PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[LeungKen]

I trust that Crow Boy will not be upset if this old bloke repeats himself.

from post #2262 yesterday

"Hi Folks,

Spare a thought for the moderators, it's a thankless task at the best of times, and now in these emotional times it's all they can do to keep up with the postings let alone moderate succesfully.

We as posters, can make their task easier and try and return to a little more civility when posting.

To all the mods, cheers & good luck for a sterling effort.

Now back to the topic......."

[madi]

The purpose of civil disobedience is to provoke a response. If PAd connot get one they will have to go home. So things will escalate or be settled through compromise.

Sounds like they need to change the law to make it harder to change the constitution. Like in the US two thirds of the states must radify the change within a certain time period.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good point but the problems here seem to be much deeper. When sides dislike and mistrust either so so deeply, any system has a possibility of failure.

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that desrve better than this.

[sriracha john]

About 150 pro-government demonstrators rally in front of Parliament

Thai PBS reported at 7:55 am Sunday that some 150 members of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship rallied in front of Parliament in support of the Government.

Many protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy also rallied there, the station said.

Policemen were positioned in the area to prevent clashes between the two groups.

The Nation

150 pro-government protesters. If I were PAD, I would be very afraid of that huge garner of support for PPP.

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30082037

Wait didn't PPP / DAAD anounce last night 2,000 people going to parliment this AM... hhhmmm

Comes out as 7.5% of projected support... from the Taxi Driver army no less

Jatuporn announced 100,000... and it was 150... what's the math percentage on that one please?

Elite Card was 1,000,000.... and it's (being very generous here now as we haven't had figures in like 6 months) 3,000.... what's the percentage on that one?, btw....

Edited August 31, 2008 by sriracha john

[animatic]

I never called you names.

I was using sarcasm, and not personal abuse.

It seems the moderators are either a triffle biased the last 24 hours or overwhelemed.

Not biased but are overwhelmed but the volume of posts. Many of them contain valid information and points of view but have flames or insults embedded in them.

We are faced with the dilemma of how much should we edit of these posts. Delete any that say "you are an idiot" etc or let the thead go because it is important and has a direct impact on everyone of us who live in, visit and care about this country.

Crow Boy

Moderating Team

Thai Visa

Crow boy I suspected 'Overwhelmed'.

It's just I got a warning for 'flaming' 2 days ago,

and have since seen several egregious acts of personal abuse.

WAY, WAY beyond my comment and have felt I was not treated fairly

in comparison.

I am a moderator on another forum and deal with your job so I know the drill,

and often in equally divicive circumstances. I apologized to the moderator.

But since then have felt that my comments were very light in comparison

to whats gone on afterwards.

An example I was just called an idiot; directly,

I only implied that I though someone else possibly worked for Shin PR branch...

Actually I put it in the form of a question.

I used the word shill which means false flag or plant,

I guess maybe that is insulting to be seen as working for Thaksins PR arm.

In any case I have since seen truly NASTY abusive comments from some.

Good luck you guys on the moderating staff, for sure you need it this week.

Crow Boy,

You posted the last one while I was writing.

I gotcha, too much to edit, but suspension will happen for abuse.

Yes makes sense.

Edited August 31, 2008 by animatic

[h90]

About 150 pro-government demonstrators rally in front of Parliament

Thai PBS reported at 7:55 am Sunday that some 150 members of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship rallied in front of Parliament in support of the Government.

Many protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy also rallied there, the station said.

Policemen were positioned in the area to prevent clashes between the two groups.

The Nation

150 pro-government protesters. If I were PAD, I would be very afraid of that huge garner of support for PPP.

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30082037

Wait didn't PPP / DAAD anounce last night 2,000 people going to parliment this AM... hhhmmm

Comes out as 7.5% of projected support... from the Taxi Driver army no less

Jatuporn announced 100,000... and it was 150... what's the math percentage on that one please?

