PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[Thai at Heart]

Technically maybe, but practically no.

Has she ever overuled one major policy decision from one of the many prime ministers who have served her ?

Yes but she did so at least once that I know of.... many years ago intervened in Australian (Commonwealth) Politics (Constitutional Crisis) and sacked the Premier Gough Whitlam!

There again just a rubber stamp for the Australian Governor General. But all the same, it was her signature that carried the act and for that she must bear responsibility. Ultimately , the Queen over rules everybody else in English politics, but in reality its just a farce as she has no real power except for the rubber stamp thing.

Didn't want to argue about the "rubber stamp" issue, but that she did...well doesn't really belong here - does it?

She has weekly meetings with the PM where she expresses her opinions and trusts that the PM will serve the country properly to the satisfaction of her subjects. What more would you like her to do in a modern functioning, enormously fair and free democracy?

Gosh at least I can comment on her position.

[ando]

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

Think Gary's missus has been seeing no evil, hearing no evil and speaking no evil when it comes to TRT/PPP and Samak's rise to power, which has rather brushed off on Gary who took her prognosis of a "clean" election at face value. The lad needs to get out a bit more round election time methinks. Or just read the Isaan Forum where there is regularly a rush of admissions from posters about how much their respective mias made from the last round of handouts at elections. Or maybe Loei is so far from such shenanigans, that the politicians are all white as the driven snow in that province?

Gary has been around the place long enough to know the ropes in Thailand. I have known him from another board for more than 5years.

Nothing wrong with debating another board members point of view, but postulating that his political opinion is grossly influenced by his wife's political views is a pretty weak excuse for an argument. Maybe better to debate the issue than to postulate on personal relationships.

[marshbags]

GOVT BESIEGED

HM the King grants Samak audience

The Nation, Sat, August 30, 2008 : Last updated 19:05 hours

A highly-anticipated audience granted Samak by HM the King has begun

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has been granted an audience with HM the King, after which the embattled People Power Party leader might meet government and opposition leaders discussing the political crisis in Bangkok.

Samak, who was expected to return to Bangkok before 9 pm, said earlier Saturday he would seek an audience with HM the King to report the rising political tensions concerning the ongoing protests.

He apparently tried to quash rumours that his audience with the King signified an intention to step down.

"I will not back down and will not resign as demanded by the protesters led by People's Alliance for Democracy. I will continue my duties for the sake of the *country ( *Spelling corrected out of respect for the king marshbags.) I am appointed as a prime minster by the laws, so if I have to quit, I will quit according to the laws, not because of threats from protests."

He said without giving further details that if his government adopted soft approach in dealing with the protesters, it will be criticised of being weak. However if it used severe approach, it will be condemned.

The premier flied to Klai Kangwon Palace late Friday night, expecting to be granted an audience with HM the King. However, he reportedly failed to do so and returned to Bangkok on Saturday morning. He then returned to the Klai Kanwon Palace Saturday afternoon.

Coaltion leaders would be holding a meeting in Bangkok Saturday night, purportedly to discuss Sunday's joint House-Senate meeting on the political crisis. Opposition leaders have reportedly been invited to join the Saturday night discussion.

Whether Samak would join the discussion tonight was not yet certain.

Unquote

marshbags

Edited August 30, 2008 by marshbags

[jitagon]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

[cmsally]

Kent State University was a pivotal site in the history of American protest. My father, who was an alumnae was saddened by students who, even when he revisited in the 1990's, were unaware of the significance of its role. Times change... students change... history changes... and nowadays we have busloads of university students arriving at critical points in the week and whose arrival were no doubt inspirational to those already in attendance. It speaks of its relevance to PAD as yet another faction of society being represented. The whole arena of academia is very well represented in PAD.

What's missing, as it to be expected in a brief article, are specifically who the "statement" came from and how much of the student body do they represent. The terrific thing that justifies Thomassat's reputation is the diversity of thought and variances of opinion.

