Taxi driver attack

[plachon]

Dexlowe, I think you're being way too harsh on Mark. I'm no expert on the Thai legal system, but I've lived here long enough to know that unless you have lots of dosh or good connections, there is very little chance you'll get a fair hearing, esp. in a case where it appears "the good reputation of Thailand" is at stake. Therefore, it is very unlikely that we, the general public, would ever get to hear anymore about this case again, even when in the mists of time it did come to court (has any clear timetable of the judicial process been given to Mark by the way?). Although, it is not the ideal way to present his side of the story, it probably is one of the best methods, given the limitations of the local press in covering such incidents, probably far more common than most people realise. One only has to pick up one of the more colourful and sensational of the Thai-language papers and one would realsie that knife attacks that lead to death and serious injury are all too common in Thailand, never mind the crime magazines (many committed under the influence of alcohol and/or hard drugs).

Mark, I think, has put across his side of the story in a calm and rational way, with his feet firmly on the ground i'd say. The loss of his friend's eye is tragic, but unfortunately in Thailand, in the greater scheme of things, this is not a major news story, and so what would have got extensive press coverage in many Western countries, is quickly buried and forgotten. Letting "justice take its course", as some posts have suggested is also a forlorn hope, I fear. Would that it were different, but don't get your hopes up.

[capital]

I truly sympathize with Sean who lost sight in one eye. Why did it have to be that way? Personally, I have had mostly negative experiences with BKK taxi drivers. I take taxis to work because I don't own a car. There are some honest ones, but the majority will go to great lengths not to give back your change. Once the fare was 60 Baht when I handed the <deleted> a 100 hundred baht not and waited for more than five minutes for my change he started yelling at me anyway, I have been BKK a very long time, so kinda know the score. Got out and walked away. It was in some dark soi near my place at 3 am! Another <deleted> drove me from Suan Siam Park in Minburi via Bangna to Ekamai! Even though I had repeadely told him to take Ramkamheang Rd and Sunday there is never traffic! Others pretend to be nice, only when you reach your destination they don't return your change... etc etc the majority, from my experience most drivers of taxis/buses/motorcycles are conmen or ex convicts. people who can't find decent employment anywhere else, perhaps?

We, the farangs in los should all be united against this kind of criminal behaviour from the part of a minority of the Thai people, and condemning it rather then condoning.

[pnustedt]

From what I read, this is indeed, an issue which the Thai "free" press should take a keen interest - if there is such a thing!

If the "victims" truely feel that they are victims they should shout all they can and the free press should report their proclamations. If the legal system is fair it should be seen to be so, if it is not, it should be exposed by the "free" press.

[Roger13]

I feel that I must record here that I have not experienced

what Capital has written.

No doubt there must be some bad Taxi Drivers

but for the benefit of those reading this who may be planning their first visit to Thailand ...

I have been here only 5 years on Retirement.

I take Taxis 2 or 3 times almost everyday.

They always try to give me change even if it is only

3 or 4 baht.

On two occaisions recently the Drivers took

a wrong / longer route - I deliberately

gave them Bht 100 and both offered MORE than

the amount of Change required from the

meter reading as compensation for their error !!!

Roger

[Edward B]

I have to agree with capital, re: taxi drivers not giving change. I suggest that next time we catch a cab we prepare ourselves by taking with us a bagful of satang coins. When we get to the destination we ask the driver if he has change for a hundred (or whatever). Wait for his resonse. If he fiddles around in his little purse for too long we then tell him: "Oh, hang on, it's ok. I've got the correct amount". Then give him the bag of coins.

Marks - very sorry about your story. I hope justice prevails.

[kwiz117]

I agree with these Taxi Driver comments and many drivers have a very bad attitude towards foreigners. Specially when they know they are Tourist, some of them even have offered me to go without the TaxiMeter though I have declined. Last year, I was trying to get a Taxi from Patpong [some other purpose] to My Apartment and then noticed many Taxis, parked along the Road waiting for customers. When my wife reached them, non-of them were ready to ride for the TaxiMeter. Wonder any of you have experienced this before.

Another story.

I usually select the newest Taxi model to ride as it give me more value for money and comfort in situations where more taxis are available to select. In one occasion, The Driver in the New Taxi we selected was very angry with my wife for selecting him coz, our Apartment was within a 40-50Bht distance and he was expecting a good deal in the night as his Taxi was new. I was really mad with the guy when I heard that he is continuously complaining my wife about this. Finally, I told the fellow in little Thai I know mixed with English to Shut Up. If it is now, I will not do it after hearing Marks story.

