A Third Of Vista Pcs Downgraded To Xp

[razor]

Vista’s death march picked up some pace yesterday, after a metrics researcher revealed that nearly 35 per cent of PCs built to run the Windows operating system have been downgraded to XP.

In a survey of more than 3,000 computers, performance testing software developer Devil Mountain Software estimated that more than one in three new machines had either been downgraded by vendors such as Dell, or by customers once they bought the PC.

The results were garnered by the research firm’s CTO Craig Barth in collaboration with InfoWorld. He based the numbers on Devil Mountain’s Exo.performance.network by collating the vendor and system model number with computer vendors’ catalogues.

Barth used that data to identify PCs that had probably been shipped within the past six months – a period of time when it was highly likely that most new machines came pre-installed with Vista.

That’s a damning verdict on an OS that Microsoft still wants frustrated customers to love.

But even in Redmond the mood has undergone a somewhat dramatic shift in recent days. Microsoft wonks are now doing their best to stoke up interest about Windows 7, the successor to Vista. The company’s Windows’ boss Steven Sinofsky has even started up a new blog ("honestly, I penned it," he proclaims) about the next operating system to ram home the message that Microsoft can do “disclosure” and deliver on time.

The software beast has already admitted it made some pretty big mistakes with Vista. Now, after trying some heavy duty marketing, Microsoft has finally conceded it’s high time to move on by explaining how MS will engineer Windows 7.

Cue Sinofsky comparing his Windows team to a Mozart opera... and also Goldilocks.

“I'm reminded of a scene from Amadeus," he chimed, "where the Emperor suggests that the Marriage of Figaro contains ‘too many notes’ to which Mozart proclaims ‘there are just as many notes, Majesty, as are required, neither more nor less.’ Upon the Emperor suggesting that Mozart remove a few notes, Mozart simply asks ‘which few did you have in mind?’.

“Of course the people on the team represent the way we get feature requests implemented and develop end to end scenarios, so the challenge is to have the right team and the right structure to maximise the ability to get those done – neither too many nor too few.”

Whether the three bears – Apple, Linux and EU/US regulators – will wade in to spoil the party remains to be seen. But Microsoft really does need to dish up an operating system that is "just right" this time.

Source .. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/19/windows_xp_vista_7/

[JSixpack]

Yep, saw that. Just finished reading another complaint about Vista on Lockergnome, something about applications freezing.

Bring on Windows 7, or at least SP2. When Vista's ready, I'm ready. But for now--my XP's tuned up and running and lookin' great.

[dotcom]

Hear hear. XP rocks.

[sniffdog]

When I used Vista I was not so dissatisfied about the OS itself, but rather the lack of support of applications I used to use.

[britmaveric]

Dunno we just deployed few 1000 Workstations with Vista - no complaints and they are humming along. VISTA blows XP away!!

[sjaak327]

Vista is ready and indeed blows XP away in many many ways. More features, much better looking, easier to deploy. XP is dead, not Vista. And it is more then likely that Windows 7 will be for a very large part based on Vista, but probably with better marketing.

[george]

I've been running Vista on 3 machines at home and at work since day one. Legal copies. It rocks!

[Guest Reimar]

It's just a report based on 3,000 plus selected computer out of 180 millions! Show's a lot!! Nice survey anyway counted on 3,000 + computer even if it's not even a countable fraction of the whole sold/installed systems!

Nothing really provable.

But that's just my two pennies!

Cheers.

[b19bry]

"It's just a report based on 3,000 plus selected computer out of 180 millions!"

That's how ALL surveys work Reimar, i.e using representative pools of data.

If the pool of data (in this case of 3,000 systems) is indeed representative, that means more than one in three of all installed systems i.e. >60 million have been downgraded to XP.

That is then not a "not even a countable fraction" it's an embarrassment !

But I suspect you knew that

[Guest Reimar]

If the pool of data (in this case of 3,000 systems) is indeed representative, that means more than one in three of all installed systems i.e. >60 million have been downgraded to XP.

That is then not a "not even a countable fraction" it's an embarrassment !

If you take a closer look there mainly just two companies in question, the major DELL and HP!

Dell is very well know that they dindn't like to use Vista while the main reason for that is not to loose "old" customers and HP knows that heir computer not really suitable for vista.

Dell rely on their "old" customer base because Dell has a quite high loss in corporate customers within the last 2-3 years which was resulting on a quite high loss on the Stock Market as well. So the need of to keep the existing customer is for an huge company like Dell a very important task.

