State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[anthrosciguy]

Now Thaksin has sold his share of Man City to The Abu Dahbi clan,does this mean he can use his money too fund these riot even further??

Makes you think eh??

So let's see, according to you Samak is Thaksin's puppet and so Thaksin is funding the people who are trying to provoke violence to bring down Samak's government which is Thaksin's puppet; what was that about thinking?

I hope Thailand gets past this okay, and further hope their political leaders can learn to accept that they won't always be in charge in a democracy. Thailand's people deserve better than this constant attempting to bring down a democratically voted in government via any route other than voting in the next election.

[paulfromphuket]

Folks,

I am seriously concerned about the fact, that some farangs still support this old smelly Samak. May be the effect of "Mad in Thailand" - Ed Karabao should rewrite this song!

What is the point? Don"t copy the Western Democracy (which is also corrupt anyway, but at a different level).

SET, Baht, Tourist cancellations, bad image, investors stepping out.....what more is needed for the Buffalo Samak to resign???

And even there are some farangs who encourage him to lead Thailand into the complete chaos....why that?

Good Night, and let's hope that we have no further bloodshed during this night.

i hope we all can sleep safe in our beds tonight,i wish people could just be honest with each other and fair in their roles in life but i am afraid that society may have made that impossible .lets us have hope for the future but remember that the one thing we learn from history is that we never learn form history.

[kurtgruen]

As intelligence seems to be slowly fading here, I think I will sign off and go to bed. I doubt that Samaks Thugs will attack tonight and if they do, they will again be too drunk and stoned to know what they are doing, so PAD should be safe for another night, I think.

I hope that I will either wake up to a PPP government that stepped down, or a General Strike to bring them down. Hope all remains peaceful through the night, too.

Good night all

[animatic]

The PAD will not stop unless one of their core leaders or puppets gets the job of prime minister. It doesn't take an Einstein to see that. If Samak and the PPP quit and another party is elected that has nothing to do with the PAD, they will start again.

Now you tell me, is that democracy?

That is exactly my concern, That's why it must be prevented that they actually get the chance to run the country, because if that happens Thailand is truly in trouble.

They will make the TRT/PPP criminals look like children

What scare mongers.

Totally supposition, but using them like it is the boggieman coming.

Didn't try to take over before, why suddenly now.

Because YOU suddenly say so...

Say something scary long enough eventually people get scared.

Samak and the other puppets are MUCH scarier

we KNOW they ARE up to something,

as oppossed to PAD who you say you suspect maybe

might decide to do something.

Fear is a weapon / understanding negates it.

[jts-khorat]

Stand down, no way...No Justice - No Peace! Let Samak and his corrupt government resign. I'm sure PAD will stand down after that. (I do believe though, that Khun Sondhi needs to continue his public awareness campaigns, after this is all over, if we want to see real change in this Nation.

So assuming that Samak calls it quits and new elections are going to be scheduled, would that be enough for PAD to stop their unlawfull protest, I highly doubt it, remember the main leadership have some serious problems to deal with and if Samak does just that, they will have to face the music.

I highly doubt it. After the PPP gets kicked out, PAD leaders will be seen as the heroes they truly are. Charges will be dropped against all of them. Union workers will be reinstated and students will be able to return to their Universities without being penalized. That would be my guess anyways.

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

'the heroes theuy really are'; you gotta be kidding us.

If the PAD really wanted to stomp out corruption, Sondhi will sit one cell away from Thaksin for his 1,6 Billion non-performing loan. Samak and his corrupt ministers will fill a whole prison block, interspersed with the figure heads of the PAD for inciting riots and violence. This would be justice.

Now let me guess, does that sound likely?

[Arkady]

Looked like both sides have wanted to provoke a fight - the PAD leaders wanted casualties in order to turn more of the population against the government and maybe force a coup and the government wanted justification for an emergency degree to let the army end the protest. It would be par for the course if the men that were allowed through the police lines and fired the shots were indeed policemen themselves acting under orders. It's unlikely that we will hear anything more about them being tracked down by the cops.

Since Samak won't back down and the military doesn't want to use lethal force or stage another coup, it will probably take more violence to end this situation. I predict the PAD will win one way or another and force a dissolution of Parliament because of the military's halfhearted support for the government but it's is a shaky situation and other outcomes are also possible.

No long term solution is in sight, since the Democrats remain too weak in the North and Northeast to win an election, so the voters from those regions will continue to return corrupt politicians to power which will enrage the middle class Chinese and the elite.

