Irrigation/application Of Fertiliser

[Nickthegreek]

Hi All,

I am looking for advice really on irrigation and adding fertilser to two crops,which are fairly similar in their requirements.

I have read all of Maize farmers notes,but does anyone have any pictures they can post?? be good to see system and what you think approximate cost would be for 50 Rai ?

Nick

[Maizefarmer]

- which 2 crops?

- what chemicals and in what quantities?

- what components of the irrigation system do you already have, and if none of the parts (e.g. piping, pumps, valves ect ect .....) what type of irrigation did you have in mind (e.g. impact, rain gun, flood, dripper ecte ct .....)

50rai - its going to cost you a lot of money to do corectly - however you go a about it - and you have access to sufficent watetr and water storage to support 50rai?.

MF

[Nickthegreek]

Hi MF,

Ok here I go..

Fifty rai will be for sugar cane,this land has no water and it would need to be purchased and pumped from the local water point,something my father in law says they have done before.

The second fifty rai had a bore on the land so their is water all year round and will be cassova.

chemicals 15 -15 -15. 46-0-0 and 15-7-18

I have absolutely nothing at this momemt in time.!however not sure what the father in law has.I know he has an engine which they use as a walk behind thai tractor,albeit he uses it as a tuk tuk.

My reason for this is long term,if I look at costs today and the ever diminishing work force,I think this may be the way to go.

I really want to be able to add the fertiliser using the system.

I am working on the costs for this long term and if I use my current calculations of workforce per year,it will cost approx, 40,000 baht per year for the second adding of fertiliser.

From what I have read on your posts you have mentioned a drip system,at this stage without going too deeply into to it and I know you have masses of knowledge,maybe a ball park figure will tell me if its do able?

Regards

Nick

[Maizefarmer]

Hi MF,

Ok here I go..

Fifty rai will be for sugar cane,this land has no water and it would need to be purchased and pumped from the local water point,something my father in law says they have done before.

The second fifty rai had a bore on the land so their is water all year round and will be cassova.

chemicals 15 -15 -15. 46-0-0 and 15-7-18

I have absolutely nothing at this momemt in time.!however not sure what the father in law has.I know he has an engine which they use as a walk behind thai tractor,albeit he uses it as a tuk tuk.

Won't do - if the land is perfectly flat you could flood irrigate, otherwise your only option is to use rain guns or very very large impact heads - and they need huge amounts of water, which means a big engine - at least an old 3 litre pickup engine and preferable something like a an old 5 or 6 litre diesel gennie or tractor engine. In short you are going to be moving something liek 2 tonns of water per minute - yes 2 tons of water per minute.

My reason for this is long term,if I look at costs today and the ever diminishing work force,I think this may be the way to go.

I really want to be able to add the fertiliser using the system.

Adding fertigation to the system is the east of the problems - easily done - your problem here is your capital outlay on irrigation equipemtn to do it properly.

I am working on the costs for this long term and if I use my current calculations of workforce per year,it will cost approx, 40,000 baht per year for the second adding of fertiliser.

From what I have read on your posts you have mentioned a drip system,at this stage without going too deeply into to it and I know you have masses of knowledge,maybe a ball park figure will tell me if its do able?

No - drip on 50rai cane is non-viable - the amount of tubing you'd have to invest in is astronomical!

Your best bet - a reel cart with something like 4"-5" diameter tubing of as long as you can afford (300 - 450m) and a big rain gun - something capable of throwing 250' - 350' radius at around 7bar - 8bar through a 2" diameter nozzle! Off hand I dont know what that converts to power and volume wise (it can all be worked out) but it'll be in the region of 2 - 3tons per minute and you're going to need around 150hp 250hp

And this all means at least a 12' diameter borehole which can deleiver that volume, or a pond to hold the water drawn from the borehole - and then when the pond is full you pump from the pond.

Nick - with respect, I think you are moving forward a little fast. It's my opinion you should get a couple seasons experiance growing casava and cane without irirgation - seasonal cultivation - then give consideration to going intensive, because thats what irrigation is: its going intensive and its big capaital outlay on 50rai cane.

Anyway - the whole subject gets very complicated and would need a lot of careful palnning with a whole bunch of criteria needing to be considered and tied in together with each other. i don;t have the time now but willing to chase it with you when I get back. Perhaps other members have some ideas.

Regards

Nick

[Nickthegreek]

MF,

I hear you loud and clear.!

I am just exploring all options at this stage as to what makes life easier versus cost over time..

I have no knowledge in these areas,so I welcome any advice..

Nick

Edited September 24, 2008 by Nickthegreek

[ozzydom]

Nick, How many of the canegrowers in your area actually irrigate ? in my travels I see very little cane irrigation.

Thailands cane growing areas are based on clay type soils , which usually maintain a damp sub soil even during dry periods, this seems to be enough to keep the cane going until rains come .

If you had an adequate water supply available ,flood is probably the cheapest way , care has to be taken with low margin crops that you dont over capitolize and end up working for zilch.

