My Situation

[sassienie]

I wonder how your kind, get their incomes?

[F1fanatic]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

Good point Jonny B, it is true that the only foreigners that ever lose money are those with Issan bar girls. A vile despicable species that bring nothing but shame to the otherwise impecably honest Thai womanhood. Those married to white skinned multiple PHD Thai virgins, like 99% of TV posters, never have any problems whatsoever.

So why are you getting nervous then...hmmm? Surely it is only middle aged losers with Issan tramps that should worry, not young guys like you?

By the way it was not suggested you were dumb because the business was a bad idea, I think they were simply suggesting that you put all your money into a business that you can never own, inherit and will lose at your wifes whim. Personally seems like good business acumen to me, no doubt the wifes family agree.

So we can safely assume that Issan bar girls are not the lovely, friendly, gentle women they purport to be?? Please tell my ex!! But then again, don't bother, he won't belive it. (Wish I could add the laughing emoticon, but for some reason I can't get them to work!)

[Edonista]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

My question about cash flow and mortgage was to understand if you are currently requested to fork out other money (that you do not have) to pay mortgage installments or if the bank is menacing foreclosure.

Anyway you still did not answer if you and your wife bought the land and built the buildings after or before your marriage was registered.

[stephaniee]

tell your wife to give you back the amount you gave and you would buy property in yr home country in yr name only.

you would then be made whole and can proceed on yr marriage to a good thai girl.

if she refuses to accomodate you then you may want to run now. no sense in staying married to a girl who cares less about how you feel.

[Jonny B]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

I have a Thai girlfreind for the latter 14 years, our situation is similar with the exceprions,we are not married simply to protect my UK assests, secondly I am much older and expect to end my days here.

My girlfreind who incidently is an Isaan lady agreed that I should be protected in case of her demise. We consulted A good Thai layer and we now have documents both in English and Thai to protect me.

The gist of the messgae is: if your wife loves and trusts you she will readily agree to do a similar document.

You state that they are a good family so it would be intersting to read what happens if you make that approach to your wife.

Please post on how you resolve your anxiety.

Cheers

ah k, thanks, yeah sounds like the best thing to do would be to see a good lawyer, just got to find one of them now. i actually talked about it with my wife before posting on here and she fine with it and wants to do whatever she can to help me and is also reading everybodys replies on here.

sorry about the isaan lady thing, didnt mean it that way.

thanks again

[Jonny B]

Not much I can add other to sum up some of the good points made by others:

1. You need to get your wife to make a Will - she should not object to this. Without a Will you will still get a percentage of the assets, but this may not be adequate to cover your investment. Get the facts and discuss it with your wife and get something drafted. google on "preparing Thai Will" and search this forum and you will find the formula (for asset distribution) as set out in the Thai Commercial and Civil Code (clause 1629). Plus a Will may lessen the chance you have to go head to head with her family later

2. did you invest the money before or after you married?? this would have a bearing on what you might get in a divorce. again, get your head in the Thai Civil and Commercial Code (clauses 1473 – 1481 & 1490

3. can you prove you brought the money into the country and that you put it into the investment? copies of transfers? receipts? for everything??

4. yes, you need to handle this VERY sensitively to avoid starting a fire where there was none. talk about certainty, clarity etc etc anything but not trusting her or her family. i would see a lawyer on the quiet. to a Thai, going to see a lawyer is a big deal, and it will make waves.

And yes you need to get this sorted asap

yes most of the money was invested after we were married and yes i have all money transfer reciepts and written documentation of all money i spent here

[noise]

what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

HERE IS A THEORETICAL ANSWER:

A non-Thai spouse can inherit and the courts can authorize ownership via probate under the proper circumstances. See this URL for the English translation of the Thai civil code which spells all this out. One key factor seems to be having a valid Thai will that is registered at the Amphur. http://www.samuiforsale.com/index.html Ignore the Samui For Sale label: it is the generic law. If you look down the left hand column you will find Thai Spouse & Land.