For all we know, the statement was from a group that is not representative of a majority or prevalent opinion of the students or the faculty.

Dishonest and muddled thought processes as we have come to expect from this "bloodied grandmothers" poster.

As Wesley Hsu pointed out in his letter to the Bangkok Post today "the current PAD protests are not ideologically aligned with the student protests of 1973,1976 and 1992.The PAD is a rightist royalist movement having declared its distrust of elections and preference for appointed leaders and military oversight of civilian bureaucracy.Despite its yellow-clad nationalism and insistent focus on Thaksin's genuine corruption, the current anti-government faction is a reactionary cultural movement whose principles are anathema to genuine political progressives.

Student activists for all their naivete are not likely to mistake backwards for forwards.The fact that neither the army nor the police have fired a single shot at the PAD in contrast to the delirious suppression of past student protests highlights the ideological alignment between the PAD and the existing power structure that gives orders to the men with guns.

The students in 1976 demanded pluralism, wealth distribution and systemic change and were shot for it.Today's PAD demands oligarchy,submission and the end of majority rule by poor people insufficiently "Thai" to accept their lot as karma."

Thank you, for that good post which just about sums it up.

[h90]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

rubber bullets and tear gas but real bullets.

[ozterix]

list of charges against Taksin and Samak?

Sometime in the last month or two the Nation published a front page list of charges raised against the entire *cabinet*. If I remember rightly it was something like 30 cabinet members were up on charges...out of 36? What a team.

thanks, I'll try to locate it

oz

[TAWP]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

It can clearly be seen on ASTVs 24h web-cast.

And large tear gas clouds coming after launch of tear gas grenades are kinda hard to miss, together with the people throwing themselfs out of the clouds...

[marshbags]

He said that not resigning before he visit the king (at least I read it that way)....not that it get confused.

According to the BBC he made the announcement after the meeting.

The latest news at 19.05 Ref post 2465 above says he is now about to see the king.

It is also being shown on Channel 9 as i type this that he is about to go inside to see HRH the King.

He didn,t look a very happy bunny, very distressed if anything.[/b]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7589504.stm

from the nation

Samak vows to stay

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said he would not quit and he will stay on.

Again his statement in this latest news item says a bit more on what he was actually saying.

Quote ;-

"I will not back down and will not resign as demanded by the protesters led by People's Alliance for Democracy. I will continue my duties for the sake of the cuntry. I am appointed as a prime minster by the laws, so if I have to quit, I will quit according to the laws, not because of threats from protests

Please note to who he is specifically referring to and the end bit of his alledged statement, which is very important.

No criticism intended to anyone by the way. marshbags

Samak said that he didn't want to touch upon politics but he wanted to inform the public that he would continue working. His speech and the ceremony at Rajamakala Stadium was broadcast live on NBT channel. Some cabinet members were present.

He ended his speech by saying that he has got to go, hinting that he would seek an audience with "Jao Nai".

end quote

So for me it seems it was before.

Edited August 30, 2008 by marshbags

[ray23]

Well I think we can quit advising the Thai government now Mr. Samak has it figured out no matter how he approaches the problem he is going to be wrong.

He is definetly painted into a corner

[Thai at Heart]

Well I think we can quit advising the Thai government now Mr. Samak has it figured out no matter how he approaches the problem he is going to be wrong.

He is definetly painted into a corner

I think he may have worked out that the only way he has out of this is to do absolutely nothing about the PAD whatsoever so that over time, enough people get tired of them that they have to go home.

It is a free weekend in Bangkok. Thousands are on strike. If this was the represenatitive opinion of Thailand there would 500,000 protesting and massive nationwide protest. He hasn't had the official word to stand down from the highest authority. The longer he holds out, the longer and longer PAD looks toothless. Can they sit in the park for 6 months?

[jitagon]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

It can clearly be seen on ASTVs 24h web-cast.

And large tear gas clouds coming after launch of tear gas grenades are kinda hard to miss, together with the people throwing themselfs out of the clouds...

