PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[lifeisrandom]

samak is waiting now for a phone call he knows is coming that will suggest he retire from politics

[animatic]

Apology accepted, with the caveat;

If you must quote, make sure

a ) read it all

b ) quote in FULL context.

I thought I was in an American Presidential campaign for an instant.

It was a VERY unpleasant feeling....

Edited August 26, 2008 by animatic

[thaigene2]

I have no idea if it has been mentioned before (didn't bother reading all 17 pages) but you can get frequent updates in English at ASTV (ASTV1 and TOC)

opalhort

Maybe you should read the 17 pages instead of wearing your special shirt - and watching your brainwashing tv programme?

Thanks for your advise.

I only mentioned ASTV as an alternative to other local TV stations because they have frequent updates in English. Of course ASTV / TOC is heavily pro PAD but if you watch a typical Thai tv station and ASTV, add all the info together and filter it, then anybody with some common sense can figure out the truth or at least something close to the truth.

opalhort

Good point - sorry for my insinuation.

[ThaiPauly]

Why is it so difficult to convince ordinary people (including TV members) that the the PAD wants nothing more than honest and fair politicians who genuinely have the Thai people's interests best at heart.

Maybe because today the whole day on Thai TV is was clear to see how

hooded PAD thugs have threatened people with their metal bars and sticks,

several people were seen having beaten up by those thugs as well.

So why then was ONLY ONE LOCATION the TV station

done with masks and iron bars and other weapons?

Yet the government house take over had NONE OF THAT?

Yet the finance ministry had none of that,

the other locations had NO WEAPONS.

I bet it was because they were NOT PAD.

There were some PAD members present as previously announced,

but the actual storming violent mob was plants to embarrass PAD

and do it on the world stage.

PAD is still in the other locations including government house.

Why did the police so easily arrest the 'masked armed PAD attackers'

only one hour after the take over? Propaganda value.

And easily take them a way, where we never hear from them.

Propaganda value again.

Pretty simple they weren't PAD it was a set up to discredit them,

with a few PAD small fish thrown in to be released publiclly.

It actually is a pretty smart propaganda strategy.

Discredit PAD early in the day and then do a big PR push

'PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada.

And a few people here seem to be spouting chapter and verse JUST this line.

Attempting to convince the farangs to spread the word about how bad PAD is.

Only takes a few instigators in a crowd to brand the WHOLE crowd.

I think this TV station take over smells of entrapment big time.

TELL B.S. LONG AND LOUD ENOUGH AND B.S. BECOMES THE TRUTH.

Kuhn Thaksin knew this one well.

"PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada."

Well you said it.

Nice try. NO I DID NOT SAY THAT as you quoted me.

you need to use ... before to show you edited out something.

instead of taking it out of context and making it seem that's what I said.

You work for Karl Rove, hhhmm??

I ACTUALLY said

It actually is a pretty smart propaganda strategy.

Discredit PAD early in the day and then do a big PR push

'PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada.

It is a comment on propaganda and manipulation of the Thai people.

And us it seems too.

I won't allow you to twist my words for your mean ends.

it is bad form to misquote you by way of manipulating yoiur post

Edited August 26, 2008 by ThaiPauly

[opalhort]

Who know's who is behind PAD

This is exactly what we have been discussing in our family today. Who foots the bill for all the PAD activities?

As for the PPP I guess it is obvious who takes care.....

opalhort

[onethailand]

A good article about more of what might lie behind today's events from the Asia Times Online here, and some extra deconstruction of the article on Bangkok Pundit's site.

Just as a point of interest - Asia Times is/was owned by Sondhi.

(edited - not 100% sure of its ownership now)

Edited August 26, 2008 by onethailand

[percy2]

Just for the record - is today Tuesday or Wednesday?

I only ask because my calendar, computer, and the Thai Visa clock says it is Tuesday, but the Nation reports are all claiming it is Wednesday, and I'm well confused.

.... unless the Nation has been forwarned about events due to happen tomorrow?

Gaz

It is definitely Tuesday hereabouts Gaz.

Glad you caught up

[who]

gymrat's muscles must all be in his head as he is obviously an ignoramus.

