Is Bangkok A Dead End On An International Resume?

[PhilHarries]

Soutpeel, you've outdone me on a few countries but I could reduce that if I could count Scotland as separate, well the Jocks think it is, and I could almost throw in London but I worked in the British sector so it doesn't count.

To those who say thing like "I'd never work for a company that dismisses CV's with Bangkok as a location" you misunderstand the purpose of a CV, resume or whatever you want to call it. Your CV is your, in abstentia, persona or advertisement. It's sole purpose is to get you past the initial shortlisting phase and into a mano-a-mano interview. It's not that companies won't hire people who've worked/are working in Bangkok. It's that when a company receives job applications they may be in the hundreds. The first phase of the selection process usually is by someone from Human Relics, this person will be scanning the front pages of the CV's for key words out of the job specification plus looking at ages, gender etc. (I know the process is supposed to be totally non-discriminatory but if you believe that you still believe in Santa Clause). These people don't know what is required in detail so the appearance of Bangkok has a strong possibility of arousing feelings of suspicion, disgust, envy etc and the CV goes into the standby pile. You might not like it but it happens, I have personal experience of such practices in Thailand as well as elsewhere.

Then the shortlisted CV's go in front of the person doing the hiring to select the two or three candidates for interview. So he's picked two and for the third he has two equally qualified, equally experienced candidates both working in Bangkok. Number one has been working for ten years in the same company in Bangkok moving steadily upwards. Number two has done two years in Bangkok on the back of three years in Singapore following five in Hong Kong all posts again showing a steady upward progression.

So who does he choose? Both have Bangkok in their system so there's less danger of them going off the rails but one has more international experience.

As I said Bangkok does not have to be a negative factor if you don't want it to be but it depends on how it is presented. Sometimes the CV has to be a little economic with the facts and the emphasis has to be skewed to suit a particular prospect. But that's the skill of writing a CV.

[thaihome]

In our industry, location is meaningless, I only even notice out of curiosity. The positions and responsibility is what matter. What does it matter where?

TH

[Pierrot]

So it seems we agree that a Bangkok posting may raise a few flags but nothing that a good resume can't explain.

On a more personnal level, don't you think that in term of networking, meeting the people that matter for your future, Hong Kong, Singapore or Shanghai aren't better than Bangkok ? Someone said before that expats are of "better quality" in S'pore or HK than in Bangkok. Do you agree ?

[DegenFarang]

It is all about how you sell yourself and how you come off

[Johpa]

A post in Bangkok says you're laidback, not very focus on your professional career, maybe even a pervert.

Is it really what professionals think?

And you think that in the corporate world being a pervert is a bad thing?!? It never hurts to have on your resume the unstated yet implied ability to take your potential new boss on the Bangkok tour of his (wet)dreams and have it written off as a business expense.

[Travel2003]

I think in many prospective employers minds it would be a negative. It would depend a lot on the interviewer, and the background of the interviewee. However, I think a raised eyebrow, and a nudge, nudge, wink, wink would be a general response from many employers and recruitment agencies.

That must be employers and agencies that have a bad rep themself.

Show up and say you have been a Hotel Manager, Maitre D', or Chef de Cuisine in one of the 10 biggest Hotels in BKK, and you will be treated with the respect you deserve.

So bottom line is, it depends what job you had while working in BKK.

I thought I made myself very clear. Repeat, it would depend on the background of the interviewee.

Understand it also includes resume background! Do I have to spell everything out? Maybe I do.

You did, and my comment to the "I think a raised eyebrow, and a nudge, nudge, wink, wink would be a general response from many employers and recruitment agencies" is what I responded to.

[Jimjim]

You're pretty wrong about that. The Japanese have made a ton of money investing in the automobile industry here which has vaulted Thailand up to being a regional production center. Thailand is probably the poster boy for wasted opportunity. It's a country that has a very good location, a large enough population to sustain advanced industrial development, natural resources, and a close relationship with two superpowers. Yet it doesn't make use of it or squanders those opportunities in disorganization and general cultural malaise.

Ok. fair enough.

If I see a resume (CV) indicating the above, I would be impressed. Yet the first thing that comes to mind when I think of LOS is a country replete with corruption, prostitution, and stupidity at every turn. But perhaps the most prominent attribute I see in Thailand are people who are too sheepish to change their lives, much less the "clockwork" of society. Anyone with a tie around their neck, and perhaps a little money is revered. The Japs are merely milking a cow.