Elite Card was 1,000,000.... and it's (being very generous here now as we haven't had figures in like 6 months) 3,000.... what's the percentage on that one?, btw....

150 people is this the uprising of the silent majority?

[jts-khorat]

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that desrve better than this.

The real problem is, Thai short-sightedness had to lead to this mess eventually.

The coup was wanted by the majority because Thaksin 'robbed them' (did they not know his business history as they elected him?).

His proxies were elected back in because of their populist promises.

That is the voice of the majority in this country. Vote byuing, btw, abounds on every level here, you should go and witness a small village election for the Ombudsman, the big parties are just doing it on a larger scale. It is expected, so not a problem to the local mindset.

In this sense, the constitution was agreed to by the majority, as would be the changes by the elected government. The PAD are a minority who will be just the same (or worse) system of corrupt ruffians with new snouts in the trough.

Such a cycle has to lead to disaster eventually.

[ubonjoe]

PM holds tough in face of protest crisis

Prime Minister and Defence Minister Samak Sundaravej on Sunday vowed to stay on in his post despite having lost Government House - the seat of his administration - to protesters for the past six days.

"I came to power in accordance with the law," said Mr Samak, addressing his weekly "Talking Samak Style" television program on the state run NBT television channel on Sunday morning. "I have done nothing wrong."

The prime minister has approved a special joint session of the Lower and Upper Houses of Parliament Sunday to find means of defusing Thailand's latest political crisis in which the government has seen their offices seized by thousands of demonstrators from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), a loose coalition of conservative groups who are calling for Mr Samak's resignation and the dissolution of parliament.

Mr Samak, who heads the People Power party (PPP), received a political boost Saturday night when his coalition partners confirmed their support for the besieged premier at a press conference.

The 73-year-old veteran politician was also granted an audience with His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej Saturday evening at the monarch's palace at Hua Hin beach resort, 150 kilometres south-west of Bangkok. Samak appeared self-confident after the royal audience.

"Fear can cause damage, but I am not afraid," said Samak in his weekly talk to the nation.

He blasted the PAD for breaking the law in seizing Government House on Tuesday, and trying to create a "spark" to bring down the government.

The PAD's campaign to bring down the Samak government gained momentum on Friday when police tried to forcefully remove the protestors from Government House.

The show of police force prompted PAD followers to raid and shut down three popular airports in Phuket, Hat Yai and Krabi, all in southern Thailand. Phuket and Krabi airports were still closed to traffic Sunday, leaving scores of foreign tourists stranded.

The labour union of the State Railways of Thailand (SRT) also shut down several routes nationwide in a show of support for the PAD.

The police were forced to retreat, leaving the PAD in control of Thailand's seat of government over the weekend.

On Friday, Mr Samak reportedly wanted to declare a state of emergency to deal with the PAD protest but the proposal was rejected by Army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda.

Political analysts say Mr Samak faces a dilemma in dealing with the PAD, which is openly pro-monarchist, because the military will not use force in disbanding the demonstration.

The PAD is a political movement that was launched as a spearhead to topple former premier Thaksin Shinawatra who was eventually ousted by a military coup on September 19, 2006.

Its leaders advocate a return to Thailand's old-style democracy, favouring a lead role of the bureaucracy, the military and appointed office holders over elected members of parliament.

It is deemed a conservative reaction to the populist policies of Mr Thaksin and Mr Samak's PPP, that have proved successful in winning elections by gaining the support of Thailand's urban and rural poor.

The movement has won the support of many middle-class Thais who are fed up with the corruption and abuses of power that are part and parcel of elected governments in Thailand.

The Samak-PAD showdown is seen by some analysts as a crucial test for Thailand's democratic system, which can be characterized as a see-saw between elected governments and governments headed or appointed by the military.

