Thais And Depression

[mssabai]

My boyfriend suffers form depression, and I suspect it may be a kind of bipolar disorder. He can be even for a while, but this is countered by 'manic' periods where he is very energetic and a bit of a loose cannon, then followed with a big old 'down' where he feels completely weighed down by a horrible bleakness. Sometimes these episodes are triggered by an event, however his latest hasn't been and it has made me realise that we have to seriously try and tackle it, as his despair when he is down is pretty heart breaking. He tries to pin his feelings onto something to give himself justification I guess, and will try to antagonise me into fighting with him - again I think to give his feelings some kind of anchor.

I am lucky though in that he is able to talk about these feelings and has a good awareness of his state of mind and what he should and shouldn't do (for instance he stops drinking as this can make the whole issue a lot worse) and I have mentioned (tentatively) that I think it may be time for him to see a doctor. I was surprised that there was no immediate negative reaction, and I feel he may well go for it. This situation is compounded by the fact that his dad killed himself 5 years ago. He has told me that there was no obvious reason for his dad to do this - no debts, no drinking/drug/work problem, loving dad and grandad - which makes me figure that he too suffered from some kind of chemically triggered depression. He has had thoughts of suicide himself I know, but feels that what his dad did was also incredibly selfish; but obviously it is a fear that looms pretty large when I see him so depressed.

Has anyone had an experience of a Thai partner (man or woman) and depression...or in fact any nationality..as it is a first for me and pretty daunting! I find it upsetting to see him in such pain, and also find it quite waring to try and not take any attack on me personally when sometimes I just want to flip at him. I also would like any advice on helping him to get help - how to find a good counseller, what the stages of treatment are etc. I hear there is a good psychiatrist at a hospital in Samui so I guess that will be our first port of call.

Any advice or experiences would be appreciated! Thanks

[girlx]

my neighbor (whom you know) in TNP had serious depression and she went to the doctor on Samui as well (whom I have heard really good things about). my mom is a serious depressive and i had serious depression in the past, but mine was the result of post traumatic stress (maybe same as your bf)- i also have a lot of anxiety which most depressed people don't. but from my experience, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) works a lot better long term than pharmaceuticals do. antidepressants can be a nightmare if you don't get the right ones for your particular diagnosis. they have serious withdrawal symptoms if you need to get off of them, and you have to taper off slowly. also they have a lot of creepy side effects. exercise helps a lot. meditation, writing a journal, eating healthy, getting enough sleep, all that.

[FrangipaniGal]

My boyfriend suffers form depression, and I suspect it may be a kind of bipolar disorder. He can be even for a while, but this is countered by 'manic' periods where he is very energetic and a bit of a loose cannon, then followed with a big old 'down' where he feels completely weighed down by a horrible bleakness. Sometimes these episodes are triggered by an event, however his latest hasn't been and it has made me realise that we have to seriously try and tackle it, as his despair when he is down is pretty heart breaking. He tries to pin his feelings onto something to give himself justification I guess, and will try to antagonise me into fighting with him - again I think to give his feelings some kind of anchor.

I am lucky though in that he is able to talk about these feelings and has a good awareness of his state of mind and what he should and shouldn't do (for instance he stops drinking as this can make the whole issue a lot worse) and I have mentioned (tentatively) that I think it may be time for him to see a doctor. I was surprised that there was no immediate negative reaction, and I feel he may well go for it. This situation is compounded by the fact that his dad killed himself 5 years ago. He has told me that there was no obvious reason for his dad to do this - no debts, no drinking/drug/work problem, loving dad and grandad - which makes me figure that he too suffered from some kind of chemically triggered depression. He has had thoughts of suicide himself I know, but feels that what his dad did was also incredibly selfish; but obviously it is a fear that looms pretty large when I see him so depressed.

Has anyone had an experience of a Thai partner (man or woman) and depression...or in fact any nationality..as it is a first for me and pretty daunting! I find it upsetting to see him in such pain, and also find it quite waring to try and not take any attack on me personally when sometimes I just want to flip at him. I also would like any advice on helping him to get help - how to find a good counseller, what the stages of treatment are etc. I hear there is a good psychiatrist at a hospital in Samui so I guess that will be our first port of call.