The French people protested and ended the misrule and cruelty of the French monarchy, the American colonials protested and kicked out the mean and exploitive British crown and the Cuban people protested and kicked out an American financed despot and thug, to mention just three instances where protest worked on the poitical scene. The gays in New York protested police brutality and got rid of the neo-Nazis on the police force and the black people in the south of the United States protested and ended wanton, indiscriminate murder by the white supremists to cite two instances of civil redress.

Louis XVI was a kindly fuddy-duddy much beloved by the French people who referred to him as "papa"; The American revolution was a power grab by American millionairs from British millionairs; If Bautista got any money from America it was from the Italian New York mafia. I know little about "the Stone Wall Riots" but I'll bet not one policeman lost his job. The situation of the Blacks in the south was eased by northern white liberal millionairs, e.g. Stevenson and the Kennedys who for some reason had quilt complexes.

[Thai at Heart]

Why is it so difficult to convince ordinary people (including TV members) that the the PAD wants nothing more than honest and fair politicians who genuinely have the Thai people's interests best at heart.

Maybe because today the whole day on Thai TV is was clear to see how

hooded PAD thugs have threatened people with their metal bars and sticks,

several people were seen having beaten up by those thugs as well.

So why then was ONLY ONE LOCATION the TV station

done with masks and iron bars and other weapons?

Yet the government house take over had NONE OF THAT?

Yet the finance ministry had none of that,

the other locations had NO WEAPONS.

I bet it was because they were NOT PAD.

There were some PAD members present as previously announced,

but the actual storming violent mob was plants to embarrass PAD

and do it on the world stage.

PAD is still in the other locations including government house.

Why did the police so easily arrest the 'masked armed PAD attackers'

only one hour after the take over? Propaganda value.

And easily take them a way, where we never hear from them.

Propaganda value again.

Pretty simple they weren't PAD it was a set up to discredit them,

with a few PAD small fish thrown in to be released publiclly.

It actually is a pretty smart propaganda strategy.

Discredit PAD early in the day and then do a big PR push

'PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada.

And a few people here seem to be spouting chapter and verse JUST this line.

Attempting to convince the farangs to spread the word about how bad PAD is.

Only takes a few instigators in a crowd to brand the WHOLE crowd.

I think this TV station take over smells of entrapment big time.

TELL B.S. LONG AND LOUD ENOUGH AND B.S. BECOMES THE TRUTH.

Kuhn Thaksin knew this one well.

"PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada."

Well you said it.

Nice try. NO I DID NOT SAY THAT as you quoted me.

you need to use ... before to show you edited out something.

instead of taking it out of context and making it seem that's what I said.

You work for Karl Rove, hhhmm??

I ACTUALLY said

It actually is a pretty smart propaganda strategy.

Discredit PAD early in the day and then do a big PR push

'PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada.

It is a comment on propaganda and manipulation of the Thai people.

And us it seems too.

I won't allow you to twist my words for your mean ends.

it is bad form to misquote you by way of manipulating yoiur post

Apologies given already.

[lifeisrandom]

that article seems unrealistic

its says the royalists and military are against the PAD and pro Samak

um ok if you insist

so sondi is just off the plot has no back up and is just causing all the trouble and everyone hates him and the PAD

um ok it you insist

btw you know that BP is a huge Thaskin sympathizer right? not to say that everything he says is false and i would stop short of calling him a propagandist - but he is 100% one sided and selective - definitely not a non biased source

Edited August 26, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[sriracha john]

thick as shit

Stop flaming, please.

Indeed.

[who]

NBT - is seen as little more than a vassal of the govt and or Thaskin & Co.

In any normal democracy the govt would have resigned ages ago.

However the opposition seem to be little different from the govt.

THis is a country ruled from tghe top down and this represents a struggle not for the people but between which of thwe ruling clans will run the corrupt system.

That has been, is, and probably always will be, the natural human condition.

[Meerkat]

A good article about more of what might lie behind today's events from the Asia Times Online here, and some extra deconstruction of the article on Bangkok Pundit's site.

Just as a point of interest - Asia Times is/was owned by Sondhi.

(edited - not 100% sure of its ownership now)

Very good point to raise. It hasn't been Sondhi owned since he went belly-up post '97.

Worrying thing for me about the piece is the mention of Saprang; not one of my favourite power-brokers.

[Bangyai]

Why is it so difficult to convince ordinary people (including TV members) that the the PAD wants nothing more than honest and fair politicians who genuinely have the Thai people's interests best at heart.