Open that and scroll down further and it says: A foreign spouse married to a Thai is by law a statutory heir of that Thai spouse ( section Civil and Commercial Code[/font]). Section 93 of the Land Code Act: 'A foreigner who acquires land by inheritance as statutory heir can have an ownership in such land upon a permission of the Minister of Interior. However, the total plots of land shall not be exceeding of those specified in Section 87'.

So it is legal to inherit. How does apply to your situation and commercial property? I do not know, but this may give you a starting point for research.

[Jonny B]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

My question about cash flow and mortgage was to understand if you are currently requested to fork out other money (that you do not have) to pay mortgage installments or if the bank is menacing foreclosure.

Anyway you still did not answer if you and your wife bought the land and built the buildings after or before your marriage was registered.

the monthly income easily covers the mortgage payments and no the bank isnt menacing forclosure. we built the buildings after our marriage was registered.

I cant say enough that nothing is wrong on the home front, we have a good source of monthly passive income, our marriage is fine, her family is fine and financially stable. I would prefer people who just want to critizise or give an opinion stay away please, only people who can offer first hand knowledge would be much appreciated.

thanks

[Jonny B]

what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

HERE IS A THEORETICAL ANSWER:

A non-Thai spouse can inherit and the courts can authorize ownership via probate under the proper circumstances. See this URL for the English translation of the Thai civil code which spells all this out. One key factor seems to be having a valid Thai will that is registered at the Amphur. http://www.samuiforsale.com/index.html Ignore the Samui For Sale label: it is the generic law. If you look down the left hand column you will find Thai Spouse & Land.

Open that and scroll down further and it says: A foreign spouse married to a Thai is by law a statutory heir of that Thai spouse ( <!--fonto:--><span style="font-family:"><!--/fonto-->section Civil and Commercial Code[/font]). Section 93 of the Land Code Act: 'A foreigner who acquires land by inheritance as statutory heir can have an ownership in such land upon a permission of the Minister of Interior. However, the total plots of land shall not be exceeding of those specified in Section 87'.

So it is legal to inherit. How does apply to your situation and commercial property? I do not know, but this may give you a starting point for research.

thanks, yeah good luck getting the minister of interior permission however.

does anybody here think its possibe to get something like a written contract saying in the event of our breakup if one party wishes to sell then the other party would have to ablige and state exactly how much would be devided. im just looking for something uncomplicated that wouldnt require going to courts, lawyers etc. any good thai or farang lawyer reccommendations also would be nice.

thanks

[grantbkk]

By asking the question the OP has recognized that mistakes were made. He is young and will learn from this folly. The ONLY way to get anything out of this without getting killed or maimed in the process is to slowly begin sucking assets and hiding them from his wife and in-laws. This should be a priority and done slowly over time. Even if things are going well now the game changes with one fight over money or the relationship goes on the rocks.

The legal route takes time and money and sucks the life out of the principals. The idea that was brought forward to borrow on the assets, get money and leave the country is viable but in the end illegal. Saving for a rainy day is prudent, legal and smart. There is a very good chance that this can end badly, especially if someone on the other side sees this post.

To the OP: This would be no time to take out a life insurance policy in any amount naming your Thai wife as beneficiary. This would be the equivalent of an assisted suicide pact with your adopted family with the nice smiles. Good luck to you.

Edited September 12, 2008 by grantbkk

[tig28]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

hi jonny

similar situation dealt with by a friend who lives nearby. the solution he adopted was very comprehensive ---used a law firm who covered the various considerations involved----- death of a partner---separation---etc.

he provided me with a general overview of what he did as he felt that i could also benefit by following a similar path.

it is not fitting to put the firms contact details on this forum---but if you would like more info---pm me.

[Wrong Turn]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

It's your wife's building, and your father-in-law's property. It's theirs.

If your wife, say, died, the building would likely go to her family, as it's hers.

Does she have a will?

