Linux

[pop3]

Ive been thinking of trying out Linux. I have been told it is over complicated. their right there I can't even find somewhere to download it

[JimShortz]

I really think you would be better sticking with your existing operating system. Not that there aren't some very good distributions out there (Note that Linux is not just one operating system - there are any varieties), but to be honest if you can't find out how to Google and download a Linux variety then you are sure in for fun trying to set it up...

If you really want to go ahead then try Ubuntu, as it's one of the more user friendly varieties. You will, however, probably need some tech help setting it up initially.

Ubuntu can be downloaded from: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download

Enjoy!

[pop3]

Thank's JimShortz

With the 13 hours and 42 minuets download time quoted look's like your first advice is the only real option at the moment.

The main reason I would like to try something different is the fact I keep loosing the system restore option on my windows xp, I know Im not alone on this and there's no real answers to it anywhere,

To me windows xp without system restore is useless, a time bomb till it get's so bad you can't use it, With the system restore option as soon as a problem came along that you couldn't sort out a quick system restore and you were off again. Windows must have know this themselves otherwise there wouldn't ever have been that option.

[jackk]

In Thailand for fast download there's http://mirror.in.th/ and few others.

If you can't download it, then just ask them to ship you a free CD : https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

[Gary A]

The main problem is that there are several thousand versions available. If they would all get together and build one version, it could be a great operating system. I have a number of Linux versions and am still expected to type many lines of code to TRY to get my cell phone to connect to the Internet. Forget the plug and play. They all want to be techies and every system is different. Pop in a CD and get something to work ? Forget it. I have been playing with Linux for several years and it still takes years of experience to make it work.

[katana]

The main reason I would like to try something different is the fact I keep loosing the system restore option on my windows xp, I know Im not alone on this and there's no real answers to it anywhere,

To me windows xp without system restore is useless, a time bomb till it get's so bad you can't use it, With the system restore option as soon as a problem came along that you couldn't sort out a quick system restore and you were off again. Windows must have know this themselves otherwise there wouldn't ever have been that option.

Try ERUNT in place of System Restore:

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

[dave_boo]

The main problem is that there are several thousand versions available. If they would all get together and build one version, it could be a great operating system. I have a number of Linux versions and am still expected to type many lines of code to TRY to get my cell phone to connect to the Internet. Forget the plug and play. They all want to be techies and every system is different. Pop in a CD and get something to work ? Forget it. I have been playing with Linux for several years and it still takes years of experience to make it work.

GaryA is from my home state, so I give him a little leeway....

However, going with one version is a mistake. That is a total contravention of what got F/OSS(Free/Open Source Software) where it is today. Without the innovation that comes from blazing new trails your product quickly stagnates. And it's important to point out that just because one Linux distro (various flavours of Linux are called distros) does something there is NO restriction on other distros from incorperating that idea into their own product. There have been many examples of that, including my favourite distro "SuSE" which started off using one type of underlying distro (Slackware) and then switched to another (Red Hat).

There are only a handful of current distros that won't install on any x86 computer that follows standards. Notice that I mentioned 'follows standards'. There are some manufacturers that don't follow standards. For example there are some motherboard manufacturers that pass along bad DSDT tables to the operating system. From exporting the data and exploring it; they have different tables for different operating systems. And those for Linux are broken, such as the bios in my laptop. Thus, even though it looks like Linux has the problem, it's actually sabotage.

And that's even not talking about drivers; or rather lack of. Some companies are extremely good, Intel and Ralink comes to mind. And the crap about well, there's less than 2% market share and no incentive for the companies to write drivers for it, is a load of horse crap. What about supporting Windows XP (Creative!! )? There's a lot of hardware out there that doesn't have XP drivers even though it has an installed base that Vista can only have wet dreams about. But when the manufacturers of the components are in bed with Microsoft what can you expect?

And as far as 'popping' in a cd and getting it to work; there are so many drivers in the Linux kernel it's insane. For instance, one thing that GaryA didn't mention is that the phone was detected on his system. He was simply unable to configure it to work as a modem. And that was without installing any drivers. Can the same thing be said of Windows?

[Gary A]

The main problem is that there are several thousand versions available. If they would all get together and build one version, it could be a great operating system. I have a number of Linux versions and am still expected to type many lines of code to TRY to get my cell phone to connect to the Internet. Forget the plug and play. They all want to be techies and every system is different. Pop in a CD and get something to work ? Forget it. I have been playing with Linux for several years and it still takes years of experience to make it work.