Maybe because today the whole day on Thai TV is was clear to see how

hooded PAD thugs have threatened people with their metal bars and sticks,

several people were seen having beaten up by those thugs as well.

So why then was ONLY ONE LOCATION the TV station

done with masks and iron bars and other weapons?

Yet the government house take over had NONE OF THAT?

Yet the finance ministry had none of that,

the other locations had NO WEAPONS.

I bet it was because they were NOT PAD.

There were some PAD members present as previously announced,

but the actual storming violent mob was plants to embarrass PAD

and do it on the world stage.

PAD is still in the other locations including government house.

Why did the police so easily arrest the 'masked armed PAD attackers'

only one hour after the take over? Propaganda value.

And easily take them a way, where we never hear from them.

Propaganda value again.

Pretty simple they weren't PAD it was a set up to discredit them,

with a few PAD small fish thrown in to be released publiclly.

It actually is a pretty smart propaganda strategy.

Discredit PAD early in the day and then do a big PR push

'PAD are violent fascists out to destroy Thailand yada yada yada.

And a few people here seem to be spouting chapter and verse JUST this line.

Attempting to convince the farangs to spread the word about how bad PAD is.

Only takes a few instigators in a crowd to brand the WHOLE crowd.

I think this TV station take over smells of entrapment big time.

TELL B.S. LONG AND LOUD ENOUGH AND B.S. BECOMES THE TRUTH.

Kuhn Thaksin knew this one well.

Sondhi knows it too and is a lot less subtle. Peoples Alliance for Democracy ????

DEMOCRACY ??? Why do they have to use this word ? For the same reason we had Democratic Kampuchea, it adds a very thin veneer to something quite the opposite and gives it the odour of decency. A bit like a pig in a wallow dabbing Channel No 5 behind its ears.

[cmsally]

A lot of slanging matches going on here, no one really putting the cards on the table.

For what it's worth here is my hunch.

I think Anupong and his military faction have lined up with the govt.

I think that probably leaves Saprang hanging out with the PAD.

This means if there is military intervention it could get really weird.

The wild card is that there may have been a deal cut within the PPP and the Anupong faction (and maybe the Democrats) for some political realignment. This could involve Samak losing his job.

The PAD sideshow is meanwhile running along with its various interests and egos, and a suitable final episode has to be written.

[who]

Who know's who is behind PAD

Who knows who is behind PPP

If the names of those behind the scenes were published they would be unfamiliar to falangs and even to almost all Thais. The ruling class in Thailand stays well out of the newspapers. They have all the power and pull the strings but they are very long strings. Tahksin was not one of them.

[onethailand]

Very good point to raise. It hasn't been Sondhi owned since he went belly-up post '97.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. It was Asia Time's print edition that went belly-up in '97, not Manager Group, nor its online operation. You will note that on the site, they make reference to its origin, but say absolutely nothing about its current ownership - I'm sure you can agree that this in itself is a red flag.

I can do a little digging on this - a couple of my friends worked for the print edition. It is interesting, however, that the article you linked was not exactly glowing about the PAD

And I agree with you about Saprang.

[animatic]

gymrat's muscles must all be in his head as he is obviously an ignoramus.

The French people protested and ended the misrule and cruelty of the French monarchy, the American colonials protested and kicked out the mean and exploitive British crown and the Cuban people protested and kicked out an American financed despot and thug, to mention just three instances where protest worked on the poitical scene. The gays in New York protested police brutality and got rid of the neo-Nazis on the police force and the black people in the south of the United States protested and ended wanton, indiscriminate murder by the white supremists to cite two instances of civil redress.

Louis XVI was a kindly fuddy-duddy much beloved by the French people who referred to him as "papa";

The American revolution was a power grab by American millionairs from British millionairs;

If Bautista got any money from America it was from the Italian New York mafia. I know little about "the Stone Wall Riots" but I'll bet not one policeman lost his job.

The situation of the Blacks in the south was eased by northern white liberal millionairs, e.g. Stevenson and the Kennedys who for some reason had quilt complexes.

I lived in France for ten years Papa the old fuddy duddy is not something

any French person ever mentioned to me. And I knew three historians.

And memerabilia and book collectors from this period.

Early on he was liked as the king, but he made copious bad decisions

and quickly lost favor with most. Added to the severe weather related

crop failings and food was scarce and pre-planning was non-existant.