Despite their methods and flaky nationalism it is hard to fault the PAD's aims of cleaning up Thai politics and giving moral support to the judiciary's attempts to introduce rule of law which would not have got as far as it has without the PAD. On the other hand, it is hard to fault the uneducated rural voters for electing corrupt politicians if they seem the only ones willing to do something for the rural poor and pay for votes as well. Even this doesn't look like sustainable rural development to an economist, it is more than cleaner politicians have ever offered them. Thai politics needs to grow up and that is going to take a lot investment in education over the next generation or so.

All the political groupings in Thailand are right wing, including the Thaksinites, who only use populism as a means to power and riches and find the idea of educating the masses and risking spawning labor movements as repulsive as the middle class PAD and the elite do. The rural masses are systematically denied decent education and cannot participate fully in Thai society. Until this changes, will not use their numerical superiority at the ballot box responsibly and make Thai politics grow up and the economy cannot develop enough to satisfy any group.

[Soontorn]

Another bitter lesson that may get us nowhere

By Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation

Published on September 3, 2008

OUR luck could only hold so far. If Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag was right - that everything happening in Thailand is part of a democratic evolution - then we have been getting the hardest possible lesson. Things have come a long, long way from the day when the People's Alliance for Democracy was seemingly a pure ideological force, whose members had nothing more complicated in their hearts than the feeling that something was morally wrong with the Temasek deal.

We have gone through countless soul-searching exercises since an extremely rich politician refused to pay taxes when he should have. Protests were labelled by some as a "blow to democracy", but we thought, "What's wrong with people taking to the streets to enounce corruption?" Then a coup tested our conscience and, just when we thought that was the toughest we could bear, the dissolution of a party that had won unprecedented support from the poor followed.

The coup and disbanding of the Thai Rak Thai Party turned out to be just initial bumps in our roller-coaster quest for the right morals. A reincarnation of Thai Rak Thai swept a general election, a landslide victory that, to some, endorsed democracy but, to others, amplified doubts about the system. When the new government plotted to change the new Constitution, deemed by one side a legacy of the coup and by the other necessary medicine to cure democratic ills, new turmoil erupted. We prayed it wouldn't degenerate into a war, because this is where everyone discards morals that are held so dearly at first and embraces the very means they used to abhor. The wishful thinking ended last week when the PAD lost its patience and took civil disobedience a step too far. The brief seizure of National Broadcast Television and occupation of Government House were provocative and hardly justifiable, and when the opposing camp staged an even more belligerent rally at nearby Sanam Luang, Rajadamnoen wept again.

It's too easy, however, to blame the PAD's provocation, or the rival protesters' blood thirst, or the police's conspicuously poor preparation. The "causes" of Tuesday's tragedy could stretch back years and they have been blurred by the failure of both sides of the conflict to uphold fundamental principles. Where should we start our diagnosis? Should we go as far back as the time when Thaksin Shinawatra was spraying his shares to nominees all over the place and still managed to slip through constitutional safeguards to become ruler of Thailand? Or was Tuesday's infamy a more direct result of his rivals' inability to take election results as his absolution?

We have tempted and teased our fortune - by ignoring guiding values or using them selectively. It comes as no surprise, therefore, that both sides have been claiming that they fight for the same ideal goal - a good political system - yet don't mind killing each other to achieve it. Both share the same bitterness, anger and confusion, and suffer the same curse of flying high one day and having their hopes and dreams upended the next.

How can a nation break apart with its people so alike? Why is our nation so fragile with us so "flexible"?

It seems clear now that we are not divided by ideologies, but rather pure lust for power. Last year's referendum was purportedly on a charter but in reality it was largely over one man. The military that ousted Thaksin practically repeated his tracks, though on a relatively minor scale. The PAD decried the siege of The Nation's headquarters by pro-Thaksin mobs more than two years ago, only to end up terrorising the NBT staff itself last week. The courts are "just" and must be obeyed as long as they rule against our enemies and until the judges turn against us. If Tej was right, our democratic evolution still has a long way to go.

We have learned a lot but have still achieved only a little. One side condemns the other side for sacrificing values and respect for human rights, only to sacrifice its own values and principles. Is there a force stronger than democratic aspirations, one that always lurks to tip our balance? Or is this just a myth about democracy - that the only way to attain it is through breaking its fundamental laws? Will we be able to complete the study and emerge as a competent nation, made healthy through the hardest, most unforgettable lessons?