Most tropical and sub tropical crops seem to perform quite well naturally without intervention.

[JungleBiker]

Nick, How many of the canegrowers in your area actually irrigate ? in my travels I see very little cane irrigation.

Thailands cane growing areas are based on clay type soils , which usually maintain a damp sub soil even during dry periods, this seems to be enough to keep the cane going until rains come .

If you had an adequate water supply available ,flood is probably the cheapest way , care has to be taken with low margin crops that you dont over capitolize and end up working for zilch.

Most tropical and sub tropical crops seem to perform quite well naturally without intervention.

I live in the north east and the reason why the main large-scale crops (besides rice) around here are eucalyptus, cassava, sugar cane and rubber is because these crops can be grown without irrigation.

[Maizefarmer]

JB makes a very valid observation (which was partly what I had in mind when I replied earlier). Those crops can be cultivated very successfully and profitably without irrigation. Of course if certain stages of the growth runs through the dry season the crop will/may benefit - but only if you are growing across the dry season and secondly, in many cases, only if the applicable stage of growth is taking place during a certain part of the dry season will the added growth/final yield (from irrigation) justify the cost of implementing it. Its not always that "black & white", but generaly it's a fair rule.

I certainly don't want to discourage you or give the impression that its not worth it - end of subject.

Far from it, as you will have noted from earlier postings I am a great proponent of irrigation myself, and cultivate a large slice of annual forage under irrigation, but it's only justified because I use the crop to support cattle i.e. because the cost of purchasing in processed forage is greater (in the dry season - when irrigation is used mainly) than it costs to produce that forage myself. If I was cultivating cane or maize to sell to the mills, it simply wouldn't be worth doing it under irrigation - the cost of the irrigation (diesel fuel) would wipe out the profit earned, or at least bring the margin down so much that the profit versus the time input made it a waste of time to grow.

Now, if you are going to use the cane, maize, and cassava crops to produce forage feed/silage for direct marketing to livestock farmers, not through wholesalers (another idea?), then yes - the argument for dry season irrigating becomes very real. There is nearly always a shortage of forage feed in the North and North East as a lot of livestock keepers in the area do not have sufficient land to support their headcount - and there is almost certainyl going to be a shortage this coming dry season because of the crop/soil damage from flooding recently to low lying areas.

[Nickthegreek]

Hi All,

I count myself very lucky to have so many people here with so much knowledge.

I personaly come from a background of business development and sales,with a touch of project management.

I have a lot of time on my hands and that for me is dangerous,I think too much.

I would say quite happily that in the future if my thinking drives me down a road which is unworkable or stupid, shout early!

I guess my main reason for the post was more to add fertiliser in an easier fashion.

I think from what I am reading now,there are a number of ways that things are done in Thailand becasue there is no other way..

Regards

Nick

[farmerjo]

Hi nick,

I apply liquid fert to my sugar,by having a 1000 litre square tank and recirculating pump.Mixing 8x50kg bags to 1000 litres of water and apply through boomspray on tractor.It gos on at 120 litres per rai.Its not the most effiecent way but very easy to do.

There are liquid fertilizers avalible (cheaper than buying by bag) but they are applied at 1000 litres per rai and row lenghts can only be 100 meters long if you want company to apply for you.

farmerjo

[Nickthegreek]

Hi nick,

I apply liquid fert to my sugar,by having a 1000 litre square tank and recirculating pump.Mixing 8x50kg bags to 1000 litres of water and apply through boomspray on tractor.It gos on at 120 litres per rai.Its not the most effiecent way but very easy to do.

There are liquid fertilizers avalible (cheaper than buying by bag) but they are applied at 1000 litres per rai and row lenghts can only be 100 meters long if you want company to apply for you.

Hi farmerjo,

I take it you use this method for the first spray? or can you use this method twicer yearly?

What is the name of the liquid fertiliser ?

The less I rely on Thais the better in moving forward,thats not a working issue,its a manpower issue,people are becoming short on the ground..

Regards

Nick

[farmerjo]

Hi nick,

Yep apply 1st application and second as you want 2nd on just as sugar starts to boot,do a little damage with tractor but comes back ok.Maybe maizefarmer can help you with a high clearence tractor.

Otherwise the company to come and spray is called soilmate,they have a few selections of fertilizer,they will come in with own staff and apply for you.Criteria is 100 meter lenght rows and minimum of 12 rai(truck load).To me nick this is the way forward as long as your land is not to wet for truck to get on.This company is a subsidury of mitr phol sugar.

[thaipak]

Hi All,

I am looking for advice really on irrigation and adding fertilser to two crops,which are fairly similar in their requirements.

I have read all of Maize farmers notes,but does anyone have any pictures they can post?? be good to see system and what you think approximate cost would be for 50 Rai ?

Nick

Hi Nick

The person growing cane is Thai and is quite progressive in his farming. He is in Banphai Khon Kaen. If u r intrsted to see his operation. Let me know. I can take you to meet him.

ALI