M.A. she never said let them eat cake. The 'cake' at the time was more like

sailor's hardtack, not a good choice, but you could live in it.

----------------------------

millionairs.. what millionaires? All three of them.

One, Robert Morris, financed letters of credit, and paid cash.

But that didn't prevent severe hardship on the battlefields,

and eventually them needing France to also supply financing.

'''''''''''''''''''

The first person in America who could be called a millionaire might

have been Jabez Bacon, a store owner and land speculator in Woodbury,

Connecticut, circa 1750. This evaluation seems to be based on a net

worth that included estimates of the value of land in the Bacon land

company. Probably a better case for status as a cash millionaire can

be made for Robert Morris of Philadelphia, a merchant and banker, best

known as the "financier of the Revolution." Morris arranged for credit

that paid for the Revolution, and contributed from his personal

fortune to support the revolutionary cause. He was a signer of The

Declaration, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution, and

served in Congress. However, he died a pauper, three million dollars

in debt.

The three men usually named as the first millionaires are Stephen

Girard, a French immigrant who settled in Philadelphia and founded a

shipping and banking empire, Thomas Perkins, a Bostonian, and John

Jacob Astor, a German immigrant who made millions in import-export and

finance, all of them involved in the China Trade.

Thus, early in the 19th Century there were barely a handful of men who

could be called millionaires in the United States.

''''''''''''''''''''

So you have ONE maybe two millionaires then and only ONE involved.

And at great risk to his fortune at that.

Before you talk about the American Revolution try reading

1776 and John Adams by David McCullough and Benjamin Franklin: An American Life by Walter Isaacson

Worth reading one way or another.

---------------------------

Batista was indeed financed by big mob money, casinos and smuggling,

but also sugar producers rum producers, and both of those kicked back

buckets in cash for better tax rates and protectionist government policies.

----------------------------

Lived in NYC for 5 years,

some of the Stonewall cops were reassigned and demoted,

mostly for letting it get out of hand, and to prevent revenge

attacks by them.

Quilt complexes???

Do you mean Adlai Stevenson?

Certainly Robert Kennedy instructed the Justice department to investigate

and prosecute the KKK and other persecutors of the afro community.

Being Irish he knew of the history of abuse their families had suffered

for similar bigoted reasons, and knew that stopping it was for the good of all.

Sorry, but your responses were WAY too simplistic, while semi-factual in an very edited way.

Yes as noted above; PAD is just the point-man of a long drawn out battle,

they are just out to create noise and see what shakes out,.

The real power is quite silent and waiting patiently with 50 year outlooks.

Edited August 26, 2008 by animatic

[vahack]

This is not my country

and its not my place to

take a political side.

That being said,

Thai people don't understand

how democracy works.

Actually thats my Thai wife's quote.

But being American,

where we have a working democracy

AND a totally corrupt government,

I know she's right.

If a group of people

don't like the elected government

it is their duty to campaign against it

and win the next election.

The US democrats have been

campaigning for nearly 4 years.

And if they can convince

a majority of the people to vote

for their candidate, they'll win.

I haven't seen any protests,

attacks on TV stations, or blockades.

Americans are smarter.

We use the press and the

power of information.

Democracy is a tool that works.

Protesting is idiotic.

Unless you're too old to wait

for the next election lol

[Jingthing]

I don't see the appeal of PAD, but if I was Thai and I wanted real political change, I too would be very frustrated. Just wait for the next election? Yeah, that will change things here. Does anyone believe that?

This country really is looking like a political basket case.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[onethailand]

GEEZ...

I'm just watching NBT now - they are broadcasting the first video of the huge commotion that took place when the lady anchor was escorted from NBT's studios - and the protesters are way the heck overboard, though fortunately no violence. There must've been 30 police protecting her and escorting her out.

The anchor then did her job - hair a bit disheveled - until 9 or 10 pm tonight - at one of the makeshift studios. Full credit to her - that was clearly a very harrowing experience.

[stooshie]

These people are a pain in the arse. Protests never solve anything.

Really?

....

Emily Pankhurst,

Nelson Mandella,

Ghandi,

Martin Luther King,

....

....

....

etc., etc.,

[lifeisrandom]

PAD not looking too good on those videos

[stooshie]

These people are a pain in the arse. Protests never solve anything.

Really?

