developing countries and even earler in rurasl areas or undeveloped countries. A castrato does not necesarily have ther same voice as a woman but it fails to take a deep pitch as normal.

[cophen]

Castrati didn't have women's voices - they had boy's voices with a range of 3 to 4 octaves with the power of a man's voicebox.

[PeaceBlondie]

Most males' voice changes at the onset of puberty. Hardly any of my 12 or 13 Thai students had a girl's voice. Age 15 is too late to affect the voice. My voice broke in 6th grade and I was not precocious.

I think you need to look into whos getting castrated and listen to their voices before you make a pronoucement like that.......they are 16 and younger....and the onset of puberty in the west is known to be later than in developing countries and even earler in rurasl areas or undeveloped countries. A castrato does not necesarily have ther same voice as a woman but it fails to take a deep pitch as normal.

Are we both writing in standard English? If non-precocious Western males had their change of voice around age 11, and it is earlier in developing countries, then the only 12 year old students I had in Thailand, with high male voices, were false sopranos, in falsetto. We can all speak like that. I used to throw my voice up by a couple of octaves to imitate the girls, and the Thais knew it was not my normal voice. I do not see any connection with even a 14 year old Thai boy electing early surgery to affect his voice box. I think of the big twin boy, age 13, with a deep voice, who was gay.

Not to change the subject, but I have never been able to distinguish a Thai gay teenager from a katoey-wannabe.

[kedawi]

Most males' voice changes at the onset of puberty. Hardly any of my 12 or 13 Thai students had a girl's voice. Age 15 is too late to affect the voice. My voice broke in 6th grade and I was not precocious.

I think you need to look into whos getting castrated and listen to their voices before you make a pronoucement like that.......they are 16 and younger....and the onset of puberty in the west is known to be later than in developing countries and even earler in rurasl areas or undeveloped countries. A castrato does not necesarily have ther same voice as a woman but it fails to take a deep pitch as normal.

Are we both writing in standard English? If non-precocious Western males had their change of voice around age 11, and it is earlier in developing countries, then the only 12 year old students I had in Thailand, with high male voices, were false sopranos, in falsetto. We can all speak like that. I used to throw my voice up by a couple of octaves to imitate the girls, and the Thais knew it was not my normal voice. I do not see any connection with even a 14 year old Thai boy electing early surgery to affect his voice box. I think of the big twin boy, age 13, with a deep voice, who was gay.

Not to change the subject, but I have never been able to distinguish a Thai gay teenager from a katoey-wannabe.

I'm sorry do you wish to get pedantic about mty language use?....i use English as UI see fit (there will of course be the usual proofing and typos) but I don't see any call to use "standard" English (as defined by you?) on this site. perhps you'd care to explain that comment. which i also find surprising as it comes form someone who professes to be a teacher (what subjects) - I explains the (pedantry) - and "supermoderator"........................ (why "super"?)...well whatever that is you should at least try and live up to it and not talk such nonsense.

You really must try and find out who these people are and WHY they want this op...its not as simple as your teacher's perspective would attempt to make out......

If you are a moderator what are you doing getting involved in discussions anyway....i would have thought that was a conflict of interest.

Good luck with the teaching Thaialnd needs some teachers ut even they have to be repaed to learn once in a while....where do you teach? North East or Bangkok???

Edited August 12, 2008 by kedawi