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My Experience At Grace Dental Clinic


lifemagic

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I'm in a cybercafe in Thaepae, waiting for a site mirroring to finish. While doing so I typed about my experience two days ago of going to Grace Dental clinic. I'm posting it here... because I'm bored, and because it was the advice on this forum that made me choose them... and maybe there are other bored people in cybercafes waiting for downloads to finish and we can all feel less lonely by sharing.

---

My Visit to Grace Dental Clinic, North Thailand, 2008.

Background

I was taken to the dentists infrequently as a kid. Each time I went it was always one filling per visit.

When I left school, I just stopped going for about three years. I went again and the guy said two fillings but when he was about to inject me I panicked and put my hand over my mouth. I'd only just recovered from agoraphobia... but the guy went mad and I was thrown out of the office. I hated myself.

Well I was worried about the work that needed doing, so I found someone else and went there. He was nicer and also said two fillings needed... both on the opposite side of my mouth. So now I didn't know what to do, but just left with nothing being done, and didn't go to a dentist for thirteen years.

I didn't have any problems in that time except some bunching on the lower jaw middle. The tooth that's been pressed either side is jammed tight and I can't get floss down beside it. Some pieces have fell of the back of it so it's half as thick as it was.

Also the backs of the lower jaw teeth felt very rough, like fine sandpaper. I couldn't bring myself to look in the mirror.

I gave up smoking in March and started to think about going to the dentist here in Thailand as it's cheaper and the people are nicer. I read the forums and people said that Grace Dental Clinic was expensive compared to Thai places, but cheap compared to London. I got the guesthouse lady to phone, 1200 for check and exam, and off I went.

They have an online map, used in conjunction with my map I found it easy to find. There's a sign at the soi entrance. It was a standalone building on two levels. I went up to the one that looked more occupied. There were about three females on reception and they said my name as I walked in. I had to fll a form in, most of which I left blank. I took a drink from the water-cooler and noticed there were customer tea and coffee making facilities.

As I waited I noticed that all the dentists had pictures to the right of reception. I'd heard it was all female, but it seemed mixed genders working there. Plus one of the receptionists was a ladyboy. This is good as I'm all for diversity.

About fifteen minutes after my appointment time a nurse led me down to the lower level. This didn't look as nice and is perhaps reserved for routine stuff. There were slippers provided but I wasn't asked to wear them and went in in my own flippies.

Inside the person in charge was about 30 and the nurse 50. She asked some questions about my health, which isn't great but I don't used doctors so I faffed about and she seemed confused and said she'd have a look. I lay back she used a needle type tool around my mouth for about fifty seconds. I looked at the older nurse and noticed she was laughing. They stopped and talked in Thai and I started to get paranoid, expecting them to say about filling this or filling that but she said in English it's OK.

She said I might get sensivity and to raise my hand if so. My face was covered with a cloth mask and they started. It went on for about forty minutes? Starting with a rubbing tool. Then scraping with a needle all around. When she got to the middle where it was rough-feeling, the needle kept being stabbed into my gums and was hurting and I thought about raising my hand, but recalled how unhappy I was with the rough feeling and perhaps if I complain she won't do it properly, but go too light? So I lay there. Then I felt some floss going in on the upper right and get stuck. Then they used some polishing tool. There was a lot of water going in but the older nurse with the sucking took kept it on the opposite side of the mouth and I had to keep swallowing. They mostly worked in silence. Sometimes they talked. Someone came in from outside and there was a conversation while they were working. Sometimes she would ask me to move or open wider but I only just managed to hear when I realised she was addressing me.

When it was done she said get up. I asked if there were cavities or problems and she said no. So either she didn't tell the truth, possibly thinking I'm insane or something, having refused to look in the mirror earlier? Or everything the English 'dentists' told me over a decade ago was a crock of s***. She said the bunching is crooked teeth, but normal. There's mild gum disease, but then quantified that it was only 'at the back'. She ended telling me not to leave it long again, but see someone every six months.

I went back upstairs. The ladyboy nurse said 1500 baht. I said the quoted price was 1200. S/he said it's 'from' 1200 and the guesthouse lady explained it to me incorrectly (possibly true), but the dentist has noted there was 'heavy deposit' which is extra. I considered it. They'd done the work with no money or credit card in advance, and no cash, so there was a degree of trust on their part and scope for a genuine misunderstanding, so I paid and thanked them.