"If the PAD succeeds in ousting Mr Samak, it will be a huge setback for Thai democracy," said Mr Thitinan Pongsudhirak, director of the Institute of Security and International Studies at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University. "It will be the crowning success for the right-wing conservative contingents who are against election- based democracy." (BangkokPost.com, dpa)

[rken]

The purpose of civil disobedience is to provoke a response. If PAd connot get one they will have to go home. So things will escalate or be settled through compromise.

Sounds like they need to change the law to make it harder to change the constitution. Like in the US two thirds of the states must radify the change within a certain time period.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good point but the problems here seem to be much deeper. When sides dislike and mistrust either so so deeply, any system has a possibility of failure.

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that desrve better than this.

I think that changing the laws to make it harder to change the contitution should not be set up to be retroactive as this would lead to prosecutions against things that were not illegal at the time they were done. This is a clear and simple change that I think all could agree on and would alleviate the present problem.

[sriracha john]

"Will you stand naked in front of the people in Parliament this afternoon?" Samak asked during his Talk Samak Style programme on NBT.

"No, and we'll leave the soapies to the TRT/PPP also"...

[animatic]

About 150 pro-government demonstrators rally in front of Parliament

Thai PBS reported at 7:55 am Sunday that some 150 members of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship rallied in front of Parliament in support of the Government.

Many protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy also rallied there, the station said.

Policemen were positioned in the area to prevent clashes between the two groups.

The Nation

150 pro-government protesters. If I were PAD, I would be very afraid of that huge garner of support for PPP.

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30082037

Wait didn't PPP / DAAD anounce last night 2,000 people going to parliment this AM... hhhmmm

Comes out as 7.5% of projected support... from the Taxi Driver army no less

Jatuporn announced 100,000... and it was 150... what's the math percentage on that one please?

Elite Card was 1,000,000.... and it's (being very generous here now as we haven't had figures in like 6 months) 3,000.... what's the percentage on that one?, btw....

LOL 1/666.6667 or 0.149% of estimated support.

Elite card rates... hmmm 1/333 or about 0.3%

better Elite card rates for sure.

[h90]

I looked at Nation's breaking news this morning and it's all filled with "Samak lambasts this", "Samak lambasts that", "Samak lambasts that other thing". PBS, Media, PAD, Senators, Egat workers, THAI workers - every one gets their share, and that's even before he went on air with his usual abuse on national TV.

In the meantime he officially started his 116 days of national unity program yesterday. What a fuc_king monkey!?!?

Major Airports closed, roads closed, power is about to be shut, government house occupied for a week and he personally abuses everyone standing in his way, and he dares call it "National unity"!

>>>

Yes, the country must be run according to the laws, but don't forget that there are two components to this - spirit of the law, and the books. The country can't live by books alone, they are meant to punish occasional waywards, while the majority should live by the spirit of the law.

PPP led government openly abuses the spirit and challenges the courts to catch them. Justice system, the books, is completely overwhelmed, and it doesn't act as a deterrent anymore, not for PPP politicians anyway. There's a breakdown of law and order, a kind of denial of service attack - when there are too many requests to answer all of them, and each offence must go through multiple stages of appeal.

While I, personally, don't think it's reached critical point yet, I understand people who think it did already - PAD.

2 September ruling on PPP is by EC only, then it would go to the courts, and then it would take about half a year to reach conclusion. That means that more than a year after the elections, the result could be completely overruled, and that would mean all these claims to legitimacy and "elected by the law" arguments will be thrown out of the window. Also, next month Samak could lose his appeal and be taken straight to jail. He'd sound very funny screaming about his "mandate" from behind the bars.

Also next month he can lose his "cooking show" case and removed from his post. Now the PPP vowed to vote him back into PM seat straight away - isn't it a blatant mockery of justice and the spirit of the law?

So, I understand when PAD says these nonsense shouldn't be allowed to go on.