GaryA is from my home state, so I give him a little leeway....

However, going with one version is a mistake. That is a total contravention of what got F/OSS(Free/Open Source Software) where it is today. Without the innovation that comes from blazing new trails your product quickly stagnates. And it's important to point out that just because one Linux distro (various flavours of Linux are called distros) does something there is NO restriction on other distros from incorperating that idea into their own product. There have been many examples of that, including my favourite distro "SuSE" which started off using one type of underlying distro (Slackware) and then switched to another (Red Hat).

There are only a handful of current distros that won't install on any x86 computer that follows standards. Notice that I mentioned 'follows standards'. There are some manufacturers that don't follow standards. For example there are some motherboard manufacturers that pass along bad DSDT tables to the operating system. From exporting the data and exploring it; they have different tables for different operating systems. And those for Linux are broken, such as the bios in my laptop. Thus, even though it looks like Linux has the problem, it's actually sabotage.

And that's even not talking about drivers; or rather lack of. Some companies are extremely good, Intel and Ralink comes to mind. And the crap about well, there's less than 2% market share and no incentive for the companies to write drivers for it, is a load of horse crap. What about supporting Windows XP (Creative!! )? There's a lot of hardware out there that doesn't have XP drivers even though it has an installed base that Vista can only have wet dreams about. But when the manufacturers of the components are in bed with Microsoft what can you expect?

And as far as 'popping' in a cd and getting it to work; there are so many drivers in the Linux kernel it's insane. For instance, one thing that GaryA didn't mention is that the phone was detected on his system. He was simply unable to configure it to work as a modem. And that was without installing any drivers. Can the same thing be said of Windows?

Well fellow Buckeye, I have Ubuntu Hardy Heron on a hard drive. It recognizes my Bluetooth dongle and recognizes both of my Bluetooth phones. I can even read the files on the phones but cannot get either of them to connect to the Internet without inputting many lines of confusing code. Why is it so difficult? My Windows XP connects to either phone automatically. Do the Linux developers enjoy keeping it confusing? And yes, I have tried many different methods found in the Linux forums and they are all confusing. I think you guys have your own language. Usually I am prompted to download certain files, that is impossible because the only Internet access I have is GPRS EDGE. Only Mandriva connects to the Internet via Bluetooth without a lot of hassle.

[autonomous_unit]

I feel for your plight. When I was in university 15 years ago, I did have to write many lines of scripts to get a dial-up SLIP or PPP connection to my school's systems on Linux. But that was because I had to write a custom "demon dialer" to try to get a (data) word in edgewise between all the other competing students who were clogging the lines.

But in the four years I've been living in Thailand, I've only ever used the Fedora GUI network manager to configure a new GPRS/EDGE connection on my Thinkpad using my Motorola phones via USB. I don't even remember most of the gory PPP configuration file formats from years ago. The only mysterious bit I needed to learn was the funny dial string and modem initialization string to type into those boxes in the "new connection" wizard. I learned those, in general, via google about eight years ago and then only had to update them with the new gateway values for each telecom provider ("internet" for AIS, versus "www.dtac.co.th" for DTAC, etc.)

The single biggest obstacle in migrating from Windows to Linux, in my opinion, is trying to take the Windows culture with you. That culture is expecting to get a random piece of hardware and chasing down the "driver disk" from the hardware manufacturer, and fighting with Windows until it works. I've been amazed at the amount of effort Windows users will put into trying different versions of drivers etc. before abandoning a piece of hardware on Windows. All of this follow-up effort instead of doing a little research BEFORE buying the hardware!

On Linux, to the contrary, the experience is usually all-or-nothing. Most supported hardware is supported immediately, or not at all. The only exception is brand new stuff that may take a little time (months) until support is added, when there isn't some other reason blocking the support, such as really uncooperative hardware vendors. Therefore, experienced Linux users will not have questions like, "how do I get this new thing to work with Linux?", but rather "what piece should I buy that is known to work well with Linux?"... if you can learn to do your research beforehand, instead of after, moving to Linux is not nearly as distressing. Only very Linux-savvy individuals should ever take the risk of trying new hardware with uncertain support status, e.g. because they are able to (and willing to) work with developers to add new support.

[adammike]

I am typing this on a seven year old sony running Ubuntu it was installed by a mate after the XP wall of death.

It was plug and play for my camera,printer.external HD with music.

With GTKPOD I can load and delete music from my Ipod.

