พี่เขย And พี่ภรรยา

[DavidHouston]

From today's newspaper:

ซ้ำร้ายนายกฯอย่างนายสมชายย่อมเป็นที่คาดหวังทั้งจาก พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ชินวัตร พี่เขยตัวเองและนางเยาวภา วงศ์สวัสดิ์ ภรรยา ว่าจะดำเนินการให้เป็นประโยชน์กับ พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ในขณะเดียวกันนายสมชายและครอบครัวก็ถูกยื่นคำร้องหลายคดีอยู่ในชั้นของ ป.ป.ช.

Attempt at a translation:

"Even worse than that, Somchai, the Prime Minister, is expected to provide hope for both Col. Thaksin Shinawatra, his brother-in-law, and Mrs. Yaowapha Wongsawat, his wife, that [somchai] will work toward the benefit of Col. Thaksin, while at the same time, Mr. Somchai and his family have been given many requests and appeals for cases which are currently in the hands of the Office of the National Counter Corruption Commission."

Two questions:

1. The article refers to Thaksin as "พี่เขย" of Mr. Somchai. This confuses me. It is clear that Somchai is the "น้องเขย" of Thaksin. However, I thought that the "เขย" and "สะใภ้" relationship terms were for individuals who were married into a particular family, not for relatives on the husband's or wife's side. Thus, I assumed that Thaksin would be described as "พี่ภรรยา" with respect to Somchai. What is the correct relationship term here?

2. I am not sure of the meaning of ". . . ก็ถูกยื่นคำร้องหลายคดี. . . " in this context. It seems logical to assume that it means what I have said in my attempt at translation but the Thai words and phrases do not seem to be expansive enough. Please correct my assumptions.

Thank you for your assistance.

[AjarnP]

From today's newspaper:

ซ้ำร้ายนายกฯอย่างนายสมชายย่อมเป็นที่คาดหวังทั้งจาก พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ชินวัตร พี่เขยตัวเองและนางเยาวภา วงศ์สวัสดิ์ ภรรยา ว่าจะดำเนินการให้เป็นประโยชน์กับ พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ในขณะเดียวกันนายสมชายและครอบครัวก็ถูกยื่นคำร้องหลายคดีอยู่ในชั้นของ ป.ป.ช.

Attempt at a translation:

"Even worse than that, Somchai, the Prime Minister, is expected to provide hope for both Col. Thaksin Shinawatra, his brother-in-law, and Mrs. Yaowapha Wongsawat, his wife, that [somchai] will work toward the benefit of Col. Thaksin, while at the same time, Mr. Somchai and his family have been given many requests and appeals for cases which are currently in the hands of the Office of the National Counter Corruption Commission."

Two questions:

1. The article refers to Thaksin as "พี่เขย" of Mr. Somchai. This confuses me. It is clear that Somchai is the "น้องเขย" of Thaksin. However, I thought that the "เขย" and "สะใภ้" relationship terms were for individuals who were married into a particular family, not for relatives on the husband's or wife's side. Thus, I assumed that Thaksin would be described as "พี่ภรรยา" with respect to Somchai. What is the correct relationship term here?

2. I am not sure of the meaning of ". . . ก็ถูกยื่นคำร้องหลายคดี. . . " in this context. It seems logical to assume that it means what I have said in my attempt at translation but the Thai words and phrases do not seem to be expansive enough. Please correct my assumptions.

Thank you for your assistance.

David

My assumption on the first of your points is that the phrase "พี่เขยตัวเอง" refers to Pol. Col. Taksin as the (older) brother-in-law (of Somchai) and does not refer to Somchai as the older of the two. To my mind พี่เขย refers to an older brother-in-law on the wife's side. I think you have the second point exactly correct but am happy to be corrected by the more knowing of the members.

AjarnP

[Rikker]

I agree with AjarnP, the way I read it ตัวเอง refers back to the antecedent สมชาย. Even in your English translation it reads this way to me--"his brother-in-law" refers to the brother-in-law of Somchai. So in that case, พี่เขย would be right.

[Rikker]

As for the second point, I'm not sure of the legal lingo, but it means, essentially, he and his family have had many cases filed against them with the Counter Corruption Commission, doesn't it?

Edited September 23, 2008 by Rikker

[DavidHouston]

Sorry, I am still confused. The RID has:

เขยน. ชายที่มาแต่งงานกับญาติผู้หญิง, ผัวของญาติ, เช่น ถ้าเป็น

ผัวของลูกสาว เรียก ลูกเขย ถ้าเป็นผัวของป้า เรียก ลุงเขย.

" . . . a man who marries with a female relative; the husband of a relative, for example, if [the person] is the husband of one's daughter, he is called 'ลูกเขย'; if he is the husband of one's aunt, he is called 'ลุงเขย' . . . "

The same is true on the distaff side:

สะใภ้น. หญิงที่มาแต่งงานกับญาติผู้ชาย, เมียของญาติ, เช่น ถ้าเป็นเมียของ

ลูกชาย เรียก ลูกสะใภ้ ถ้าเป็นเมียของลุง เรียก ป้าสะใภ้, (ปาก) ตะใภ้.

On the other hand, the man who is the elder brother of a man's wife is called "พี่ภรรยา", etc. This is not correct? Of course, in English, both types of relationships are called "in-laws".

Thank you both for your responses.

[Rikker]

Right. Clearly you're right in theory, but I don't know how widely that distinction is maintained. The newspaper article, for one, is evidence that it's not. And in my personal experience in my family, my wife (and thus I) don't make that distinction.

[DavidHouston]

Right. Clearly you're right in theory, but I don't know how widely that distinction is maintained. The newspaper article, for one, is evidence that it's not. And in my personal experience in my family, my wife (and thus I) don't make that distinction.

I, for one, was mislead originally. I had thought that Somchai was the younger brother of Khun Ying Aaw.

[DavidHouston]

Isn't it amazing! This is from a New York Times news alert I just received:

"Alert Name: Thailand News

September 25, 2008 Compiled: 12:42 AM

An article on Sept. 16 about a political crisis in Thailand misstated the family connection between former Prime Minister Thaskin Shinawatra and his brother-in-law, Somchai Wongsawat, who was nominated by the governing party to be the next prime minister. Mr. Somchai is married to a sister of Mr. Thaksin's, not a sister of Mr. Thaksin's wife."

Well, their mistake was a bit different from the one I saw in the newspaper. Please correct me here, but if the NYT's original formulation were correct, Somchai would call Thaksin, "สามีของพี่ภรรยา"ใ

Now, if English only had the word for "เขย" . . .

I will shut up now.

Edited September 25, 2008 by DavidHouston

[Rikker]

David, I asked my father-in-law about this, and he confirmed the dictionary definitions. But when I gave him the example of the newspaper quote above, he thought about it for a minute and started to get confused about who was related to who, so he conceded that it's easy to forget which words are for which relationship.

I wonder how widespread this alternate understanding is, and if the newspaper quote above signifies a shift in meaning or if it's more of a genuine mistaken understanding. Interesting question!

Edited September 25, 2008 by Rikker