Any Grease Monkeys Here?

[tattoodrob]

i got an old gixxer(gsxr1100) that had a starter problem that is sort of fixed.....it was in a local thai big bike repair shop after not being fixed in an even more local repair shop....anyway i got it back and starts a bit more often than it did but now is backfiring on deceleration......quite a big bang sometimes so its a bit embarassing riding it. apart from that it goes ok,has good power. i took it back to the shop as i couldnt really see why it has the problem and he says i need new leads and plugs all round as there not original at cost 3k bt which is ok if im guaranteed its gonna cure the problem.....but im not so sure as was not backfiring before he got his greasy mitts on it so why now does it all of a sudden need plugs/leads. i think he(or one of his 14/15 yr old helpers ) took the carb off to get to the bolts on the starter so i wonder if was put back correct or a screw missing!! he also mentioned that if i brought back in the morning he would tune up the carb as thinks its out of balance but i just wondered if anyone here had any idea or had this problem before......obviously some fuel is not being burnt fully and making its way to the exhaust but why now

ps its got an aftermarket yoshimura exhaust tail and non standard air filter but ran nice and only had a nice rumble on deceleration before ,non of this splutttering and big bangs!!!!

any ideas/help appreciated or its onto the next shop til i find a shop that can repair a bike without causing more problems

ps why do they all give you the bike back with scratches everywhere and greasy hand prints .....dont answer i know the reason .....coz they couldnt give a <deleted>

[phaethon]

Did they disturb the exhaust to get to the starter (not familair with gsxr anatomy)? Check for leaks around the exhaust gasket. Otherwise this happens when the engine runs lean, check for blockages in the fuel filter and blockages/leaks (i.e. air getting sucked into) in the fuel lines. Maybe adjust the carbs to give a richer burn and pull the plugs and leads; inspect the leads and insulation, clean and gap the leads before springing for new ones.

Cheers,

K.

[kennkate]

Hi you say thay took the carb Off. That may be were your problem is.

Maybee thay forgot to replace the Gasket between the carb and the Cyl head with a new one, if that is the case it will run Lean. Draging exess air in from a poor seal.

Just a Thought, You could check it out yourself

Best of luck Ken

[tattoodrob]

Hi you say thay took the carb Off. That may be were your problem is.

Maybee thay forgot to replace the Gasket between the carb and the Cyl head with a new one, if that is the case it will run Lean. Draging exess air in from a poor seal.

Just a Thought, You could check it out yourself

Best of luck Ken

thanks will get onto it but i know for sure they didnt put a new gasket in as they would have to order for this bike ...........im not 100 percent sure about carb coming off but think it did to get to the bolts.

[tvmax]

what year is the bike? Since they wouldnt have to take the exhaust off to do the starter I would look at the carb seal or possibly sync.

[goldfish]

Only a muppet would have disturbed the exhaust to remove the starter motor...oh. Anyway, I doubt that has been done. The carbs sit directly above the starter motor and would probably have needed moving to gain access, where they would have been kicked around on the floor and fiddled with by a bored lackey. They are a push fit (and tightened by jubilee clip) into the inlet manifold. The inlet manifold will have a simple paper gasket between it and the engine.

Cannot diagnose your problem on the net but would be looking at carbs and valve clearances. Think it's bucket and shim on the GSXR so not a job for a thai. Search the Pattaya forum (if that's where you live) and find a competant farang mechanic, not an idiot who leaves handprints all over the bike. Don't take it to another Thai.

Ideally this is a job you should be doing yourself if you own one of these bikes of this age. Knew someone in the UK with a Katana who paid a good mechanic a grand to do all those little jobs we would do ourselves. Some friends thought he was a fool, I thought it was a good move. The bike worked as it was meant to rather than having all these niggling little problems. Find that guy and pay him what you have to then your bike will do what it's meant to, and safely

[Pikey]

Agree with others, the bike is running lean and the likely culprit are the seals around the carb manifolds. A quick and easy test is to whip the tank off (or raise it sufficiently so as you can see all 4 carb manifolds), start the engine and get it idling smoothly and then spray some WD-40/Sonax e.t.c directly onto the carb manifolds - if there is a leak, the spray will get sucked into the engine causing the revs to rise. If so, check for cracks on the manifolds and as said before, the seal to the head which I think should be an "O" ring and can be replaced if flattened or you can use RTV silicone seal instead. For the other side, as mentioned before, check that the jubilee clips are tight and a little bit of RTV around the inner surface of the manifolds wouldn't hurt either.