I also have hardy heron just download the iso,and copy to a CD you do not need a dvd run it from disc

or install it.

You have the basic distro,Ubuntu,Fedora,Suse etc and anybody can make an application to run on it.

My ubuntu comes with firefox3,Evolution mail,rythembox,open officea film viewer basicly everything is there.

The depository thats where you find all the programs to download are full of anything you could possibly need

The problem is as anybody can make a application you will find loads of music players,filmviewers etc etc.

some work better than others but heres the kicker

ITS ALL FREE.

Living in thailand may mean you will have to spend hours downloading and updating for the first set up

but after that its a doddle. heres the second thing

NO MORE FIREWALL,ANTIVIRUS,TROJAN HUNTERS,SPYBOT,AD-AWARE nonsense.

NO MORE,WINDOWS,I-TUNES.

I am FREE.

[bendejo]

Start your download at night and let it come in while you're sleeping. You'll then have to burn the image to a CD and and arrange for it to be bootable. If this bit alone bores or frightens you then, as said above, don't even try. Ubuntu tries to be user-friendly, but truth is you could very well need to hack around at some point, depending on what you want to accomplish. No offense meant, as I'm a Unix veteran but these days I'm lazy about doing all that mucking around -- it's gotten old. I just spent the weekend farting around with an Ubuntu install that wouldn 't happen, so I dl'd the Debian release (I'm in Malaysia, had to dl the Debian from Thailand; started it about midnight, when I got up to piss around 5am the dl was complete). I found a bug in the Ubuntu install, but I'm too bored with whole incident to document it and submit it, especially since it'll probably be disregarded anyway.

An alternative would be to pick up a Linux CD at your local bootleg software kiosk.

Before buying it do some research on the latest versions. Most likely you will be doing a lot of googling.

I never use XP system restore, but I do an Acronis backup of my C: drive regularly and if it all goes to <deleted> I restore the partition.

[dave_boo]

I feel for your plight. When I was in university 15 years ago, I did have to write many lines of scripts to get a dial-up SLIP or PPP connection to my school's systems on Linux. But that was because I had to write a custom "demon dialer" to try to get a (data) word in edgewise between all the other competing students who were clogging the lines.

And had you been trying to run Windows it would have simply timed out! While it's easy to complain about the amount of work that it took to get Linux to do what you required, at least you were able to do it for free. And the knowledge gathered sure outweighed the negatives.

But in the four years I've been living in Thailand, I've only ever used the Fedora GUI network manager to configure a new GPRS/EDGE connection on my Thinkpad using my Motorola phones via USB. I don't even remember most of the gory PPP configuration file formats from years ago. The only mysterious bit I needed to learn was the funny dial string and modem initialization string to type into those boxes in the "new connection" wizard. I learned those, in general, via google about eight years ago and then only had to update them with the new gateway values for each telecom provider ("internet" for AIS, versus "www.dtac.co.th" for DTAC, etc.)

I've tried to get GaryA to do the same; apparently something is freaking out on his system. I've offered to fix it for him; perhaps in November if he wants me to I can make a side trip from Chiang Mai to Loei on the way back to Nakhon Sawan.

The single biggest obstacle in migrating from Windows to Linux, in my opinion, is trying to take the Windows culture with you. That culture is expecting to get a random piece of hardware and chasing down the "driver disk" from the hardware manufacturer, and fighting with Windows until it works. I've been amazed at the amount of effort Windows users will put into trying different versions of drivers etc. before abandoning a piece of hardware on Windows. All of this follow-up effort instead of doing a little research BEFORE buying the hardware!

It amazes me that so many will research a car or a toaster or TV but do absolutely no research on computer components.

On Linux, to the contrary, the experience is usually all-or-nothing. Most supported hardware is supported immediately, or not at all. The only exception is brand new stuff that may take a little time (months) until support is added, when there isn't some other reason blocking the support, such as really uncooperative hardware vendors. Therefore, experienced Linux users will not have questions like, "how do I get this new thing to work with Linux?", but rather "what piece should I buy that is known to work well with Linux?"... if you can learn to do your research beforehand, instead of after, moving to Linux is not nearly as distressing. Only very Linux-savvy individuals should ever take the risk of trying new hardware with uncertain support status, e.g. because they are able to (and willing to) work with developers to add new support.

There are all sorts of places where you can submit information to help drivers being written. For example, currrently the EV-DO modem offered by CAT only differs in firmware from that offered in the States. As soon as I'm home, I'm going to submit the information and hopefully the module will be included in a future kernel.

