PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[Spee]

It seems very clear that PAD is insisting on a government that is 70% appointed by the military. They have been quoted over and over again saying that. If that is not the case, PAD should deny their support of that idea and clarify what kind of government they propose.

If this is indeed correct, then it is wrong in so many ways. The PM should be the commander-in-chief of the military. The military leadership should serve the PM commander, not be an appointer or approver of them.

To espouse and be an active proponent of governing philosophies wanting the military to appoint/approve/condone the central government is scary, scary, scary stuff. It is about as undemocratic as can be.

I truly hope this is not the case. If it is indeed correct, then the current government must remain in place at all costs.

[scyriacus]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward? is toxin not a greater coward??

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'hero' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts. agree

I didn't create the facts. agree

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero..... sorry, i was wrong then, it just sounded like that, coz you so obviously supported toxin and his puppet, at least found him less dangerous as sondhi, didn't you?

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts.... i suffer, believe me, but not for sondhi or toxin, but for thailand

dear mr laopo, i am definitely not in the position and never intended to excuse or even support a dubious character like sondhi. please read my posts thoroughly and you will not find a single good word about this man. when the pad is accused (where he is just one character amongst thousands, and tax-sin or samak are defended, then and only then i may draw comparison between 2 or 3 rogues. and it happens, that sondhi is worth nothing, but controls a few million baht and toxin is worth nothing, but controls a few billion baht. guess who i find more dangerous! look above, didn't you see the sarcasm in "t is out, but s. is in" i just wanted to mention, that this is the main difference between the two rogues. i don't want sondhi to be the next pm. clear enough? but i want toxins puppets out! all toxinocracy and all toxinomics forgotten. and i see no one else but this self declared savior of thailand. he is evil, but definitely the lesser evil of the two and he is not running for any office. and please allow me to add: we should not talk people, we should talk ideas, concepts. and although i admit not to know much about pad's ideas (who knows?), i know enough about toxins and samaks ways to deeply detest them (and with me many many thai friends) toxin and his puppet have no friends here, coz we are not poor and uneducated enough to believe in any one of his many lies, advertisments and propaganda tricks (i am ready to discuss that in detail: 30 baht, million baht, whatever you want). for the sake of the thai people: corruption and their profiteers have to go. full stop. what comes next needs to be watched closely. and again: what do we do without an opposition? go on the road! on the trains, the airports, where it hurts most! responsible are those who fear and fight opposition, transparency, control.

[britmaveric]

Long live the current govt, although I don't like you Samak - I certainly think you can't fold for the sake of democracy in Thailand. Let a clear minority get away with pushing the govt out is clearly beyond reproach. Stick it out and remain strong. All of the Thai People need you!!!!!

Edited August 31, 2008 by britmaveric

[scyriacus]

What is it you don't believe, the first (PAD not going after corruption) or the second (Thaksin not pulling the strings). Just curious. I don't have sources to the contrary on the Thaksin claim, but someone who's wife has been convicted, who's assest has been frozen, and who has choosen to go back to the UK, doesn't seem in control to me.

'doesn't seem' sounds good! but do you really believe he has given up? maybe he is not in complete control, but still has his puppet & stirrup holder in a high position and so very desperately wanna come back and take his booty. how is that? sounds stupid or reasonable?

[robee]

If this action by PAD causes the price of beer to rise in the capital there is going to be hel_l to pay!

I know that some here on Thai Visa want to compare this situation (perhaps a revolution) to famous communist coups around the world since the 1950's. I prefer to compare PAD to that once infamous German Army corporal, Adolf Hitler.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is using scare tactics to mold the opinion of the uninformed populace to their own ends. While complaining and pointing fingers at the elected government about anything and everything they refuse to negotiate on any subject and simply call for an end to present government rule. Sound familiar? Same thing happened two years ago which led to a coup d'état and the ousting of a seated, elected government.

This is nothing new. Many of us remember from our history lessons that back in the 1930's Europe they had their own PAD saying exactly the same thing about the seated government. The Nazi Party used the economic hardships suffered by the Germans to grab power. Adolph Hitler and his ilk fooled the German people into joining their extreme and radical movement to overthrow the government.

Like the Nazi's in Germany PAD has no business in a civilized Thai society. They are trampling on the peoples consciences and revising history to suit their own ends. These extreme, unconscionable leaders are master manipulators, preying on the weak, drunk with power and serve no constructive purpose. It is time to put an end to the madness and remove PAD and their self-serving leaders. They have had their fifteen minutes in the spotlight and have fooled innocent Thai people long enough.