Or are we stuck and will finally be doomed, because we are using raw instincts to try to achieve something so ideal?

[animatic]

Bangkok Post's Comments

(by Pattnapong Chantranontwong, Editor - Bangkok Post)

We strongly disagree with Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's decision to declare a state of emergency as a means of ending the street demonstrations by the People's Alliance for Democracy. It is only another vain attempt to survive the political crisis he is facing. Army commander-in-chief Gen Anupong Paojinda, who heads the special emergency committee tasked with returning the situation to normal, deserves credit for stating clearly that the army would step in only to prevent any further clashes between the two pressure groups _ the PAD and the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship. The general also noted that the continuing crisis is a political issue and as such it should be solved by political processes, not by force. The prime demand of the PAD is that Mr Samak step down; Mr Samak demands the PAD ends its protest. Mr Samak repeatedly proclaims the legitimacy of his government _ because it was elected.

It is true that his People Power party won the most seats in the general election last December. But winning the election does not mean his government has a mandate to break the law or contravene the constitution. Even disregarding the Election Commission's unanimous decision Tuesday to recommend the dissolution of his party for election fraud, Mr Samak's cabinet has made several decisions considered to be in breach of the constitution. Even the qualifications of some of his cabinet members are doubtful. The Constitution Court ruled that the cabinet's decision to issue a joint communique with Phnom Penh on the Preah Vihear issue was a breach of the charter. The recent appointments of some people, allegedly involved in certain controversial cases, to the boards of Bank of Thailand and the Securities Exchange of Thailand are questionable. As are the PPP's efforts to amend the constitution in favour of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and to enable the party to avoid the dissolution.

These moves are, in fact, not acceptable to the public. Although his government survived a recent censure debate in parliament, it does not mean his government had done nothing wrong. It survived because his coalition has a large majority in the House of Representatives. Even though we also disagree with the PAD holding the country and the people to ransom _ by blocking the traffic, seizing Government House, forcing the closure of three southern airports, stopping trains and planning strikes to disrupt public utilities and bus services _ we agree that the PAD has every right to protest against the government.

However, if neither side agrees to a compromise then the crisis will be never-ending. Mr Samak must admit that he has committed many mistakes during his seven months in the office, and they are enough for him to call it quits. At the same time, the PAD must accept the principle of democracy. If Mr Samak steps down, his party still leads a coalition which controls the House and can legitimately form a new cabinet. The other option is that Mr Samak dissolves the House and calls another general election. Again, the PAD must accept the outcome of the election, no matter how it turns out, and let the party which wins form a new government. These options embody the democratic principle. We strongly disagree with any undemocratic options _ neither a coup nor the appointment of a non-elected government.

Please paste and repaste this one once an hour,

all need to read this and often.

A sticky would be even better.

[animatic]

Stand down, no way...No Justice - No Peace! Let Samak and his corrupt government resign. I'm sure PAD will stand down after that. (I do believe though, that Khun Sondhi needs to continue his public awareness campaigns, after this is all over, if we want to see real change in this Nation.

So assuming that Samak calls it quits and new elections are going to be scheduled, would that be enough for PAD to stop their unlawfull protest, I highly doubt it, remember the main leadership have some serious problems to deal with and if Samak does just that, they will have to face the music.

I highly doubt it. After the PPP gets kicked out, PAD leaders will be seen as the heroes they truly are. Charges will be dropped against all of them. Union workers will be reinstated and students will be able to return to their Universities without being penalized. That would be my guess anyways.

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

'the heroes theuy really are'; you gotta be kidding us.

If the PAD really wanted to stomp out corruption, Sondhi will sit one cell away from Thaksin for his 1,6 Billion non-performing loan. Samak and his corrupt ministers will fill a whole prison block, interspersed with the figure heads of the PAD for inciting riots and violence. This would be justice.

Now let me guess, does that sound likely?

I keep seeing this defaulted loan bit. yada yada yada!

Hundreds of companies went totally tits up after '97,

Sondhi's was one of many, many defaulted loans.

One reason was inflation was so out of control it was IMPOSSIBLE to pay it back.

When no one is buying because the economy is completely collapsed what can be expected.

What was a 100 million loan could suddenly spiral to 500-600 million in PRACTICAL money

Interest rates screaming, bankers freaking and calling in loans early because other loans

were crashing in on them for all sides.

Many just never got over it. All banks lost trillions in over extended debt.

The asia Tiger bubble burst LOUDLY. Sondhi was just another digit in a HUGE fall.