....

Emily Pankhurst,

Nelson Mandella,

Ghandi,

Martin Luther King, etc., etc., etc., never solved anything?

[Jingthing]

These people are a pain in the arse. Protests never solve anything.

Really?

....

Emily Pankhurst,

Nelson Mandella,

Ghandi,

Martin Luther King,

....

....

....

etc., etc.,

When the People Power movement in the Philippines toppled their government, they had huge domestic and international support, and a very coherent message, and for most people they were OBVIOUSLY and unambiguously the good guys fighting the bad guys.

PAD ain't that.

[Meerkat]

Very good point to raise. It hasn't been Sondhi owned since he went belly-up post '97.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. It was Asia Time's print edition that went belly-up in '97, not Manager Group, nor its online operation. You will note that on the site, they make reference to its origin, but say absolutely nothing about its current ownership - I'm sure you can agree that this in itself is a red flag.

I can do a little digging on this - a couple of my friends worked for the print edition. It is interesting, however, that the article you linked was not exactly glowing about the PAD

And I agree with you about Saprang.

Again a good point; I'd appreciate the digging (and if you find anything interesting please PM me as well as posting it on this thread).

Crispin writes well though - certainly with more depth than I've experienced from the English-language print media here. I'd be surprised if Sondhi still has any editorial muscle there.

[dunque]

It is always best to be very wary of any pressure group with 'democracy' in its name - it usually has aims which are the antithesis of what most people understand as democracy. As with all pressure groups/NGOs/political parties etc, get rid of the difficult/irrelevant part in your name - and then do something completely different

[pazu]

gymrat's muscles must all be in his head as he is obviously an ignoramus.

The French people protested and ended the misrule and cruelty of the French monarchy, the American colonials protested and kicked out the mean and exploitive British crown and the Cuban people protested and kicked out an American financed despot and thug, to mention just three instances where protest worked on the poitical scene. The gays in New York protested police brutality and got rid of the neo-Nazis on the police force and the black people in the south of the United States protested and ended wanton, indiscriminate murder by the white supremists to cite two instances of civil redress.

And the PAD protested again and again to overthrow a government elected by the Thai people who showed again and again that they preferred to have a leader who was a friend of Thaksin.

[animatic]

And lest not forget the Stonewall riots

and ongoing protests that sprang from it.

I don't think those two communities

will dispute the value of protest.

de·moc·ra·cy

1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power

is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents

under a free electoral system.

Well vote buying on a massive scale excludes Thailand.

2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

So technically they have one, regardless of the mis-functioning of it

3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.

Formally all Thais have the same rights, in practice fuh geddaboutit.

4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.

Ah we go out and vote for who gives us extra rice and cooking oil,

I get in a good spirit when the kamnan visits bearing gifts.

5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class;

the common people with respect to their political power.

Ah yes the people of Issan and Lanna casting their votes in an informed manner.

Democracy is the will of the people

who collectively have the loudest voices.The problem here is,

the organizations the DO THE COLLECTING are corrupt to the heels.

The up country people voted for the PPP machine,

Not for the specific cabinet or coalition nor the actual PM.

Even if that was implied. The 'Government' in question is

a political construct over and above the Thai voters choices.

It can go or come and NOT CHANGE THEIR VOTES,

unless a new election is held.

They voted the PPP the right to form the 1st government coalition,

there is NOTHING that says that coalition must stand for the terms of the MP's elected.

They didn't vote Samak and Newin 4 years of 'personal control' of Thailand.

What then.

In a parllamentary government,

when things go pear shaped in the streets or wherever,

the government resigns and some faction tries to form a new one.

Simple as that.

That is the question of the day. Will this group go and what group will

form the next 'government' construct over the PPP alliances,

until the courts anukll their existences if they do.

Edited August 26, 2008 by animatic

[pazu]

PAD is better described as People Against Democracy. If democracy was truly embraced, Thaksin would have served out his term/terms. When the social elite consider themselves above the "low" class farm people there cannot be a democracy. It's a sad situation and appears to be getting worse. Politicians are elected by popular vote and the elite who consider themselves above the majority must accept the results and wait for the next election. These elites refuse to work within the system and they are wrong.

Very well said, indeed I prefer to have Thaksin staying in terms rather than having such a big group of people there who denied to be defeated. Defeated by whom? By the Thai people's votes.