Thai Education

[Tyke]

The Thai education system seems geared up to making (pre-school) bright, energetic, curious, active kids into morons.

Go to school and learn how to be thick.

I tend to take the conspiratorial angle. I think politicians don't really want to see an education system that turns the majority of the population into thinking individuals. It wouldn't bode well for 'democracy' in this country. I mean, they might start questioning political decisions and the basis of corruption and, bloody hel_l, they might even vote for the wrong party for free. Anything that affects the power of the ruling elite is resisted here. They want passive individuals not well educated ones. They make a show of the investment in universal education, technology and pay lip service to reform but that is a cover for doing nothing with the underlying basics. Just look how they treat examples of plagiarism.

[LindsayBKK]

My bf is a Doctor & Lecturer and he is told to pass everybody regardless. As it being an expensive University. Sorry but I can't tell you some of the stories that he comes home with. Some students are only there cause the parents want them to do that subject. I will leave it at that....

[Swelters]

Education is a very broad subject to cover and here in Thailand some areas are done reasonably well and others not so well. The same is true in a lot of countries. Some countries do a very good job of primary education, but fall short in high school and higher education. In my experience here, I feel fairly confident with primary education and see a relatively well done job, by and large.

By secondary eduction and higher things begin to break down a little more. There are a lot of poorly qualified teachers who are in front of the classrooms and don't know their material particularly well for starters. Secondly, as a very general rule, teachers aren't ever wrong and children are taught early on no to question things. This is very much cultural and in return for respect and patronage, a student will be passed. The emphasis, therefore, is on stressing cultural norms and values rather than education itself.

We also have to remember that education tends to lag behind scientific and technological advancement. My own kids were reprimanded in many ways for playing around with video games and computers--at that time it was seen as a waste of time! Now, it is how one of them makes his living. Had he listened to me, he'd be shoveling sh*t with his brother who did!

A thoughtful response to a less thoughtful OP. Against my own negative prejudices, I'm impressed with what some of the 8 to 12 year kids are doing in our fairly prosperous Isaan village. Math and EFL seem much more difficult than I remember from my elementary school years in the US. But the teachers seem a little too arrogant and the english speaking ability is shockingly poor.

Swelters

[madjbs]

Sorry but I can't tell you some of the stories that he comes home with.

Because they aren't true?

None of the well known, respected unis, just hand out degrees.

[dumball]

Sorry but I can't tell you some of the stories that he comes home with.

Because they aren't true?

None of the well known, respected unis, just hand out degrees.

Where is your scource for this and some statistics please , i am surprised you ommitted them , you are usualy so well informed .

[madjbs]

Personal experience.

I'm sure it is very easy to get a degree at some of the lower quality institutions, but all the top gov. ones require their students to work hard. Private ones are slightly easier but they still don't just hand them out.

[Twiggy44]

I'm no ajarn either but from the limited experience I have with the products of the Thai education system I'd say the problem is multi-facetted and stretches from the very bottom to the very top.

Firstly I'd like to admit that these are sweeping generalisations and there are wide variations within the profession.

1. The Thai teaching profession is not of very high standing, similar to many western countries. Therefore it doesn't attract the brightest of it's own products.

2. The resources in personnel, materials and equipment is generally very poor and over stretched. A lot of the materials are poor quality and out of date.

3. For the poorer section of society family survival depends not on education but on getting the whole family out working. Then on top of that they don't have the money to send their kids to further education.

4. For those, generally of middle class and above extraction, that make it to further education there is little pressure to learn. Why slog your guts out if you are going to get a degree anyway? The "no fail" system is consistantly failing the people and the country.

5. There's the face thing within the profession where teachers are unwilling to question the directives issued by their superiors. Their superiors are unwilling to listen to the voice of change because their way was the way of their predessors.

The Thai education system is geared to churning out rice farmers, fishermen, garment workers, shop keepers etc etc. A very thin layer of students are skimmed off to go to university or vocational college many of which, in addition to their second class qualifications, end up in dead end jobs because there is little demand for their skills.

Well that's my take on it, right or wrong, based on my observations. The Thai education system does turn out many bright young people in spite of it's best efforts to do otherwise. Will it ever change? Not all the time Thailand has this, almost feudal, system of patronage that passes for government.

YOur right Mr. Phil, I am an educator I'd been teaching English in Thailand since 2002 and because of this "no fail" education system the students. Are not willing to listen and they take it learning just granted.Why they have to listen and absorb the lesson while teacher can not fail them so...what for....

[madjbs]

Do you really teach English?

[dumball]

Do you really teach English?

My thoughts also, wonder why so many Thai speak Engalese so well and understand so little ?

[dumball]

I'm no ajarn either but from the limited experience I have with the products of the Thai education system I'd say the problem is multi-facetted and stretches from the very bottom to the very top.

