Possible Change In Dependents Of Retirees

[mojaco]

Yesterday my friend who is a foreigner whose wife is also a foreigner went to Suan Plu to apply for his first "retirement extension". While there the Thai lawyer who was helping him told him that Immigration has sent a recommendation "upstairs" (to a higher level) for consideration of eliminating the spouse having his/her retirement extension "free", that is, as a dependent on the main spouse's retirement extension. The lawyer did not know what the "upper level" might or might not do, nor when. So this particular bit of news is just to alert we foreign retired couples (which we ourselves are) to have contingency plans in place if need be at some point. Immigration actually did this change for a very few weeks back in July-August 2006, then backed off. I hope they drop this idea once and for all.

[Maestro]

Immigration did that in September 2007, because of a discrepancy between Royal Thai Police Order No. 606/2549 and the Ministerial Regulation on which that Police Order is based. See this post made by Sunbelt at the time:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1547679

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Maestro

[Maestro]

mojaco, so what actually happened during that visit to Suan Phlu. Retirement and dependant extensions are usually given on the spot. Did the man get his retirement extension immediately, and the wife’s application was put on hold?

Would be nice if you could get your friend to register on ThaiVisa and keep us updated, as this is undoubtedly a worrisome development for many ThaiVisa members.

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Maestro

[mojaco]

mojaco, so what actually happened during that visit to Suan Phlu. Retirement and dependant extensions are usually given on the spot. Did the man get his retirement extension immediately, and the wife’s application was put on hold?

Would be nice if you could get your friend to register on ThaiVisa and keep us updated, as this is undoubtedly a worrisome development for many ThaiVisa members.

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Maestro

I just called my friend and he said he would sign up tonight and tell more exactly what he knows and what his situation is.

[astral]

Straight from the horses mouth is always better than the rumour mill.

[amnbkk]

Yesterday my friend who is a foreigner whose wife is also a foreigner went to Suan Plu to apply for his first "retirement extension". While there the Thai lawyer who was helping him told him that Immigration has sent a recommendation "upstairs" (to a higher level) for consideration of eliminating the spouse having his/her retirement extension "free", that is, as a dependent on the main spouse's retirement extension. The lawyer did not know what the "upper level" might or might not do, nor when. So this particular bit of news is just to alert we foreign retired couples (which we ourselves are) to have contingency plans in place if need be at some point. Immigration actually did this change for a very few weeks back in July-August 2006, then backed off. I hope they drop this idea once and for all.

Ok, I finally got in using FireFox. Fri. I was at immigration, just me. Changing my tourist visa to 90 day non-immigrant O (retirement).

No problem. My wife was not there because she cannot change from tourist visa to non-immigrant O as a dependent of me, in Thailand. Must leave country, we'll go to Laos soon. Anyway, the para-legal with me said that a change has been submitted to the "higher-ups" for approval. This change would not allow a wife to qualify for a non-immigrant O as a dependent of her husband's O (retirement visa). She would have to qualify on her own for a O (retirement) visa. e.g. 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or prove 65,000 baht monthly income. The para-legal said she did not know if it would be approved or not, and did not know how long it would be before a decision would be made, weeks or months. She suggested my wife get her 90 day O visa asap and hopefully we would be able to both get our 1 year extensions before the change came in to effect, if it is approved.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is a crying shame that the goalposts keep moving. Retirees have no idea where they are at at any given moment. I am reminded of the Keystone Kops.

[Naam]

the dependent issue came up two years ago (in a serious way) and a year ago as a rumour. should it really come into effect it would mean real hardship for quite a number of foreigners and their partners.

[Tywais]

There was another topic posted in the last few days stating the same thing. Maybe someone can post the link here since I'm off to work. Indeed will be bad news for many and hope it doesn't get approval.

[Lite Beer]

There was another topic posted in the last few days stating the same thing. Maybe someone can post the link here since I'm off to work. Indeed will be bad news for many and hope it doesn't get approval.

The information / rumour. Was from the same poster as here.

Here is the link.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/August-2006-Again-t213612.html

Edited September 22, 2008 by Lite Beer

[Tywais]

The information / rumour. Was from the same poster as here.

Actually mojaco, the OP in that topic, was the first to mention it. That now indicates two members hearing this and hope that others will keep TV updated as to what is happening.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Was at a little restaurant in Cha Am this morning and the englishman who runs it told us that a farang couple that comes in regularly told him that they now both needed to have their own retirement visa. And apparently both needed to show the 800,000 to qualify. He said there was some talk that the 800,000 might be waved this time, but he wasn't sure of that.

He is not familiar with TV and he is the one who brought the subject up, so that makes one more source for the info. Will find out for sure in January when we renew.

[retiredusn]

I read both post's in regard to the change of dependent visa's (retired) so I went to the local immg. for Chanthaburi prov. today at 9am and asked if there were ANY impending changes to the current rule and was told too my face that the answer is NO, the lady even called Bangkok to verify this and was told the same thing "NO"...As things change daily here I beleive what was said today by the authority's but will keep a close watch in the next few days. This is fact as of today Not a rumor.

[amnbkk]

Ok, I finally got in using FireFox. Fri. I was at immigration on Fri., just me. Changing my tourist visa to 90 day non-immigrant O (retirement).

