60 Rai 2million

[Zeid]

60rai 50km soth of nongbua for 2million

yes or no?

[GungaDin]

This should be interesting.

[Maizefarmer]

Interesting, yes certainly - but worth it (?) impossible to say - depends on a number of factors:

1) what titleship comes with the land (e.g. is it CHANOTE)?

2) is it registered as a single plot of land?

3) does it have/or could you get planning permission to develope (of course depending on what you wanted to do with it)?

4) does is flood out/swamp up in the rainy season (important if you have agriculture in mind)?

5) what is the value of surrounding land?

6) where is it - i.e. rural in in/near to developed/residential or commercial land?

............. all the above play a role in determining its value.

From a pure investment point of view? - my opinion: no, not at the moment - the Thai Baht as we speak is very strong - too strong in my humble opinion to justify using foreign exchange (i.e. Euro/U$D/Sterling etc etc ... assuming you would be bringing the capital in from overseas to complete the purchase ) for such a large/high value land purchases. It wouldn't suprize me if we saw another devaluation sometime over 2009 or early 2010 - last time that happened we saw the Baht nearly halve in value against Western currencies in less than a year. You'll be sick as hel_l if you purchase now and that happens sometime over the next 24 months.

And what if it doesn't happen? - I forsee a slow weakening over the same period time.

Note - I am expressing a personal opinion. I could be completely wrong, but its something I think you'd be well advised to take some professional advise on.

[Zeid]

Maize i could not agree more, regarding the Baht relation with the USD and that is why i am a bit hesitant.

1. title will be transfered and owed by the mrs, as i can not buy

2. it is one land on plot

3. not sure about the development side

4. no flooding, far from the dam, but has one or two waterwells

5. all rice land, some started planting euco

6. rural area

idea for having it is plant some euco, make chicken house, some fish lakes, and leave a good part of it for rice, and veggies.

5-10 driving minutes far from my home,

and i bet there will be tons of other opinions coming in.

interesting comments and ideas for the land as well as for the economic side

Interesting, yes certainly - but worth it (?) impossible to say - depends on a number of factors:

1) what titleship comes with the land (e.g. is it CHANOTE)?

2) is it registered as a single plot of land?

3) does it have/or could you get planning permission to develope (of course depending on what you wanted to do with it)?

4) does is flood out/swamp up in the rainy season (important if you have agriculture in mind)?

5) what is the value of surrounding land?

6) where is it - i.e. rural in in/near to developed/residential or commercial land?

............. all the above play a role in determining its value.

From a pure investment point of view? - my opinion: no, not at the moment - the Thai Baht as we speak is very strong - too strong in my humble opinion to justify using foreign exchange (i.e. Euro/U$D/Sterling etc etc ... assuming you would be bringing the capital in from overseas to complete the purchase ) for such a large/high value land purchases. It wouldn't suprize me if we saw another devaluation sometime over 2009 or early 2010 - last time that happened we saw the Baht nearly halve in value against Western currencies in less than a year. You'll be sick as hel_l if you purchase now and that happens sometime over the next 24 months.

And what if it doesn't happen? - I forsee a slow weakening over the same period time.

Note - I am expressing a personal opinion. I could be completely wrong, but its something I think you'd be well advised to take some professional advise on.

[Boo]

what is the title though, is it chanote?

[Zeid]

CHANOTE

what is the title though, is it chanote?

[jopham]

"idea for having it is plant some euco, make chicken house, some fish lakes, and leave a good part of it for rice, and veggies.

5-10 driving minutes far from my home"

Is there someone going to live at plot of land if not, you will have no chickens or fish left IMHO

[Pierrot]

60rai 50km soth of nongbua for 2million

yes or no?

I bought 50 rais 3 years ago (not for the profit, but earning around 80% / year), you're not asking the right questions !

[rgs2001uk]

60rai 50km soth of nongbua for 2million

yes or no?

I bought 50 rais 3 years ago (not for the profit, but earning around 80% / year), you're not asking the right questions !

i will guarntee the seller has asked themself the very same questions you refer to, thats why its for sale at the price quoted. whats the return on the investment?

if you want a bit of peace and quiet in a secluded area, then its a good deal, if you are trying to make a living from it, well thats a different ball game altogether.

why is the seller selling?

how long has it been on the market?

what are others in the area doing with their land?

please dont tell me its one of those special deals because you are a friend.

sorry to sound so cynical, but there are a lot of thai people with money out there, the reason they have money is because they are not stupid with it. if this was such a good deal a thai would have snapped it up long ago.

the land is either overpriced or is unsustainable.