That was the time ALL of ASIA went through this turmoil.

Some people with previously good track records and useble talents prior to the calamity,

made deals from many angles to refinance and get moving again. Sondhi has talent.

Sondhi was clearly one of those, he was a good bet, as his fortunes since then proved.

This was bailing out of functional entreprenuers was ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED by the government

to get Thailand moving again. Sondhi was just one af many defaults, that turned defeat

into jobs and a tax base for Thailand.

So stop trying to say he is this big singular ogre, when a huge percentage of companies and banks

all did the same things to pull their COLLECTIVE bacons out of the fire.

In the end they were quite successful even by 2005 Thailand was booming again.

You are beating a dead horse.

[rhythmworx]

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.

Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

Please correct me if im wrong but invading 2 airports and managing to close them, plus an attempted 3rd raid on hat yai, plus raiding tv broadcasting stations also shutting train lines and roads which lead to arrests of 80 PAD people with firearms, I wouldnt call that demonstrating peacefully...maybe i got something wrong along the way.

Edited September 2, 2008 by rhythmworx

[smokeyjoe2008]

'Not dangerous' to travel to Thailand

Norway's foreign ministry isn't warning against travel to Thailand, despite massive government protests and violence during the night. Tour operators aren't refunding any tickets, either.

"It's not dangerous to travel to Bangkok," claimed Marit Grøtting of tour operator Orkidéekspressen, who returned from Thailand on Monday. She conceded there "were a lot of people at the airport in Phuket," but claimed the situation otherwise was calm.

The government proclaimed a state of emergency in Thailand after violent protests left one person dead. The army was given control of public order. Norway's foreign ministry issued an advisory this week urging Norwegian citizens to maintain awareness, stay away from demonstrations and large gatherings of people, follow media reports and listen to advice from local authorities.

The ministry isn't, however, urging Norwegian citizens to drop any travel plans. Other countries are, and Thai Airways has reported a string of cancellations in its vast network. The local head of Thai Airways in Norway, however, said tourists were not a target of demonstrators trying to overthrow the government in Thailand. "This is a conflict that's not directed at tourists," Hirai said. "The Thais are very aware of the value of tourists in the country."

There were some disruptions at Thai airports over the weekend, but flights were operating as normal on Tuesday. Star Tour currently has around 200 customers in southern Thailand, but company spokesman Lena S Petersson reported no problems. Star Tour's representative in Bangkok said stores were open and there was no reason for concern.

for heavens sake its safe 4 tourists we dont need the scando's to stop cumming

heard from a friend who works at heathrow airport.flights to bangkok were cancelled and delayed on fri sat and sun!!due to fears of saftey to passengers.arrrh as i speak bbc news have just advised agganest all travel to thailand!!!!

[mahtin]

Bangkok Post's Comments

(by Pattnapong Chantranontwong, Editor - Bangkok Post)

The general also noted that the continuing crisis is a political issue and as such it should be solved by political processes, not by force.

And I always thought military intelligence was an oxymoron.

[OJAS]

heard from a friend who works at heathrow airport.flights to bangkok were cancelled and delayed on fri sat and sun!!due to fears of saftey to passengers.arrrh as i speak bbc news have just advised agganest all travel to thailand!!!!

FCO website does not appear to be currently advising against all travel by Brits to Thailand - see

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-li...ceania/thailand

[Tony Clifton]

This is really bad for the tourism , over here in Scandinavia its headline news on all the tv stations .

And even if its no danger to travel , this kind of news will make people here think twice about going to Thailand.

Especially families with kids , high season starts in 3 months so if this goes on I'm sure Thailand will suffer a lot....

Lets hope it will get back to normal soon.

Look at the bright side, it may save a few lives on the roads or keep them away from yet another strange murder plot, maybe save a few jumpers, prevent a few rapes and policemen ripping off tourists or intentionally botching their murder investigations once they've been sent back to their respective countries in a body bag.

Tourism is not what Thailand needs right now.

A very inappropriate post is all I have to say.

With the constant state of denial you live in, I can't see why you'd agree with it.

Concentrate more on NBT instead of me.

Mods, how come some of Joe's posts are blocked while others are not? I want them all blocked.

Why did you block my posts?

Is it because I asked for a source for one of your posts that looked like a news post.

Or because you disagree with my opinions.

Either one seems a bit ******** to me.

Wrong Joe, I sincerely apologize.

You were not blocked.

