Another Formula 1 Farce

[Yorkie]

The best ending to an F1 race for years and the stewards made it into a farce!

Obviously Ferrari got to the inquiry first with their million!

[lazeeboy]

what happened?

[Thaddeus]

This.......

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/for...icle4700145.ece

A total travesty.

[Samuian]

what happened?

ah well.....some think it'sthe "old Ferrari conspiracy"... Hamilton got penalized, after a questionable maneuver in the last, which the stewards think gave him the needed advantage over Raikoennen who lead the race for 42 rounds of 44 rounds!:

Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second.

Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen. McLaren plan to appeal the decision...

Source: F1 website

[bdenner]

It's an absolute discrace From my understanding of the rules Hamilton didn't do anything wrong -- well accept for driving for McLaren

There is a petition circulating if you are interested, some 19000 signatures thus far.

Petition

[LaoPo]

Triple world champion Niki Lauda has described the stewards' decision as "the worst judgement in F1 history".

"It is the most perverted judgment I have ever seen," said the Austrian, who won the title for both Ferrari and McLaren.

"It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/7603179.stm

LaoPo

[angiud]

[kartman]

What you have to realise is that motorsport stewards even from the lowest categories normally have a chip on their shoulders(not the money to compete/failed driver/failed owner etc etc) and see a stewards position as a way of remaining connected to the sport in a influential way. Of course when a incident like this happens they see their moment of power and go totally over the top, otherwise they they are restricted to driving to the pub(perhaps in a Ferrari) and boring everyones arse off with how they could have been World Champion in another "era" but for etc etc.

[pauls2979]

that was the best f1 race i had ever seen

Lewis won it fair and square , and the other drivers know it

[Who, me ?]

what happened?

ah well.....some think it'sthe "old Ferrari conspiracy"... Hamilton got penalized, after a questionable maneuver in the last, which the stewards think gave him the needed advantage over Raikoennen who lead the race for 42 rounds of 44 rounds!:

Ferrari's Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday's Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren' Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld moving up to second.

Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen. McLaren plan to appeal the decision...

Source: F1 website

This comment about questionable manoeuver is not right

Hamilton was coming back fast on Raikkonen, and was anyway much faster on the wet

In the battle for first, Hamilton cut the chicane, in order to avoid a crash, and then, in accordance with the regulation, he backed down to give the lead back to Raikkonen, before attacking him again. If he had not done this, then his action would have been questionable, and penalty quite OK. But Hamilton won , in full respect of the rules.

Hopefully, his stolen points will be given back asap....

[skydiver77]

The best race this year, right after the most boring,[no overtaking] turned into an absolute shambles by a moronic ruling.

Lauda's comments said it all.

F.1. has been turned into a laughing stock.

Sorry for Hamilton and likewise for Raikkonen. It's a slim chance, but he could win the championship riding on Hamilton's back.

[Yorkie]

Quote:

Martin Whitmarsh added: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'.

"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis’s actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."

Unquote

Source: The Official Formula 1 Website

[kartman]

Race control(professionals) are not the stewards, obviously what they "beleived"(key word) did not have any input in the stewards(amatuers) decision. Back to Post "8"

[H2oDunc]

I fully agree that this was a travesty. It was the most exciting finish to an F1 race Ive seen and Ive been a lifelong fan. Kimi forced Hamiton onto the run off rather than give in to him at the corner. Hamilton the gave back track position to Raikonen. He was 6kph faster than Hamilton as they crossed the start finish line according to the Maclaren data. Hamilton then tried to pass again to which Raikone swerved first left then right to try to block him, a manouver which alone is illegal as you are only supposed to move the once to try to block, Hamilton was clearly the faster car and managed to out brake him. If Raikonen had managed to keep the car on the track till the end he may have had a case but as he CRASHED into a wall on a straight bit of track he has no case. If the appeal fails then F1 will be serverly damaged by this. As an aside the guy who brought the case against hamilton tried to get a rally driver penalised and fined for bringing the sport into disripute for

Having a beard !!!!! SAY NO MORE

[Yorkie]

Hamilton then tried to pass again to which Raikone swerved first left then right to try to block him, a manouver which alone is illegal as you are only supposed to move the once to try to block

I think you'll find that that rule applies in A1 racing not Formula 1. But I could be wrong.

[H2oDunc]

Pretty sure its a rule in F1 as Im sure Schumaker was warned about it several times. If you could swerve all over the course to block somebody passing then the guy that got in front would win hands down. I also noticed nothing was said about Raikonen trying to bumb Hamilton off the course after the pass manouver. Just more anti Maclaren bias. Hamilton would have won las years championship if the stewards did their job. The people that finished ahead of him in the last race were found to be using illegal fuel. If they had been penalised then Hamilton would have won the championshp but it was decided to do NOTHING. Now either something is illegal or it isnt. Als like Ferrari being found guilty of an UNSAFE pit lane exit and just recieving a fine. The whole episode stinks

[lazeeboy]

today hamilton and mcclaren are appealling ,maybe he will get his points back after all

[johnh101]

Its a load of betty swallox !