Well, I certainly hope you're not working in Bangkok or I'd lose all respect for you.

[lifeisrandom]

reading all these expat threads i am happy to make money the way i do

enjoy that treadmill and keep telling yourself "atleast i dont teach english"

[fidelio]

Not every city in Asia is equal on a resume. Working a few years in Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong and now Shanghai or Beijing is a major plus for an international career. A post in Bangkok says you're laidback, not very focus on your professional career, maybe even a pervert.

Is it really what professionals think?

Il y a bien qu'un francais pour poser une question pareille...

[jayjayjayjay]

Maybe I should rephrase my question.

For the upwardly mobile people *, is Bangkok a dead end on an international resume?

I agree that for the hospitality industry and the oil industry maybe not. But for other industries, I'm not really convinced.

An other way to look at it . With internet, depending of your job, you can almost work from wherever you want. If you tell your boss or your customer you're going to work from Bangkok / Thailand, what would be his first reaction ?

* : Those regarded as advancing rapidly in economic and social standing.

It's a sad world where a question like this has to be asked, the reality, possibly yes, the fallout, totally up to you the individual, if your so obsessed with being a VP at Lehman Brothers then go for it........ lol 5555

[quiksilva]

Troll

[Pierrot]

reading all these expat threads i am happy to make money the way i do

enjoy that treadmill and keep telling yourself "atleast i dont teach english"

To answer yours and an other post, some time we do what we can, not always what we want.

There is a very famous French Canadian song "The millionaire's blues" "J'aurai voulu etre un artiste ..." I wish I could be an artist ...

[Pierrot]

Troll

Why ? Greed is bad but ambition is good. Without ambition we still would be amoeba at the bottom of the ocean, or monkeys beating our chest in the middle of the savanna shouting "troooollll". By the way, for people having doubts about evolution, they can observe the lasts of these primitive apes during PAD rallies, beating their empty brain's cavity and shouting "Sondhiiiii" (believed to be a recent form of troll ).

Anyway, maybe my style is aggressive, but I'm sick and tired of people thinking of Bangkok as THE place for perverts and sexual predators. The point I want to make is Thailand is also the right place for young, and not so young, professionals with a future.

Now if you dream of the dolce vita, nothing wrong with that. But I've still a few years ahead of me before I can afford it. So if I wish to spend these few years in Thailand, what's wrong with that ?

[keemapoot]

Really, the whole thread is kind of sad. Everyone knows the upwardly mobile professionals who come to Asia make their marks in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai or Tokyo. There is certainly a huge movement now in India. There are, of course, isolated pockets of opportunity in places like Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia and other 2nd tier countries of Asia, but they are not substantial. And, most of the upper management positions go to Thais.

It's humorous to see posters like Bendix defending Thailand because he happened to have good luck here thanks to his nice initial posting as a business manager with an MNC law firm that allowed the rest to follow. However, even though many Thai expats believe he's a stuperstar, by standards in the other first tier markets I mentioned, he, his job, and his package are de minimis compared with first tier markets.

Now, having said that about hired salaried people who work for others, let's discuss entrepreneurs. Sadly, most of the same analysis follows. The framework just does not favour expat owners of small businesses that can grow them to substantial profitable concerns in Thailand. Contrast that to the places I mentioned in the first tier...so many examples.

Bottom line: If your profession is a technical or operational one, such as in oil services, auto production, or perhaps banking, I don't think a Thailand posting would do any damage. Otherwise, yes, it's a step backwards and frowned upon.

[lifeisrandom]

The framework just does not favour expat owners of small businesses that can grow them to substantial profitable concerns in Thailand. Contrast that to the places I mentioned in the first tier...so many examples.

please explain this further if you dont mind thanks

[keemapoot]

The framework just does not favour expat owners of small businesses that can grow them to substantial profitable concerns in Thailand. Contrast that to the places I mentioned in the first tier...so many examples.

please explain this further if you dont mind thanks

Of course. Firstly, corporate formation rules in places like Hong Kong & Singapore and other first tier Asian markets are open, transparent, easy to comply with and implement. Concomitantly, work permits, Visas, etc., and eventually attainment of Permanent Resident status are also straightforward, transparent, unchanging and attainable. Banking, both foreign currency and local currency in those places is easily done. Hiring local or foreign talent is up to the business owner, there is not the rule to hire 4 or whatever locals to every foreigner. There are many, many, other factors. But, these things allow the business investor to grow the business, with talent he trusts, into a going concern, and make a thing of value.