I know someone whose wife owns the land, but he built a house on the the land and the building is his because he self-incorporated.

However....he claims he still could lose it if they wanted to take it from him, under certain legal and bureaucratic circumstances.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Wrong Turn

[MayBeLater]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

Trust is an easy thing to lose. In this case, if you lose that then you lose all your money. Remember where you are. The Thai's are very good at survival. I have been married to a Thai girl now for 2.5 years and I'm not sure if I can trust her. My company is entirely in my name (Amity Treaty), and I never would have invested in Thailand had in not been the case. How long have you known this girl and her family?

Sorry are you joking mrt273nva? You have been married for 2,5 years and still haven't figuered out if you can trust your own wife, sorry, that truly is sad! How many more years you will need?

Jonny, the money you have invested is gone (well its invested), you most likely never will see anything of it in case you get divorced. Tricks like some mentioned to make your investment cash will backfire. Just make the best of your marriage, thats the best guarantee you got. To now make a bussines proposal to your wife wouldn't be smart (actually quite insulting), I for one would start to mistrust you from that moment onwards (is he planning to get out?) Just arrange something legal in case your wife dies, so you won't be kicked off your land. And a sound advice was to start building up a secret amount of cash, makes you independent in case something nasty happens, and something nasty can happen to all of us.

Good luck Jonny,

MBL

[coalminer]

I'm married to a Thai spouse and we have a child out of this marriage.

A few years ago, I wanted to ensure our financial situation in case that one of the partners should become sick or die and I got the following answers from the insurance company (a very good and renowned insurance company) after they have studied in the law books every possibility:

1. My wife:

No matter what is written on paper or said in persona in front of the King himself, if my wife dies, the fist beneficiary of the life insurance and her assets is our daughter.

Of our daughter did not reach the age of 7 years, all will go to the family.

If our daughter would die as well, the beneficiary of the life insurance will be HER FAMILY.

2. Our daughter:

If our daughter would die, the first beneficiary of her life insurance is the mother.

If the mother would die as well, the beneficiary of the life insurance will be HER FAMILY.

This says enough of the structure of the Thai laws.

A fahrang has NO rights whatsover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never invest anything in Thailand that you can't afford to loose.

[Geroc]

Hi,

...If something to happen...

Two possibilities :

- first one, at this time, you're in very good terms with your family's wife, and they share with you, at their will,

- second one, at this time, you're not very fine with your wife, and her family kick you out without one baht !

Yopu don't need to imagine one of you die. It's often in Thailand, as in every country in the world, that people divorce. And it's often that they fight... Sunny Thailand and sweet Issan don't change mankind !

You need absolutely to have a convention written by a lawyer.

[stephaniee]

op has to sweat it! he knows he paddling up the river wo a paddle.

no need to be nasty to posters who just pointing out you in a precarious situation. you must obviously be concerend that you might get the shaft as so many others have.

no matter what people say farangs just seem to lose control when it comes to thai girls and money!

[notime]

A good thing may be to register a lifetime usufruct over the property:

"The standard use for a right of usufruct (in line with how usufruct is used in other Civil law systems) is to protect in Thailand a foreign spouse's interest in the property in the event of divorce or death of the Thai spouse"

Source: http://www.samuiforsale.com/usufruct_what_is.html

To protect your wife's interest you could separately have an agreement in writing about how much your share in the property is worth.

Your wife should understand your needs and concerns if given to her in a softly-softly manner and if she loves you. Love is the magic lube to smooth things out in any relationship. Good luck!

[philstone]

I am very pleased to see that at least one person on this board believes enough in himself to trust his own instincts = JonnyB !! And he is not afraid !!!

I wonder why most of you feel that each and everyone Thai is fundamentally not trustworthy.

I agree with you I trust my wife and her children that's why I brought 15 houses in their name. And about 12 cars they all love me and I love them JonnyB just buy more you will be okay all long as you kept buying. When you stop who knowns. Just kept buying and they will love you no problem.

