State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[sriracha john]

btw, the last he was yelling at journalists.... in case you're unaware, the smiling vendor is typical of Thais who smile during uncomfortable situations they find themselves in...

So you say, I would say that she thoroughly approves of whatever Samak is saying/doing. Sorry, I forgot, you know so much more about Thailand than anyone else!

So says anyone that's been following the news for more than 2 weeks and is familar with his famed market toilet outrage. I know only as much as others who observe and remember.

Let's just debate the issues here, and leave Samak's looks out of it.

I repeat again... it's not about his looks. Look deeper.

They are pictures of his soul and heart... not his outward physical shortcomings (those, he can't control much)

By the way, I know that you and certain others feel that this forum is your personal plaything, but the events of the last few weeks have actually caused many other TV members to join in with their views, all of which I welcome. For or against, I thought TV was open to all. Do you disagree?

I welcome any and all discussion as long as it's couched in a non-rule breaking manner. As you and "certain others" seem to have difficulty abiding by those stipulations as evidence by your and their deletions it makes difficult for the rest of everyone else.

Edited September 7, 2008 by sriracha john

[thaigene2]

Sriracha John (or any Moderator) -

Why are you (SJ) permitted to begin topics in the Thailand Newsclippings folder? I note that you are neither an Administrator nor a Moderator. THis isn't a dig - just a question since it seems you are the only one who is not the above categories that posts new topics there.

[sriracha john]

back to the topic at hand...

Police affirm no use of force against rallies

Deputy Commander of the National Police Police General Jongrak Jutanont attended a meeting to evaluate the ongoing People's Alliance for Democracy rally yesterday along with investigative officers at the Metropolitan Police Investigation Center.

The meeting concluded a report of the PAD clash with the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD).

Police General Jongrak affirmed that police will continue to use their security measures to deter clashes and will not use violence or force. He asked that students joining in the rallies use their better discretion as they may be violating the Emergency Decree.

The Deputy Commander also accepted donations of food, snacks and drinks to be distributed to on duty police monitoring the rallies.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-07

[sriracha john]

Sriracha John (or any Moderator) -

Why are you (SJ) permitted to begin topics in the Thailand Newsclippings folder? I note that you are neither an Administrator nor a Moderator. THis isn't a dig - just a question since it seems you are the only one who is not the above categories that posts new topics there.

Re-read the index of the News Clipping Forum, there are many, many threads started by non-admin/mods besides myself.

It's an Admin/Mod decision to do so... beyond that I'd defer to them.

[ubonjoe]

I could be called a "Thaksinista" for the following question. But I don't care. Sticks and stones may hurt me but words never will. Not to say that some might get me PO'd for little bit.

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

[sriracha john]

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

the current political party status AFAIK...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2198506

[kurtgruen]

I could be called a "Thaksinista" for the following question. But I don't care. Sticks and stones may hurt me but words never will. Not to say that some might get me PO'd for little bit.

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

I believe the idea is to bring down this corrupt government coaliton. It the government stays, it will find a way to change the constitution and it's vote buying activities by it's executive will go unpunished. Yes, Not just the PPP but all parties, in which the executive is found to have been involved in vote buying, during this last election, need to be disolved.

Thaksin is a convicted criminal, who is on the run, so the only things I am concerned with with him, is that he gets his assets taken away and his diplomatic passport, which should have been taken away a long time ago. So getting rid of a government that is defending and enabling Thaksin is important, too, because right now, the government, (or at least the majority of it), is aiding and protecting a convicted criminal.

Gotta run, major lightening storm here

[DanielS]

I think it is good for Thailand and other countries in the world to save the democracy One man One vote and that the majority of the parlament is elected.

Thailand had elections in December last year, and the Samak government have a stabile majority behind them in the parlament and among the thai people.

The people in the PAD are a smal group from the loosers in the elections.

Can You mr Gruen tell me any democratic country in the world where a smal group from the loosers have the right to order the government to step down after six month.