Also I should say that I have come across very good Taxi drivers too. Last month my Car met with an Accident and then I had the toughest challenge to communicate with the other victims coz I am very poor in my basic Thai. So my wife had to travel from her Uni to Nawanakorn and at that time, no taxi Driver was ready to take her this distance due to the heavy Rain. . But one guy have driven all the way and even helped her to locate me.

Another instance, the Taxi we were riding got stuck on the Road due to some mechanical fault. The guy apologized many times and declined any money, as he could not complete his journey.

In general I feel Taxi Drivers are some bunch of animals, when I see the way they are blocking the roads and looking the other side of the road to make no eye contact with the other vehicles passing by.

I also agree with some replies suggesting the Free Media to highlight these issues. I think English NewsPapers are very powerful because these Taxi Driver Stories will definitely effect to the countries image and tourism industry. But unfortunately, these stories are not addressed in these news papers as they are not much serious, compared to some other stories they publish. But if they go behind these stories, I am sure they will find some very serious stuff like Marks incident.

May be in Mark’s case, he is in the right side and in Hongkong Tourist Rape Case, Thai tuk tuk Driver was in the Receiving end. :cool:

[foolwholaughsatdeath]

In my oppinion attacks and aggression by taxi drivers are not that rare, especially late at night when the drivers are sometimes quite drunk or under the influence of ya ba or both.  I have had numerous arguments with drivers during my time here regarding them trying to cheat by overcharging what the meter says, not having change, or taking the long scenic route in order to pump up the meter.  I myself was attacked once with my girlfriend coming back home Phasicharean-Bang Sue area arguing over a fare, and needless to say if I am cheated now I just pay and keep silent.

I would like to point out that I am a graduate student here at one of Thailand's top universities, and I am not unversed in Thai culture.  But despite having thai language skills and an understanding of the culture, some Thai men (especially those who are intoxicated) are prone to snap and go into a violent rage at a moment's notice.  

The night in question I was out with my girlfriend and a friend of hers, we dropped her off first, and proceeded to continue along to our place.  After we dropped her off, the driver told us that he would charge us an additional 35 baht as he had to stop the car, and this was a "second trip".  In actuality we had pulled over for 5-10 seconds to let her jump out.  I told him that this was unacceptable and unfair, that I would pay him what the meter read and not a baht more.  He then decided to drive us out to a darkened soi area where there wasn't a car in sight and demand that we get out of his car.  We did so, but i was livid with his actions, and told him off.  As I got out of the car he did too and came up yelling obscenities at me, and waving his fists.  I pushed him back and told him to go away.  He got back in his car, put it in reverse and tried to run me down.  He missed and slammed his car into a concrete table like structure that was on the street corner.  My girlfriend got on the phone with the police as he got out of the car weildigng a monkey wrench.  He kept chasing us around the table, but I was able to always stay on the other side.  All this time he was shouting obscenities at me and I was hollering for help.  This went on for what seemed like forever, but was probably a couple minutes.  People in the area started to wake up and look out their windows, and the driver headed back to his car.  I had my digital camera in my bag, so I pulled it out and took a photo of him and the car's licence plate.  I told him that I would be discussing his behavior with the police.  He threatened me that the police would make him pay a 500 baht fine, but he knew where I lived(I gave him my apartment building name and address in order to get home) and would be waiting to take care of me.  He then drove off.   I spent a sleepless night, and had bad dreams for a while.  It was a traumatic experience to say the least.  After consulting with Thai friends, I decided not to go to the police, as they agreed with what he had said about 500 baht fine, and then I'd have to move or constantly be on the look out.  

A couple weeks ago I was discussing this event which happened over a year ago with another graduate student, a thai women who has been educated in New Zealand and England, and she said that a similar incident occurred to a coworker of hers when she was teaching at one of the top international schools here in Bangkok.  In his situation, he was drunk, got into the cab and told the driver the address.  The fare from the pub he was at to his home was well known to him as it was one of his regular hangouts.  Something around 45-60 baht.  But he dozed off in the cab, and when the driver woke him up, he was at his house, but the meter read over 350+  baht.  He gave the driver 60 baht and yelled at him for trying to cheat him.  As he got out of the cab, the driver came at him with a wrench and clocked him in the head.  That's the last thing he rememember.  He woke up in the hospital and spent weeks there, and still now, months after the  incident he still suffers mentally from the blow.