IMHO

"Protesters say that Western-style democracy has allowed corruption to flourish and they want a new government with a parliament in which most of the lawmakers are appointed and only 30 percent elected."

gee imaginr that...

[DP25]

The 70:30 seat split idea is ridiculous not only because it is wrong, but also because it is not needed for the protesters to achieve their goals. The PPP supporters and the Thaksinists are a small minority of voters that only managed to gather 36% of the vote last time around. All that the opposition needs to do is not to foolishly allow their vote to be split next time around, as they form a large majority of Thai voters. It is not enough to declare certain parties to be in alliance, or to be anti Thaksin or anti PPP, they need to run under a single ticket to as not to divide the vote as like what happened in the previous elections, which resulted in a farce where the ruling party gathered a bit over 1/3rd the vote.

[Tony Clifton]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

His staff is having problems getting paid but are hanging on for what they bellieve in.

Part of this wiki crap has been reviewed by the Baker Bots Thaksin I didn't do it! World Tour and that other firm he hired in Hong Kong.

Of course the first thing they did was to rewrite Thaksin's wiki page.

Tony: Wikipedia is an open source, so why don't you rewrite it if it's not true ?

If T.'s staff can do it, you can, can't you ?

It's so easy Tony to shout now that this Wikipedia ''crap'' has been reviewed; why don't you come with FACTS that this crap is non-factual ?

And, BBC's comments are also untrue and non-factual ?

"They (PAD - Sondi etc.) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7584369.stm

It's too easy Tony what you claim, too easy.

LaoPo

What I type on Thaivisa remains on Thaivisa, unedited, 99.9% of the time.

Why would I want to spend time rewriting a Wikipedia article when the whole thing is messed up with on a regular basis.

Look at the edit wars here especially towards the bottom of the page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thaksin_...icle_cleaned_up

If you want to know something about the world of Thaksin, Thaivisa is often # 1 in Google search results and wiki #2 or vice versa. So we have Thaivisapedia (with mostly all of the news articles since 2003-4? just by doing a search of topics with Thaksin in the title.

One of many examples from wiki : *You seem to have erased the few paragraphs on his family's business and political background in Chiang Mai.

*Even if Thaksin never entered politics, he would still be remembered as one of Thailand's the most successful entrepreneurs and a key figure in the growth of Thailand's fast growing telecom sector. Devoting just 3 sentences to his business career is inappropriate.

Patiwat, how much does he pay you? He would be remembered as the most evil public figure in Thailand who personally represents how successful a cheater/lier/exploiter can achieve by the power of money. How a civil officer with an insight knowledge about government IT development plan-a national sattlelite concession, opened a company based on that insight knowledge, then cheated on his foreign business partner, can be remembered as a successful entrepreneur???? Pleeeeeaaaasssse!!! Is that a kind of life worth living??

Remind you of a particular forum?

[scyriacus]

It is all in the public domain so if fair for debate. It begs the most obvious question as to why was Sondhi so pro Thaksin at the beginning. I would believe a promise was made, and when the Sondhi didn't get all his debt forgiven by his creditors under a probably agreed deal, he turned with a vengeance on Thaksin. Obviously hel_l hath no fury as a bankrupt businessman who wants his place back at the top table.

sounds resonable. now that we know sondhis evil intentions, what is tax-sin planning? early peaceful retirement and leave the booty with sondhi? no "place back at the top table."? do you wanna tell this? hearty? heartily? wholeheartedly?

[scyriacus]

... I don't like PPP, and hate corruption, but if it is allowed to be seen that PAD can overthrow a government, PPP will probably drive 100,000 farmers with pitch forks down to Bangkok in 2 weeks time and then god help us all.

so you don't like ppp & corruption, but you perceive ppp & 100,000 farmers with pitch forks is lawful and acceptable? if not, please join us and fight these corrupt ppp pitch fork farmers.

[Tony Clifton]

is there any way to block a person's posts from being viewable?

My controls, top right.

Left column menu, under OPTIONS : . Manage Ignored Users add user name

NBT has shown photos which appear to prove that the photos oft-mentioned in this thread - particularly the one with the gun pointing at a demonstrator's head - were doctored - in fact the muzzle of the gun is on the other side of the person's head and does not appear to be pointed at anyone.