[Maizefarmer]

It's rice land, is it - well, keeping in mind what you have indicated you would want to do with it, notwithstanding the source of the funds to purchase the land (i.e. foreign exchange or TB) I personally wouldn't give it anymore thought. In other words - my opinion: no - you can get rice land that will serve your intended purposes significantly cheaper than that.

And while I don't agree entriely with all rgs 2001uk has said above, his comments regarding due dilligence are worth noting (i.e. if it was such a god deal why hasn't it being snapped by Thai's). In other words: take a real close look at the circumstances - who's selling - whys it being sold etc etc ......

[Mosha]

If your money is coming form abroad, I hope it isn't the UK. The pound is acting like a brick just now

[Gary A]

No one has asked the big question. Can you afford to lose two million baht? Not that you will but there is always that possibility. A farang spending money on land in Thailand is always a risky proposition at best.

[Pierrot]

sorry to sound so cynical, but there are a lot of thai people with money out there, the reason they have money is because they are not stupid with it.

Not always. Being a successful doctor doesn't give you any advantage when it comes to buying a land, one of our neighbour is here to prove it. An other neighbour is a hardware store owner, and honnestly I wouldn't buy the land he bought for half the price he paid. And both are Thais.

The main point is, why you want to buy this land?

To leave there, for family reasons or just because you like the place? Then rent a room in the area, come back in September, December, March, make friend with the neighbours, gather as much information as you can, then make a decision. One personnal advise : visit the land, walk around. It may sound absurd, but a lot of bad decision are based on "average price in the area". All lands are differents, Thais usually never step out of their car, which may explain some very bad investments.

For business purpose? Honnestly, if you have no experience, just forget it.

[Loom]

I'd look at it purely from the perspective of return. If you plan to rent it out, what will the rental yield be? If you farm it yourself, what do you expect return on investment to be? Then compare these returns to alternatives.

[Pierrot]

I'd look at it purely from the perspective of return. If you plan to rent it out, what will the rental yield be? If you farm it yourself, what do you expect return on investment to be? Then compare these returns to alternatives.

IMHO, to buy a condo in Bangkok would be more profitable and less risky. Dealing with local authorities and neighbours in rural Thailand isn't easy if you have no experience and no support.

[pnustedt]

Sounds OK to me, a bit more than I would want to pay but I suppose reflects today's farm gate price of rice - room to negotiate? I would go for it if it was 5-10 mins drive from me.

[joeuk1]

From reading your post i feel you and your wife will enjoy going to this land .

If you can afford the 2 million go for it lifes too short . If it will make you happy BUY IT .

jb

[Pierrot]

If you can afford the 2 million go for it lifes too short .

What do you mean by "can afford" ? It makes a big differences if the 2 millions are your life saving or your pocket money for the week. Life doesn't look that short when you're broke.

If we're talking about an investment, there are basic questions to answer : How old are you ? How much money do you earn / have ? What do you expect from your investment ? Can you really afford it ? ... And if you invest in a business, what is your expertise in this field?

[Zeid]

Don't you just love thai visa and the feedback you get, from seriousness and good will to sarcasm and....... anyway.

the reason for buying a land i think or believe maybe due to my eastern mentality, that instead of spending my money, on things that i will not use or will depreciate or loose value, is save it by buying Land regardless where it is, because if not in my life time for my daughter, may be daughters and sons they will have something to fall back on in the future. so it is more of a long term saving thing rather than an investment. (land has a road leading to it.)

to answer you i am 30 well almost 31, how much do i earn, not much, but prefer to put it in land rather than spend it on hmm.. and new land cruiser. for investment, check above.

will i enjoy working it yes.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Zeid

[slapout]

One of the posters above mentioned walking the land. If you are a farmer or have farming background you will see the importance of doing just that. Walk it after a rain and when it is dry, you will pick up the different soil types, drainage etc. If you buy the land and farm it you will be walking it every crop you plant, year after year and you will still be learning after 20 year of walking. good luck

[Pierrot]

to answer you i am 30 well almost 31,

The best age ! If you make a mistake and lose your money, you'll have plenty of time to earn it back.

What is very sad is to see some old folks who invest, and lose, their life saving usually because of the ill informed advises of ... But if you are a regular reader of this forum, you know what i'm talking about.

