More Rights For Bikers

[12DrinkMore]

Wonder why there are so many anti-bikers in this forum? Strange. And how many of them are bullying their way around the streets in big SUVs and darkened windows? Some of these guys are really arrogant with the way that they think the space I am in is theirs by right of size. And a lot of the time it is the Farang who are worse than the Thais.

The anti-biker opinion seems to be, "bikers are clueless and we should not allow them on the roads for their own protection". However, in my experience, about 150,000 kms over 10 years on bikes in Thailand, on the highways the small bikes keep on the hard shoulder and stay well out of the wheeled box traffic. And I have very very rarely seen any weaving in and out of the traffic. Unlike the lunatics in wheeled boxes.

In the numerous accidents I have come across, it is generally not the motorcycle rider at fault, they have a very keen sense of self-preservation, it is the wheeled box driver, who overtook and didn't see the bike turning right, or just overtook and didn't see the bike in front of him, etc etc.

So stop patronizing us bikers and drive with more consideration.

And as a last thought, have your full body airbags replaced with a spike.

[Who, me ?]

Wonder why there are so many anti-bikers in this forum? Strange. And how many of them are bullying their way around the streets in big SUVs and darkened windows? Some of these guys are really arrogant with the way that they think the space I am in is theirs by right of size. And a lot of the time it is the Farang who are worse than the Thais.

The anti-biker opinion seems to be, "bikers are clueless and we should not allow them on the roads for their own protection". However, in my experience, about 150,000 kms over 10 years on bikes in Thailand, on the highways the small bikes keep on the hard shoulder and stay well out of the wheeled box traffic. And I have very very rarely seen any weaving in and out of the traffic. Unlike the lunatics in wheeled boxes.

In the numerous accidents I have come across, it is generally not the motorcycle rider at fault, they have a very keen sense of self-preservation, it is the wheeled box driver, who overtook and didn't see the bike turning right, or just overtook and didn't see the bike in front of him, etc etc.

So stop patronizing us bikers and drive with more consideration.

And as a last thought, have your full body airbags replaced with a spike.

You got it ALL wrong !! I am not anti biker (I am myself a biker, or better I used to be...), I don't drive a big SUV with darkened windows. I am convinced that there are responsible bikers who would go along well with all other users on the expressway. But, seing the behaviour of most of the bikers I see on the roads here, I am convinced that opening expressway to them would be a huge mistake. As it is not possible to put an efficient filter at the toll gate, it is much safer to keep things as they are now....

I am not patronizing anyone , and as for your last recommendation, I am too polite to tell you what I think you should do with it !!!

[12DrinkMore]

But, seing the behaviour of most of the bikers I see on the roads here, I am convinced that opening expressway to them would be a huge mistake.

I suppose we need a definition of bikers here.

By far and away the vast majority of people who ride bikes in Thailand are on the Waves, Dreams, Clicks, etc. They potter around going to the market, to work, to school and , you can correct me if you like, but generally riding slowly and very carefully. And they would not even consider going on the Expressways, especially if they had to pay.

Then we have the "big" bikers with 175cc (we'll include the Kwacker Boss) and upward machines. Again the vast majority of these guys ride cautiously and do not behave recklessly. The bikes also allow them to maintain speed with other traffic on the Expressways, so not a problem with causing obstructions.

That leaves us with the boy racers on their two strokers. They should be banned from the roads full stop. But I would argue that it is safer for them on a two lane Expressway with all traffic heading in the same direction, than weaving in and out of the stop/start traffic in the middle of Bangkok. And most of these would not be prepared to pay 30 Baht to go on the Expressway just for a bit of fun.

So, to be honest, I am not sure where you are expecting all these "badly behaving" bikers to come from.

[Who, me ?]

But, seing the behaviour of most of the bikers I see on the roads here, I am convinced that opening expressway to them would be a huge mistake.

I suppose we need a definition of bikers here.

By far and away the vast majority of people who ride bikes in Thailand are on the Waves, Dreams, Clicks, etc. They potter around going to the market, to work, to school and , you can correct me if you like, but generally riding slowly and very carefully. And they would not even consider going on the Expressways, especially if they had to pay.