In Thailand, there are endless corruption issues to deal with, endless lists of businesses foreigners cannot participate in, complicated Visa restrictions and work permit restrictions, severe limitation of ownership of property by foreigners....whew. Why do I bother with a laundry list?

Get a Thai wife, get some advantages, but only if you never get divorced. Get a Thai company, welcome all your Thai partners, any of which can throw you a curve at any time.

This isn't a rant. And, it's certainly not complete. But, if you ask me to extoll the virtues of opening a company in Hong Kong or Singapore I would sing the praises....

[Pierrot]

The framework just does not favour expat owners of small businesses that can grow them to substantial profitable concerns in Thailand. Contrast that to the places I mentioned in the first tier...so many examples.

please explain this further if you dont mind thanks

We started a company in three days in HK, no local share holders, complete control of the bank accounts, minimum legal requirements.

To put things in perspective, we also have a company in China but so far no plan for Thailand, too many legal hassles.

[bravingbangkok]

I have no problem with basing my business in Thailand, More often than not I get the comment 'wow u are based in Thailand, you are so lucky what a beauti'....yeah yeah bla bla bla land of smiles and all that

Trust me Tokyo is twice as bad as Bangkok hahahaha If you do not believe me go and find out

[keemapoot]

I have no problem with basing my business in Thailand, More often than not I get the comment 'wow u are based in Thailand, you are so lucky what a beauti'....yeah yeah bla bla bla land of smiles and all that

Trust me Tokyo is twice as bad as Bangkok hahahaha If you do not believe me go and find out

I truly wonder if you base your business in Thailand, or merely base yourself in Thailand. Nothing wrong with basing yourself in Thailand and enjoy good business and a great lifestyle. Many of us do that....

[bravingbangkok]

reading all these expat threads i am happy to make money the way i do

enjoy that treadmill and keep telling yourself "atleast i dont teach english"

What was the point of this comment ?

[bendix]

Really, the whole thread is kind of sad. Everyone knows the upwardly mobile professionals who come to Asia make their marks in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai or Tokyo. There is certainly a huge movement now in India. There are, of course, isolated pockets of opportunity in places like Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia and other 2nd tier countries of Asia, but they are not substantial. And, most of the upper management positions go to Thais.

It's humorous to see posters like Bendix defending Thailand because he happened to have good luck here thanks to his nice initial posting as a business manager with an MNC law firm that allowed the rest to follow. However, even though many Thai expats believe he's a stuperstar, by standards in the other first tier markets I mentioned, he, his job, and his package are de minimis compared with first tier markets.

With respect (of which, truthfully, I feel none), allow me to make three points.

1) Luck had nothing to do with it. I made it happen.

2) I have since built upon that to turn down jobs in HK and Singapore (although, admittedly, a London offer is tempting me right now)

3) You know NOTHING about my package or how 'de minimis' it might be, you pissant.

[edited to add 'you pissant']

Edited September 18, 2008 by bendix

[bravingbangkok]

I have no problem with basing my business in Thailand, More often than not I get the comment 'wow u are based in Thailand, you are so lucky what a beauti'....yeah yeah bla bla bla land of smiles and all that

Trust me Tokyo is twice as bad as Bangkok hahahaha If you do not believe me go and find out

I truly wonder if you base your business in Thailand, or merely base yourself in Thailand. Nothing wrong with basing yourself in Thailand and enjoy good business and a great lifestyle. Many of us do that....

Of course I love it here and that is part of the reason why I base my business here

[steveromagnino]

With respect (of which, truthfully, I feel none), allow me to make three points.

1) Luck had nothing to do with it. I made it happen.

2) I have since built upon that to turn down jobs in HK and Singapore (although, admittedly, a London offer is tempting me right now)

3) You know NOTHING about my package or how 'de minimis' it might be, you pissant.

[edited to add 'you pissant']

well, certainly I would have used the brackets like ( and ) rather than [ and ] but I get your drift.

[lifeisrandom]

reading all these expat threads i am happy to make money the way i do

enjoy that treadmill and keep telling yourself "atleast i dont teach english"

What was the point of this comment ?

just that there seems to be alot of BS and politics involved in working in an expat office environment. look at the bickering, anger and jealousy in this thread.