No problem. My wife was not there because she cannot change from tourist visa to non-immigrant O as a dependent of me, in Thailand. Must leave country, we'll go to Laos soon. Anyway, the para-legal with me said that a change has been submitted to the "higher-ups" for approval. This change would not allow a wife to qualify for a non-immigrant O as a dependent of her husband's O (retirement visa). She would have to qualify on her own for a O (retirement) visa. e.g. 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or prove 65,000 baht monthly income. The para-legal said she did not know if it would be approved or not, and did not know how long it would be before a decision would be made, weeks or months. She suggested my wife get her 90 day O visa asap and hopefully we would be able to both get our 1 year extensions before the change came in to effect, if it is approved.

In a few months, when my wife and I go for our 1 yr. extensions, I'll let you all know what happens. Hopefully the info the para-legal told me was rumor. I'm sure plenty of that stuff flys around the legal environment just like anywhere else. But she gave as fact, still, that really proves nothing.

[Lite Beer]

The information / rumour. Was from the same poster as here.

Actually mojaco, the OP in that topic, was the first to mention it. That now indicates two members hearing this and hope that others will keep TV updated as to what is happening.

Actually mojaco was quoting his friend who is the OP of this thread. So only one member hearing this up to now.

Until there is a formal directive from the powers that be it is of little use worrying about something that probably will never happen.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Lite Beer

[Tywais]

Actually mojaco was quoting his friend who is the OP of this thread. So only one member hearing this up to now.

Oops, forgot we were waiting for his friends comment. Sorry about that. Perhaps the two topics should be merged to avoid the confusion.

[astral]

These two rumour topics are merged and closed.

If someone can give personal experience of being refused then start a new topic.

[Maestro]

If I got this correctly, the friend mentioned by mojaco in the original post of this topic is amnbkk, who posted here in this topic.

I am generally loath to comment on rumours but now we have amnbkk’s first-hand report. At this stage, his wife has not yet applied for the dependant extension. We have at this moment no report from any member that a retiree’s wife’s dependant extension has been refused.

The information obtained by the paralegal who accompanied amnbkk to the Suan Phlu immigration office indicates that again, like in September 2007, somebody – we don’t know who – is putting forward the idea to the immigration bureau – we don’t know at what level – that a retiree’s wife should not be entitled to the dependant extension, ie that the respective clause in Police Order 606/2549 is wrong and should be invalidated. We don’t know the basis for this proposal but can easily guess that it is the same as in 2007, ie that the Ministerial Regulation that serves as authority for the issuance of Police Order606/2549 does not provide for the dependant extension of a retiree’s wife. Last year, the proponents of the abolition of this type of extension lost and it remains to be seen what will happen this time.

I agree with the closure of this topic but it was good to have amnbkk’s report so that applicants for this type of extension may be forewarned of possible complications, depending on the decision that will have to be made on this renewed proposal to abolish the dependant extension for a retiree’s spouse.

If and when a member or a member’s spouse is actually refused a retiree’s spouse’s dependant extension it will be important news and it will be good to have this reported as the original post of a new topic. In the meantime, let’s keep our fingers crossed; hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

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Maestro

[Maestro]

I inquired from Sunbelt Asia and learnt that a member of his staff obtained the following information from the Captain on behalf of the Inspector dealing with this matter (quoted with permission from Sunbelt Asia):

There is an internal order from the Commander of the immigration Bureau that states that “ the dependent for a retirement permit will not be allowed to any dependents anymore”. The Commander has informed all concern officers not to accept the 1st time application of dependent Retirement Visa in order to easily cut this permit type out of the Regulation in the future.

However, the Commander has also given the consideration power to the officers to approve or deny this type of permit during this period case-by-case. It is because this order has not been issued as an official written document yet.

In conclusion, presently, during the time that the written order has not been issued officially, the dependent on retirement visa still can be approved or be denied by consideration power of the officer. If the applicant had it before, odds are high this year they will have it granted it again. But for the first application base on this dependent permit this year it will almost never be approve, unless the applicant has an enough reasonable reason in order to convince the officer such as;

- Such applicant is a very old person.

- Such applicant needs to be in Thailand in order to take care the retiree (person who is holding Retirement permit) because the retiree is dying or has a serious illness.

- Others reasonable reasons related with the humanity subject.

*Please be advised that all special reasons must have proof.

Moreover, after the written Order is legally issued (The said Captain told me that the final meeting should be at the end of this year and then the order will be issued), there will no longer be a Dependent on Retirement permit anymore. For the person who is holding this type of dependent permit before an announcement of the written order is made, such foreigner will be allow to renew that Dependent permit (Base on retirement) for only one more year.

We have to take this information for what it is, ie verbal information given by an officer at a higher level at the Suan Phlu immigration office indicating that no written order has been issued yet. Therefore, at this point we cannot yet know whether this time such order will come to pass or whether nothing will come of it again like in September 2007. All we know right now with a reasonable degree of certainty that something is cooking again at immigration and we can but wait for the outcome.

My thanks go to the member Sunbelt Asia for having sent a member of his staff to Suan Phlu to interview the Captain on this subject.

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Maestro

[astral]

If they are really concerned with humanity,

then the fact that they are married should be enough.