NBT also claims that police have concluded that the tear gas was definitely not the same as what the police use.

NBT is in no position to authenticate photos when they themselves have been caught red handed over and over intentionally spreading misinformation always in favour of the PPP and it Little Emperor in London eg:Samak's cabinet ministers have resigned due to health problems, all three news anchors nodding and agreeing in unison like faithful Thaksin zombies. This week again, in tense moments with the police and PAD this week there was obvious manipulation of the video feed that went from live to older footage without warning or mention on the screen. They also won't bother showing you the Molotov cocktail thrown from INSIDE the police station compound, people all diving to the ground dodging rubber bullets (some hit) or canisters spreading. They also didn't show the cowardly policeman running forward to club a young guy and then jumping back in a girlish way afraid he was going to get hit back.

I 'll bet the same news staff at NBT even agrees with Samak that only one student was killed in 92, students they maybe even knew themselves or even knew some of those who killed then...

Edited August 31, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[scyriacus]

Good post. If the PAD wanted to be a credible peoples movement they would have done well to dump Sondhi and Panlop from the begining just as the PPP couldn't have chosen a worse front man than Samak

i believe, neither was 'chosen'. sondhi seems to be the self declared leader and samak was ordered by toxin.

[LaoPo]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

His staff is having problems getting paid but are hanging on for what they bellieve in.

Part of this wiki crap has been reviewed by the Baker Bots Thaksin I didn't do it! World Tour and that other firm he hired in Hong Kong.

Of course the first thing they did was to rewrite Thaksin's wiki page.

Tony: Wikipedia is an open source, so why don't you rewrite it if it's not true ?

If T.'s staff can do it, you can, can't you ?

It's so easy Tony to shout now that this Wikipedia ''crap'' has been reviewed; why don't you come with FACTS that this crap is non-factual ?

And, BBC's comments are also untrue and non-factual ?

"They (PAD - Sondi etc.) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7584369.stm

It's too easy Tony what you claim, too easy.

LaoPo

What I type on Thaivisa remains on Thaivisa, unedited, 99.9% of the time.

Why would I want to spend time rewriting a Wikipedia article when the whole thing is messed up with on a regular basis.

Look at the edit wars here especially towards the bottom of the page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thaksin_...icle_cleaned_up

If you want to know something about the world of Thaksin, Thaivisa is often # 1 in Google search results and wiki #2 or vice versa. So we have Thaivisapedia (with mostly all of the news articles since 2003-4? just by doing a search of topics with Thaksin in the title.

One of many examples from wiki : *You seem to have erased the few paragraphs on his family's business and political background in Chiang Mai.

*Even if Thaksin never entered politics, he would still be remembered as one of Thailand's the most successful entrepreneurs and a key figure in the growth of Thailand's fast growing telecom sector. Devoting just 3 sentences to his business career is inappropriate.

Patiwat, how much does he pay you? He would be remembered as the most evil public figure in Thailand who personally represents how successful a cheater/lier/exploiter can achieve by the power of money. How a civil officer with an insight knowledge about government IT development plan-a national sattlelite concession, opened a company based on that insight knowledge, then cheated on his foreign business partner, can be remembered as a successful entrepreneur???? Pleeeeeaaaasssse!!! Is that a kind of life worth living??

Remind you of a particular forum?

Thank you Tony.

This is going messy and the point is that I was talking the PAD/Sondhi, whilst the subject has now changed to T. and that's, for me, history.

All the talk about T. doesn't make sense anymore since that book is closed since his exile; it's only of interest for history and the Thai Court rooms.

The details you supplied are new to me and I didn't know there was such a war going on behind the curtains of Wiki.

A kind of dirty war only of interest to the PRO & CONTRA parties, writing about Mr. T.; it is hardly 'food' for thoughts for normal individuals and I suggest we leave it here since we probably will never learn the exact truth.

The party ''Patiwat'' from your link certainly does a lot of writing on Wikipedia since he changed the content thousands of times ALSO at Sondhi's page....wonder who he/she is.

It seems so dirty to me that I can't even tell if this chap is Pro or Contra T. and/or Sondhi but maybe you know ?

I think it was Simon43 who wrote elsewhere that it is a dream to think that once Samak is gone (IF he goes now...or later), the sky will become blue and the country will be free of corruption; well, I suppose we all know that THAT is a Utopia...

I merely wanted to express the danger for the vision Sondhi is talking about....back to power for the Elite and Military, away from a free vote by a free Thai, un-educated as he might be, but NOT STUPID !