My earlier mention of a DAAD venturing onto PAd turf, captured and searched for weapons, they found his DAAD paysheet in a pocket.

The camera showed the whole thing, his capture etc.. Paysheet showed he was receiving 500 baht for something and 700 more for something else. 1200 baht and some free booze to go and kill if you feel like going that far... The DAAD guy also confessed he had not received his payment yet, only holding 60 baht and that many in the group had been fooled into going to a celebrity's funeral in Bangkok.

I don't make this sh!t up, neither did PAD it was live and then shown over and over again.

If some of you can't watch ASTV, that's your problem for not getting both extremes of the media, footage NBT will NEVER show you.

I'll be more than glad to provide a link if I get my hands on one.

you believe that the DAAD boss will give paysheet when paying these DAAD mobsters? I don't side the DAAD but this is just not logical.

What's logical about the DAAD , the PTV zombies and their rack record?

Again, I'm not making this up.

[LaoPo]

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

The point is that the PAD formed a political party* already....in MAY 2006 !

PAD = the MASS PARTY = PAD

Their lawyers are probably wiping the dust from the founding papers....

I said it before: Sondhi wants it ALL...

* The Mass Party is the political party of Thailand's People's Alliance for Democracy. PAD

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Party_(Thailand)

New parties sprouting already May 17th, 2006

The People's Alliance for Democracy has decided to jump into the political fray by founding a new party called the "Mass Party". And its one aim is to crusade against Thaksinomics.

The party has an unconventional political agenda. It vows not to field any MP candidates in its first five years.**

"Our objective is to campaign against Thaksinomics," a PAD leader, Somkiat Pongpaibun, said yesterday. "If we field MP candidates, we will be trapped in vicious circles of money politics."

** But...that can change, can't it ?

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/05/17/hea...es_30004216.php

Let me predict something: Once Samak is forced to leave, Sondhi will raise his voice and ask "The People of Thailand":

DO YOU WANT the PAD to govern this Country ? YES or NO ?

So: what does the People want ?

and....the People will follow, like lemmings, their next leader......

LaoPo

Edited September 2, 2008 by LaoPo

[Tony Clifton]

JoeInSurin

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: JoeInSurin.

· View this post

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Is that guy still throwing questions at me?

I apologize. I forgot you chose to ignore legitimate questions that you have no answer for. Good way to get your point across by ignoring people.

Don't worry, Joe. I'm still waiting for for the eel's opinion on General P's sudden appearance in the ranks of the PAD leadership! Good at posting silly pictures, not good at answering salient points!

Quit it with the name calling, unnecessary flaming.

Who were you before you got banned and chose a new nickmname?

I replied to you earlier and you are still twisting this cr@p your way saying I had not answered you about Panlop when it was the first time you did!.

If you can't keep track of your bullsh!t questions, which by the way you only brought in only to divert from two totally unrelated questions I asked SOMEONE ELSE in the first place, then get lost!

My honest reply TO YOU earlier:

"There are two questions I asked above that remain unanswered.

<deleted> does Panlop have to do with what I am asking???

It's the first time you ask me directly about Panlop, I'm not going to get drawn into this right now, I admit that I don't know enough about the man yet (who has time to cover all the side players involved), although I can tell you a rough estimate how many thousands died under Thaksin."

AND the related post at the time in which you spat out your TOTALLY UNRELATED Panlop question whose only purpose was to throw a wrench in the works to save someone from answering to lies he posted, nothing else.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2179694

If anyone clicks on the link above, they will clearly see what your true intention is here.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[rainman]

The PAD will not stop unless one of their core leaders or puppets gets the job of prime minister. It doesn't take an Einstein to see that. If Samak and the PPP quit and another party is elected that has nothing to do with the PAD, they will start again.

Now you tell me, is that democracy?

I'm not saying that Samak is not corrupt, but every other prime minister from any other party will be corrupt too. You can't tell me that any prime minister in Thailand would not take bribes for special favors. The one to take the least amount of bribes was probably Thaksin, because he had enough money himself. Those PAD leaders would take money left and right if they were prime minister.

Now, we can either stick with a corrupt prime minister and watch the country improve, or we can jump from one corrupt prime minister to another every few months, with coups and demonstrations and scare all tourists, businesses and investors away and end up with a country in ruins, chaos and anarchy.

Well said!

People should never expect for a perfect PM.

There's none, and I doubt that there'll be any soon.