The elected government always have the right to rewrite the constitution. This is the fact in every democracy in the world.

And as far as I understand they want to rewrite paragraphs written after the last military coup.

[sriracha john]

BBC:

Samak also said that he still planned to go a UN General Assembly meeting in New York on 25 September.

"I will go to speak at the United Nations, even though Thaksin went and speak there and did not return," Samak said.

[ubonjoe]

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

the current political party status AFAIK...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2198506

Thanks Was getting ready to move over there to get an update. Got nocked off line by a thunderstorm for a while.

Actually was just wondering why I always see PPP mentioned in the vote buying comments. They are not the only ones that have done it.

No answer for question number two yet.

[Tony Clifton]

Samak is quite a gambler thinking he's going to whine at the UN 18 days from now.

He's got some nerve going there after his multiple pro-Burmese junta comments.

[sriracha john]

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

the current political party status AFAIK...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2198506

Thanks Was getting ready to move over there to get an update. Got nocked off line by a thunderstorm for a while.

Actually was just wondering why I always see PPP mentioned in the vote buying comments. They are not the only ones that have done it.

No answer for question number two yet.

As the biggest party in the government, their dissolution, if it occurs, would have the biggest impact. That could explain why amonsgt the media and posters it's a more common topic. In individual red/yellow carding, they were also the biggest violaters (disportionately high relative to their overall larger size over the other parties).

As for the second question... the main dissolution thread will reflect that these cases have basically been processed on a first come, first serve basis... with Chart Thai and Matchima being investigated first, their case was forwarded to the Court first.

With PPP, the dragging on of Yongyuth's individual case (mainly by him) accounted for the time lag in PPP's case following later and so forth. The EC and Courts seem to be doing all of this chronological order.

Edited September 7, 2008 by sriracha john

[Artisi]

Samak also said that he still planned to go a UN General Assembly meeting in New York on 25 September.

"I will go to speak at the United Nations, even though Thaksin went and speak there and did not return," Samak said.

Seems like a great opportunity to once again get rid of a corrupt PM - we can only hope.

[Old Man River]

Can You mr Gruen tell me any democratic country in the world where a smal group from the loosers have the right to order the government to step down after six month.

Since you are on the subject, can you tell me any country in the world that has the same political make up (power groups) as Thailand?

Don't spend too much time on this because there are none.

Hence, don't expect Thailand to have the same type of democracy as other countries.

[ubonjoe]

I could be called a "Thaksinista" for the following question. But I don't care. Sticks and stones may hurt me but words never will. Not to say that some might get me PO'd for little bit.

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

I believe the idea is to bring down this corrupt government coaliton. It the government stays, it will find a way to change the constitution and it's vote buying activities by it's executive will go unpunished. Yes, Not just the PPP but all parties, in which the executive is found to have been involved in vote buying, during this last election, need to be disolved.

Thaksin is a convicted criminal, who is on the run, so the only things I am concerned with with him, is that he gets his assets taken away and his diplomatic passport, which should have been taken away a long time ago. So getting rid of a government that is defending and enabling Thaksin is important, too, because right now, the government, (or at least the majority of it), is aiding and protecting a convicted criminal.

Gotta run, major lightening storm here

A lot of comments have been made in the media and elsewhere about the fairness of the punishment that is called out in the constitution.

What I can't understand is all the uproar about trying to change it. Normally when a change is made it is seldom made retroactive. In other words it won't wipe out any past or current charges or punishment.

[sjaak327]

I believe the idea is to bring down this corrupt government coaliton. It the government stays, it will find a way to change the constitution and it's vote buying activities by it's executive will go unpunished. Yes, Not just the PPP but all parties, in which the executive is found to have been involved in vote buying, during this last election, need to be disolved.

Thaksin is a convicted criminal, who is on the run, so the only things I am concerned with with him, is that he gets his assets taken away and his diplomatic passport, which should have been taken away a long time ago. So getting rid of a government that is defending and enabling Thaksin is important, too, because right now, the government, (or at least the majority of it), is aiding and protecting a convicted criminal.