Okay. First off. I think I've already said ASTV is on the television 24 bloody 7. Not that I'm complaining.

And secondly. I did see the tear gas, so you can cut the sarcasm. Were the bullets discharged into the vapour and I missed it? As I've said. I am NOT anti PAD.

[mrtoad]

Samak has looked a complete fool. He should have dealt with this at the beginning of the week, and now it has escalated to the point where he has no choice but to step down. The numerous deadlines that he issued, and then never followed through has only weakend his position. He was puppet when he came into power, and now he's a lame duck.I really don't like the PAD and what they stand for, allthough on the other hand I can say the same about the PPP. In the end, those who really pull the strings are using both of these groups for their own means. It's just that the PAD has the tacit approval of the more established elite, hence the reason that they have been able to remain in position at the sites. Should be an interesting 24 hours, if Samak doesn't step down. One thing is for sure the same old shit will continue, as the usual suspects jostle to get their snouts in the money pot.

[marshbags]

B.Post today, 30--8-08 Ref. url :- http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=130168

Part Quote re what he actually, alledgedly said

Quote

"I will quit according to the laws, not because of threats from protests," said Mr Samak before leaving for Prachuap Khiri Khan and the royal audience.

"I will continue my duties for the sake of the country," said Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej on Saturday, before leaving for an audience in Hua Hin with His Majesty the King.

The besieged prime minister vowed to remain in power, even as thousands of demonstrators occupied his very own office at Government House in a fifth day of escalating protest, and amid signs he was losing support from the military and his coalition allies.

"I will quit according to the laws, not because of threats from protests," said Mr Samak before leaving for Prachuap Khiri Khan and the royal audience.

Unquote.

The bold closing bit is of the beginning of the statement and is possibly a significant one.

marshbags

Edited August 30, 2008 by marshbags

[TAWP]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

It can clearly be seen on ASTVs 24h web-cast.

And large tear gas clouds coming after launch of tear gas grenades are kinda hard to miss, together with the people throwing themselfs out of the clouds...

Okay. First off. I think I've already said ASTV is on the television 24 bloody 7. Not that I'm complaining.

And secondly. I did see the tear gas, so you can cut the sarcasm. Were the bullets discharged into the vapour and I missed it? As I've said. I am NOT anti PAD.

What do you mean? Teargas grenade launchers (be it in many shapes, let's not digress) is classified as a weapon, so the answer to your question is that weapons was used.

[h90]

The end point being..

Were these weapons fired?

Yes.

Thankfully no one was hit directly.

I'm not an anti PAD ranter like so many on this forum! But, and I might have missed something out of the 24/7 Channel 5 the spouse has on, but when where? With the rolling video clips of clashes with the police, would have thought I'd have spotted one with firearms being discharged! Whether they hit their mark or not.

It can clearly be seen on ASTVs 24h web-cast.

And large tear gas clouds coming after launch of tear gas grenades are kinda hard to miss, together with the people throwing themselfs out of the clouds...

Okay. First off. I think I've already said ASTV is on the television 24 bloody 7. Not that I'm complaining.

And secondly. I did see the tear gas, so you can cut the sarcasm. Were the bullets discharged into the vapour and I missed it? As I've said. I am NOT anti PAD.

yesterday at the police station was shooting and one woman got hit on the side...source my wife who was there. Our accounting had some itching from the tear gas, but today she was OK again.

[Old Man River]

I never know whether to believe TOC, but they are reporting that DAAD is grouping at Suan Luang and that they will send between 300-500 to ASTV to shut it down. Also, apparently one of the PAD leaders has asked approx. 2000 to go to ASTV and protect it. It was reported that he said they could protect themselves anyway they saw fit since this is private property.

I do hope all of the above is BS, but that is what is being reported.

[h90]

I never know whether to believe TOC, but they are reporting that DAAD is grouping at Suan Luang and that they will send between 300-500 to ASTV to shut it down. Also, apparently one of the PAD leaders has asked approx. 2000 to go to ASTV and protect it. It was reported that he said they could protect themselves anyway they saw fit since this is private property.