[joeuk1]

Don't you just love thai visa and the feedback you get, from seriousness and good will to sarcasm and....... anyway.

the reason for buying a land i think or believe maybe due to my eastern mentality, that instead of spending my money, on things that i will not use or will depreciate or loose value, is save it by buying Land regardless where it is, because if not in my life time for my daughter, may be daughters and sons they will have something to fall back on in the future. so it is more of a long term saving thing rather than an investment. (land has a road leading to it.)

to answer you i am 30 well almost 31, how much do i earn, not much, but prefer to put it in land rather than spend it on hmm.. and new land cruiser. for investment, check above.

will i enjoy working it yes.

You have a lot of good reasons in the above post as to why you should buy the land .Again if it will make you and your wife Happy and you can afford it go for it .

JB

Edited August 15, 2008 by joeuk1

[Maizefarmer]

Don't you just love thai visa and the feedback you get, from seriousness and good will to sarcasm and....... anyway.

the reason for buying a land i think or believe maybe due to my eastern mentality, that instead of spending my money, on things that i will not use or will depreciate or loose value, is save it by buying Land regardless where it is, because if not in my life time for my daughter, may be daughters and sons they will have something to fall back on in the future. so it is more of a long term saving thing rather than an investment. (land has a road leading to it.)

to answer you i am 30 well almost 31, how much do i earn, not much, but prefer to put it in land rather than spend it on hmm.. and new land cruiser. for investment, check above.

will i enjoy working it yes.

Yes Zeid - its a sad reality that TV has members that thrive on sarcasim - but the farming section is probably the section that has the least of that kind of reply.

I do think though that your thread opener lacked sufficient info. Without that additional info (I highlighted some of it in my reply) it is imposible to offer an informed comment, and some folk may well have being suprized you didn't realise that from the start.

Land is by and large a good long term investment/saving, but for many ex-pats on the TV forum, it turns out to be the loss of hard earned savings - decisions made with the heart and not the head. The forum is riddeled with stories from guys who set out with honourable intention only to rue later the day they did. So for what you may feel that comment worth, the only thing I'd like to add is this: if it is ultimately for your children then take legal advise from a property lawyer regarding how it can be secured properly for them. "My" land - all 1500rai of it, ultimately also belongs to my children, but as they were both too young at the time for them to be regsitered as landowners, it has being held for them through a Thai company I set up with my wife many years ago. In turn the Thai co. has its shares issued to an off-shore trust - and the beneficiaries of the trust are? - yup, you guessed right: my 2 kids.

Now whether or not that is a viable way forward for you I don;t know (it took us several years and a lot of time to set this up and get it right so that it was 100% legal and irrevocable - trust law in Thailand is still in its infancy), but the point remains: take professional advise and give serious thought to whatever options you have to secure the land for them.

All the best

[farmerjo]

There is the upside to purchasing expensive land that if you have enough of it it will drive the prices up around you which will benefit the locals as well as long as you dont plan to buy anymore.

Not for me i buy regrowth land and develop how i want (larger chanutes lower price) and then pay top baht for small adjoining lots to drive up land values.

Is that how you get to 1500 rai maizefarmer,i am keen to learn

[Maizefarmer]

There is the upside to purchasing expensive land that if you have enough of it it will drive the prices up around you which will benefit the locals as well as long as you dont plan to buy anymore.

Not for me i buy regrowth land and develop how i want (larger chanutes lower price) and then pay top baht for small adjoining lots to drive up land values.

Is that how you get to 1500 rai maizefarmer,i am keen to learn

Correct - a bit here a bit there over the years (nearly 2 decades!) - and I have to say it, although I have only just over the last few years finished paying off the land, were it not for the support (financial) of my father-in-law (lending me money in the early years and coming up as bank garuntee) a large part of it would not have been possible. But yes - it's always been Chanote land, and land that had at least one border long side land that I already had. And its all gone up in value.

But caution: my personal opinion is now is not the time to be using forex to purchase land in Thai Baht.

I have a gut feeling it would be foolish to ignore the possibility we could be heading for another devaluation sometime over the next year or so. Not all the "indicators" are in sight, but over the last 18 months many of them have started to raise there heads above the horizon- and we know what happened last time round: your U$D purchased TB 25 one day, then over night went to something like 37, and over the following 9 months or so soared to around 60. In other words hang fire (for at least the next 24months?) and see what happens - you never know, you may be in for pleasent suprize (so long as the USA or European bank you keep your cash in doesn't go tits up in the meantime!!) - aka Lehman Brothers aka HBOS aka who ever's next?!

[farmerjo]

Good advise,

For me 130-150 rai will see me out.

As long as i can run it by myself with my wife,theres a comfortable living to be made.