Then I walked to Kad Saen Kew and had a celebratery coke, to put the first deposit back on my newly cleaned teeth! and was all done.

This was two days ago. Since then there's been very minor pain where the stabbing was. No blood or problems. The back of the lower jaw which felt like fine sandpaper now feels like smooth porcelain and I can get the floss down OK.

The main thing I think about it all is bitterness about English dentists. How can it be every visit there's a new cavity throughout my childhood, then I leave it for over a decade and there are none? They were just ripping me off. I mean... this Thai dentist wouldn't say it was OK if it wasn't... would she? Even if I act eccentrically.

Then I started to think... maybe she wasn't the dentist? It was just some trainee they keep down the bottom for the eccentric patients that won't look in mirrors or wear slippers.

But then I think, pull yourself together. You were expecting a couple of thousand in dental fees after all this time, and it turns out it was OK. Just accept that and be happy. It's Thailand, relax!

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I, too, am a nervous patient, and have suffered much in American dentistry. Having been to Grace dental and Dental 4 U (hate the name, but WONDERFUL experience) I can say that Thai dentists in my opinion are far superior in skill, patience and for lack of a better term, gentleness. Congrats on overcoming your fear!

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I'm in a cybercafe in Thaepae, waiting for a site mirroring to finish. While doing so I typed about my experience two days ago of going to Grace Dental clinic. I'm posting it here... because I'm bored, and because it was the advice on this forum that made me choose them... and maybe there are other bored people in cybercafes waiting for downloads to finish and we can all feel less lonely by sharing.

---

My Visit to Grace Dental Clinic, North Thailand, 2008.

Background

I was taken to the dentists infrequently as a kid. Each time I went it was always one filling per visit.

When I left school, I just stopped going for about three years. I went again and the guy said two fillings but when he was about to inject me I panicked and put my hand over my mouth. I'd only just recovered from agoraphobia... but the guy went mad and I was thrown out of the office. I hated myself.

Well I was worried about the work that needed doing, so I found someone else and went there. He was nicer and also said two fillings needed... both on the opposite side of my mouth. So now I didn't know what to do, but just left with nothing being done, and didn't go to a dentist for thirteen years.

I didn't have any problems in that time except some bunching on the lower jaw middle. The tooth that's been pressed either side is jammed tight and I can't get floss down beside it. Some pieces have fell of the back of it so it's half as thick as it was.

Also the backs of the lower jaw teeth felt very rough, like fine sandpaper. I couldn't bring myself to look in the mirror.

I gave up smoking in March and started to think about going to the dentist here in Thailand as it's cheaper and the people are nicer. I read the forums and people said that Grace Dental Clinic was expensive compared to Thai places, but cheap compared to London. I got the guesthouse lady to phone, 1200 for check and exam, and off I went.

They have an online map, used in conjunction with my map I found it easy to find. There's a sign at the soi entrance. It was a standalone building on two levels. I went up to the one that looked more occupied. There were about three females on reception and they said my name as I walked in. I had to fll a form in, most of which I left blank. I took a drink from the water-cooler and noticed there were customer tea and coffee making facilities.

As I waited I noticed that all the dentists had pictures to the right of reception. I'd heard it was all female, but it seemed mixed genders working there. Plus one of the receptionists was a ladyboy. This is good as I'm all for diversity.

About fifteen minutes after my appointment time a nurse led me down to the lower level. This didn't look as nice and is perhaps reserved for routine stuff. There were slippers provided but I wasn't asked to wear them and went in in my own flippies.

Inside the person in charge was about 30 and the nurse 50. She asked some questions about my health, which isn't great but I don't used doctors so I faffed about and she seemed confused and said she'd have a look. I lay back she used a needle type tool around my mouth for about fifty seconds. I looked at the older nurse and noticed she was laughing. They stopped and talked in Thai and I started to get paranoid, expecting them to say about filling this or filling that but she said in English it's OK.