Any advice or experiences would be appreciated! Thanks

hello.... I am Wendy and my husband is Thai too....ur husband's situation is sumthing like mine but he dun have depression jsut maybe he get aggitated easily and loose his patient ...and sumtimes he feels he is not providing good enuff for me and he gets frustrated himself or sumtimes he get frustrated or angry at me for a reason which he is not even suppose to.. he like to make small in into big deal sumtimes but we get over it... I sumtimes jsut leave him alone or he will go into meditation and let him see him own mind... I thik ur hubby shud maybe speak to mine abt his problems he can teach him on how to read him own mind and meditate ....i think what ur hubby is experiencing right now is he is going around in circles in his mind, maybe his father's death have sumthing to do with it, its like a mystery tat he cant solve...

i have frens who are like tat too... but eventually they recovered from it...onece they free themselve from the circle ...

[mssabai]

my neighbor (whom you know) in TNP had serious depression and she went to the doctor on Samui as well (whom I have heard really good things about). my mom is a serious depressive and i had serious depression in the past, but mine was the result of post traumatic stress (maybe same as your bf)- i also have a lot of anxiety which most depressed people don't. but from my experience, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) works a lot better long term than pharmaceuticals do. antidepressants can be a nightmare if you don't get the right ones for your particular diagnosis. they have serious withdrawal symptoms if you need to get off of them, and you have to taper off slowly. also they have a lot of creepy side effects. exercise helps a lot. meditation, writing a journal, eating healthy, getting enough sleep, all that.

I too think therapy is a much better option than meds, however it takes such commitment (and money) I am just not sure if he would stick to it. Just had a chuckle then at the reaction I would get if I asked him to write a journal !

He has been a monk 4 times already but has never followed up with any meditation. I think I will talk to him about this. Weirdly he has expressed an interest in doing yoga, but I am not sure if this had any seriousness to it!

[bina]

mssabai, just a note: also anon has sharp mood swings... when i suggested meditation (he was a good monk for almost a year), he says that he cant meditate when his mind is full and troubled. only when 'wang' i.e. free. thai dont meditate to get calm minds. they meditate when they have calm minds, to concentrate. they first have to do what wendy says her husband does: need to be left alone to work it out in their own minds.

here, for obvsious reasons(far from home, bad living conditions etc) , many of the thai men suffer from clinical depression. only they dont call it that. nor do they recognize that as depression. they tend to drink more which makes it all worse. and they tend to really need a good 8 hours + sleep to maintain an even keel... and sleep is often their answer to dealing with things... and other thai will just say 'think too much makes the head not good' (my best friend, a doctor , is bi polar, in a bad stage now, and my thai friends that have had the not so wonderful pleasure of meeting her in this period just said: she think too much.

i think socioeconomic level tends to dictate as to how the thai male will see what he has as depression or just 'think too much'... the more educated etc, the more accepting of mental disorders or acknowledgment of the their existance. the 'country' the more u are either crazy or just think to much. there were many posts about thai women and depression and mania and treatment...

i think for instance that anon has some anger issues. he just thinks he's 'jai ron'. mental illness in any culture is a difficult subject, but in some, many cultures, it is practically non existant (as a disease i.e.). i live in a society where 90 % of us are considerd to have some form of post trauma /chronic stress syndrome. i could never explain that to anon, but those are the reasons why we act the way we do, respond the way we do at work or other social interactions or whatever.

this probably didnt help with any ideas, but my two shekels worth...

i'd be interested in hearing how thai doctors treat tis, and what they call/describe it in thai...

bina

israel

[Jimjim1968]

Depression is a horrible thing.

I feel that a country like Thailand where people work very long hours puts tremendous strain on its population. It is very important to keep a balance - time to exercise, time to be with your loved ones and time to pursue hobbies and other interests.

The developed world does not allow for this and the children here too just study ALL the time, Saturdays and Sundays. I think this is very wrong and I won't do this with my kids. Did you know there were 16,000 student suicides in India alone last year?