If you want to look at the examples of the proper approach - look at Apirak, he stood down when he was named in fire truck investigation file, the reason was that by the spirit of the law he had become tainted already, from the moment he commited the crime (or investigators decided he had commited a crime), he accepted responsibility from that point on, not from the day of his last appeal several years later.

Look at junta government - many of them resigned at the first sign of impropriety, even if the lawbooks were completely on their side.

Now we have Chaya who stayed on until the court ruling, and then came right back in in the next reshuffle. We have Surapong who is a defendant in corruption trial - for abusing the authority given to the government, and he goes on and does exactly the same thing - with his "executive" decision to award government contract to his cronies company.

They commit more offenses than the justice system will ever be able to process - that's why PAD is taking the matter in its own hands, and I support them, though reluctantly.

If they don't find other ways to delay it...need more evidence, need to ask witnesses again, but witness are in UK so we must wait till they come back, etc etc etc..

Meanwhile the PPP (TRT 2nd edition) is anyway complete replaced with TRT 3rd edition and TRT 4th edition is in the making.

Everything financed with corrupt on which the courts may rule 2015.

[Maxi101]

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that desrve better than this.

The real problem is, Thai short-sightedness had to lead to this mess eventually.

The coup was wanted by the majority because Thaksin 'robbed them' (did they not know his business history as they elected him?).

His proxies were elected back in because of their populist promises.

hmm nobody can know for sure, but I think the reason have been the failed (catastropic) policy of the "Junta'

and the total passivity of the Democrats (and still they have no balls)

That is the voice of the majority in this country. Vote byuing, btw, abounds on every level here, you should go and witness a small village election for the Ombudsman, the big parties are just doing it on a larger scale. It is expected, so not a problem to the local mindset.

In this sense, the constitution was agreed to by the majority, as would be the changes by the elected government. The PAD are a minority who will be just the same (or worse) system of corrupt ruffians with new snouts in the trough.

Such a cycle has to lead to disaster eventually.

Can't hear (read) the vote buying anymore too - people have a free mind as long the election is anonymous.

At least here they are more real while in Western countries we are satisfied with just empty promises already.

maxi

[rken]

PPP if they were smart would tell there people to go home. if something gets started between ppp and pad. PAD gets what it wants a reaction. Which could lead to fighting and the army stepping. PUD wins.

Gandi understood these principles well.

[h90]

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that desrve better than this.

The real problem is, Thai short-sightedness had to lead to this mess eventually.

The coup was wanted by the majority because Thaksin 'robbed them' (did they not know his business history as they elected him?).

His proxies were elected back in because of their populist promises.

hmm nobody can know for sure, but I think the reason have been the failed (catastropic) policy of the "Junta'

and the total passivity of the Democrats (and still they have no balls)

That is the voice of the majority in this country. Vote byuing, btw, abounds on every level here, you should go and witness a small village election for the Ombudsman, the big parties are just doing it on a larger scale. It is expected, so not a problem to the local mindset.

In this sense, the constitution was agreed to by the majority, as would be the changes by the elected government. The PAD are a minority who will be just the same (or worse) system of corrupt ruffians with new snouts in the trough.

Such a cycle has to lead to disaster eventually.

Can't hear (read) the vote buying anymore too - people have a free mind as long the election is anonymous.

At least here they are more real while in Western countries we are satisfied with just empty promises already.

maxi

:D

[madi]

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that deserve better than this.

The real problem is, Thai short-sightedness had to lead to this mess eventually.

The coup was wanted by the majority because Thaksin 'robbed them' (did they not know his business history as they elected him?).

His proxies were elected back in because of their populist promises.

That is the voice of the majority in this country. Vote buying, BTW, abounds on every level here, you should go and witness a small village election for the Ombudsman, the big parties are just doing it on a larger scale. It is expected, so not a problem to the local mindset.

In this sense, the constitution was agreed to by the majority, as would be the changes by the elected government. The PAD are a minority who will be just the same (or worse) system of corrupt ruffians with new snouts in the trough.