Then we have the "big" bikers with 175cc (we'll include the Kwacker Boss) and upward machines. Again the vast majority of these guys ride cautiously and do not behave recklessly. The bikes also allow them to maintain speed with other traffic on the Expressways, so not a problem with causing obstructions.

That leaves us with the boy racers on their two strokers. They should be banned from the roads full stop. But I would argue that it is safer for them on a two lane Expressway with all traffic heading in the same direction, than weaving in and out of the stop/start traffic in the middle of Bangkok. And most of these would not be prepared to pay 30 Baht to go on the Expressway just for a bit of fun.

So, to be honest, I am not sure where you are expecting all these "badly behaving" bikers to come from.

Now, that makes sense, and if this description can be kept like this in the real life, I do agree that there will be no reason to ban "real" bikers from expressway. But, as said already, I have been here long enough to know that plans almost never go as expected...

Reason why, in doubt, better be safe than sorry !

[0Mix1up]

.

could make it more expensive for bikes

that'll keep the "general commuter" off them and allow "BIKE RIDERS" on larger bikes

access to easier long distance travel.

still all hypothetical

[percy2]

It seems that other countries are able to enforce what size bike / qualification of rider is allowed to use expressways , why not here.

I would go along with 250cc being the minimum capacity.

I would also go along with having a new license for 250cc +.

Cheers

[12DrinkMore]

Reason why, in doubt, better be safe than sorry !

"better safe than sorry" is an expression used to justify imposing more rules and restrictions on us all. There is always a balance between wrapping us all up in cotton wool from birth or allowing a degree of freedom. In this case I really don't see (additional) carnage taking place on the Expressways, but it would increase our freedom. And maybe the Thais just might rise to the occasion and accept the additional responsibility?

There are too many laws being put into place in the name of protecting us from ourselves, a few less would be very welcome. "no alcohol sales between 14:00 and 17:00" is a prime example and my pet hate, as it causes me inconvenience without, as far as I can see, any conceivable positive benefit for anybody.

If "better safe than sorry" had been applied rigorously then the human race would have died out a long time ago, what female would have subjected herself to pregnancy if she had thought through all the risks involved???? And indeed, what male would have got involved with a female if the prime thought was, "but, what if.....?"

The "spike" would have a considerable impact (sic) on the standard of driving. With the constant danger of instant transportation into the next life with a small error, drivers would be extremely cautious. And the ones that weren't would swiftly depart the roads.... Modern wheeled boxes with sound proofing, air bags and safety belts detach the driver from the world outside his box and give him a sense of invincibility, which bikers don't have. I guess it will be difficult to get this one through parliament though

[12DrinkMore]

It seems that other countries are able to enforce what size bike / qualification of rider is allowed to use expressways , why not here.

I would go along with 250cc being the minimum capacity.

I would also go along with having a new license for 250cc +.

As long as the bike can safely travel at the legal limit, I don't see a need for specifying the engine capacity. I had a 125 in Europe that produced over 32 horses on around 140 Kgs, there aren't many wheeled boxes that can beat that for acceleration.

The systems in Europe are pretty good. I think the system in Germany is possibly one of the best, where you are restricted in terms of age/speed/power/power to weight ratio

http://www.tuv.com/de/en/mopeds_small_moto...orcycles.html#2

However, the problems of applying a similar system in Thailand are obviously far too great. But maybe specifying only bike above 15 horses might work.

We, IMO, as posted already, are talking about allowing a very small number of potential bikes onto a small number of Expressways around Bangkok. I really do not see a big issue here.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

I fully agree with the OP. Many a times i have been standing in pissing rain at traffic lights that were red for an eternity just because the flyover which bypasses that intersection is off limits for motorbikes, the only reason for that rule being the cops on the other end of the bridge needing to make money from the riders who chose to ignore this stupidity.