So while I believe that there are good/bad drivers just like any profession, I also know quite well that there are some definate maniacs in the profession, so watch out, don't argue about a 100 baht or so and always try to be polite despite how they may act, you could end up losing an eye or suffering from permanent brain damage.

Marks, I totally feel for you and your friend Sean.  I hope that bastard gets sent away for a long long time.

[Butterfly]

Bangkok used to be safe and I never had any problem with taxi. However in less than 2 years, the difficult conditions of taxi drivers and the increasing number of drivers has made it more likely to have a "bad" taxi ride.

Same with me, from Cow boy to my apartment, it usually cost me 50 bath, but one night one taxi I took had the meter at 90 bath (tempered meter). Something was wrong. I told him so and threw 60 bath (50 bath + tip) at him and threatened to call the Police. He said "go ahead call the police". I just left and let him talk with the 2 security guys of the building. They kicked his ass out. He got his money and the actual "Fare" so there is nothing he could do.

[ChiangMaiThai]

I really can't fathom why there isn't more sympathy for these two guys here. They are slashed in the face with a machete by a crazy taxi driver and the majority of members say simply to 'leave it alone'. What's going on here? And why didin't the Bangkok Post actually cover the story? It is, after all read by mostly farangs who would be interested to know what happened that night. Or are the controls on freedoms here so much that the Bangkok Post is not free to print what they wish?

[capital]

I really can't fathom why there isn't more sympathy for these two guys here. They are slashed in the face with a machete by a crazy taxi driver and the majority of members say simply to 'leave it alone'. What's going on here? And why didin't the Bangkok Post actually cover the story? It is, after all read by mostly farangs who would be interested to know what happened that night. Or are the controls on freedoms here so much that the Bangkok Post is not free to print what they wish?

Right on post.

I am pretty disgusted to say the least by the lack of sympathy to Mark and especially Sean, For Christsakes he lost an eye because of the incident. What kind of poeple are you guys, all Thaiophiles OR WHAT? Those two guys need our support and not our condemnation. Farangs need to be united when in trouble and help each other out, just like the Thais do; and especially now with the current government fuelling hatred against foreigners in Thailand. I have lived over 10 years in los and I have seen it all. True there are a few good ones but the majority are <deleted>. And I don't even talk to them when I am riding in a taxi, so no provokation from my part or my missus' part.

Just remembered,

A couple of years at the airport got myself a slip form the counter and got in a queue for a taxi. As soon as we got in the taxi I said meter on please. he laughed and drove off. I said meter please or we will get out. he stopped for a second and finally switched the meter on. The rude bastard spent the entire trip from Don Muang to Bangkapi cursing at us, braking, excessively speeding and so on. I ordered the kids and the missus to remain calm. Anyway, when we got to our destination the meter showed exactly 99 Baht, i took my luggage out first in case he was gonna do a runner and gave him a 100 Baht note. He started cursing again yelling obseinities and called me a kwai. I took the TiT approach and escorted my family in and locked the front of the gate, just in case.

6 months ago I needed to go to the ATM to purchase tickets at the Southern Bus Terminal. Anyway, the only ATM machine was out of order. Since I was not familiar with area I jumped in a taxi and said in Thai "take me to the nearest ATM". After the ######er drove me past what must have been at least 5 banks with ATM machines , I yelled stop. take me to a <deleted> ATM now.... anyway, all I can say to everyone taking the time reading this, BEWARE of the Bangkok taxi drivers, most are unscrupulous!

To mark and Sean, I am not a lawyer, but if you need help/advise feel free pm-ing me.

Oh, and never get into a "parked" taxi (near major hotels or entertainment venues) these are controlled by Thai mafia.

[plachon]

To the original posters :Mark & Sean, have you had any feedback on your case, either from the police or justice system, as to what's happening? As this case has potential implications for all people who ride taxis in Bangkok, about how the law works. Please follow up, if you're still about.