Gotta run, major lightening storm here

He is not a convicted criminal, your dear Sondhi on the other hand is.

I don't get it, what's with the fixation on Thaksin, forget about him, he is gone, and probably for a long time.

[sjaak327]

A lot of comments have been made in the media and elsewhere about the fairness of the punishment that is called out in the constitution.

What I can't understand is all the uproar about trying to change it. Normally when a change is made it is seldom made retroactive. In other words it won't wipe out any past or current charges or punishment.

Well they actualy did that the last time, after the coup, so that the people who were guilty of commiting the coup, where left off the hook....

But of course that was allright with the PAD, they were greatly missed in that period, in fact they cheered the coup. Says enough about what they stand for.

[LaoPo]

Does any body know if the students are gathering for this march in BKK or has it been washed out?

Here is your answer, from the Post. I didnt' see much else on it. The article is longer, I'm only quoting the first few lines...

(BangkokPost.com) - About a thousand school and university students paraded to the Democracy Monument in Bangkok on Saturday evening. They called on more youths to be politically active.

A group of students from 80 educational institutes under the name “Young PAD (People’s Alliance for Democracy)” marched to the Democracy Monument to voice their political views.

Key members of the group told their young supporters to only listen to their orders and gather in peace, while guard volunteers were providing security for them.

That rather gives the game away.....I make that just over 12 students from each institution.

I posted before about the unique feature of the PAD demo, i.e. mainly well-to-do, middle class people at the demos, supported and financed by the really well-off. Backed up by a very large contingent of the rural poor from the South, enjoying a few days holiday with free food and a very generous (to them!) cash bounty. Noticeable by their very absence are the massed ranks of students, traditionally the vanguard of any demonstration. What happened indeed to all those 200,000 state employees who were going to plunge the Country into darkness and chaos?

So, no students, no workers! Does that not ring a bell somewhere? Not suprising as I've never heard of students and workers fighting to abolish the right to vote and to install an appointed dictatorship in partnership with the military!

Apart from the above, the 80 educational Institutes were just 21 a day before.....

Also, suddenly there was this article in the Nation about the "Young PAD" and a few members wrote about it like "curious what's going to happen at that bridge with the "Young PAD".

NOBODY ever wrote about "the Young PAD" before...

Hmmmm, strange how articles in newspapers are believed, especially if they're pro Sondhi.

LaoPo

Edited September 7, 2008 by LaoPo

[sriracha john]

Samak is quite a gambler thinking he's going to whine at the UN 18 days from now.

He's got some nerve going there after his multiple pro-Burmese junta comments.

I'm wondering if he'll lose it, ala Manuel....

Video Link:

http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/5112544712_001.do

Manuel Noriega waves a machete above his head during a speech to a cheering audience in Panama City in 1988.

[younghusband]

He sure loves skating on thin ice, and he already fell through once

Seems like Jakrapop isn't the only one with a taste for skating on thin ice

Are you hinting you'd love to see me suspended or banned?

No of course not: it was just a mild tease.Those who conspire to get members who hold differing opinions banned -we all know who they are -are obviously rather sad creatures.

I welcome all views preferably if they are argued out rationally.

[thaigene2]

I could be called a "Thaksinista" for the following question. But I don't care. Sticks and stones may hurt me but words never will. Not to say that some might get me PO'd for little bit.

Why is there hardly ever a mention of the other three parties that have charges pending against them?

Anybody ever wonder why they are still pending?

Good question - I wonder if the answer is that the PAD and their elite backers are not really interested in Thaksin/PPP, but are using this to deconstruct one-person-one vote for good?

Take your question to the next level. If the PAD goal really is, as they stated originally, to force the government to fall - then all they had to do was publically ridicule and go after the minority partners in the coalition right? After all, they are the weakest links in the chain - and coalitions are notoriously weak. If even one or two of the coalition partners were forced to drop their backing of the PPP, then Samak's government would fall within weeks to a no-confidence motion - usually a serious topic like a money-bill (e.g. the budget bill that apparently just passed).