She said I might get sensivity and to raise my hand if so. My face was covered with a cloth mask and they started. It went on for about forty minutes? Starting with a rubbing tool. Then scraping with a needle all around. When she got to the middle where it was rough-feeling, the needle kept being stabbed into my gums and was hurting and I thought about raising my hand, but recalled how unhappy I was with the rough feeling and perhaps if I complain she won't do it properly, but go too light? So I lay there. Then I felt some floss going in on the upper right and get stuck. Then they used some polishing tool. There was a lot of water going in but the older nurse with the sucking took kept it on the opposite side of the mouth and I had to keep swallowing. They mostly worked in silence. Sometimes they talked. Someone came in from outside and there was a conversation while they were working. Sometimes she would ask me to move or open wider but I only just managed to hear when I realised she was addressing me.

When it was done she said get up. I asked if there were cavities or problems and she said no. So either she didn't tell the truth, possibly thinking I'm insane or something, having refused to look in the mirror earlier? Or everything the English 'dentists' told me over a decade ago was a crock of s***. She said the bunching is crooked teeth, but normal. There's mild gum disease, but then quantified that it was only 'at the back'. She ended telling me not to leave it long again, but see someone every six months.

I went back upstairs. The ladyboy nurse said 1500 baht. I said the quoted price was 1200. S/he said it's 'from' 1200 and the guesthouse lady explained it to me incorrectly (possibly true), but the dentist has noted there was 'heavy deposit' which is extra. I considered it. They'd done the work with no money or credit card in advance, and no cash, so there was a degree of trust on their part and scope for a genuine misunderstanding, so I paid and thanked them.

Then I walked to Kad Saen Kew and had a celebratery coke, to put the first deposit back on my newly cleaned teeth! and was all done.

This was two days ago. Since then there's been very minor pain where the stabbing was. No blood or problems. The back of the lower jaw which felt like fine sandpaper now feels like smooth porcelain and I can get the floss down OK.

The main thing I think about it all is bitterness about English dentists. How can it be every visit there's a new cavity throughout my childhood, then I leave it for over a decade and there are none? They were just ripping me off. I mean... this Thai dentist wouldn't say it was OK if it wasn't... would she? Even if I act eccentrically.

Then I started to think... maybe she wasn't the dentist? It was just some trainee they keep down the bottom for the eccentric patients that won't look in mirrors or wear slippers.

But then I think, pull yourself together. You were expecting a couple of thousand in dental fees after all this time, and it turns out it was OK. Just accept that and be happy. It's Thailand, relax!

Yes, I agree with both of you and numerous other TV members that Grace, though slightly pricey, is well worth the extra few baht; they were excellent when dealing with my 6 yr old daughter and, when I went to check on an uncomfortable bridge, done by another CM Dentist, they checked thoroughly, X-Ray'ed and told me all was well--no attempt to 'rubbish' another establishment and do unnecessary 'modifications'.

Well done for going--keep it up, there are good Dentists in the UK, my ex-partner is an excellent, caring, gentle, lady practitioner, you just need to find a good one--but do go regularly--it avoids big problems-inci 'dentally' we, the Brits, are apparently known worldwide for crappy teeth--so, for the sake of Your Country, look after them.

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Thanks Lifemagic and others for writing down your experiences. Haven't gone to a dentist for ages as well. Slowly, slowly I'm putting my act together (this kind of posts really help) and one day I probably will make that dreadful appointment at Grace. Brrrrrrrrr.

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Or everything the English 'dentists' told me over a decade ago was a crock of s***.

an interesting report.

for dentists , nervous patients are the hardest to work on and not all dentists have the personality, patience or skills necessary to put a phobic at their ease.

in the uk , nhs dentists work on a tight appointment system with fixed fees and dont always give nervous patients the time needed to put those phobics at ease. each successive bad experience just increases the phobia.

as for non - existent cavities , 10 years ago small areas of enamel demineralisation (the first step in cavity formation) would usually be filled. these days , guidelines suggest a wait and see approach , these areas may be self limiting and can remineralise. decay that has already progressed through the enamel and has affected the dentine , which lies under the enamel will not remineralise and removal of the decay followed by a filling will always be necessary.

for a non ethical dentist working in the uk nhs system , providing a small filling will attract a fee , whereas following the "wait and see " approach will involve time for explanation and advice and will not attract any fees.

people with poor toothbrushing habits who also produce a lot of scale sometimes ( but not always) have teeth that are remarkably resistant to caries (decay).

a large and long standing build up of scale can cause gum damage , this usually resolves after the teeth have been scaled , scaling should be done once or twice a year.

i have found thai dentists to be remarkably patient and also ethical in their approach to prescribing treatment.