[dtoodnut]

You have to watch it.   It is very easy to get them pissed off.  Coming back from Pattaya I was busting this drivers chops verbally in mixxed Angrit and Thai...really just kidding him about why on earth he could be driving this nice Benz and have a shredded spare in the trunk.  We were about 15 miles out of Pattaya on our way to the Don Muang Airport and our flight was in 3 hours.   My buddy told me that this guy was ready to tear my throat off.  I looked at him and he was shaking with fury in his eyes and his hand was all contorted like he was about to pull my heart out and hand it to me.  I am glad I shut up at that point as this guy was big and cut.  You have to remember that they are the toughest people on earth and the smallest skinniest little Thai dude is capable of kicking almost any farhang ass...even a prize fighter.  In BKK I took a cab when it started raining exactly one year ago and this cabbie got angry that I didn't speak the lingo, and accused me of being over there for sex.  When I told him that HIV was the #1 cause of death there, that I am scared to have "hired" sex and that I brought my girlfriend there, he took it the wrong way and dumped me at some sudsy massage place and told me to go there and the ride was free.  When I tried to pay him he put his opened hand over my face with a grabbing, pushing motion and I was afraid he was going to pluck my eyes out.  SCARY!!  Cabbies worldwide cause problems, even in Japan I have been overcharged but I have tended bar in NYC and and froggy Englishmen there on many occasions refused to pay checks and cause trouble.   BTW, it was the Rich, big & muscular,  "blue blood" looking-talking Englishmen, not the blue collar that usually caused problems..  Funny how they back down like little puppies with their tale between their legs when the cops threaten to take them to an American gay dungeon (average US prison).

[chonabot]

You have to remember that they are the toughest people on earth and the smallest skinniest little Thai dude is capable of kicking almost any farhang ass...even a prize fighter.  

Hmmm , like to see that one proved !

Granted they are tough people , but having trained in a boxing camp ( Sityodtong ) I can safely say that there are tough Thais and un-tough Thais.

In a scrap situation they will probably put more effort in than a tourist/expat  because they have less to lose, but if they receive more than they expected they will back off like any other race.

[dtoodnut]

I assume they are all capable and play it safe.  Kind of like assuming all BG'ze GOT "IT".  Per capita they are probably the toughest tranquillo people on earth (kow-jai?)  I enjoy keeping my teeth intact.   I saw an  crazed Austrian drunk get roundhoused and left toothless by some Thai guy the size of an 13 year old farhang kid and a Swede on another occasion get thumped to shit by a cabbie for (probably) hozing his driver as he was trying to make a quick getaway and looking back as he did it.  I came to each of these peoples aid on two different trips to Pattaya.  In many US states kicks and blows to the throat are considered assault w/a deadly weapon, and this is the result of wicked SE Asian ass woopings, but mostly Viet over here.

[dtoodnut]

Wait, about Bangkok Cabbies>>>>I had one take me from Suk & Soi 4 to Banglampoo FOR FREE!!   All I had to do was hit 3 shops so he could get a 10 litre petrol(fuel) coupon from each.  The shops weren't the usual tourist trinkets either.  One was this Turban Cowboy (forgot how to spell Seik) tailor shop called James.   This shop is the best trouser mfgr in the world.   $35 USD for machine washable tropical wool custom made troozerz, delivered to your hotel, double stitched and satin lined that are as durable as a pair of Levis, only as cool as a pair of shorts.  The other two shops were great too.   A sting ray wallet/leathergood shop too, but beware>>>they will erase the magnetic strip on a bank/check/visa card!!!!  They are pretty good for the most part...nobody beats a London Cabbie, but I'd take a Bangkok Cabbie over a NYC cabbie!!!  The secret is to not provoke this short fused, barely 5' guys.

[dtoodnut]

SORRY SORRY....lost and eye?   That is messed up.  Even the private hire drivers get out of hand sometimes.   One that I have used 5 times, made some poor provincial gal with me cry and insulted my brother and friends on another trip....the Thai law of diminishing service!   Is Mace legal?   I'd just spray the punk, run around the corner and take a motorcycle taxi to another part of town.  Just don't let them get ahold of you!  You are right about the ice/booze head as MY one bad incident in BKK with a driver that had mekong breath (whiskey) and was behaving in a ting-tong fashion (like a wired/boozed guy).  Just like the face drano and vodka go hand in hand in the US same-same w/ya-bah and whiskey in SE Asia.  I like to take a motorcycle taxi, even if I am with a pooying we split up and take them.  It is a blast...just watch the knees.  The girls love riding them too.   BUT, I must have read the wrong post because I cannot fine the original with the lost eye and the machete.  All I saw was the screwdriver post.  If I am jumping in a cab and he doesn''t immediatly start the meter or if my greeting is not met with the traditional, polite Thai response, I just hop out right then and there.  I have noticed a major "MOOD-SWING" in the Cabbies and the Pooying by the beach in the LOS.