And right lanes?? Sure! Again, the only reason for that law to exist to allow cops to extort money. Along whole Sukhumvit, due to construction of the skytrain extension, they have built a nice, hole-free right lane, yet motorbikes are forced to use the left lane with all the potholes and bus/truck traffic in it. Cops are positioned virtually every few hundred meters to make sure bikes ARE on that bad lane. And if it rains? Why not allow them to use the right lane, UNDER that skytrain track, to stay dry and therefor SAFE???

Expressways? What's there "express" anyway, a speed limit of 80 km/h?? Even my boyfriend's mum's Wave can do that easy. Let alone my Yamaha RXZ, 150cc "only", which goes more than twice that speed without becoming tired.

I personally won't use the expressways for fear of buses and trucks who don't give a dam_n about other drivers and zig-zag through traffic at 130+ km/h (despite the speed limit for which cars are stopped regularly!) but the flyovers alone would make it worth the change.

Yeah, in Germany you are allowed on the "expressways" (Autobahn, the only roads in Germany that largely have NO speed limit whatsoever!) as long as your vehicle is able to (entered in it's papers) go faster than 60 km/h, even certain 50cc bikes are ok for that (and i've owned a number of them so i know that first-hand).

My signature will be on that petition!

Best regards......

Thanh

Edited August 24, 2008 by Thanh-BKK

[percy2]

It seems that other countries are able to enforce what size bike / qualification of rider is allowed to use expressways , why not here.

I would go along with 250cc being the minimum capacity.

I would also go along with having a new license for 250cc +.

As long as the bike can safely travel at the legal limit, I don't see a need for specifying the engine capacity. I had a 125 in Europe that produced over 32 horses on around 140 Kgs, there aren't many wheeled boxes that can beat that for acceleration.

The systems in Europe are pretty good. I think the system in Germany is possibly one of the best, where you are restricted in terms of age/speed/power/power to weight ratio

http://www.tuv.com/de/en/mopeds_small_moto...orcycles.html#2

However, the problems of applying a similar system in Thailand are obviously far too great. But maybe specifying only bike above 15 horses might work.

We, IMO, as posted already, are talking about allowing a very small number of potential bikes onto a small number of Expressways around Bangkok. I really do not see a big issue here.

My reasoning for 250cc is quite elitist and selfish.

Most bikes currently in Thailand are less than 250cc most less than 150cc.

Most people would not be able to afford upgrade to 250cc.

I can afford and prefer to ride larger capacity bikes >900cc.

So I would be able to enjoy the expressways without the hordes.

Seems pointless to have a cake if you cannot eat it!

Cheers

[Bard]

The problem so many are screaming over here is not really there if you really think of it. I mean we talk about expressway here, Like the Chonburi - Bangkok expressway, how many of the local community travel far with there small bikes? How many places can you actually enter and turn off from that expressway? The local bikers people think about in a negative way is all of those driving to and from marked, work etc. I don't even see them capable of paying the 30 + 30 baht for driving there, furthermore have no reason to drive there or that far, the small tanks probably won't even get them to the fill station. So if they put a 250cc minimum which you get a different motorbike tag than normal bikes to be visible in front, should really not be a biggie.

I am even one of the badass farangs with a black SUV with tinted windows... And I have nothing against this, but then again I'm a biker as well.

The Expressway was a paradise until all the truckers, buses and Isuzu pickup's figured out they're there to make obstructions. Then there is the 3 different speed limits on the expressways, and you get the truckers overtaking eachother blocking all, the VIP buses who think they belong in leftmost lane whatever happens, and so on and forth. Before you were one of few and could enjoy a relaxing and peace of madness there, now it's like a video game kind of driving there as well.

If I go to BKK I take my car anyway, motorbike to that mess no thanks, prefer my SUV there anytime. Go anywhere else the bike rocks, I don't follow "left lane rule" and in the countryside they normally won't stop you unless there is a major road block. The rules outside Bangkok seems much more laxed and thank god for that with all the silly outdated rules there is in Thailand. If they stop me in the countryside they normally have stopped me to look at the bike, then ask how fast it is etc and let me go. Right now I am bikeless and are waiting for my Ninja 250, so it will be interesting to see the local reaction on that...