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UK dentists suck by comparison.

Tough to generalise like that - I've had a couple of really good dentists in the UK but they're always working at a frantic pace to get you in and out as fast as possible which makes the experience even more stressful than it needs to be. The cost doesn't help either.

It occurred to me that we all sing the praises of Thai dentists who work at such places at Grace and Dentaland (where I've been going), but they're all top of the line outfits as far as locals are concerned so we'd expect to find the best practitioners working there wouldn't we? I bet you'd have a more mixed selection of reports if many of us had to go the dentist round the corner in some small provincial town.

I've given my mouth a complete overhaul in the last 5 or 6 years, replaced over a dozen old amalgam fillings with white ones, root canals, crowns....you name it. I think that while the prices were an amazing bargain when I started, the margin (I was going to say gap but thought I'd better avoid the hail of emoticons that would surely result) is narrowing, so now it's just cheaper, rather than a quarter of the price. Dental and medical tourism is a growing business here and probably exherts upward pressure on prices at the top end of the market because the provders are aware of what we pay in other countries.

Edited by Greenside
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UK dentists suck by comparison.

Tough to generalise like that - I've had a couple of really good dentists in the UK but they're always working at a frantic pace to get you in and out as fast as possible which makes the experience even more stressful than it needs to be. The cost doesn't help either.

It occurred to me that we all sing the praises of Thai dentists who work at such places at Grace and Dentaland (where I've been going), but they're all top of the line outfits as far as locals are concerned so we'd expect to find the best practitioners working there wouldn't we? I bet you'd have a more mixed selection of reports if many of us had to go the dentist round the corner in some small provincial town.

I've given my mouth a complete overhaul in the last 5 or 6 years, replaced over a dozen old amalgam fillings with white ones, root canals, crowns....you name it. I think that while the prices were an amazing bargain when I started, the margin (I was going to say gap but thought I'd better avoid the hail of emoticons that would surely result) is narrowing, so now it's just cheaper, rather than a quarter of the price. Dental and medical tourism is a growing business here and probably exherts upward pressure on prices at the top end of the market because the provders are aware of what we pay in other countries.

Totally agree with both Taxexile [ who is so knowledgeable to almost have to have been involved professionally] and Greenside--NHS is the governing factor with regard to UK Dentsts' ability to do a good job--my ex opted out after trying to make a go at it but finding 10 min appts and lack of funding for top quality materials impossible to work with--and, as Greenside says, I also have tried provincial Thai Dentists both for myself and daughter--don't go there, altho' I'm sure that there are good ones, somewhere. Grace is expensive, as are other CM practices, this is what makes them so dam_n good [ still cheap compared to Private practices in UK]

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Great Account!

I had exactly the same experience with UK dentists, every time I went the dentist filled my mouth with mercury! I'm sure it's something to do with getting commission as a national health dentist.

I used to hate going to the dentist, but now I love going for cleaning, they do such a good job at Grace, your teeth feel all shiny and new!

I'm thinking of getting a brace, has anyone had experience with that at Grace?

:o

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First novella I ever read about getting one's teeth cleaned!

Don't forget to floss!

Otherwise there is a huge number of messages on TV about Grace. All of them favorable, as I recall. Just use the search function.

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Grace for me!! See below.

By EMMA MORTON

The Sun UK

Health Editor

Published: Today

THE NHS dentist crisis may have led to thousands of Brits having ALL their teeth pulled out, figures revealed yesterday.

Many families could not find a dentist at the height of the shortage, between 2004 and 2007.

Now a study of 10,000 treatments suggests people’s teeth rotted.

Complex work on crowns or fillings decreased — but denture fittings rose ten per cent, said the NHS Information Centre.

Also, after controversial dental contracts were introduced in 2006, treatments fell by a million to 27million over two years.

The Tories described it as “a complete failure”.

But health bosses insist things are improving, with 655 new NHS dentists now working.

Chief Dental Officer Dr Barry Cockcroft said: “NHS dentistry is on the road to recovery.”

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It's me, OP.

Glad some people found the post beneficial (were you all waiting for downloads too?)

I've also heard Brits are getting famous for bad teeth.