[astral]

Try that download of Ubuntu mentioned in a previous post.

Write it to a CD.

You can then boot from the CD and try Linux without disturbing your existing set up

and find out if you like Linux. No need to commit yourself at this stage.

Later, you can install from the CD to get a dual boot with Windows and Linux available

if you want to.

[Gary A]

I just wasted another couple of hours with new instructions how to connect my phone to ubuntu. The first commands or whatever you call them worked as it said they would. Then comes the VOODOO sudo business. It says to copy the channel number. OK I see it. Then copy the MAC address. What in the world is the MAC address?? Finally I come to a part that asks me my sudo address password. I "TRY" to type in my password. Nothing happens.

Back to my XP Pro. Everything is working great with Windows.

[dave_boo]

I just wasted another couple of hours with new instructions how to connect my phone to ubuntu. The first commands or whatever you call them worked as it said they would. Then comes the VOODOO sudo business. It says to copy the channel number. OK I see it. Then copy the MAC address. What in the world is the MAC address?? Finally I come to a part that asks me my sudo address password. I "TRY" to type in my password. Nothing happens.

Back to my XP Pro. Everything is working great with Windows.

In computer networking, a Media Access Control address (MAC address) or Ethernet Hardware Address (EHA), hardware address, adapter address or physical address is a quasi-unique identifier assigned to most network adapters or network interface cards (NICs) by the manufacturer for identification.

Putting your MAC address allows the system to know exactly which adapter to use. If you didn't, and the device was to change channels, it could be 'lost' if the system was expecting it to be on the old channel.

I don't know what to tell you about your password.....don't you have to type it in when you log on? Seems odd, unless you're not using the original account create on n00buntu.

[higgy88]

In n00buntu (I like that), when you do a sudo command in the terminal, and it asks you for your password, it does not show any indication that you are actually typing anything - no asterisks, stars, circles, etc. The curser just keeps flashing like it is waiting for you to do something. It is, however, reading what you are typing, and if you typed it correctly just push enter and it will carry out your command. If this is what you mean when you say you try to type in your password and nothing happens.

[Gary A]

In n00buntu (I like that), when you do a sudo command in the terminal, and it asks you for your password, it does not show any indication that you are actually typing anything - no asterisks, stars, circles, etc. The curser just keeps flashing like it is waiting for you to do something. It is, however, reading what you are typing, and if you typed it correctly just push enter and it will carry out your command. If this is what you mean when you say you try to type in your password and nothing happens.

I suspected that may be the case. I type in my password (nothing shows) push enter and it tells me to try again. Since I was already logged in it irritated me. Ubuntu uses the entire hard drive and I have only ever had one password. I'm frustrated again and it will be another couple of weeks before I fiddle with it again. Some day I will find the right combination or some kind soul will stop by and do it for me.

[dave_boo]

In n00buntu (I like that), when you do a sudo command in the terminal, and it asks you for your password, it does not show any indication that you are actually typing anything - no asterisks, stars, circles, etc. The curser just keeps flashing like it is waiting for you to do something. It is, however, reading what you are typing, and if you typed it correctly just push enter and it will carry out your command. If this is what you mean when you say you try to type in your password and nothing happens.

I suspected that may be the case. I type in my password (nothing shows) push enter and it tells me to try again. Since I was already logged in it irritated me. Ubuntu uses the entire hard drive and I have only ever had one password. I'm frustrated again and it will be another couple of weeks before I fiddle with it again. Some day I will find the right combination or some kind soul will stop by and do it for me.

Come the last week of November I'd be willing to help you out. Of course that will cost you a meal......

[Gary A]

In n00buntu (I like that), when you do a sudo command in the terminal, and it asks you for your password, it does not show any indication that you are actually typing anything - no asterisks, stars, circles, etc. The curser just keeps flashing like it is waiting for you to do something. It is, however, reading what you are typing, and if you typed it correctly just push enter and it will carry out your command. If this is what you mean when you say you try to type in your password and nothing happens.

I suspected that may be the case. I type in my password (nothing shows) push enter and it tells me to try again. Since I was already logged in it irritated me. Ubuntu uses the entire hard drive and I have only ever had one password. I'm frustrated again and it will be another couple of weeks before I fiddle with it again. Some day I will find the right combination or some kind soul will stop by and do it for me.

Come the last week of November I'd be willing to help you out. Of course that will cost you a meal......

A meal and a boozing session is NOT a problem.