And THAT, Tony, is something Sondhi and his friends are probably forgetting, despite all the people he found to protest, paid or unpaid, that the protesters are still a minority, allowed to shout and block Government House, airports/railroads but don't forget about the:

SILENT MAJORITY...nobody can fool them in the long run, not even Sondhi; the distance between the Elite/aristocracy and the man-in-the-soi is too big and one day the man-in-the-soi will find out he was fooled by another crook...again.

l'Histoire se répète

LaoPo

[scyriacus]

Wait a Minute! THE Government did not ,and does not need to use Tactics! IT IS the Government elected by a majority in a Democracy.It IS therefore Legitimized and Legal.It has already the supporting Mandate of the overwhelming public.And has seemingly thus far stood by the laws of the land and even Bent over backwards to afford peaceful resolve.If this were most other countries the Legal force would have been Hard!The Government is NOT a Faction it IS The Government!

wait a minute! this government is not legal. like you are not allowed to open a bank account for someone else (maybe a terrorist) you are not allowed to play the pm for your puppetmaster (maybe a bailjumping warranted fugitive) have you people all forgotten 'honesty', 'integrity', 'reliability', 'responsibility'? all words samak obviously doesn't know and never knew. his 'credo' seems to be 'greed', 'power', 'treachery', 'callousness' & 'corruption'. 'helterskelter' (what a name!) can use as much big words as mr josef goebbels, it does not make them better. i sometimes suspect, he wants to 'liberate' thailand as gwb did 'liberate' iraq. a corrupt regime, allowing you to make best business is not, what 'democracy' means. it means = "the people rule" and not = "rule the people". when will you ever learn?

[scyriacus]

It seems very clear that PAD is insisting on a government that is 70% appointed by the military. They have been quoted over and over again saying that. If that is not the case, PAD should deny their support of that idea and clarify what kind of government they propose.

i really don't like this 70:30 bullsh.... but it is a thai idea for thailand and needs to be discussed seriously. anyway better than: 70% for the most impudent vote buyer, 30% for the sincere but toothless 'opposition'. pad has clarified one simple thing: samak go home! they need not add anything, coz they are no party, no contender, no government, just watchdogs (which need to be closely watched)

[LaoPo]

scyriacus:

Why on earth are you so unbelievable rude to other posters ?

It seems that other posters can do and write no-good and that only YOU possess the ultimate wisdom above all members.

Please, try to be a gentleman.

Mutual discussion is also about respect for each other, no matter the view one has.

LaoPo

[ando]

So it appears the current situation hasn't changed as a result of the joint house parliamentary discussion on Sunday.

I did read ob BBC that any possibility of a dissolution would not be likely until after the budget is passed on Wednesday.

And, can anyone confirm that the protesters have left government house?

[britmaveric]

scyriacus - Seriously your posts are mental mate!!! Kai Jai????

Democracy is good, and the thai people have spoken and its supports the PPP and the arrogant corrupt PAD need to go home.

If they want to protest - they do so in a reasonable fashion, not close/destroy airports, invade govt buildings/police stations and create chaos.

Edited August 31, 2008 by britmaveric

[tropo]

is there any way to block a person's posts from being viewable?

Yes, it's easy to do:

Click "my controls" on the top of the page then...

Scroll down the menu items on the left to "options".

Click "manage ignored users"

Then place "scyriacus" in the "add a new user to your list" box and click "update ignored users".

After this you'll be able to enjoy a Scyriacus free thread.

Edited August 31, 2008 by tropo

[britmaveric]

Tropo :D

[endure]

OK, folks - that's enough. If you can't be civil with each other best you don't post at all.

"2) Posting another members personal details, photos or web site details is forbidden and will result in being banned. Excessive, aggressive posts against other members, moderators and admin; or flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is best defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, rants, and/or for launching personal attacks, insulting, being hateful, useless criticism, name calling, swearing and other bad behavior or comments meant to incite anger."

If you feel that you're being flamed hit the 'Report' button.

[tropo]

Democracy is good, and the thai people have spoken and its supports the PPP and the arrogant corrupt PAD need to go home.

If they want to protest - they do so in a reasonable fashion, not close/destroy airports, invade govt buildings/police stations and create chaos.

Nicely put! Any other way is a step backwards.

[blaze]

... He's not better than T. maybe he is better, coz t. is out and s. is in?

** Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled. cheating coward ! clever and cheating seems to be the same here, but why coward?

*** Sondhi's income skyrocketed as a result of his political activism. Revenues of his media companies increased by no less than 215 million baht (approx $6 million US) a month from the start of his protests to early 2006. are you serious? 6 mio us$ per month increase, he should be a better leader than tax-sin

seriously you should consider to change your 'heroe' from t. to s. you seem to worship money........

Mr. scyriacus:

I didn't write that; it's from Wikipedia which is an open resource kind of media. If you have problems what's written there, please go to Wikipedia and change the facts.

I didn't create the facts.

Mr. Sondhi did and he's as much a cheater and crook like T. whom I never called a heroe or hero.....

Sometimes, especially these days scryiacus, the truth hurts....

Maybe you should read this before giving comment:

Bankruptcy and anti-Democrat period (1997-2001)

Following the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Sondhi's satellite and publishing businesses faced a meltdown. His WCS was sold to the CP Group before it was renamed TA Orange and later became True Move. The Manager Group was saddled with THB 20 billion in debt but only THB 4 billion in equity. The Manager Group's holding company alone had liabilities of THB 6 billion. Manager Media had Bt4.7 billion in debt. Sondhi was personally in debt for THB 1.5 billion. Sondhi ended up declaring himself bankrupt for three years. This meant that his THB 1.5 billion debt could be claimed from whatever was in his personal account for a span three years, rather than having to repay the debt over 15 or 20 years as earlier scheduled.

Sondhi's companies were also investigated for irregular inter-company transactions. IEC guaranteed a THB 1.2 billion baht loan by M group in 1996, but never disclosed this guarantee to the public. M Group later defaulted on the loan, sending IEC into bankruptcy[6]

Auditors of Eastern Printing, Sondhi's SET-listed printing company, noted that its huge losses partially stemmed from lendings to associated companies and the establishment of off-balance accounts to related publishing companies. For example, in its 2000 financial statement, Sondhi-linked companies Asia Inc and FRYE Smith (USA) Co owed Bt59.86 million and Bt125.79 million respectively to Eastern Printing. Likewise, according to its 2000 financial statements, Manager Media lent Bt1.061 billion to related publishers, under guarantee from Sondhi.[7]

The Manager Group furiously attacked the Democrat-led government over its management of the economic crisis during its time in office from late 1997 to 2000. This included scathing attacks on Finance Minister Tharin Nimmanhaeminda for his emergency financing agreements with the IMF and Deputy Prime Minister Sawit Bhodhivihok for his policy of privatizing the state-owned electricity sector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondhi_Limtho....281997-2001.29

Nice chap, this Sondhi, isn't he ?

Oh...why a coward? Because he declared HIMSELF bankrupt for a period of 3 years and did not pay back his debts, leaving others in trouble; that's a coward, especially if you have a big mouth over other Thai who cheated and corrupted.

Be a fair man scyriacus and study Sondhi a bit more and you will find out WHAT'S behind the protests of the PAD !!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE....? My @arse.

POWER TO SONDHI because:

"They (PAD) have now refined their argument to propose rural voters in Thailand are too poorly educated to be allowed to elect a parliament, and that it should be a largely appointed body instead."

Don't let yourself fooled by this man Sondhi, he might turn out worse than T. and Samak....

LaoPo

Lenin used the term 'useful idiots' to describe the people who would support the Russian Revolution without understanding it's true nature and intent- sadly, I believe this the case to be with many supporters of the PAD. Is Sondhi genuinely concerned with ridding the country of corruption? If so then why has he not done what is happening in Mexico City right now, in Carracas two years ago- organized mass demonstrations- not against a particular man- not demanding the resignation of the government- but rather (constructively) demanding and end to corruption- where are the mass demos in Bkk demanding an end to corruption in the civil service- in the courts- in the police- an end to ALL tax cheats- Where is the demand for a full accounting of all government expenditures under the Sarayuth government- the demand for a full accounting of just how the military spent the windfall budget allotted to it under that government... a demand that ALL those who supported the drug wars be taken to task?

I think that many of the PAD people do believe that they are fighting the good fight- many of them- but they just don't realize that Sondhi/Chamlong's fight is not theirs.

[tropo]

I think that many of the PAD people do believe that they are fighting the good fight-

Of course they do, but no one explained to them that in a democracy you don't fight for change, you vote for it. It's not a perfect system by any means, but the alternatives are worse.