HP on the other hand isn't very up to date with their systems and what isn't run on HP/Compaq, like just Vista, run on an 3-4 year old Sony Vaio very well. By the way I'm everything but a friend of Sony!

And one thing is sure IMHO, the reports is based not on private user of Vista!

And here we come to an other point: Corporates never changing to new systems fast. mainly just after an period of 3-4 years they starting to change, in majority!

As a side note, I do not like that reports because all of them are subjective. I do like my own experiences, or, if I had seen with my own eyes, the experiences from others, but real testing only. In the real, I give a sh*t of that research reports.

Cheers.

[sjaak327]

Futthermore, most companies that offered the downgrade, have indeed been selling XP licenses and the related prodcuct CD and key are indeed XP keys and CD, not vista.

So saying that one third out of the 180 millon have downgraded is <deleted>. But I don't get the impression anyone is claiming or thinking that anyway

"Barth used that data to identify PCs that had probably been shipped within the past six months – a period of time when it was highly likely that most new machines came pre-installed with Vista.""

It would have been very likely that most computers came pre-installed with Vista in the last two months, not six months. XP stopped selling on june 30th. OEM's like Dell and HP have been selling XP until that date.

This survey would make much more sense in about half year time, IF by that time the same results are there, then we can say that 1/3 or computers are downgraded by the user.

[b19bry]

"saying that one third out of the 180 millon have downgraded is <deleted>"

I suspect that your correct Sjaak, but I was taking Reimar to task with his comment of "not even a countable fraction" which is at least, if not more, innacurate.

There was a previous thread on this forum indicating many Vista licenses being counted for XP downgraded and delivered systems so it's a sizeable phenomena.

[RKASA]

MS never sold 180 million they have agreements to provide that many if needed its blanket order agreements and they like to tell everyone they sold that many.  Most of that is just paper between manufacture and MS.  Of those that they did sell some are upgraded to XP maybe not a 3rd but more then they like to see or talk about, and in some states they have to if you request it, but most don't.   Many are also installing Linux with the Vista inspite of MS trying to make it hard to do, but MS never counts a dual boot as such its still a Vista in their books.  (even if is not used)   Did any one notice something missing from 18 of the 20 PC's at our Tesco,  I just counted them Monday.  Its windows they all have Ubuntu installed.  est ta la vista baby.  MS can't get 7 out the door fast enough, and its rumored that its going to be XP with dressing anyway.  The other two at lotus had XP pro, not one Vista and how long has it been out?  I am sure most the Ubuntu gets dumped for a cheap copy of XP that runs around.  The one they call MS dodgy, but thats not Vista ether is it.

[balo]

I have an old Windows 98 PC , it boots much faster than my Vista laptop!!!!!!

I think that both windows 2000 and XP with the latest servicepacks are more reliable than Vista ,

I miss the old days , everything was simple and it took 30 seconds to boot .

I think that in the future we need something simple, fast and reliable .

[sjaak327]

^ I have a pc running MS-dos, which in turn blows Windows 98 boot time out of the water

[ignis]

Tried Vista a year or so ago and soon went back to XP, but for the last 3 months on my main PC I installed dual boot Vista/Xp

Vista is much faster and very good to use, all my hardware/software works fine... now the question is do I change the other PC and the 2 laptops to Vista?

Problem is we don't like change, 95, 98, ME, XP all just flowed easy with upgrading, where as Vista + Office 2007 are very different, but after getting used to it is better.

Games are a problem XP games don't run on Vista.

[RKASA]

I run open office its free and works on both MS and Linux (Linux is also free), I run my xp in vertual rather then dual boot so I can just switch to one on the other desktops and use it, its already running, so if I need IE7 its just click click,  plus open office is in both and they share files without a network all the apps do.  Run games on a game console then they will still work no matter what MS does again.  The great thing is the host linux makes a great virus protection and the data for both are on a protected linux partition they both use seamlessly if anything goes bad with windows I just call its snapshot and completely replace the system like wiping the drive and re install but only takes 5 seconds.  Its just a file.  I am sure office 7 runs with xp in vm, at least you could run Firefox in linux and stop them security problems of windows dead.  Only three places on the net I use windows, windows update, AV update and one dumb wed site that only uses IE7 I have to log into.  They share the same usb ports cdrom and nic and any limit of vm is easy to work around, like DVD level writing, but the file is in a commen place just click on other desktop and send it to the writer from linux it don't care where it came from.  You may never have to spend a dime on software or OS's again or expensive hardware.  Save it all for the game console. 

