Marriage/ Birth Registration And Visa Status

[malcolm owen]

I'm a Brit born man of thirty years age. Pleased to discover my partner is pregnant (2 month's)! I have lived with my partner for three years, be it unmarried. I haven't been married before in the United Kingdom or elsewhere! I'd like to know if anyone has shared a similar experience? Please read on...

Note, I will wed my girlfriend (apply marriage affirmation first) so the child(ren) will be of legitimate status before birth! If I do this, can I assume the child(ren) will be righted British citizenship or at any rate have Dual nationality? Do the children have Dual nationality at birth or upon the Embassy processing a second passport? (This part isn't explained on the Embassy website, can you guys help?)

Secondly, does the following sound correct? I will apply for consular birth registration by taking the Thai Birth papers to the British embassy and pay the necessary fees for Dual Nationality! After this is completed, I will buy a passport for a lesser fee than the registration! What are my family visitation rights after the necessary is completed? Perhaps I will be righted privelages, i.e. different visa status?

It is unfortunate i've not the four hundred thousand baht and other and i'm unable to support my wife to be by these new regulations! What Visa status am I benefited other than a Non Immigrant Visa "O"? Can I still continue to my visa run to the Cambodian border till I clear my head and see what my options are? Please, what exactly are my best options? Thank you in advance for any replies...

[the scouser]

Hi Malcolm,

Providing that you are British otherwise than by descent; i.e. you obtained your British citizenship, for example, by being born in the UK, and the child's birth is legitimate then he/she will automatically be British the second he/she pops out. The process that you undergo at the embassy just officially records it. Your child will be British by descent which means that if he/she has a child in years to come which is born outside of the UK then your grandchild would not be British.

I can't profess to be expert on Thai immigration law but from the bit I know about it I believe that you are consigned to visa runs unless you either import 400,000 baht from abroad or have a monthly income of at least 40,000 baht, or a combination of both.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Cabana]

Hi Malcolm,

Providing that you are British otherwise than by descent; i.e. you obtained your British citizenship, for example, by being born in the UK, and the child's birth is legitimate then he/she will automatically be British the second he/she pops out. The process that you undergo at the embassy just officially records it. Your child will be British by descent which means that if he/she has a child in years to come which is born outside of the UK then your grandchild would not be British.

I can't profess to be expert on Thai immigration law but from the bit I know about it I believe that you are consigned to visa runs unless you either import 400,000 baht from abroad or have a monthly income of at least 40,000 baht, or a combination of both.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In fact children born from a union of a thai woman and a British man (irrespective of the citizenship status of the man) do not automatically acquire UK citizenship and UK immgn have the right not to grant it, they say. It also states the same on the application form. It certainly is not British when it 'pops out'. The key document is the marriage certificate and if all is typical it will not be a problem. Thai passports should be the easy part very straight forward if baby born in Thailand. Curiously a union between a Thai man and a British woman is different and any baby born of such a union is automatically granted UK rights. Colonial throwback reasoning.

[lopburi3]

If you have a degree or special skills that would make your chance for employment good here in Thailand you may be able to obtain an extension of stay without the required bank deposit the first year. If you believe you fit that ask immigration after your marriage. The worst that can happen is a no; and it might give you some 'thinking room'.

[lopburi3]

This link seems to be the citizenship paperwork and instructs to use Embassy.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/ho...itizenship.html

[p_brownstone]

Hi Malcolm,

Providing that you are British otherwise than by descent; i.e. you obtained your British citizenship, for example, by being born in the UK, and the child's birth is legitimate then he/she will automatically be British the second he/she pops out. The process that you undergo at the embassy just officially records it. Your child will be British by descent which means that if he/she has a child in years to come which is born outside of the UK then your grandchild would not be British.

Scouse.

In fact children born from a union of a thai woman and a British man (irrespective of the citizenship status of the man) do not automatically acquire UK citizenship and UK immgn have the right not to grant it, they say. It also states the same on the application form. It certainly is not British when it 'pops out'. The key document is the marriage certificate and if all is typical it will not be a problem.

I believe the Scouser was responding to the OP on the assumption - as the OP wrote - that he and his girlfriend would marry before the sprog actually emerges.

[lopburi3]

This link probably gives all the information but you have to understand British. As I have a hard enough time with American English will not even try to translate it.

BN-4?