Firstly I'd like to admit that these are sweeping generalisations and there are wide variations within the profession.

1. The Thai teaching profession is not of very high standing, similar to many western countries. Therefore it doesn't attract the brightest of it's own products.

2. The resources in personnel, materials and equipment is generally very poor and over stretched. A lot of the materials are poor quality and out of date.

3. For the poorer section of society family survival depends not on education but on getting the whole family out working. Then on top of that they don't have the money to send their kids to further education.

4. For those, generally of middle class and above extraction, that make it to further education there is little pressure to learn. Why slog your guts out if you are going to get a degree anyway? The "no fail" system is consistantly failing the people and the country.

5. There's the face thing within the profession where teachers are unwilling to question the directives issued by their superiors. Their superiors are unwilling to listen to the voice of change because their way was the way of their predessors.

The Thai education system is geared to churning out rice farmers, fishermen, garment workers, shop keepers etc etc. A very thin layer of students are skimmed off to go to university or vocational college many of which, in addition to their second class qualifications, end up in dead end jobs because there is little demand for their skills.

Well that's my take on it, right or wrong, based on my observations. The Thai education system does turn out many bright young people in spite of it's best efforts to do otherwise. Will it ever change? Not all the time Thailand has this, almost feudal, system of patronage that passes for government.

YOur right Mr. Phil, I am an educator I'd been teaching English in Thailand since 2002 and because of this "no fail" education system the students. Are not willing to listen and they take it learning just granted.Why they have to listen and absorb the lesson while teacher can not fail them so...what for....

Probably because their poorly educated parents do not care enough , many young people seem to have an attention deficit problem , discounting internet games , learning to listen should be taught at an early age . Having said that , have you noticed that when you are in conversation with a Thai , another just bursts in to the act about nothing relevant and the attention is given to the interdicter , they do not seem to be able to keep their half-a-brain on a subject for a reasonable time .

Detracting from Thailand a little but still relevant to the subject at hand , my wifes sister is staying with us here in PP to study English at a local school , here in PP , her handwriting is beatiful and she reads all that she writes in very good English , now we are working on her cognisance of the spoken word . I explained to her that without understanding , her studies are an absolute waste of her time and our money , she now watches English movies and talks back at the TV , reads English script and asks me to explain what she does not comprehend .

The difference i am trying to make is , Thai children go to school because they are 'Told 'to learn , this young lady goes to school because she 'Wants ' to learn , she appreciates the advantages it can give her in working life , especially in a monetary way .Oh , she is also good at math WITHOUT a calculater , my insistance .

[Tyke]

Having said that , have you noticed that when you are in conversation with a Thai , another just bursts in to the act about nothing relevant and the attention is given to the interdicter , they do not seem to be able to keep their half-a-brain on a subject for a reasonable time .

I have noticed this a lot but to be fair it happened a lot in London to me by students and I was a university teacher. It is universal now, not just in Thailand.

[Tyke]

Do you really teach English?

Maybe he only teaches conversational English

[dumball]

Having said that , have you noticed that when you are in conversation with a Thai , another just bursts in to the act about nothing relevant and the attention is given to the interdicter , they do not seem to be able to keep their half-a-brain on a subject for a reasonable time .

I have noticed this a lot but to be fair it happened a lot in London to me by students and I was a university teacher. It is universal now, not just in Thailand.

In your honest(personal) opinion , would that be due to a lax education system , or a lack of parental control and guidance ?

[MrHammer]

Sorry but I can't tell you some of the stories that he comes home with.

Because they aren't true?

None of the well known, respected unis, just hand out degrees.

yes i can prove that too as i have managed to fail a course in thai university.. i blame my female costudents for distracting me though

[madjbs]

I know an American student who has failed several

[puyaidon]

I work at a university that has supposedly international standards but it doesn't in a large way. Basically, most of the students, maybe 75% are only looking for a piece of paper that says they graduate. Do they want to learn? Some, yes, but most just want enough to pass the exams and get a grade and graduate. I am not an expert but the 75% I see should stay at home and grow up before they attend a university. Most are pushed into the university by their parents into fields that the students are not interested in. BBA students who can't cut it will end up changing facutlies to get an easier degree. Business English is one that I can say with some knowledge. Most would rather go to a tutor rather than study the material and learn. Only learn enough to pass the subject.

Teachers can be interesting. I have seen students graduate with a high GPA and turn around and become teachers in the same univerisity. Then they get a master's degree and after an interval, get a PhD. Experience, no way. It is the title that everyone is going for. Not all teachers but mainly the new ones. Farang teachers come in all sizes and good ones get frustrated with their students. Most students only want to learn what is needed to pass the tests. Most do not know what is going on in their country, either in their field of study or in the government. I have BBA students who don't even know what is going on here in Thailand. Most do not read the newspapers but rather cartoon books. Ask them about business and they can't apply what they learn to what is going on in their own country.