[gzu88bv]

OEM's like Dell and HP have been selling XP until that date.

Big no, last November you could not get an XP copy on a new Dell system at least not in the country I come from. And they put that Vista on any machine, whether requirements were met or not. Some of my friends run Vista on low end machines and it clearly shows. I am happy with XP and wait for the next OS....

[JSixpack]

I run open office its free and works on both MS and Linux (Linux is also free), I run my xp in vertual rather then dual boot

I keep reading that virtual machines will someday take over. I can see the advantages. I have a virtual XP for testing, but, running under an XP host, there's definitely a performance hit. Wonder how bad that is under Linux. One problem you didn't mention is the need to find hardware drivers for Linux (rather like Vista ). Linux has come far, however--so I understand.

[sjaak327]

I run open office its free and works on both MS and Linux (Linux is also free), I run my xp in vertual rather then dual boot

I keep reading that virtual machines will someday take over. I can see the advantages. I have a virtual XP for testing, but, running under an XP host, there's definitely a performance hit. Wonder how bad that is under Linux. One problem you didn't mention is the need to find hardware drivers for Linux (rather like Vista ). Linux has come far, however--so I understand.

Virtual machines are mainly used running on servers, and it makes absolute sense, as most servers are under utilized. Let's say you purchase a machine, and then only run a DNS server, that's a waste of resources. Therefore it is much cheaper to buy a machine, load it up with memory and a few processors, and then run multiple Virtual machines on the machine. Combined with shared storage, the potential for cost savings is huge (not only in terms of hardware, but also in terms of energy).

And most recent Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Suse to name but a few) like Vista don't have driver problems.

[Murgatroyd]

I have a desktop and a laptop, both running Vista, The ultimate on the Desktop, and the Home Pro on the laptop...

So far, both work fairly well... though it's frustrating that the home pro version doesn't incorporate windows fax and scan...

Vista includes a little emulation package, designed to replicate the previous versions of windows to aid software compatability. I have to say that I was very disapointed with this utility when it came to playing gaming software... old games steadfastly refused to run, even when the emulator was switched to the operating system that they were designed for...

Service pack one doesn't seem to have fixed this issue, and many options within the OS have remained "Grey" buttons... obviously intended to be available functions, but not yet functional.

Perhaps Microsoft should give some consideration to holding back the release of "Windows 7" until the OS is fully functional, and not another work in progress.

There again : Pigs might Fly

Edited August 21, 2008 by Murgatroyd

[toptuan]

^ I have a pc running MS-dos, which in turn blows Windows 98 boot time out of the water

Hey, my great-grandfather used to talk about that!

[JSixpack]

And most recent Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Suse to name but a few) like Vista don't have driver problems.

Still in denial, I see. Well, Google tells a much different story, with 195,000 hits on:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...rs&as_qdr=y

and 378,000 on

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...rs&as_qdr=y

Pitiful the way a guy couldn't even get his hard drive recognized. Then after the gurus gave him a bunch of commandlines, his DVD player wouldn't eject. Having worked a bit in the past with Unix, I can well believe that--and the 'round and 'round with cryptic commands that follows.

And Vista? VISTA? 4,500,000 on

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...rs&as_qdr=y

Of course, these are users actually trying to use Vista, not the phantom users claimed by M'soft in that bogus 180 million. True, the phantom users have no Vista driver problems. Can't believe one guy couldn't get Vista to recognize his ordinary PNY flashdrive . . . the fix was a registry edit. Who's got time for that crap?

[sgtpeppers]

I run open office its free and works on both MS and Linux (Linux is also free), I run my xp in vertual rather then dual boot so I can just switch to one on the other desktops and use it, its already running, so if I need IE7 its just click click, plus open office is in both and they share files without a network all the apps do. Run games on a game console then they will still work no matter what MS does again. The great thing is the host linux makes a great virus protection and the data for both are on a protected linux partition they both use seamlessly if anything goes bad with windows I just call its snapshot and completely replace the system like wiping the drive and re install but only takes 5 seconds. Its just a file. I am sure office 7 runs with xp in vm, at least you could run Firefox in linux and stop them security problems of windows dead. Only three places on the net I use windows, windows update, AV update and one dumb wed site that only uses IE7 I have to log into. They share the same usb ports cdrom and nic and any limit of vm is easy to work around, like DVD level writing, but the file is in a commen place just click on other desktop and send it to the writer from linux it don't care where it came from. You may never have to spend a dime on software or OS's again or expensive hardware. Save it all for the game console.