Maybe there's some deeper meaning about human nature in it all. People do a job and maximise their income. With the old NHS system, they looked at you, then told you what they were about to do while they were reaching for the drill, collected the money straight from the state with no check on if the work was necessary and no extra reward for good performance. Maybe it was previously policy to fill and drill a lot more than it is now, but it's hard not to be cynical, when my mouth is full of black metal I didn't ask for and I've been fine the past twelve years.

A sad fact of the world is that there's a big difference between what you pay good money for and what the state provides for free; and it probably applies to a lot of things. It's a sad fact for the people who don't have the money.

I'm going to be back here next year, so might have the fillings replaced, but I'll definitely do another check and clean.

I'd just like to ask two things, if anyone still want to talk about it (very long downloads over a dial-up?)

1 - No one mentioned the scratching of my gums. Is that normal during a cleaning then? (They're fine now, by the way).

2 - What's 'scaling'? Is that a part of the cleaning I just had... or another expense for next time!

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I too like Grace. Went just for a check up quite a while back and to get a gum teeth mold done ( I top-up whiten my teeth at home from time to time to remove any stubborn stains. I like having white teeth.). They were friendly and efficient and good value. She checked over my teeth, usual check-up, and declared all is well. Even questioned why i would want to whiten my teeth as she said i didnt need to, then I explained it was just for occasional maintenance, so she sorted me out with low dose peroxide. Definitely impressed that she questioned my need for that rather than just wanting to take my money.

Reminds me that i aught to go for another check up soon.

1 - No one mentioned the scratching of my gums. Is that normal during a cleaning then? (They're fine now, by the way). < Yes, this to me is a normal procedure. However, your gums may be more sensitive due to some gum disease, so will hurt more. I actually use a home scraper gently on my own gums from time to time, especially as some areas are hard to clean with a toothbrush and floss. It does feel like scratching because the tool is used under the gum.

2 - What's 'scaling'? Is that a part of the cleaning I just had... or another expense for next time! < I believe scaling is a scraping action on the teeth to remove a build up of plaque. DIfferent tools and brushes are used to remove that build up. Takes a while if you dont look after your teeth. From your description, sounds like you had this done already.

I too am a Brit, and after an awful childhood of rather poor NHS treatment, i went to Europe to have my 4 mercury fillings removed and replaced with white fillings, had a crown fitted on a problem tooth. (had already done a whitening treatment prior to that). Money very well spent as I am proud of my smile, perfect for me, but thankfully not looking Hollywood perfect. :o

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Ernie could lift a fat kid two feet above the chair with either the drill OR the needle. Once that needle came out my nose as Ernie worked on my two recently missing front teeth. I distinctly remember him whistling the theme song for "Bonanza" during the whole event.....Never liked cowboys after that. This will eventually tie back in to Chiang Mai Thailand somewhere down the line I predict

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when my dad came for a visit to thailand, he stopped by Grace after hearing about their great reputation.

His american dentist had given him a few quotes, and told him some work that needed to be done.. The thai dentist told him he didn't need to have that work done, and with the money he saved in dental fees, he paid for his trip to Thailand.

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Our local dentist that gave me the FEAR was named "ERNIE the DRILLER!!!"In beautiful downtown Leavenworth Washington.Skipped many a session that Mom had set up after school

Hmm, I had someone like that in my childhood as well but we called him "Father Ernie, The Driller"..

Grace has been fantastic for most of our needs including oral surgery for my wife but they didn't measure up for cleaning and my wife is now using a Thai dentist here in CM who is so popular it takes a month to get an appointment.

A proper cleaning includes 'scaling' which, as I understand it, means digging up under the gums with tools of torture to pry plaque scales off the tooth above the gum line. If this is not done, the cleaning is merely cosmetic and medically worthless.

If your teeth have not been cleaned for quite some time, a proper dental technician will schedule several appointments and do your mouth in 'quadrants' and you can expect some pain and resultant bleeding for a bit afterward.

Unless you wish to look like a Brit, or a Thai with three teeth in their mouth at age 45, it pays to go thru the minor discomfort and expense of exams/cleanings on a regular basis...

Edited by Dustoff
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Cinnamon roll seekers be advised!!