[chonabot]

Dude , you know your Taxi drivers!

Chung-loi , kow-jai mai ?

[Nam Kao]

I was with a bunch of girls and we hailed a cab and took

it back to my hotel. I got in the front seat to squeeze em all

in the back (it was mint making 6M baht a year living in BKK). After

a few minutes the Taxi driver reached over and grabbed

my stomach laughing at me calling me pom poo ee (fat).

I wasnt that fat so i looked over at the driver and reached

over grabbed his fat gut and said "Ting Tong, you pom poo

ee- same moo".  Man this guy got steamed and I could of

fried an egg on his forehead. Nothing happened but I watched

his hands the rest of the way.

[Nam Kao]

Regarding Thais being super tough etc

I think their strength is they'll commit 100% to a fight and basically

"Attack and Hit with no fear and bad intentions". This will

cause most falangs to fold mentally and not fight well.

There weakness is this strength is brought on by their

quick temper and anger.  

If your an experienced boxer you can pick them apart. When

someones angry they make huge mistakes fighting and you

can capitalize on them if you have patience, timing and

experience.

I fought and sparred some thais. I just let them throw the

wild crap and I pick em apart with sharp straight punches and

leg kicks. They never expect a falang to throw a leg kick for

some reason. Also the non-boxers tire quickly.

Pick up a Kobaton there, they are priceless in an exchange.

regards

nam

[chonabot]

Ah yes the low leg kick ( Tae Tad ) is priceless.

I made the mistake of having the Thai characters for this tatooed on my left arm whilst drunk one day. Now everytime it is visible to Thai people I get a huge amount of interest which occasionally ends up in a forced demonstration.

D'oh

[markt]

Dude , you know your Taxi drivers!

Chung-loi , kow-jai mai ?

Mai kow Jai.

Chung-loi, parsar angrit, plair war arai  ?

[markt]

[chonabot]

Chung-loi - jing-loi - jing-jing - True/not untrue/for real/unlike Valentino accomodation/

[markt]

Kow Jai Laew.  kob Khun Khrap.

[chonabot]

Mai mee bpen hah lok . Kuhn Suzy tee nai Khrap?

[markt]

Mai roo Khrap,  dair Soi Suzi yoo tee...under the coconut tree.

[12call]

are we off topic ere?

[chonabot]

Before your time me old China....

[edd]

Its all very well talking about what you would or are able do in a fight with a Thai, the fact is its better and wiser to walk away or run away.

It does not matter what they think of you or your country men.

Fighting for any reason other than to save your or some one elses life is stupid.

Its not weather you can its if you need to.

E. Jackson

Chief Instructor Jin kok (1976- 1998)

2nd Dan Karate ( Shukukai, Shotokan )

2nd Dan Judo

2nd Dan Ju jit su

Master Kung <deleted>

Now over weight, old and full of Arthritis.

[p_brownstone]

In over 30 years in Thailand I have never come close to a confrontation with a Taxi Driver, Street Vendor or anyone in a similar situation and it amazes me sometimes that so many Farang get into such trouble.

It's not even a matter of differences between the cultures or whatever, it's common sense.

Think of the life these people lead - for example a Taxi Driver in Bangkok. Working 8 - 10 hours a day in Bangkok traffic to earn a profit of maybe Baht 150 - 200 a day, he lives in a small hut - a small apartment if he's lucky, probably with a wife and 3 or more children who have to survive on what he brings home, or he has had to leave them up-country and send money home every week or so. If he falls ill he does not eat, and he has no savings for medical expenses anyway, he can't take a day off for any reason without forfeiting his income for that day.

He faces this life 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year with absolutely no prospect of an improvement in his situation in the future.

One night he again picks up some Farang, say from a bar where the Farang has spent more money in 1 night than the chap earns in a week, or takes the Farang to his Apartment, the monthly rent for which is the Drivers income for 3 months.

Even an unintended slight can push him over the edge, and the bottom line is he has absolutely nothing to lose ...... if he attacks the (to him) arrogant Farang with a brick or whatever, at most he will spend a year or so in jail - so what? the crowded conditions there are probably not much different from the way he lives at home, and he gets free food and lodging too.

If you remember nothing else, remember this .... he has nothing to lose, you do.