[egg6447]

oh der oh dear.. jon your in poo if your for real,, so you dont know what a troll is. yet.. yet you know that the minister of the interiour wont give a farange ownership/inheritance. i wasn,t going to get drawn in after you said your wife is reading the posts. are you on a death wish.??. your 23 with millions to invest.. thats posible, just like its possible to find an honest tha . some questions that might damage you when your wife reads this. has she got siblings?. i understand that her father owns the land. where does the siblings fit into the parents deaths?.. for you to know so much, get so far in life at 23, and not know what to do. well you,ve got to be on a wind up for sure.. i have all your answers but then i guess you do to. good luck for the future. i think you know where your at.

[ericjt]

It's not even in your wife's name, right? It's in her family's name. So you can't solve the problem with your wife signing a will, because she doesn't own an interest in the property. It's owned by her family.

Forget about trusting or not trusting Thais. Would you have set things up that way in the US or in your home country? I don't think so. It leaves you completely exposed and dependant on what her family -- not even your wife -- decides to do if she dies or you guys split up. That's not a good position.

First piece of advice: You and your wife need to go together and see a good lawyer here. And do it soon. Maybe 2 or 3.

Think about forming a corporation or other legal entity into which you can pass title to the property. And of which you own at least 50%. Pay the taxes or other fees and get it done right, now, while (if?) you still can. I'm sure there are other ways of doing it, but corporations are one way that I know are possible under Thai law. And I'm sure there are several other ways.

I'm not sure trust law is very developed in Thailand, but I would talk with your lawyer about trusts, too. You could also discuss contracts, options, and/or mortgages where you would hold the mortgage. Even a notarized letter or affidavit from the people holding the title acknowledging that they are holding 50% of it for you as nominees or trustees would put you far ahead of where you are now. And be sure to record it with the title to the property in the appropriate Land Office. The option could give you the right to buy 50% for $100 or some other nominal sum, and it, too, could be recorded. The option would be a good stopgap in the US. I'm not sure about it here.

If her family balks at the idea of reducing your rights to paper, at least you will know now that you have a problem and how bad it's going to be. Then you need to see what you and your wife can work out with her family, and which side your wife will take when she is put in the middle between you and her family. Will she work on her family and try to convince them to protect you? And, if they say now, will she help you take your value out of the property slowly over time?

Difficult position. But address it squarely, now, and talk with at least a few lawyers to be sure you've considered all possibilities. Also the best way(s) to approach her family. That might be more important than how well the papers are drawn.

Good luck.

[OldenAtwoody]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

You get to start over again!

(If you're thinking like this, that something "might" happen, well, I think something might happen...)

I suppose you and the wife should get a lease from the father, for the use of the land. You and wife own the structures 50-50 (joint). Maybe you should open a stock company to administer the structures (but you can't own 50% of the shares).

Bottom line is, if you just blithely threw up some buildings on dad's land - with *zero* paperwork - well, what do you expect?

Jonny - what is SHE (your wife) dies? No, you cannot own land in Thailand (YET), but you can LEASE for 30 years (renewable after 5 for another 30, total 55 years), and you can own condos, and you can own..... what?

BUILDINGS.

So why, on God's green earth is everything in her name?

Fix that NOW.

One other reason to GET paperwork (lease). What happens when HE (father) dies. Usually everything goes to the eldest son. Does he have any male children?

What if the land is encumberd by a loan (common in the province), it may go to an unrelated third-party, and you will have no lease?

So, when the new owner raises the rent to "sky high", you gonna move those buildings?

My son - do not trust your relatives. That's true for every culture.

1. Get a binding lease from Dad.

2. Get the buildings in your and your wife's name equally.

No one should complain about these moves. They're merely prudent.

Good luck.

[OldenAtwoody]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

Just thinking..... Would you, Jonny - or any of us here, have entered into this same business deal with a man at work, or from the pub? Or would we have sought a little better assurances of safety?

There's a lesson here.