Hope this helps and post to let us all know if we are any good as web mechanics.

Cheers,

Pikey (former Grease Monkey)

[imaneggspurt]

Agree with others, the bike is running lean and the likely culprit are the seals around the carb manifolds. A quick and easy test is to whip the tank off (or raise it sufficiently so as you can see all 4 carb manifolds), start the engine and get it idling smoothly and then spray some WD-40/Sonax e.t.c directly onto the carb manifolds - if there is a leak, the spray will get sucked into the engine causing the revs to rise. If so, check for cracks on the manifolds and as said before, the seal to the head which I think should be an "O" ring and can be replaced if flattened or you can use RTV silicone seal instead. For the other side, as mentioned before, check that the jubilee clips are tight and a little bit of RTV around the inner surface of the manifolds wouldn't hurt either.

Hope this helps and post to let us all know if we are any good as web mechanics.

Cheers,

Pikey (former Grease Monkey)

Hey jeff/rob, i just have to share this with you,.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukAhlxl4hmM Edited September 12, 2008 by imaneggspurt

[Pikey]

Yes, saw that clip before and p*ssed myself - thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

Pikey.

[tubber]

 Might be worth checking the caps on the vacuum take off points and the vacuum hose for the fuel tap.

[tattoodrob]

hi,thanks for advice so far....im no mechanic but dont mind getting me mitts dirty

im guessing that they did something to it when they took carb off,think they would of just undid jubilee clips rather than inlet manifold to cyl head so expect its not leaking there.......they tend not to care if they forget to put all screws in etc when assembling. the boss there seems ok but his monkeys aint got a clue and dont take care and he lets them do most of the work,i would love to find a good farang mechanic here but i think winning the pools might be easier...and even if you find a farang he tends to let the monkeys do the work as labour is so cheap.

dont know what "sync " is that someone mentioned but when it stops raining long enough then will take off tank and have a good look at and around the carb,see if all looks correct etc. it just annoys me when you take it in for one problem then get it back with another problem that they obviously caused ,as starter not working when hot before was why i took it in!!!

by the way its a slabside(with upgraded fairings) and think it is 91/92,im too lazy to go look at the book now.

thanks for all advice and when finally sorted then will let you all know so u not left in suspenders too long haha.

the boss there wanted me to buy new plugs/leads at 3k baht after having new battery(not required) and new(old) starter so im reluctant to keep supplying them with beer money for no results or really coz they fcuked it up.

[tvmax]

Rob,

Is it a water cooled model or the older air/oil cooled? I have seen these also develope cracks in the manifolds that can cause air leaks. Pull the carbs check for cracks. Can help some by putting in a light coat of silicon before sliding in the carbs. "Sync" is putting a set of vacuum guages on the carbs and setting the linkage so they all start to open at the same time. I am guessing the carbs are the standard CV type and not flatslides.

Why was the bike not starting? would it turn over fine but not run or not spinning? I raced these for many years and have built many motors if it is the air oil cooled motors. Does it have stock type coils? I know Suzukis were notorious for weak coils.

[goldfish]

Well, I'm pleased there's better mechanics than myself answering now so shall keep quiet a bit more often. Have always felt a little uncomfortable answering as I'm not that good, just always looked after my own bikes. Had a quick look on the pattaya forum, this link is probably the closest for what you need

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/road-Machine...amp;hl=mechanic

Hope you get it sorted. A mechanic should not cause more problems when 'trying' to solve another. And anyone who leaves his pawprints all over the bike hasn't stood back at the end of the day with a look of job satisfaction on his face

[tattoodrob]

Rob,

Is it a water cooled model or the older air/oil cooled? I have seen these also develope cracks in the manifolds that can cause air leaks. Pull the carbs check for cracks. Can help some by putting in a light coat of silicon before sliding in the carbs. "Sync" is putting a set of vacuum guages on the carbs and setting the linkage so they all start to open at the same time. I am guessing the carbs are the standard CV type and not flatslides.

Why was the bike not starting? would it turn over fine but not run or not spinning? I raced these for many years and have built many motors if it is the air oil cooled motors. Does it have stock type coils? I know Suzukis were notorious for weak coils.