Such a cycle has to lead to disaster eventually.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with you of course that the vote buying is a major problem but as you said, it happens on all sides in elections.

Without being negative and throwing verbal rocks using the past, all sides must move forward for the good of the nation.

A major collapse of Thailand would hurt all Thai people, rich and poor.

The rich land holders should understand, as I am sure they do, that international trade sanctions could very well be put upon Thailand as is the case against Burma, if Thailand refuses to hold and honer elections.

I get the feeling that the elite here are not in agreement as to what should happen now.

if you are a major exporter, the last thing you would want would be trade sanctions against your exports.

Any fight would be a negative for all.

A compromise is in order. The land owners need a solid guarantee in a constitution for their property rights. The poor need better working conditions.

All of this has come to a head in no small way because of the much higher prices for all goods here in Thailand. Imagine you make 10,000 baht or far less a month and the costs for your food, fuel, and everything Yuh can name has gone up by 30%. You will be in a poor mood. People all over are upset.

When people are losing buying power, bad things can happen.

[sriracha john]

Does anyone remember that wonderful 'Thaksinism' of "You shouldn't criticse me, I am the country's Leader"?!? They really think they walk on water:

How dare you, media, speculate my resignation?: Samak

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej Sunday asked the media how there it speculated his resignation.

"How dared you, media, think that I would resign after I was granted an audience with His Majesty the King?" Samak asked.

He said he had told them before he left for the audience with His Majesty but the media still speculated his resignation.

He said the media should note that he has been given ten audiences with His Majesty and nothing happened.

The Nation

Absolutely classic Thaksin....with a follow-on performance by his stand-in, nominee, proxy.

Thanks for posting this specific reminder.

[animatic]

Desperate men taking desperate actions,

and risking the lives of so many little people to do it.

Shameful to be sure.

Yes, only too true sadly. This is the problem with people like Sondhi and Panlop, they don't care who gets hurt in the pursuit of their own personal revenge. Desperate men indeed....good post animatic

Actually I was referring to the PPP counter rally

and plan to march on the parlement

in equal measure in that comment.

One mob in the streets is too much,

it becomes grandly irresponsable to send a second one out

especially with the depth of ill feelings abounding...

I think Panlop is just being a spoiler boggieman vs the arrest of PAD leaders

and that actually may have saved lives preventing a serious conflagration

as they tried to arrest them.

Not to say I support Kuhn Panlop.

[sriracha john]

Yet all I see on here is farang berating farang with neither having a real clue about whats going on

SJ, you are the exception..keep it coming

hahaha... still fighting the good fight...

say, good to see ya round, Jack... haven't seen you posting much lately

Hey, any colpyat sightings in the thread? Sure do seem to be a lot of dubious "on-the-ground" "joined yesterday" types posting...

[Kerryd]

The first major step is to get rid of that stupid system called democracy. One man, one vote. What a ridiculous concept! The second step is to make sure that the schools remain underfunded. It would be a disaster for the elite if the majority of the people were NOT kept ignorant. The wealthy elite stay on the top and they enjoy riding on the backs of the poor.

What you describe (tongue in cheek I presume ) is pretty much how much of the ME is run. Can't let the masses get educated, or they may realise how badly they are getting screwed.

Let them vote ?

OK, some ME countries are a little more progressive. The rulers decide who they want in office, and the people get to vote for those people.

I imagine there are some in Thailand that would like to see a similar system, on both sides of the game (PPP and PAD). It's so much easier to screw over the little people when you have total control.

Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

The problem I see here, between the factual news and everything inbetween, is that both sides (in reality) care little for the majority of the Thai citizens. Each side sees them as tools to further their own ends. Serfs to create the wealth that the elite can enjoy, be they elected, appointed or "Masters in the Shadows".

As I mentioned earlier, it still seems that no matter who comes out on top, the majority of the Thai people will still end up the losers.