[ando]

Lenin used the term 'useful idiots' to describe the people who would support the Russian Revolution without understanding it's true nature and intent- sadly, I believe this the case to be with many supporters of the PAD. Is Sondhi genuinely concerned with ridding the country of corruption? If so then why has he not done what is happening in Mexico City right now, in Carracas two years ago- organized mass demonstrations- not against a particular man- not demanding the resignation of the government- but rather (constructively) demanding and end to corruption- where are the mass demos in Bkk demanding an end to corruption in the civil service- in the courts- in the police- an end to ALL tax cheats- Where is the demand for a full accounting of all government expenditures under the Sarayuth government- the demand for a full accounting of just how the military spent the windfall budget allotted to it under that government... a demand that ALL those who supported the drug wars be taken to task?

I think that many of the PAD people do believe that they are fighting the good fight- many of them- but they just don't realize that Sondhi/Chamlong's fight is not theirs.

Very well put. I agree totally.

If PAD are allowed to have there way there will be far less accountability.

It appears many rank and file PAD supporters have become so obsessed with individuals like Thaksin and Samak that they have lost sight of the underlying cause they are supposed to be fighting for.

[blaze]

Wait a Minute! THE Government did not ,and does not need to use Tactics! IT IS the Government elected by a majority in a Democracy.It IS therefore Legitimized and Legal.It has already the supporting Mandate of the overwhelming public.And has seemingly thus far stood by the laws of the land and even Bent over backwards to afford peaceful resolve.If this were most other countries the Legal force would have been Hard!The Government is NOT a Faction it IS The Government!

wait a minute! this government is not legal. like you are not allowed to open a bank account for someone else (maybe a terrorist) you are not allowed to play the pm for your puppetmaster (maybe a bailjumping warranted fugitive) have you people all forgotten 'honesty', 'integrity', 'reliability', 'responsibility'? all words samak obviously doesn't know and never knew. his 'credo' seems to be 'greed', 'power', 'treachery', 'callousness' & 'corruption'. 'helterskelter' (what a name!) can use as much big words as mr josef goebbels, it does not make them better. i sometimes suspect, he wants to 'liberate' thailand as gwb did 'liberate' iraq. a corrupt regime, allowing you to make best business is not, what 'democracy' means. it means = "the people rule" and not = "rule the people". when will you ever learn?

Who finally determines whether or not a government in Thailand is legal? Sondhi? You? As long as institutions of even more gravitus than the court have determined this government is legal, then that's what we have to live with. And by royal proclamation, as well as by the fact that the courts have not ruled this government to be illigitamte (yet) then you can protest it's policies, it's principles (or lack thereof) but not it's legitimacy. (using legitimacy in the strictest sense of the word) and legal right to govern..

Edited August 31, 2008 by blaze

[scyriacus]

scyriacus:

Why on earth are you so unbelievable rude to other posters ?

It seems that other posters can do and write no-good and that only YOU possess the ultimate wisdom above all members.

Please, try to be a gentleman. Mutual discussion is also about respect for each other, no matter the view one has.LaoPo

dear laopo, i agree on 'mutual respect'. i never intend to be 'rude' to other posters. i am very engaged here, coz this is the place i've choosen to live, enjoy & endure. please understand, that i am not naturally aggressive. in fact, i rarely start an argument. but i am rather sensitive in reading trolling, flaming, sometimes outright stupid posts. and then i try to respond accordingly. try to use the words of the original poster, try to make him look in the mirror to see his ugly self. if passion drives me too far. i am ready to apologize (hope it happens less and lesser). if i would have some kind of second conscience here, we could avoid much irritation. but most people who provoke me tend to fight on and on, and my weakness is, that i am tireless and ardent of my good intentions. if perhaps you would agree to help me, lets give it a try. i definitely don't posess any more wisdom and knowledge than any other member on the forum. just a rather strong conviction. what can i do? i detest all weapons, violence, corruption, people with too much money. do you think i'm wrong? tell me about my worst argument (your opinion) and i'm eager to explain to you.

[sriracha john]

Thai government promotes Thaksin classmate in military reshuffle

BANGKOK: The Thai government on Sunday announced that a former classmate of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra will be the new military supreme commander, a largely ceremonial role in the influential armed forces.

The naming of General Songkitti Jaggabatara, the current armed forces joint chief of staff, comes as protesters besiege Bangkok's government compound, forcing the military to deny they will stage a coup.