As long as he improves the country, citizens have enough foods and funds, it doesnt really matter, the citizens here are expecting far too much of a 'perfect Leader' and when I ask one to name a few of them, they couldnt do so without having any further 'accussions' from the opposition.

There's always haters, so just bear with it, for the best of the people.

Nothing is perfect.

Of course. I thought Samak did a pretty good job. But don't quote me on it. He was surely not perfect but then again I don't really take a close look at Thai politics unless there is political unrest or a coup going on. But if it wasn't for the PAD people making problems, Thailand would have been pretty stable and improving.

And nobody can tell me that the PAD core leaders are doing this for free. Mass demonstrations like these cost a lot of money to the organizers. If they don't get the money returned when they've taken over the government, why would they do it? And how will they get it back? With bribes, of course.

This is not a fight for democracy or voting rights, this is a fight for who gets to keep the money that passes under the table when you're prime minister of Thailand. The people demonstrating on the streets will not get an inch more of democracy no matter which party has the power.

And the people that can afford to camp out on the streets and demonstrate for weeks should try and find a job, rather than demonstrate. Because no person with a full time or even part time job can afford to camp out at the parliament for weeks without getting fired. They're all too lazy to work and enjoy making noise and problems and eat the free food they get from the PAD core leaders.

And don't tell me they can't get a job. Everyone can get a job even if it's just sitting in Sukhumvit begging for money or cleaning shoes at the JJ market.

That's my opinion.

[sjaak327]

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

The point is that the PAD formed a political party* already....in MAY 2006 !

PAD = the MASS PARTY = PAD

Their lawyers are probably wiping the dust from the founding papers....

I said it before: Sondhi wants it ALL...

* The Mass Party is the political party of Thailand's People's Alliance for Democracy. PAD

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Party_(Thailand)

New parties sprouting already May 17th, 2006

The People's Alliance for Democracy has decided to jump into the political fray by founding a new party called the "Mass Party". And its one aim is to crusade against Thaksinomics.

The party has an unconventional political agenda. It vows not to field any MP candidates in its first five years.**

"Our objective is to campaign against Thaksinomics," a PAD leader, Somkiat Pongpaibun, said yesterday. "If we field MP candidates, we will be trapped in vicious circles of money politics."

** But...that can change, can't it ?

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/05/17/hea...es_30004216.php

Let me predict something: Once Samak is forced to leave, Sondhi will raise his voice and ask "The People of Thailand":

DO YOU WANT the PAD to govern this Country ? YES or NO ?

So: what does the People want ?

and....the People will follow, like lemmings, their next leader......

LaoPo

As long as they do just that under the current constitution, it would be absolutely fine by me. Somehow I still think that this is not their intention. But maybe that's me, I just don't trust the PAD leadership, too much contradictions and bullshit.

[rainman]

I just don't trust the PAD leadership, too much contradictions and bullshit.

Agreed. Anyone that stages mass protests, raids TV stations, occupies the parliament, closes down airports, threatens to cut off electricity, water and telecommunications is not qualified to run a government, but belongs in a mental institution.

[Tony Clifton]

As long as they do just that under the current constitution, it would be absolutely fine by me. Somehow I still think that this is not their intention. But maybe that's me, I just don't trust the PAD leadership, too much contradictions and bullshit.

This government and it's predecessor have brought mostly nothing but what's highlighted in red, PLUS a ridiculous abundance of criminal cases involving HUNDREDS of their clearly unfit members.

A political party costume draped over a crime syndicate, nothing else.

Abuse by both sides of Lèse Majesté aside, PAD have been throwing hundreds of personal accusations around the clock against these individuals and I have yet to see a winning lawsuit against ANYONE who ever made accusations on a PAD stage. Strangely, lawsuits right and left used to be he norm for these crooks over that last 8 years. The guilty parties nowadays simply don`t rattle too much when they hear the truth spoken out loud, afraid some of the multiple other scandals they`re involved in will also be exposed.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[sjaak327]

Well, while I don't care for TRT or PPP, I do seem to remember some ridiculous and unproven claims made by Khun Sondhi among others. One very nice example was the whole Erawan Shrine bullshit.

Of course Thaksin and co have been at the same game. Like I said, both sides are crooks, but up until now one side, (at least for now) is part of a legitimate coalition government.

I'm getting more tired of the bullshit each and every day. And I assume I'm far from the only one.

Edited September 2, 2008 by sjaak327

[sriracha john]

I want all of you to see these videos. I am totally disgusted with the current situation.

http://www.youtube.com/user/garugaruman

Tremendously Powerful Videos.... Best Compilation of Photos On Thai Topic Ever...