[chevykanteve]

TAH...maybe you do know her as I do (quite well), you have posted a lot on this particular thread...but why are you wasting your time and energy (not to mention your brain capacity) posting about stuff that will make absolutley NO DIFFERENCE to how this thing pan out.

I'm done now...anyone else wanna flame me for saying how it REALLY IS..then feel free

I d say the same about your last 2 posts, makes absolutely no difference on the numbers of future posts on here.

I do not know from what cave you Tony Clifton are barking and weather you are in Thailand at all but you are an absolute idiot.

Notice that the last PAD action regarding airports mostly hurts foreigners. I am not surprised: PAD is among other things a xenophobic organization and IMHO they may start hurt foreigners if their leadres decide that it is in their interests.

I am glad to here the news that PPP finally start to mobilize their supporters to move to BKK. This is the only reasonable way out. PAD claims that they started a "revolution". Hey, it is time for people to do just that. I sincerely hope that it is going to happen.

Samak should go: it is not about him , it is about the Thailand.

Hope there are PPP leadres who understand that. The time is running out. For the sake of Thailand they need to act now.

I may be an idiot but I seriously wonder what you are wishing for the PPP supporters to mobilize in Bangkok for a very possible confrontation, maybe you are blood thirsty, or another one of those murderers on the run hiding in Thailand? Disgusting. Are you aware they are threatening to march to parliament tomorrow at 7am??? You think they're going over there to shake hands and exchange t-shirts after a Bangkok-N.Eastern cultural exchange? Have you enjoyed their last attack on the PAD? Or maybe you prefered when they attacked Democrats and destroyed their stage? How about World PLaza and the old men being roughed up?

Well, I think a lot of people will agree on your self appraisal of your mental abilities here Tony. As for the people forming at Sanam Luang it seems you believe that only people who share your views should have the right to hold protest meetings.

Spot on.

Double spot on. And Mr. Clifton: if you're so hot to trot for action, why not (tmporarily at least) refrain from your PAD- (supported??) -Internet-Propagandist activities and actually join the "fun" at govt house?

[frodo]

Samak asks 30 senators: Will you stand naked in Parliament?

What hurt me most is media's behaviour: Samak

Perhaps Samak should first stand naked in front of the entire nation first and give full explanation about only one person being killed in 1976. Lead your country with example Samak? Is he capable of telling the truth for once? Anything out of his mouth is utter rubbish.

He's hurt, eh? Good! He certainly doesn't have a reputation for making others happy.

Was it this one, Samak?

Maybe this one?

Maybe even this one?

Maybe these ones?

Will the real Samak stand up please? His past shows who he really is, and he isn't about democracy. Let's hope these scenes will not happen again. He needs to step down.

[ubonjoe]

Bangkok Post

Sea of mud

What used to be the lawn in front of Government House has turned to mud after rain and the occupation by the People’s Alliance for Democracy. — Apichart Jinakul

How much will this mess cost to repair along with all the other damage done.

[sriracha john]

About 150 pro-government demonstrators rally in front of Parliament

Thai PBS reported at 7:55 am Sunday that some 150 members of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship rallied in front of Parliament in support of the Government.

Many protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy also rallied there, the station said.

Policemen were positioned in the area to prevent clashes between the two groups.

The Nation

150 pro-government protesters. If I were PAD, I would be very afraid of that huge garner of support for PPP.

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30082037

Wait didn't PPP / DAAD anounce last night 2,000 people going to parliment this AM... hhhmmm

Comes out as 7.5% of projected support... from the Taxi Driver army no less

Jatuporn announced 100,000... and it was 150... what's the math percentage on that one please?

Elite Card was 1,000,000.... and it's (being very generous here now as we haven't had figures in like 6 months) 3,000.... what's the percentage on that one?, btw....

LOL 1/666.6667 or 0.149% of estimated support.

Elite card rates... hmmm 1/333 or about 0.3%

better Elite card rates for sure.

thanks for that...

pretty abysmal results for both....