[H2oDunc]

This from the official rules of F1 on overtaking

In overtaking battles the driver in front's best defence is his ability to pick braking points and cornering lines. A skilful driver can hold off an opponent by adopting a 'defensive' driving style, typically this means reducing the angle available for the car behind to use going into corners where there is a substantial risk of being passed. Providing that the driver ahead only changes his line once going into a corner (not deliberately attempting to block the car behind) this is a perfectly justifiable form of racing, and with it a driver in an inferior car can successfully hold off a faster rival. Narrowing the car behind's angle through corners can also force it to take a later apex and even run wide, even if it has successfully made the pass - and this can result in the slower car getting back in front again! A side-effect of this defensive driving is that it tends to slow both drivers down, which is why you often see these close battles dropping away from cars ahead.

So nothing from the stewards about a Ferrari driver breaking the rules there then ??????????????????

[Uros]

It's a tough call and looks dodgy to a lot of the great uninformed. But the only way Hamilton overtook at La Source did was by cutting the chicane and not fully backing off. He needed to give away every advantage gained, which he did not do but got in the slipstream. He should have waited until after the hairpin and made his move at Eau Rouge or at the end of the Kemmel. According to Massa this is something that the drivers cover in their meetings. Basically after cutting the course one has to give back the place(s) gained and hold station for one more corner. British media and fans are making big deal out of nothing like they did after Monaco last year.

The appeal will not take place for many more weeks. McLaren cannot appeal the penalty, only the race results. Does not look good for them, 19,000 signatures or not.

[TBWG]

It's an absolute discrace From my understanding of the rules Hamilton didn't do anything wrong -- well accept for driving for McLaren

There is a petition circulating if you are interested, some 19000 signatures thus far.

Petition

Now approaching 50,000 sigs http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?belgp08

TBWG

[rixalex]

Basically after cutting the course one has to give back the place(s) gained and hold station for one more corner.

Where did you get this stuff from about having to hold station for one more corner? I've read nothing like that in the rules, so i'd be interested to know. All i've read is that you must be seen to fully concede track position.

During Schumacher's rein we saw so many moves which were far more questionable, like deliberately taking people off the track, but nothing was ever done about it. I wonder why?

[kartman]

Trouble is FIA rules are inconsistent and are administerd so

Valencia-Felipe Massa !st - car realeased into path of car in pits penalty E10,000 fine result "!st place", no small change

Spa-Bruno Senna Gp2 !st -car realeased into path of car in pits penalty Drive through penalty result "Wasted Race"

[Yorkie]

It now appears apparent that the "stewards" gave a drive through penalty 2 hours or so after the race finished because there is no appeal allowed against drive through penalties.

Maybe in future the penalty for all rule infringements should be retrospective drive through penalties. It would save any traffic jams in the pits and save an absolute fortune in the appeal's process.

Cheers

Y

[kartman]

Or they could offer a choice drive through or fine, the driver could then use a calculator to work out the prevailing exchange rates for the local currancy before deciding what option to take. Of course if there is ever a F1 race in Thailand (stop sniggering) the onboard computer could be linked direct to Thai Visa therefore doing away with the need for the calculator!.

[SomchaiCNX]

And what about Japan?

Same story again.

Looks like you are not allowed to tuch or overtake a red car, but on the other hand it is allowed if you are in the red car.

[Mosha]

I really felt for Bordais I think it was. He got penalised for having the afrontary to let Massa hit him. That has to be the worst ever decision.

[TBWG]

I really felt for Bordais I think it was. He got penalised for having the afrontary to let Massa hit him. That has to be the worst ever decision.

Agreed ... Bourdais had no option but to get up to speed ASAP after exiting the pits, had 2 wheels off the track and could go no farther . Massa approaching with no other cars in sight decides Bourdais is invisible and with all the rest of the track at his disposal decides he wants same bit as Bourdais happens to be occupying.

Then Bourdais is penalised ... Huh!

Spanker Mosley maintains stewards/FIA are impartial , well with decisions like this no wonder the publics perception is otherwise.

TVWG

[trueblue]

Kubica to Farrari?

Go lewis anyway

[Daffy D]

I think F1 has become boring. Too many regulations and restrictions have chipped away at the competitiveness of the sport.

While I am all for safety, it is a competitive sport and there needs to be some element of danger in it.

The drivers are getting paid way too much for the risks involved. True they have the knowledge and skill to handle a high powered machine but then so do plenty of competitors in other sports that are equally dangerous if not more so.

The F1 car these days is so well constructed that it can almost totally disintegrate without significant harm to the driver. This is obviously good but does this justify the obscene monies paid to the drivers. I think an afternoon drive on the M25 on a Bank Holiday week-end is more dangerous.

As for the racing itself it has got to the stage where the drivers are afraid to do anything risky for fear of being penalized and this is making a very boring spectator sport.

The commentators with their enthusiastic commentary do a great job of making up for the lack of real action. They can make a mundane overtaking maneuver, that would not be out of place on the Guildford bypass, seem like a second coming. Try watching with the sound turned off and you’ll see how important the commentary is in making dull boring spectacle exciting.

I think instead of more regulations there should be less; let’s have some real on track competiveness among the drivers and a bit of off track needle wouldn’t hurt either. Lets see some real personalities emerge who drive not just with strategy but with real aggression and not afraid to take each other out. As long as it’s not the team mate.

My couple of Bts worth