Just to make people a little more uncomfortable about not getting their teeth cleaned, are you familiar with the established research relationship between nasty teeth and heart disease? And I don't mean your putting others in cardiac arrest due to your bad breath.

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When Dr. Korat opened the treatment room on the parking lot level, she explained to me with pride that it was being opened for the handicapped, so they wouldn't have to climb the stairs.

When I was barely able to walk and on "walking sticks", my appointments were still scheduled with her on the second floor. I suspect, she was employing a little "fluff" in her description of the purpose of that room. The only time I have seen it used, was as an overflow room for when the other suites are booked. Reception staff must have a "control" problem when that room is in use.

OPs conjecture regarding the qualifications of his "teeth cleaner" are unfounded. Teeth cleaners at

Grace are gum specilists by training and have the appropriate degrees. Dr. Korat explained that they used general dentists to clean teeth for a while but it didn't work out well for anyone, since gums were often in issue at such sessions and referrals to gum specialists were required. Cross booking of appointments and the many referrals that ended up with "no gum work needed", ended up to be problematic for patients and Grace. Thus, she now uses only gum specialists, sorry I don't know the correct terminology, to clean teeht at Grace. I am sure it ends in "ist"

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When Dr. Korat opened the treatment room on the parking lot level, she explained to me with pride that it was being opened for the handicapped, so they wouldn't have to climb the stairs.

When I was barely able to walk and on "walking sticks", my appointments were still scheduled with her on the second floor. I suspect, she was employing a little "fluff" in her description of the purpose of that room. The only time I have seen it used, was as an overflow room for when the other suites are booked. Reception staff must have a "control" problem when that room is in use.

OPs conjecture regarding the qualifications of his "teeth cleaner" are unfounded. Teeth cleaners at

Grace are gum specilists by training and have the appropriate degrees. Dr. Korat explained that they used general dentists to clean teeth for a while but it didn't work out well for anyone, since gums were often in issue at such sessions and referrals to gum specialists were required. Cross booking of appointments and the many referrals that ended up with "no gum work needed", ended up to be problematic for patients and Grace. Thus, she now uses only gum specialists, sorry I don't know the correct terminology, to clean teeht at Grace. I am sure it ends in "ist"

You're right they are Periodontists, I alternate my regular check ups between my Dentist and the Periodontist.

The "gum guy" specializes in deep cleaning. The first couple of times I had the treatment it was in quadrants, time and pain constraints meant a quarter of your nashers was as much as could be achieved in one visit. It does get better now there is not much more discomfort than than regular scaling.

I think I'm right in saying that gum disease is a bigger problem for adults than is tooth decay. Bad gums drop good teeth.

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This is even more confusing.

But I think I'm happy for now. I'm in the region for a long time. I think I'll get another clean in either HK or Japan in five or six months and see if they say or do anything differently. If not, I'll get the other stuff when I get back.

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Glad it worked out for you at Grace, lifemagic.

I've used them for 2 years; was there today, and have an appointment on Monday as well.

One of my best friends here in CM is my former dentist, now retired, from the US. He thinks they are artists/artisans/genius craftsmen(women) at what they do.

Top notch environment, perfect hygiene, latest equipment, excellent customer service, etc. Pricey but not unreasonable for the value received IMHO.

Wouldn't go anywhere else even if you paid me.

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Glad it worked out for you at Grace, lifemagic.

I've used them for 2 years; was there today, and have an appointment on Monday as well.

One of my best friends here in CM is my former dentist, now retired, from the US. He thinks they are artists/artisans/genius craftsmen(women) at what they do.

Top notch environment, perfect hygiene, latest equipment, excellent customer service, etc. Pricey but not unreasonable for the value received IMHO.

Wouldn't go anywhere else even if you paid me.

Why do I feel the urge to tempt you? I have a new Black & Decker drill and I will give you a hundred baht to come over for a few 'treatments' McG... :o

Dr. Korakot is also a master of prosthodontics.

I have worn full dentures since age nineteen and she created my last set which are so comfortable and high quality that I wouldn't have real teeth if you paid me..

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My sweetums had 8 extractions, followed by a sinus lift, bone graft and 8 titanium implants - horrific procedure no doubt, but he was totally impressed by the quality and care of their work, and like you, Dustoff, wouldn't go back to "normal" teeth - they chip, decay, stain etc...

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