Everyone goes up and down, but I find these things are very important.

1. Eat healthy.

2. Regular exercise.

3. Enough sleep.

Also, the pursuit of money really gets in the way and the banks and governments encouraging credit and borrowing money is morally wrong and crippling to Thai people who are new to this kind of thing and may not think of long term commitments to borrowing large amounts of money.

[meme]

mssabai, just a note: also anon has sharp mood swings... when i suggested meditation (he was a good monk for almost a year), he says that he cant meditate when his mind is full and troubled. only when 'wang' i.e. free. thai dont meditate to get calm minds. they meditate when they have calm minds, to concentrate. they first have to do what wendy says her husband does: need to be left alone to work it out in their own minds.

here, for obvsious reasons(far from home, bad living conditions etc) , many of the thai men suffer from clinical depression. only they dont call it that. nor do they recognize that as depression. they tend to drink more which makes it all worse. and they tend to really need a good 8 hours + sleep to maintain an even keel... and sleep is often their answer to dealing with things... and other thai will just say 'think too much makes the head not good' (my best friend, a doctor , is bi polar, in a bad stage now, and my thai friends that have had the not so wonderful pleasure of meeting her in this period just said: she think too much.

i think socioeconomic level tends to dictate as to how the thai male will see what he has as depression or just 'think too much'... the more educated etc, the more accepting of mental disorders or acknowledgment of the their existance. the 'country' the more u are either crazy or just think to much. there were many posts about thai women and depression and mania and treatment...

i think for instance that anon has some anger issues. he just thinks he's 'jai ron'. mental illness in any culture is a difficult subject, but in some, many cultures, it is practically non existant (as a disease i.e.). i live in a society where 90 % of us are considerd to have some form of post trauma /chronic stress syndrome. i could never explain that to anon, but those are the reasons why we act the way we do, respond the way we do at work or other social interactions or whatever.

this probably didnt help with any ideas, but my two shekels worth...

As usual Bina has made some excellent points here.

I think asking a Thai to medically seek help for"thinking to much"(as they see it, not me!) would even be a hard topic for them to grasp, let alone agree that it could help and then actually taking the step to try it. Not to mention finding help in Thailand would be an obstacle in itself (although sounds like you have found someone in samui so that is a plus!)

Sounds like you are approaching this the best way possible mssabi, getting him to acknowledge weather he thinks he is suffering from depression, asking him if he would try treatment etc. The only thing I could really suggest(and you probably know already) is to talk about it when you guys are not fighting, while he is in the midst of an episode or whenever. I always approach my husband about big/serious things before we go to sleep, he seems the most open to talk then. My friend's Thai bf suffered from some type mood disorder as well. It was crucial for him that he stay away from drinking.

Take care

Edited August 28, 2008 by meme

[Goinghomesoon]

Mssabai are you in Samui? I believe Suan Saranrom psych hospital in Surat Thani has outpatient diagnostics, treatment & counselling available.

[mssabai]

Well we are just coming to the end of this latest depression and I feel exhausted, but relived at the same time. Not too much drama, just a little too much lao kao one night which resulted in a lot of falling over on his part! Theplus side is that after an episode he is particularly lovely as I think he feels guilty about how he is when he was down.

We have talked again about this subject and he is really open to the idea of seeing someone. He is though still connecting it with 'being crazy' (he is hoping to pick up a crazy card in the process which apparently acts as a 'get out of jail free' card here!). At the moment though we are broke and I feel that it will be a lot harder to get him to see a psych at a state psych hospital rather than a sanitised version at a posh private hospital!

Does anyone know if Thaksin in Surat has a psych department as this is preferable to Samui's overpriced Bangkok Inter. I may ut this in the Samui thread..

[Ave]

My boyfriend suffers form depression, and I suspect it may be a kind of bipolar disorder. He can be even for a while, but this is countered by 'manic' periods where he is very energetic and a bit of a loose cannon, then followed with a big old 'down' where he feels completely weighed down by a horrible bleakness. Sometimes these episodes are triggered by an event, however his latest hasn't been and it has made me realise that we have to seriously try and tackle it, as his despair when he is down is pretty heart breaking. He tries to pin his feelings onto something to give himself justification I guess, and will try to antagonise me into fighting with him - again I think to give his feelings some kind of anchor.