I do hope all of the above is BS, but that is what is being reported.

this are old news, or is that again?

[Old Man River]

I never know whether to believe TOC, but they are reporting that DAAD is grouping at Suan Luang and that they will send between 300-500 to ASTV to shut it down. Also, apparently one of the PAD leaders has asked approx. 2000 to go to ASTV and protect it. It was reported that he said they could protect themselves anyway they saw fit since this is private property.

I do hope all of the above is BS, but that is what is being reported.

this are old news, or is that again?

You are right. I just checked the timeline on the TOC report and it was 14:01. So, I guess it was typical Sonthi BS. I am glad to hear it.

[Plus]

Samak wants to sit it out, having lost all sense of purpose and direction. Fine, people around him will probably not like closed airports, blocked roads, and electricity and water cuts. He'll probably ignore them, too.

In the end they would have no choice but to admit him to Kasemraj (Thailand's best mental hospital).

>>>

Re students call on PAD and the government to quit - I think it's a good idea. Samak dissolves the house and PAD packs up and goes home. What else is supposed to happen anyway?

Hasn't Thammasat moved all its undergrads to Rangsit campus where there's no history to speak of?

[lucky2103]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House in Washington and raid it...

Edited August 30, 2008 by lucky2103

[Old Man River]

Samak wants to sit it out, having lost all sense of purpose and direction. Fine, people around him will probably not like closed airports, blocked roads, and electricity and water cuts. He'll probably ignore them, too.

In the end they would have no choice but to admit him to Kasemraj (Thailand's best mental hospital).

>>>

Re students call on PAD and the government to quit - I think it's a good idea. Samak dissolves the house and PAD packs up and goes home. What else is supposed to happen anyway?

Hasn't Thammasat moved all its undergrads to Rangsit campus where there's no history to speak of?

While I agree that dissolving the house should diffuse the situation, I would think the leaders of the PAD would also demand a full pardon. Failing this, the situation would go on.

[h90]

I never know whether to believe TOC, but they are reporting that DAAD is grouping at Suan Luang and that they will send between 300-500 to ASTV to shut it down. Also, apparently one of the PAD leaders has asked approx. 2000 to go to ASTV and protect it. It was reported that he said they could protect themselves anyway they saw fit since this is private property.

I do hope all of the above is BS, but that is what is being reported.

this are old news, or is that again?

You are right. I just checked the timeline on the TOC report and it was 14:01. So, I guess it was typical Sonthi BS. I am glad to hear it.

Either overvalued rumors or to entertain the crowds....If there is no enemy...what to do?

I don't understand Samak, if from the beginning he would invite them to speak about their concerns. If from the beginning Samak would make a joke out of it, telling about their right to demonstrate and order the police to help the PAD. Than no one would have gone their, beside a 200 hardcore people.

Whenever the public interest fainted away Samak or Chalerm gave them a big boost again.

Don't know is Samak a Masochist or a complete idi*ot?

[h90]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

[ray23]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

[lucky2103]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

Well, I agree that a really developed society wudnt form a mob which marches on to government district.

[Samuian]

It isn't all that difficult, some one would like the MP to step down and a couple of other changes...unless this happens, there will be public disobedience, simple - we see it happening, right, wrong, forth, back, white house or not - TiT and this is what happens...

[Old Man River]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

[h90]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

Well, I agree that a really developed society wudnt form a mob which marches on to government district.

specialy because they wouldn't have a bunch of criminals as their government.

[sjaak327]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House in Washington and raid it...

Yep, I agree, I think the police have showed remarkable restrain in dealing with the protests. There is therefore no need whatsoever to be shocked by the few tear gas canisters that have been released.

After all, the protesters are repeatedly breaking the law, in developed countries, such people will receive a certain response (within the law of course).

Edited August 30, 2008 by sjaak327