What really bothers me is that the students today are the future of Thailand. I know others may not agree with me but I am only passing on what I see where I work.

[Steve2UK]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. Unlike Bjob1993 (or whatever..), I find that many of the posts here show a deep understanding of Thai upbringing, formation and social control. To the OP: Take a look at this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Governm...us-t176143.html

that's awesome, exactly the kind of thing i was looking for. thanks.

#12 is a bit weird - 'on what side of the house should the bedroom be? the east' perhaps a cultural thing.

No it's a "climate" thing. The sun will be on the east/bedroom side in the morning - when you'll get up and leave it. Through the hot afternoons, the bedroom won't get direct sun and will stay cooler for the evening/night when you'll want to sleep in it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Garrison Keillor is an American humorist and commentator in Minnesota, quite witty and popular, with a big radio show. My friend just sent me this statement from him that includes this comment about basic education in America:

"In school, you couldn't get away with that garbage because the taxpayers know that if we don't uphold scholastic standards, we will wind up driving on badly designed bridges and go in for a tonsillectomy and come out missing our left lung, so we flunk the losers lest they gain power and hurt us. But in politics we bring forth phonies and love them to death."

That applies in Thailand, as well.

I meant to compliment the Thai teachers for their fine sense of clothing style. I have not worked with Filipinas, but have heard that their teaching methods are very similar - rote.

[ianh68]

a lot of people on tv (perhaps rightly) complain about the poor education system in thailand.

it's easy to see how a poor education system would leave people not knowing or - even worse - not wanting to know about other countries, languages, or anything that could give them better life chances.

the poor quality of schooling (alongside free media coverage) has also been cited as a reason for the ongoing political problems. thai education is crap. yes, we know.

but can anyone give us some actual examples, or perhaps some ajarn out there could recount some personal experiences. i.e. what kind of material do they teach from text books, what kinds of exercises are students asked to do, what experiences have people had teaching students new things, what do teachers say about farangs, do parents ever hassle for the principal etc, etc.

would be good to read some reports, or if someone could post a link to a website that would be cool too.

I found the book "Inside Thai Society" by Niels Mulder [silkworm Books] ISBN 13:978-974-7551-24-2 very useful, especially Chapter 9. There are plenty of references in the bibliography if you want to take things further.

[madjbs]

I work at a university that has supposedly international standards but it doesn't in a large way.

This is what everyone says, then later we find out that they are working somewhere nobody has every heard of, deep in Isaan. Perhaps state which BBA program you work for?

Basically, most of the students, maybe 75% are only looking for a piece of paper that says they graduate. Do they want to learn? Some, yes, but most just want enough to pass the exams and get a grade and graduate.

This is the same everywhere, unis in the UK are exactly like that as well.

My experience with Thai students is that they DO know all the information and ARE able to apply it, but, they don't shout about it in class by answering all the lecturers questions etc.. Most would rather stay quiet and think it through in their heads, that is just the way of Thai culture....

Edited September 21, 2008 by madjbs

[way2muchcoffee]

I work at a university that has supposedly international standards but it doesn't in a large way.

This is what everyone says, then later we find out that they are working somewhere nobody has every heard of, deep in Isaan. Perhaps state which BBA program you work for?

I would strongly advise against this. Legal troubles could arise. Losing the job is also quite possible.

[madjbs]

^ Fair enough,

there are a wide range of unis in Thailand however

The students that go to ABAC for eg. are normally the ones who were not clever or hard working enough to get into the good government Unis. Luckily for them, they must have had a bit of money or they would have gone to Ramkhamhaeng or similar.

Edited September 21, 2008 by madjbs

[Tyke]

I work at a university that has supposedly international standards but it doesn't in a large way.

This is what everyone says, then later we find out that they are working somewhere nobody has every heard of, deep in Isaan. Perhaps state which BBA program you work for?

Basically, most of the students, maybe 75% are only looking for a piece of paper that says they graduate. Do they want to learn? Some, yes, but most just want enough to pass the exams and get a grade and graduate.

This is the same everywhere, unis in the UK are exactly like that as well.

My experience with Thai students is that they DO know all the information and ARE able to apply it, but, they don't shout about it in class by answering all the lecturers questions etc.. Most would rather stay quiet and think it through in their heads, that is just the way of Thai culture....