That's why my strong suspicion is that the people behind the PAD are trying to force a coup and eventually bring about an end to Democracy for many years to come with an appointed (fascist) government to ensure their own best interests are never again challenged by one-person-one-vote. Thaksin is a side-show, but as a focal-point of considerable hatred by the unquestioning middle-classes, he works like a charm to carry out their dirty little elitist plan.

Edited September 7, 2008 by thaigene2

[kurtgruen]

Can You mr Gruen tell me any democratic country in the world where a smal group from the loosers have the right to order the government to step down after six month.

Since you are on the subject, can you tell me any country in the world that has the same political make up (power groups) as Thailand?

Don't spend too much time on this because there are none.

Hence, don't expect Thailand to have the same type of democracy as other countries.

I think you know very well why the government is asked to step down...by the PAD, by the Unions, by the Students, by the Elections Commission...by a lot of ordinary people...BECAUSE...they have broken the law and violated the Elections Act, by their Executive being involved in vote buying and also, because they protect a known Criminal (Thaksin), as I have outlined before, who still runs around with a diplomatic passport, when he has arrest warrants against him and has fled the country.

Is that so hard to understand.

[Artisi]

Re Samarks UN visit

Wonder if Samark will try to outstare or hid in the loo for an hour or so if the Western media start asking difficult and leading questions. That's of course if they even bother as he is more than likely be a non entity by the time he arrives there.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Artisi

[paulfromphuket]

It’s time Thai society spoke frankly: Thoughts on Kasian

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=791

worth a read

[sriracha john]

He sure loves skating on thin ice, and he already fell through once

Seems like Jakrapop isn't the only one with a taste for skating on thin ice

Are you hinting you'd love to see me suspended or banned?

No of course not: it was just a mild tease.Those who conspire to get members who hold differing opinions banned -we all know who they are -are obviously rather sad creatures.

Not nearly as sad as those posters, whoever they are, who attempt to distort reality by excusing forum rule breakers as saying only that they held different viewpoints.

[Artisi]

"Is that so hard to understand. "

For some people - yes

[kurtgruen]

BTW, Mr. Daniel S., in case you missed my comments on how I see the situation, here they are again. Please do tell me (and do use facts), which part of them are inaccurate...

First you have the PPP buying votes, Thaksin style, pretty much right out in the open, during the last election,knowing fully well that this was illegal and could lead to being disolved as a party. This of course didn't stop them, because it was the only way for them to get into power in the first place. They figured they could just change the laws, once they got into power and sweep all the vote buying under the carpet. (Or maybe they were that stupid to think they wouldn't get caught, but I want to give them a little bit of credit and assume that they just planned on changing the laws and pardon themselves for the crimes)

Then, after being held accountable by the Elections Commission and other opposing interests, they try to change the Constitution (without a Referendum), just to save their butts. (Wanting in effect to make vote buying more or less legal again. Not really legal, but without political consequence)

Next, the PAD steps up it's Protests and asks them to resign (by taking over Government house, etc.)

After that Samak sends in the Police to disburse them, but the closest thing they come to is breaking down Gate 5 for a while. The Protesters remain.

Next, Samak tells his Police only to carry shields and no Batons or other weapons.

Next, the PPP mobilizes Pro Government Demonstrators (by paying a lot of them and by PPP party members giving pep talk speeches). They truck them down to Bangkok, let them get drunk and riled up and then the police, together with the Pro-Government Demonstrators marched towards the PAD Rally site, armed with machetties, clubs and other weapons.

There, there is a little, well coordinated "ballet" of the Police line stepping aside, while demonstators freely rush past them, weapons in hand.

Then, Pro Government and PAD clash, one person gets killed, somewhere around 43 injured, which gives Samak the excuse and power to have his STATE OF EMERGENCY (which this forum is about, for those of you who missed it).