Songkitti will take over on October 1 after the retirement of Boonsrang Niumpradit, the government's public relations department said in a statement. Songkitti went to pre-cadet school with Thaksin and army chief Anupong Paojinda, the most powerful military official in the country.

The annual reshuffle became a point of tension under Thaksin, a former police officer, because of fears he was trying to control the armed forces by promoting allies, mainly people who were in his class at military school.

Thaksin was overthrown in a coup in September 2006 by now-retired army chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin, but his ally Samak Sundaravej was elected last December, angering some elements in the military who despised Thaksin.

Anupong has twice denied that a coup is imminent since anti-government demonstrators rampaged through Bangkok's historic district last Tuesday and barricaded themselves in at Government House.

Also in the reshuffle, Lieutenant General Prayuth Janorcha-the army commander responsible for Bangkok and central areas and an ally of Anupong-becomes the army joint chief of staff. Lieutenant General Viroj Buacharoeun, who is responsible for the country's three insurgency-hit far southern provinces, will become Anupong's assistant.

- Agence France Presse

[KireB]

I think that many of the PAD people do believe that they are fighting the good fight-

Of course they do, but no one explained to them that in a democracy you don't fight for change, you vote for it. It's not a perfect system by any means, but the alternatives are worse.

Democracy means that you can demonstrate without being afraid to go to jail (or worse).

Democracy means equal rights for everyone and not just for a small, rich, group

Democracy means the opportunity to think critically.

Democracy means the chance to be assertive.

Democracy means fair elections, a valid and reliable choice of government.

You really think that Thailand is a democracy?

[scyriacus]

is there any way to block a person's posts from being viewable?

Yes, it's easy to do: Click "my controls" on the top of the page then...

Scroll down the menu items on the left to "options". Click "manage ignored users"

Then place "tropo"* in the "add a new user to your list" box and click "update ignored users". *or any other user, quite easy and comfortable

After this you'll be able to enjoy a tropo free thread.

much easier would be to switch off your computer, that's failsafe.

[sriracha john]

Voices against Thai PM grow louder

BANGKOK // Samak Sundaravej, Thailand’s embattled prime minister, remained defiant yesterday in the face of growing calls for his resignation from protesters who spent their sixth day camped on his office grounds and MPs during an emergency session of parliament.

"It is time for the prime minister to review his role and behaviour," said Jurin Laksanavisit, an MP for the opposition Democrat Party, during the parliament session. "You should ask yourself whether you should maintain the premiership."

Samak called the emergency session when it appeared protesters were not about to give up their siege of his office. Thousands of protesters have been occupying key government buildings, including the formal seat of power, Government House, for nearly a week.

They accuse Samak of being a puppet for Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister ousted in a military coup two years ago and who recently fled to London to escape corruption charges at home. Thaksin is expected to file for political asylum in the UK.

In the past few days, the protests have spread to other parts the country. Three key airports in the south have been closed as a result, while the national railway workers union is on strike, severely disrupting train travel throughout Thailand.

There has been a significant dip in the number of tourists entering the country, according to government officials. Share values on the Thai stock exchange have fallen by nearly 25 per cent since the recent wave of protests began three months ago.

Earlier yesterday, Samak refused to bow to public pressure, insisting in a televised broadcast that he would not resign. "I, the prime minister, have come to office in the appropriate way and I won’t resign," he said, referring to last year’s election that was won by his People’s Power Party. "I will not back down. I will rule this country and will lead it through all of its problems," Samak said.

But most analysts now believe the writing is on the wall for the abrasive leader. "It is only a matter of time before he is forced to resign, probably in the next few days," said Kavi Chongkittavorn, a political analyst with The Nation, an English-language daily newspaper. "He’s grasping at straws and has no alternative but to resign gracefully," he said.

Mr Kavi said it was likely Samak was being advised to step down by senior members of the army and the ruling elite and the parliamentary debate could give him the opportunity to make a graceful exit.

"Having heard what the MPs have had to say [in the parliamentary debate], he can then offer his resignation in the interests of the country."

While there has been little violence during the past week, a skirmish broke out on Friday evening when over 1,000 riot police tried to overwhelm the protesters at Government House, throwing tear-gas into the crowd.

A few people suffered minor injuries and the police were quickly ordered to retreat.

With the pressure mounting on Samak to resign, protest leaders have become more belligerent and confident.

- Larry Jagan, Foreign Correspondent, The National / 2008-08-31