I fully agree as a former university teacher in London - and in a not so good uni, probably equivalent to a Thai one. I think if you link university education to training for employment, eg by requiring all employees to have a 'relevant' degree involving the acquisition of 'relevant' skills then you will get students on that course who are only interested in the paper at the end of it. Education nowadays almost everywhere including the west is merely training in preparation for further in service training. It stems from the increasing need to satisfy the complex requirements of industry. This then leads on to massive expansion of the university system usually with inadequate funding and a general lowering of standards and multi-tier university quality. But overall I think it is a good thing for the population as a whole. The kids may not come out of it as 'thinking individuals' but they sure think a bit more than if left unemployed, selling fruit or planting rice like their fathers. Or do they?

[coalminer]

OFF-TOPIC

i see students laden down with kilograms of books going into Melbourne University,

I fail to understand why students today are carrying "kilograms of books".

Today, every University student has at least a sophisticated calculator which is not bigger or heavier as a pack of cigarettes where I was carrying every day a very heavy list of the logarithmic numbers. I was carrying also a heavy dictionary to school where every student of today has more dictionaries built-in in their cellphone that I could every carry. And their dictionaries are more sophisticated and can "speak".

One prominent programmer at that time did even stated in public that it was impossible to make a wristwatch with a built-in calculator as the end result would be to big to carry around the wrist due to the keyboard.

[myauq]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. Unlike Bjob1993 (or whatever..), I find that many of the posts here show a deep understanding of Thai upbringing, formation and social control. To the OP: Take a look at this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Governm...us-t176143.html

that's awesome, exactly the kind of thing i was looking for. thanks.

#12 is a bit weird - 'on what side of the house should the bedroom be? the east' perhaps a cultural thing.

No it's a "climate" thing. The sun will be on the east/bedroom side in the morning - when you'll get up and leave it. Through the hot afternoons, the bedroom won't get direct sun and will stay cooler for the evening/night when you'll want to sleep in it.

what room do they have on the east side of the house then?

[LindsayBKK]

Sorry but I can't tell you some of the stories that he comes home with.

Because they aren't true?

None of the well known, respected unis, just hand out degrees.

And you know this because? please explain

I think you need to read the book "Bridging The Gap"

Also I am talking about medical students not just teaching english.

He failed 2 students in 1 year (0ut 0f about 200) only cause they had a total lack of understanding the basics.

If he asks a student a difficult question they just breakdown in tears.

What you have never had a telephone/customer service operator hang-up on you cause she couldn't answer your question? Lucky you

And let's not talk about Thai Teachers, even Professors, stabbing each other in the back and doing the blame game.

I think I should write a book. Bridging the Gap is a bit boring compared to stories I hear. True Stories!

[philo]

To the OP:

There is nothing magic with the east side of the house. East = sun in the morning - West = sun in the evening.

What is important: Do not sleep with your feet directed towards the south: This is somewhat equivalent to the way dead people are resting.

Thais are social people: Na bahn (the front of of the house) must oversee the road. Half the house is for sleeping - the rest is for nang len (same same siesta me thinks). The direction of the bedroom windows will depend on the street/soi.

Please excuse me if I am wrong ...

[myauq]

To the OP:

There is nothing magic with the east side of the house. East = sun in the morning - West = sun in the evening.

What is important: Do not sleep with your feet directed towards the south: This is somewhat equivalent to the way dead people are resting.

Thais are social people: Na bahn (the front of of the house) must oversee the road. Half the house is for sleeping - the rest is for nang len (same same siesta me thinks). The direction of the bedroom windows will depend on the street/soi.

Please excuse me if I am wrong ...

yes i do get it.

what i was getting at was - why is this taught at school, in a freeking test??

a more appropriate and useful question would be 'from what direction does the sun rise/set?' then the question about housing design could be used for background info.

'Thais are social people' - all people are social people! Thais no more, no less, than other races of people. most houses around the world face the street, for convenience of access reasons (i.e. driveways, road access, pathways). there is nothing special about thai culture in that respect. having said that many thai houses and apartments don't face the road, just like in other parts of the world.

Thais are also superstitious people. i disagree that superstitions should be taught at school; rather the opposite - i.e. reasons why some people believe in certain things, and others don't produce more reasoned pupils, able to make up their own minds when it comes to building and buying houses.

somehow, i don't they teach students which direction to face when sleeping at school (thankfully). i could be wrong....

[coalminer]

What is important: Do not sleep with your feet directed towards the south: This is somewhat equivalent to the way dead people are resting.

/quote]

Is this the same as the Chinese "Feng Shui"?

[PeaceBlondie]

Thai culture was communal (not communist), and communities teach these things. Family, neighbors, temples, markets, etc., teach children how to be part of a community. But schools should teach reading, writing, arithmetic, science, geography, true national and world history, etc. Many of those things can be taught by rote, but critical thinking and simple analysis, to solve problems and understand complex situations, needs to be taught also. Unless Thailand is a land of lies, truth telling also needs to be learned in school.