[the scouser]

In fact children born from a union of a thai woman and a British man (irrespective of the citizenship status of the man) do not automatically acquire UK citizenship and UK immgn have the right not to grant it, they say.  It also states the same on the application form. It certainly is not British when it 'pops out'.  The key document is the marriage certificate and if all is typical it will not be a problem.  Thai passports should be the easy part very straight forward if baby born in Thailand.  Curiously a union between a Thai man and a British woman is different and any baby born of such a union is automatically granted UK rights.  Colonial throwback reasoning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to clarify the conflicting advice so far given to Malcolm, a child born in the circumstances that I described is British the second it "pops out". Here's the relevant quote from the link posted by Lopburi3:-

If you are .... a British citizen otherwise than by descent, your child born outside the United Kingdom ...  will automatically be a British citizen when he or she is born.

And as P Brownstone wrote, this is on the assumption that Malcolm will be married to the child's mother by the time he/she is born.

Additionally, it used to be that a woman could not pass on her British citizenship to her child. However, this changed with the introduction of the British Nationality Act 1981 which came in to law on 1/1/83. Now citizenship laws are applied equally. There is no advantage to be gained in this situation in being female.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[the scouser]

This link seems to be the citizenship paperwork and instructs to use Embassy.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/ho...itizenship.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lop,

The link refers to registration of a child as a Brit. cit. and is relevant if the child is not automatically British. It is this that Cabana may have been referring to as the decision to register a child as a Brit. cit. is, in many circumstances, at the discretion of the Secretary of State for the Home Office.

Scouse.

[malcolm owen]

Thanx for responding to the thread! I sense a legitimate marriage and legitimate birth should suffice? Cabana or at least the Home Office version may differ from other? I await confirmation?

Can I confidently show the four hundred thousand in the bank and nothing else! Is this possible? If I leave this sum of money in the account frozen, will I be gifted the visa 'O'? Nevermind, any WP ideas? Thanx Scouser for your input and thanx lopburi3 for the link...

[malcolm owen]

However! Visited the Home Office website. It seems, I can't automatically transfer my British Citizenship to my children because of the following: Your child will be entitled to be registered as a British citizen if the requirements in A - D below are met. Your child was born outside the United Kingdom (see Note A) on or after 1 January 1983 and before 21 May 2002;...

[leehabgood]

hi malcom..im in the same position as you..

send me a mail [email protected]

hopefully we can get through this...

[malcolm owen]

So my options, next to nothing! I believe I am entitled to take the GF to the UK on the pretext we are about to have children? I don't wish to gain visa status! Instead I wan't to take full advantage of the NHS system? I believe I can stay with the GF for up to six months in the United Kingdom awaiting the birth? What is the name of the visa or application I require and should I be married in the United Kingdom or in Thailand before coming home?...

[slimdog]

I think you are getting confused by the word "Descent"

If you go to the link for BN4 shown earlier and look at section 7 you will see that If you are a British citizen other than by descent you will automatically transfer the citizenship on to your child. What this means is that if you were born in the uk to British parents your children are automatically given British citizenship, but your children will be classed as British Citizens by Descent (If born in Thailand), and maynot be able to pass the citizenship on to THEIR children.

Two other things to remember:

1. If you marry in Thailand and then apply for a settlement visa, the British Embassy normally wants you to wait 3 months (Cooling Off period), before a visa will be granted. I am sure there are exceptions but that is thegeneral rule of thumb. So maybe applying for a fiance visa would be a better bet.

2. British Passport: Whilst your child will be allowed a British passport, if they use it to come into Thailand they will require a visa just like you. So if your child is born in Thailand and you take the child outside for a holiday etc, make sure the child has a Thai passport. For children under 18, there is no problem having both passports.

Forgot to say; Congratulations, hope everything works out for you

[samran]

2. British Passport: Whilst your child will be allowed a British passport, if they use it to come into Thailand they will require a visa just like you. So if your child is born in Thailand and you take the child outside for a holiday etc, make sure the child has a Thai passport. For children under 18, there is no problem having both passports.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For all people, under or over 18, there is no problem having dual Thai-UK nationality.

[lopburi3]

This link seems to be the citizenship paperwork and instructs to use Embassy.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/ho...itizenship.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lop,

The link refers to registration of a child as a Brit. cit. and is relevant if the child is not automatically British. It is this that Cabana may have been referring to as the decision to register a child as a Brit. cit. is, in many circumstances, at the discretion of the Secretary of State for the Home Office.

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree but at first thought it was the best on-line as referred to BN4 in first paragraph advised how to obtain but did not say it was on-line. Later noticed it in left pane so posted second link. Do not believe we colonialists would have used the "descent" word in the same manner so did not want to make any conclusion.

[malcolm owen]

I shan't ask further questions, thank you! I did infact get confused by the termonolgy and this is the term that threw me: ''qualifying territories''. I agree, the British can be sticklers for diction! In any event, I must go to the Embassy to learn more or at least confirm our findings! Thank you...