I believe it is an air/oil cooled model.

i had a look today and thought i could see a split in carb manifold,i didnt actually take carb off as not super confident and lacking in tools but i did check allround the carb manifold with torch and see a slight split but didnt know whether was leaking so covered it in sealant anyway and hoped it was gonna cure it.....i also noticed that thin metal pipe from bottom of carb to top(on side) was off at the top so i sealed that back on as the other 3 (on other pots)seamed to be sealed on too,thought that might help.

waited for sealant to go off and bike still the same as before. i did notice that the tube from petrol tap to intake was blocked off at intake manifold..it had a metal part put into pipe to block it or 95 percent block it ,but it didnt really help when unblocked.

i seem to get some flames out the exhaust sometimes and the loud bangs.......dont know if this helps you mechanics out there in your diagnosis,i expect not.

bike was not startin as when hot it would not even turnover as if battery was flat but when u left bike to cool down then would turnover again with a bit of ooomph .....had starter coil rewound or something and is a lot better but not perfect as now when cold it doesnt always turnover first push of starter button,and has had new battery even though didnt need it.

as to the coils ,another garage i went to(with broken cdi unit) said he changed one coil as said it wasnt right one and would be a lot better running bike but was same as if he hadnt changed.as it ran ok before cdi problem and ran ok after sorted so didnt note any difference.

i cant understand as bike was running good before getting starter looked at now have this problem so thats why i know they have done something,it cant just have been a coincidence.

might take another shop and so the experience starts again and the bills for bits i dont need........or do u think take to same guy who did the starter and let him try tune it as he said to me,im afraid his young monkeys will cause another problem and will come back greasy and more scratched/chipped.........greaaat.

thanks for ongoing advice guys

[tvmax]

Rob,

Generally the cracks that are causing the leaks are not that easy to see from the outside. They tend to be inside where the carbs slide in to the manifolds. When those manifolds get old they get hard. I have seen some so difficult to get the carbs off you had to use a pry bar. When they get this old they can get the cracks in them when removing the carbs. I believe it was mentioned earlier to spray some wd 40 or similar on the boots and arround the carb/boot connections. The engine RPM will change if it is sprayed on a leak. Smearing sealant on the external cracks will probably not remedy things. They usually are not the culprit. There are several things that can cause your problem but going from what could have been moved during the last work performed is the best place to start. A few other things to check. Fresh plugs? I have seen even a new plug be bad. So if you just had new put in try putting the old ones back in. Check plug wires for external cracks where spark can arc to ground. Check them with an ohm meter for continuity. Check for 12 volts getting to the coils. In an older bike the wiring harness connections can ge a little corroded. Especially living near the ocean. It is possible to have a valve adjusted to tight to cause this but since they didnt adjust them it is not likely. The good thing if it is the air/oil cooled (no water radiator) the valve adjustment is a simple screw adjustment. No shims required. Carb sync usually doesnt go off but easy to check. Another possiblity is a cracked or split in the carb slide diaphram. Once again in something old these things happen but easy to check. I wish we were closer I would give you a hand. I may be coming down that way. I am looking for a US car or something to buy to play with. Let me know if you want to get rid of the old beast. I still have a soft spot for the old GSXR. Shoot me your number and we can talk.

[tvmax]

Rob,

Looking back at the original starting problem. GSXR's usually dont have starter problems. Not saying they cant. The stock starters can easily start big bore high compression engines. Do a quick check with a volt meter across the battery terminals with the bike running. Increase the RPMS to about 40 to 5000 and you should have 14+ volts. The generators are usually pretty good on them but getting old it could need brushes. If it isnt charging the battery fully it may have trouble starting. I bought a cheep vmax from a shop and the starter clutch in it had been adapted from smaller bike. It was not up to handling the big engine and had actually cracked the starter clutch. They cobble some things together though. When you hit the button does it not spin and then you hit it again and it will spinover?

Jim

[goldfish]

i seem to get some flames out the exhaust sometimes and the loud bangs.......dont know if this helps you mechanics out there in your diagnosis,i expect not..........greaaat.

Either valve clearance or a burnt out valve, I suspect. It's not uncommon for mechanics in the UK to fiddle with a vehicle to cause another problem, but I'd be surprised to come across it in Thailand. Have always thought 'em too lazy to do any extra work but it really does sound like a valve problem.