(Thus the need for the harvester and tractor in corn on a cob)

[Maizefarmer]

Don't underestimate what you are letting yourself in for - it;s all lifestyle related I guess: if you are happy and comofortable living as [many] rural Thai folk do - then yes, you'll be able to achieve that quite easily from that size of land I would have thought.

If you want to maintain Western convieniances, send the kids to a good school (read as private), earn enough to pay a mortgage, finance a housebuild, buy and pay off a car, go on holidays back to Europe/USA or whereever once a year or every second year (with mom and kids) - and save for retirement, then you are going to have to do some serious hard work and apply some serious business discipline and planning.

The distinction of course must be made: many ex-pats I know (not all) have come to Thailand with sufficent capital to afford much of the above without having to get tied into bank loans, mortgages, monthly car payments, or ahve to worry about school fees, insurance ect ect, blah blah, blah blah.... that's very different to having to work and generate the income in Thailand (to do the above). Some sadly (but again, not all), leave years later with little left - it becomes a never ending pit into which money slowly sank away over the years.

I have always felt: if its not something one has ever wanted to do back home, then one needs to give some serious thought to it (farming) before doing it here. It's contencious point (i.e. motive) and I know many folk don't like that kind of statement. It's my opinion only.

Personaly, nothing would be better than every ex-pat, who started an agriculture based project after settling in Thailand, been able to report back 2, 3, 4, 5 - 10 years down the road that its been hard work, a great experiance and a success.

[farmerjo]

Left aus to get away from a morgaged lifestyle.

Det free here,The missus not from a farming background has trouble understanding in 1st 3 years starting out why i put so much capital into land and equipment and would run at a loss.She said why dont we keep the money in the bank and do nothing,we will save money.Well im afraid a thai lady in charge of a atm card will not leave the money to do nothing.Now a least were generating some income.

And when she asks every day when are we going to be rich,I reply in ten years tiruk.

Farmers all over the world know today that they will be asset rich but cash poor and payday will come from the clearing sale and auction.

Came to thailand to farm as aus basically impossible to start now(need minimum5000 acres).

But feel i one of the lucky cause i work at a gold mine in loei part time and do what i love best the rest of the time (FARMING)

[Issangeorge]

Zeid, if it's rice land and has excess to year long water, chanot title, good road and nearby electric, then in my opinion the price should be about ฿30,000 to ฿40,000 per rai. Or at least that's what I thought last December when I was offered about 14 rai at ฿650,000 (46,428/rai) I thought this was a little high, but told my wife to tell them I was interested, but did not want to pay more than ฿40,000 a rai. My wife got into a bit of an argument with the owner's wife (co-owner) and came back and said she wouldn't go down and she didn't want to buy the land from her anyway. I knew they desperately wanted to sell and figure they would come back to see us, because I didn't think anybody else in the area had the money to buy it. I was willing to pay ฿600,000 (42,857/rai) a little more than I thought the top price should be worth, but it was close to the family's existing land and it was nice land. As it turns out they sold it to a moan fro Taiwan 2 days later for ฿600,000, with the way rice has increased since last December, I am sorry I missed out on it, if only the lady and my wife had got along I probably could of bought it. This land was capable of two crops a year which at ฿10 per kilo for rice after expenses should have netted about ฿92,000 a year or a little over 15%, and that's with the low yield this area gets. I figure with a little improvement in farming practices the yield could be increased 10-25%.

To get back to your question is should you buy 60 rai at ฿2,000,000, well only you can answer that question, but if it has year long water or access, is on a decent road and has a chanot title then at ฿33,333 per rai, I would think the price is fair. If it was close to me I would buy it. I just want to say to Maizefarmer, I agree with you I think the baht is going to drop, but one thing I have learned you can sometimes miss out on some good deals waiting for it to drop. in 2010 how much will this land be worth? The same as with the baht if we could answer those questions the money spent would be irrvelevant anyways. Issangeorge

[daver]

i have forsale 50 rai one plot marked on chanote with the present land registry value of 250baht talangwah x 400=100,000 a rai x 50=5,000,000 baht. the land is used for rice and has a very large lock for water storage an used for growing catfish. as luck would have it has its own rising spring water,ive drained this lock of water many times an every time it fills itself full in a matter of weeks, even in the dry season which allows me to make rice 2 times a year on some of the 50 rai. this farm is in surin just outside side sangkha about 10 mins,on the road to go chon chom border and the casinos. an is right on the main road.im selling this because its to far away from my home im bored to travel. my daughter is of school age and i want to go stay in surin. im asking 4mln for this but as usual can talk.