[bravingbangkok]

reading all these expat threads i am happy to make money the way i do

enjoy that treadmill and keep telling yourself "atleast i dont teach english"

What was the point of this comment ?

just that there seems to be alot of BS and politics involved in working in an expat office environment. look at the bickering, anger and jealousy in this thread.

Ok got ya Just wasnt sure what you meant.

[keemapoot]

Really, the whole thread is kind of sad. Everyone knows the upwardly mobile professionals who come to Asia make their marks in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai or Tokyo. There is certainly a huge movement now in India. There are, of course, isolated pockets of opportunity in places like Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia and other 2nd tier countries of Asia, but they are not substantial. And, most of the upper management positions go to Thais.

It's humorous to see posters like Bendix defending Thailand because he happened to have good luck here thanks to his nice initial posting as a business manager with an MNC law firm that allowed the rest to follow. However, even though many Thai expats believe he's a stuperstar, by standards in the other first tier markets I mentioned, he, his job, and his package are de minimis compared with first tier markets.

With respect (of which, truthfully, I feel none), allow me to make three points.

1) Luck had nothing to do with it. I made it happen.

2) I have since built upon that to turn down jobs in HK and Singapore (although, admittedly, a London offer is tempting me right now)

3) You know NOTHING about my package or how 'de minimis' it might be, you pissant.

[edited to add 'you pissant']

Au Contraire, little poseur.

I do know a lot about your situation.

Luck had a lot, or most to do with it. I mean, who really needs a lower level business manager to to run the operations of a Bangkok office of a major world law firm. Doh.

You tout your little middle management experience and package as though you were a billionaire and attempt to put everyone else down. You must feel so superior to all the teachers and others on this forum, huh?

Thailand is full of struggling lower level people who must think you are such a superstar.

You're pathetic, really.

You didn't have the discipline or intelligence to become an international lawyer worthy of such a firm, yet you hold your measly "business manager" expat position out there as the penultimate example for all expats in Thailand to follow.

What crap.

Edited September 19, 2008 by keemapoot

[bravingbangkok]

Alot of bi8tching on this forum lolol

[bendix]

Au Contraire, little poseur.

I do know a lot about your situation.

Luck had a lot, or most to do with it. I mean, who really needs a lower level business manager to to run the operations of a Bangkok office of a major world law firm. Doh.

You tout your little middle management experience and package as though you were a billionaire and attempt to put everyone else down. You must feel so superior to all the teachers and others on this forum, huh?

Thailand is full of struggling lower level people who must think you are such a superstar.

You're pathetic, really.

You didn't have the discipline or intelligence to become an international lawyer worthy of such a firm, yet you hold your measly "business manager" expat position out there as the penultimate example for all expats in Thailand to follow.

What crap.

And in this post you reveal, once again, you know nothing about my situation. I don't run the Bangkok office. Never have. I run (or did run until I quit a few weeks ago) the Asia operations, but chose to be based in Bangkok.

Where did luck come into it? You seem to know more about me than I do - perhaps you'd like to elaborate? No? I thought not.

If you'd like to reveal more about my situation, please do. Would you like a copy of my resume to help you?

Edited September 21, 2008 by bendix

[Pierrot]

Au Contraire, little poseur.

I do know a lot about your situation.

Luck had a lot, or most to do with it. I mean, who really needs a lower level business manager to to run the operations of a Bangkok office of a major world law firm. Doh.

You tout your little middle management experience and package as though you were a billionaire and attempt to put everyone else down. You must feel so superior to all the teachers and others on this forum, huh?

Thailand is full of struggling lower level people who must think you are such a superstar.

You're pathetic, really.

You didn't have the discipline or intelligence to become an international lawyer worthy of such a firm, yet you hold your measly "business manager" expat position out there as the penultimate example for all expats in Thailand to follow.

What crap.

And in this post you reveal, once again, you know nothing about my situation. I don't run the Bangkok office. Never have. I run (or did run until I quit a few weeks ago) the Asia operations, but chose to be based in Bangkok.

Where did luck come into it? You seem to know more about me than I do - perhaps you'd like to elaborate? No? I thought not.

If you'd like to reveal more about my situation, please do. Would you like a copy of my resume to help you?

Both of you used to make interesting points but now you're reaching new low with every post. I believe we already have enough dumb posters without you joining the lot. Your contribution are usually well regarded, if you can maintain the same standard, it would be appreciated.