I am lucky though in that he is able to talk about these feelings and has a good awareness of his state of mind and what he should and shouldn't do (for instance he stops drinking as this can make the whole issue a lot worse) and I have mentioned (tentatively) that I think it may be time for him to see a doctor. I was surprised that there was no immediate negative reaction, and I feel he may well go for it. This situation is compounded by the fact that his dad killed himself 5 years ago. He has told me that there was no obvious reason for his dad to do this - no debts, no drinking/drug/work problem, loving dad and grandad - which makes me figure that he too suffered from some kind of chemically triggered depression. He has had thoughts of suicide himself I know, but feels that what his dad did was also incredibly selfish; but obviously it is a fear that looms pretty large when I see him so depressed.

Has anyone had an experience of a Thai partner (man or woman) and depression...or in fact any nationality..as it is a first for me and pretty daunting! I find it upsetting to see him in such pain, and also find it quite waring to try and not take any attack on me personally when sometimes I just want to flip at him. I also would like any advice on helping him to get help - how to find a good counseller, what the stages of treatment are etc. I hear there is a good psychiatrist at a hospital in Samui so I guess that will be our first port of call.

Any advice or experiences would be appreciated! Thanks

mssabai, my ex boyfriend often slept his problems off but they are all still there. He still behaves like a psycho if there is a trigger.

As for me, I have started eliminating an early cronic depression coming from some severally unpleasant domestic events, by first understanding that I don't have to rely on other people's help. I never got and could never afford any, anyway. Saying that, if it's possible to receive some professional help better still, though!

I then, identified the problem, finding the solution within myself and visualising that solution. It's very important to concentrate on visualising our future as a victorious one, taking little steps but keep on with the determination to succeed even if it feels that we don't believe it can be possible. It took me quite some time but I got out of that mess all by myself and once and for all. Not easy but possible. Now I'm helping out my parents to understand and eliminate the same depressive state from their life. I usually chant to help myself and others. I find meditation a very good technique, especially for people who have the experience and the knowledge to practice it and control it. For me personally, chanting works more quickly and keeps me more awake and aware of my surroundings so that I can tackle the problem with clarity. I hope that with your love and support your boyfriend finds his way to a permanent happiness. This will probably happen only when he feels ready to fight his depression.

~~~~~~~~~~~

"Paint the vision of your life in your heart as specifically as

possible. That "painting" itself becomes the design of your future.

The power of the heart enables us to actually create with our lives a

wonderful masterpiece in accodance with that design"

[Sheryl]

What you describe sounds very much like Bipolar disorder, and he should see a pyshciatrist for confirmation and (if that's what it is) treatment. Cognitrive therapy is also helpful but with true BPD (or pure depression if severe) medication is necessary.

There was a long thread a while back in the Gneeral forum from a member whose wife has BPD but I don't thin k you will find it encouraging as in that case, the person was not willing to comply with treatment. This is often a problem with people with BPD as they enjoy the manic phase and miss it when the mood swings are controlled by medication.

A course of meditation could indeed be helpful but I do not recommend it until he is either first stabilized on m,edication or a psychiatruist has ruled out BPD. Otherwise there is a risk of triggering a highly disruptive manic episode.

For the same reason he should not self-treat with anti-depressents as these too can trigger an acute manic episode in people with BPD.

The other point to consider is whether he might be taking drugs of any sort, particularly "ya ba" or other stimulent as these would be another possible explanation for the apparent manic episodes. It is not unusual for people with deprerssion to resort to these drugs in an effort to relieve the deopression.

If you are sure he is not taking drugs then I do suspect he has BPD. It is as common in Thailand as anywhere else.

[girlx]

The other point to consider is whether he might be taking drugs of any sort, particularly "ya ba" or other stimulent as these would be another possible explanation for the apparent manic episodes.

definitely a good point