I got a similar setup on the MAC, except I also got a virtual machine for Linux.

[sjaak327]

And most recent Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Suse to name but a few) like Vista don't have driver problems.

Still in denial, I see. Well, Google tells a much different story, with 195,000 hits on:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...rs&as_qdr=y

and 378,000 on

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...rs&as_qdr=y

Pitiful the way a guy couldn't even get his hard drive recognized. Then after the gurus gave him a bunch of commandlines, his DVD player wouldn't eject. Having worked a bit in the past with Unix, I can well believe that--and the 'round and 'round with cryptic commands that follows.

And Vista? VISTA? 4,500,000 on

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...rs&as_qdr=y

Of course, these are users actually trying to use Vista, not the phantom users claimed by M'soft in that bogus 180 million. True, the phantom users have no Vista driver problems. Can't believe one guy couldn't get Vista to recognize his ordinary PNY flashdrive . . . the fix was a registry edit. Who's got time for that crap?

Sorry, I will rephrase, You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make Operating systems like Ubuntu or Suse or Vista work.

If you use hardware that is 15 years old, then it might be a problem. But in general these systems are mature and can be installed on a variety of hardware.

That people still have drivers problems is nothing new, or shocking, and this happens also to your beloved XP and will be more the case in the future.

[RKASA]

I run open office its free and works on both MS and Linux (Linux is also free), I run my xp in vertual rather then dual boot

I keep reading that virtual machines will someday take over. I can see the advantages. I have a virtual XP for testing, but, running under an XP host, there's definitely a performance hit. Wonder how bad that is under Linux. One problem you didn't mention is the need to find hardware drivers for Linux (rather like Vista ). Linux has come far, however--so I understand.

Really not that big a deal I always say if your video has to be that high end its more often a gaming issue get a console.  Plus why buy new hardware to run linux anyway. My laptop is 5 years old. Even Vista had some issues, but if the hardware guys can stop hiding information at MS request then dev's would be working on it sooner.  Dev can't write drivers without spec's and MS says if you give to them we won't be nice with the info you need from us and they have a big bite of the market, its called blackmail.  

forgot the vertual XP performence, for the things I do I see no change but sure if I try to do other stuff like I use linux for it would show, I have been able to limit the RAM use of XP to 360mb this way and have the rest for host or another guest, as I only have a max 1gb of RAM with 1.4gh

Edited August 21, 2008 by RKASA

[joncl]

Dunno we just deployed few 1000 Workstations with Vista - no complaints and they are humming along. VISTA blows XP away!!

Agreed 100% ... blows XP totally away and dam near as good as a semi decent linux box ...

[RKASA]

Dunno we just deployed few 1000 Workstations with Vista - no complaints and they are humming along. VISTA blows XP away!!

Agreed 100% ... blows XP totally away and dam near as good as a semi decent linux box ...

Now all they have to do is pay $19.95 -to- $65.95 for everything they want to use it for or use the spyware, keylogger version.  Then they can vista 15 differant sites just to get up dates.  I ll stay with two clicks and a repos that does it all.  Free    See not even a commandline.  I have been to the commandline as much in windows as Linux, differance is, the linux was still working when I was done.  

[joncl]

Dunno we just deployed few 1000 Workstations with Vista - no complaints and they are humming along. VISTA blows XP away!!

Agreed 100% ... blows XP totally away and dam near as good as a semi decent linux box ...

Now all they have to do is pay $19.95 -to- $65.95 for everything they want to use it for or use the spyware, keylogger version. Then they can vista 15 differant sites just to get up dates. I ll stay with two clicks and a repos that does it all. Free See not even a commandline. I have been to the commandline as much in windows as Linux, differance is, the linux was still working when I was done.

Maybe I should have said we use both operating systems here, and the comment was aimed at how Vista lagged behind many of the later linux distro's.

[bdenner]

Well, I gave Vista SP1 a good workout over a 3 month period dual booting with Xp SP2. IMO a good way of carrying out a comparison using exactly the same hardware and a lot of the same software separately installed on both systems.

What a headache Vista was and is now in the bin where it belongs - RIP. ---- I have my sanity back.