[tvmax]

Valve possible but since it just happened when he was getting work done plus it would be easy to hear at idle and off idle when increasing rpms. Compression test is easy to do also.

[tattoodrob]

Rob,

Looking back at the original starting problem. GSXR's usually dont have starter problems. Not saying they cant. The stock starters can easily start big bore high compression engines. Do a quick check with a volt meter across the battery terminals with the bike running. Increase the RPMS to about 40 to 5000 and you should have 14+ volts. The generators are usually pretty good on them but getting old it could need brushes. If it isnt charging the battery fully it may have trouble starting. I bought a cheep vmax from a shop and the starter clutch in it had been adapted from smaller bike. It was not up to handling the big engine and had actually cracked the starter clutch. They cobble some things together though. When you hit the button does it not spin and then you hit it again and it will spinover?

Jim

before it just acted like battery dead so spinned a tiny bit then died ...only when hot,leave it 10 to 20 mins and would spin enough and start.changed battery and still crap when hot......was charging.i think he took old starter to be reconditioned whatever that means and since come back is not perfect but a lot better as was scared to go out on it before and get stuck somewhere . this morning i went to start it and just got a click and after a few times of this it finally started turning over and started.

i guess the carb could have been man handled by the young monkeys there as they dont take care with peoples stuff so he could have made intake manifold worse.......it seems very very hard rubber. i think i will get some spray oil and try your leak test next and see what happens.

dont wanna sell it as like it but just stressed out about it as always seem to have trouble with any bike i bought out here(only ride 20/30miles and needs work of somesort).....i think u r right about they just put things together....probably loads of unoriginal parts everywhere on my bike but annoys me about was ok before and now gotta find problem somehow or pay them to <deleted> about with it more.lucky its not my only transport.

as to the other tests you recomend then im not sure the mechanics here have the equipment and if they do then dont know how to use it properly......as to me,i understand what your talkin but cant do it myself and cant explain to a thai ......maybe i should just ride it as it is and enjoy the flames that come out sometime,probably looks good at night time if i dont get shot by local gangs(backfires like a gunshot every 1 or 2 km).

if i call u then i dont think i could do the things you suggest due to my inaptitude and impatience but hey if u ever come to pattaya soon then i would gladly buy u a beer for services rendered ...if not i think will try another thai shop i know who may help or may not.thanks again.

i also know a farang bike mechanic on hols who may have time(but no tools) if he stops drinking for 1 night!!!!

i will let you all know the outcome of what it is ....eventually, but will try that spray test next.....then if im lucky i will have the problem of finding a new intake manifold hahah.

[Lickey]

Rob,

If the bike pulls ok then that eliminates the leads,coils and plugs, these items usually break down under load.

Check the exhaust system totally, every joint, look for the slightest black trace of exhaust and rectify, pull each downpipe with force, if it moves, tighten or re-seal with hi-temp silicone, same with any other leaking joints,

Another reason is that the tickover mixture is wrong, even on one carb, if its to lean, the unburnt fuel will collect in the exhaust and ignite, wind the screw out half a turn and try again,

[AJS 7R]

Rob you have a PM.

Regards John.

[tattoodrob]

Rob you have a PM.

Regards John.

thanks john,will take you up on your offer.you are a gentleman sir.

[tattoodrob]

Rob,

If the bike pulls ok then that eliminates the leads,coils and plugs, these items usually break down under load.

Check the exhaust system totally, every joint, look for the slightest black trace of exhaust and rectify, pull each downpipe with force, if it moves, tighten or re-seal with hi-temp silicone, same with any other leaking joints,

Another reason is that the tickover mixture is wrong, even on one carb, if its to lean, the unburnt fuel will collect in the exhaust and ignite, wind the screw out half a turn and try again,

pulls great,no missfire. exhaust seems to be tight everywhere and they didnt touch the exhaust when doing starter unless they let it fallover.

havent really seen any tickover screws on each carb but will look again and try if i have any. again they shouldnt have touched anything like this during the work i had done.

i tried the oil spray test on intake manifold and nothing....no rev change etc so im guessing its not that and my intake manifold not leaking. i will persevere and might have a guy helping soon.thanks again everyone,we will eventually see who was right haha

[tvmax]

Rob, Any progress? A quick way to check for exhaust leaks is simply put your hand with a rag over the end of the exhaust while the bike is running. It will force exhaust out the leak and should be very apparent if it is large enough to cause problems.