Thaivisa Video Link of the Year...

*Oughta be required viewing for participation in topic.*

Highly recommend Full Screen Viewing and with Sound .... UP

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Golf, my good friend, you never cease to amaze me.

Thank you so much for sending this and KUDOS mark mark to its home-made creator :

October 1973?

October 6, 1976?

May, 1992?

IF i have posted in correctly, I believe that's Video one, two, and three above.

What have we learned?

NONE!!!

Golf... please talk to us more... what are your thoughts today? Please share them with the forum. They are invaluable.

What can Thailand do this morning????

Edited September 2, 2008 by sriracha john

[hardy1943]

Well, while I don't care for TRT or PPP, I do seem to remember some ridiculous and unproven claims made by Khun Sondhi among others. One very nice example was the whole Erawan Shrine bullshit.

Of course Thaksin and co have been at the same game. Like I said, both sides are crooks, but up until now one side, (at least for now) is part of a legitimate coalition government.

I'm getting more tired of the bullshit each and every day. And I assume I'm far from the only one.

RIGHT ON !!!!

[sriracha john]

EC resolves to seek PPP's dissolution

BANGKOK: -- The Election Commission Tuesday voted unanimously to seek an order of the Constitution Court to dissolve the People Power Party.

The Election Commission Tuesday voted unanimously to seek an order of the Constitution Court to dissolve the People Power Party in connection of vote buying by its former Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat.

The EC voted that the PPP had to be held responsible for vote buying committed by Yongyuth so the EC would file a suit with the Constitution Court, asking the court to dissolve the party.

-- The Nation 2008-09-02

This is the sort of government that has this sort of party that has this sort of man in Senior Management

From the thread on this government's Deputy Leader...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Deputy-Leade...ty-t148479.html

Deputy Leader Of The People Power Party To Stand Trial For Attempted Murder, Former Thaksin Cabinet Minister and 7 Police Officers accused

Yongyuth to stand trial for attempted murder

Court accepts case filed by elderly couple

The Ayutthaya provincial court yesterday accepted a case filed by an elderly couple accusing Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Deputy Leader of the People Power Party, of attempted murder in a raid which saw police riddle their house with bullets three years ago.

Seven police officers are named as co-accused in the case. A team of lawyers from the Lawyers Council of Thailand is representing the couple in court.

Yongyuth and the other accused officers, except Pol Sgt-Maj Chakkrapob, appeared in court to hear the charges in person.

The court has issued an arrest warrant for the officer who failed to show up. The first hearing for the case has been set for Nov 27. Charges include attempted murder, trespassing on private property, and malfeasance.

On July 7, 2004, Yongyuth, while serving as PM's Office Minister in the Thaksin administration, led a security task force in a night raid on a house owned by Udom and Nisai Satakurama in Ayutthaya's Bang Sai district.

Mrs Udom said Yongyuth and 50 armed police officers destroyed the railings before storming the house and firing indiscriminately inside. She said she and her husband ran for cover behind a refrigerator.

When the firing stopped, the defendants held them at gunpoint while searching their house, although nothing illegal was found inside, Mrs Udom said in her lawsuit. Mrs Udom told reporters after leaving the courtroom that she had received threatening letters warning her to withdraw the lawsuit. She said even her five lawyers had been threatened and three of them have decided to pull out of the case.

A former TRT MP for Chiang Rai, Mr Yongyuth is regarded as one of the most loyal supporters of deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/16Oct2007_news08.php

Hence the name for this government's Deputy Leader:

MR. REFRIGERATOR

"People's Exhibit # 1, Your Honor"

Edited September 2, 2008 by sriracha john

[Richard W]

I agree--I watched the General on lunchtime TV and when a foreign lady journalist asked him why the military wasn't doing the bidding of the lawfully elected Govt.--well, his answer was somewhat telling--like Ando says--right or wrong the army of any country should be following the insructions of the govt.--TIT.

No, this is a constitutional monarchy and the army ultimately answers to HM as head of state, not the government. HM has made his views on use of violent measures very clear. Samak might want the army to go in with guns, gas and sticks but his instructions are subordinate.

While Crushdepth is probably giving the correct explanation, there is another objection to Haybilly's assertion. The Nuremberg Tribunal established that following orders is not always a defence.

[sriracha john]

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

The point is that the PAD formed a political party* already....in MAY 2006 !

any update on that 28-Month Old article?