[nick2k]

my 2 cents..

I can't help thinking that the real reason why everybody is upset is not because of thaksin or samak, it is the fact that people are not able to live on the money they make working anymore.

in this last year, we have seen the cost of food at the supermarkets rise over 100% from what it was last year. hotels, air fares, etc. EVERYTHING increased in the price in the last year. AND then, the price of oil entered the arena and skyrocketed like never before.

if you are a thai person that makes the average daily salary of around 200 baht a day, you cannot live on that anymore.

as I see it, this is what is causing all the unrest.

SOMEBODY has to confront this issue, and resolve it.

[RadioCityMike]

No Constitution that is not agreed upon by the majority will work.

I just hope this place does not collapse.

I love Thai people and there are so so many that deserve better than this.

The real problem is, Thai short-sightedness had to lead to this mess eventually.

The coup was wanted by the majority because Thaksin 'robbed them' (did they not know his business history as they elected him?).

His proxies were elected back in because of their populist promises.

That is the voice of the majority in this country. Vote buying, BTW, abounds on every level here, you should go and witness a small village election for the Ombudsman, the big parties are just doing it on a larger scale. It is expected, so not a problem to the local mindset.

In this sense, the constitution was agreed to by the majority, as would be the changes by the elected government. The PAD are a minority who will be just the same (or worse) system of corrupt ruffians with new snouts in the trough.

Such a cycle has to lead to disaster eventually.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with you of course that the vote buying is a major problem but as you said, it happens on all sides in elections.

Without being negative and throwing verbal rocks using the past, all sides must move forward for the good of the nation.

A major collapse of Thailand would hurt all Thai people, rich and poor.

The rich land holders should understand, as I am sure they do, that international trade sanctions could very well be put upon Thailand as is the case against Burma, if Thailand refuses to hold and honer elections.

I get the feeling that the elite here are not in agreement as to what should happen now.

if you are a major exporter, the last thing you would want would be trade sanctions against your exports.

Any fight would be a negative for all.

A compromise is in order. The land owners need a solid guarantee in a constitution for their property rights. The poor need better working conditions.

All of this has come to a head in no small way because of the much higher prices for all goods here in Thailand. Imagine you make 10,000 baht or far less a month and the costs for your food, fuel, and everything Yuh can name has gone up by 30%. You will be in a poor mood. People all over are upset.

When people are losing buying power, bad things can happen.

If PAD would agree to another democratic election, certainly the party that promised the most to the poor would win. Then we would be right back where we are now.

[sriracha john]

I looked at Nation's breaking news this morning and it's all filled with "Samak lambasts this", "Samak lambasts that", "Samak lambasts that other thing". PBS, Media, PAD, Senators, Egat workers, THAI workers - every one gets their share, and that's even before he went on air with his usual abuse on national TV.

In the meantime he officially started his 116 days of national unity program yesterday. What a fuc_king monkey!?!?

Major Airports closed, roads closed, power is about to be shut, government house occupied for a week and he personally abuses everyone standing in his way, and he dares call it "National unity"!

>>>

Yes, the country must be run according to the laws, but don't forget that there are two components to this - spirit of the law, and the books. The country can't live by books alone, they are meant to punish occasional waywards, while the majority should live by the spirit of the law.

PPP led government openly abuses the spirit and challenges the courts to catch them. Justice system, the books, is completely overwhelmed, and it doesn't act as a deterrent anymore, not for PPP politicians anyway. There's a breakdown of law and order, a kind of denial of service attack - when there are too many requests to answer all of them, and each offence must go through multiple stages of appeal.

While I, personally, don't think it's reached critical point yet, I understand people who think it did already - PAD.