Freshly armed with the SOE, Samak tells the Army Chief to remove the demonstratrors, but the army chief tells him that he will not use the army against the people and that he wants this resolved peacefully, by other means.

Then after a throwing a few temper tantrums, Samak sees another way to maybe save the day and most of all the life of his party. He announced a referendum. A smart move, because now, when he finally gets forced to step down, he can claim that he tried to resolve this by giving the people a voice in it. The referendum of course, he fully well knows will take a long time to organize, so the government Propaganda machine would have a long time to cloud out all the main issues with more smoke and mirror tricks.

Now fact is, the the Election Commission ruled that the PPP must be disolved, because of the vote buying activities of their executive. This ruling is now passed on to the Supreme court, who will most likely enforce it. Again, though, it will take time. Fast tracking the Supreme Court ruling would be a great way to resolve this situation quickly. In which case, PPP will probably get disolved, a new election will be called, the PPP will run under it's new name Phua Something, I forget the name.

If the PPP gets disolved, they could do the unmentionable...they could try to compete without vote buying. Maybe we could actually have an election without any vote buying and see what happens. Not sure how to stop vote buying...

...maybe by having Scrutineers of every party present at every polling station, plus international observers. Not perfect, but a good start in trying to ensure fair elections, I think.

As long as there is blatant corruption in government, there will always be opposition to it, as there should be.

The PAD show the people, that a corrupt government can be removed by the masses.

Now, I don't expect everyone to support the PAD, but I would expect that most people would want to get rid of this current, corrupt government. (Unless they don't have a problem with government corruption)

Bottom line is, you've got to get rid of this corrupt government first! That should be in the forefront of people's minds. Everything else it only smoke and mirrors.

[younghusband]

He sure loves skating on thin ice, and he already fell through once

Seems like Jakrapop isn't the only one with a taste for skating on thin ice

Are you hinting you'd love to see me suspended or banned?

No of course not: it was just a mild tease.Those who conspire to get members who hold differing opinions banned -we all know who they are -are obviously rather sad creatures.

Not nearly as sad as those posters, whoever they are, who attempt to distort reality by excusing forum rule breakers as saying only that they held different viewpoints.

The preoccupation some people have with rules and regulations is admirable, but very much a below decks characteristic where non commissioned ranks must focus on receiving and implementing orders.They don't normally tolerate much diversity of opinion.The officer class thinks a little differently.Obviously rules should normally be followed but occasionally there's a need for what the Royal Navy knows as the "Nelson touch".

Stand easy now (if that's the appropriate term to address someone hunched over their laptop).

[kurtgruen]

It’s time Thai society spoke frankly: Thoughts on Kasian

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=791

worth a read

I have a problem with the term "mistakes", in the article. Vote buying and aiding a criminal on the run (Thaskin, by refusing to cancel his diplomatic passport) are crimes, not just mistakes, in my opinion and as far as I know also in the opinion of Thai law.

[paulfromphuket]

It's time Thai society spoke frankly: Thoughts on Kasian

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=791

worth a read

I have a problem with the term "mistakes", in the article. Vote buying and aiding a criminal on the run (Thaskin, by refusing to cancel his diplomatic passport) are crimes, not just mistakes, in my opinion and as far as I know also in the opinion of Thai law.

that is indeed a point however he makes many and in particular

Under the unique circumstance of Thai society,

1. Certain ideologies are more equal than the others, in terms of acceptance or refusal by choice, or merely criticism.

2. The more extreme the demonstration of people's public commitment to a certain ideology, the more forceful their dismissal of other ideologies or individuals and rational arguments from the political space.

3. Not only can straightforward criticism not be expressed, simply not identifying with 'a certain ideology' risks being subject to a charge of being against it, with a penalty that is too frightening.

4. The culture of rational analysis and argumentation in political and social issues is weak, as usually seen when well-researched works are vehemently dismissed and opposed by even those who never read them, while hearsay or word of mouth is often held and readily used to arouse violent sentiments.