[Lozza]

George, Ozsamurai you are doing a brilliant job.

It is a pleasure to read your posts.

[LaoPo]

I don't think PAD is interested in forming a political party, although, this could change, as membership grows and goals get reevaluated.

The point is that the PAD formed a political party* already....in MAY 2006 !

any update on that 28-Month Old article?

If there's anybody on Thaivisa who can find an update, it's you SJ, just you

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

George, Ozsamurai you are doing a brilliant job.

It is a pleasure to read your posts.

Are you saying you've read all posts of both Gentlemen since you became a member on 2008-06-21 ?

WOW...

LaoPo

[blaze]

Another bitter lesson that may get us nowhere

By Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation

Published on September 3, 2008

OUR luck could only hold so far. If Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag was right - that everything happening in Thailand is part of a democratic evolution - then we have been getting the hardest possible lesson. Things have come a long, long way from the day when the People's Alliance for Democracy was seemingly a pure ideological force, whose members had nothing more complicated in their hearts than the feeling that something was morally wrong with the Temasek deal.

We have gone through countless soul-searching exercises since an extremely rich politician refused to pay taxes when he should have. Protests were labelled by some as a "blow to democracy", but we thought, "What's wrong with people taking to the streets to enounce corruption?" Then a coup tested our conscience and, just when we thought that was the toughest we could bear, the dissolution of a party that had won unprecedented support from the poor followed.

The coup and disbanding of the Thai Rak Thai Party turned out to be just initial bumps in our roller-coaster quest for the right morals. A reincarnation of Thai Rak Thai swept a general election, a landslide victory that, to some, endorsed democracy but, to others, amplified doubts about the system. When the new government plotted to change the new Constitution, deemed by one side a legacy of the coup and by the other necessary medicine to cure democratic ills, new turmoil erupted. We prayed it wouldn't degenerate into a war, because this is where everyone discards morals that are held so dearly at first and embraces the very means they used to abhor. The wishful thinking ended last week when the PAD lost its patience and took civil disobedience a step too far. The brief seizure of National Broadcast Television and occupation of Government House were provocative and hardly justifiable, and when the opposing camp staged an even more belligerent rally at nearby Sanam Luang, Rajadamnoen wept again.

It's too easy, however, to blame the PAD's provocation, or the rival protesters' blood thirst, or the police's conspicuously poor preparation. The "causes" of Tuesday's tragedy could stretch back years and they have been blurred by the failure of both sides of the conflict to uphold fundamental principles. Where should we start our diagnosis? Should we go as far back as the time when Thaksin Shinawatra was spraying his shares to nominees all over the place and still managed to slip through constitutional safeguards to become ruler of Thailand? Or was Tuesday's infamy a more direct result of his rivals' inability to take election results as his absolution?

We have tempted and teased our fortune - by ignoring guiding values or using them selectively. It comes as no surprise, therefore, that both sides have been claiming that they fight for the same ideal goal - a good political system - yet don't mind killing each other to achieve it. Both share the same bitterness, anger and confusion, and suffer the same curse of flying high one day and having their hopes and dreams upended the next.

How can a nation break apart with its people so alike? Why is our nation so fragile with us so "flexible"?

It seems clear now that we are not divided by ideologies, but rather pure lust for power. Last year's referendum was purportedly on a charter but in reality it was largely over one man. The military that ousted Thaksin practically repeated his tracks, though on a relatively minor scale. The PAD decried the siege of The Nation's headquarters by pro-Thaksin mobs more than two years ago, only to end up terrorising the NBT staff itself last week. The courts are "just" and must be obeyed as long as they rule against our enemies and until the judges turn against us. If Tej was right, our democratic evolution still has a long way to go.

We have learned a lot but have still achieved only a little. One side condemns the other side for sacrificing values and respect for human rights, only to sacrifice its own values and principles. Is there a force stronger than democratic aspirations, one that always lurks to tip our balance? Or is this just a myth about democracy - that the only way to attain it is through breaking its fundamental laws? Will we be able to complete the study and emerge as a competent nation, made healthy through the hardest, most unforgettable lessons?

Or are we stuck and will finally be doomed, because we are using raw instincts to try to achieve something so ideal?

Very good post Soontorn- I think though that you left out one very important factor that divides the nation- and that is the profound income gap between the wealthy minority and the poor majority- with Thaksin, without Thaksin- with corruption in gov't, without corruption in gov't- that discrepency will eventually manifest itself in a deeply polarized and antagonistic society-