2 September ruling on PPP is by EC only, then it would go to the courts, and then it would take about half a year to reach conclusion. That means that more than a year after the elections, the result could be completely overruled, and that would mean all these claims to legitimacy and "elected by the law" arguments will be thrown out of the window. Also, next month Samak could lose his appeal and be taken straight to jail. He'd sound very funny screaming about his "mandate" from behind the bars.

Also next month he can lose his "cooking show" case and removed from his post. Now the PPP vowed to vote him back into PM seat straight away - isn't it a blatant mockery of justice and the spirit of the law?

So, I understand when PAD says these nonsense shouldn't be allowed to go on.

If you want to look at the examples of the proper approach - look at Apirak, he stood down when he was named in fire truck investigation file, the reason was that by the spirit of the law he had become tainted already, from the moment he commited the crime (or investigators decided he had commited a crime), he accepted responsibility from that point on, not from the day of his last appeal several years later.

Look at junta government - many of them resigned at the first sign of impropriety, even if the lawbooks were completely on their side.

Now we have Chaya who stayed on until the court ruling, and then came right back in in the next reshuffle. We have Surapong who is a defendant in corruption trial - for abusing the authority given to the government, and he goes on and does exactly the same thing - with his "executive" decision to award government contract to his cronies company.

They commit more offenses than the justice system will ever be able to process - that's why PAD is taking the matter in its own hands, and I support them, though reluctantly.

If they don't find other ways to delay it...need more evidence, need to ask witnesses again, but witness are in UK so we must wait till they come back, etc etc etc..

Meanwhile the PPP (TRT 2nd edition) is anyway complete replaced with TRT 3rd edition and TRT 4th edition is in the making.

Everything financed with corrupt on which the courts may rule 2015.

Excellent points throughout.... thanks for posting it over on this thread..

I was thinking this was THE thread for events unfolding... as I dread bouncing back and forth through several

[ubonjoe]

DAAD gathers in front of parliament

(BangkokPost.com) - Over a thousand supporters of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD), a pro-government group, have blockaded U-thong Nai road to gather in front of the parliament building on Sunday morning.

Their aim of the demonstration is to voice their support to the People Power party-led coalition government and their opposition to the movements of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

Many hundreds of police officers have been dispatched to maintain order around the parliament building. People working at the parliament with clearance cards are allowed to enter and exit the building only.

In the meantime, more people are travelling to U-thong Nai road to join the rally staged by the DAAD. The gathering is expected to continue to Sunday evening.

[h90]

Yet all I see on here is farang berating farang with neither having a real clue about whats going on

SJ, you are the exception..keep it coming

hahaha... still fighting the good fight...

say, good to see ya round, Jack... haven't seen you posting much lately

Hey, any colpyat sightings in the thread? Sure do seem to be a lot of dubious "on-the-ground" "joined yesterday" types posting...

SJ continue your good work....your informations are always helpfull

[sriracha john]

What used to be the lawn in front of Government House has turned to mud after rain and the occupation by the People’s Alliance for Democracy. — Apichart Jinakul

How much will this mess cost to repair along with all the other damage done.

Yes, what is the current per square wah rate for humanity?

Edited August 31, 2008 by sriracha john

[jts-khorat]

my 2 cents..

I can't help thinking that the real reason why everybody is upset is not because of thaksin or samak, it is the fact that people are not able to live on the money they make working anymore.

in this last year, we have seen the cost of food at the supermarkets rise over 100% from what it was last year. hotels, air fares, etc. EVERYTHING increased in the price in the last year. AND then, the price of oil entered the arena and skyrocketed like never before.

if you are a thai person that makes the average daily salary of around 200 baht a day, you cannot live on that anymore.

as I see it, this is what is causing all the unrest.

SOMEBODY has to confront this issue, and resolve it.

Welcome to globalization; not having it means: away with the expensive mobiles, the car (opwned by the bank anyway), the soap operas on TV and back to buffaloes and rice fields. Sure then even a day laborers salary can feed a whole family (I have seen it with my own eyes).

It is the people's own greed that makes them upset.