How Often Do You Have To Return To The Tone Rules ?

[mynextgig]

Question for the advanced non-native thai readers on this forum.

How often do you need to return to the tone rules when reading thai in newspapers, subtitles etc ?

Most Thai's i know dont have a clue how to explain the tone rules, they just have a vast memory bank of most of the words they see everyday and can read, write and speak them without thinking about it. Just as i can and do in English.

So i am keen to know how long it takes for a non-native to get to this level of fluency.

[wasabi]

Since I have learned them I never need to reference them. But I am not fluent.

[meadish_sweetball]

I know them by heart and never need to reference them since I drilled them in once and for all, but obviously that is not enough to get a perfect readout, since there are quite a few exceptions or special cases when you get into advanced texts containing a large number of loan words and constructions from Sanskrit/Pali and English.

[Oneman]

I know them by heart and never need to reference them since I drilled them in once and for all

I'll second that from Khun Meadish.

Drilling the rules in deep, once and for all, has worked well for me, too.

It wasn't easy -- took about a year of frequent practice, with the help of my teacher -- but certainly has been worth the effort.

Now, when I see a new word, I get the tones right 99% of the time, and almost without thinking.

Amazes Thais who know the tones, but often don't know the tone rules.

Bottom line: Anyone who wants to get beyond school-room conversation in Thai language, will need to be fluent in the tone rules.

- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

[Johpa]

Bottom line: Anyone who wants to get beyond school-room conversation in Thai language, will need to be fluent in the tone rules.

And I would argue that anyone fluent in Thai will have long forgotten the tone rules. And good luck finding a single Thai who can explain a single tone rule. I am far from fluent in Thai, and fading slowly in competency, but I too have long forgotten the tone rules. But one is well served by studying them in the beginning of the long and winding road toward that competency.

[Oneman]

And good luck finding a single Thai who can explain a single tone rule.

Then I am pleased to offer lots of "good luck" to anyone wanting to learn the tone rules:

Teachers at various Thai language schools I've attended have clearly explained the rules in class.

Plus they patiently demonstrate so foreign students can listen to the tone differences.

The best place to learn the tone rules is from a trained, Thai language, teacher.

(There are many posts elsewhere on this forum about good language schools in different areas.)

In addition, there is a lot on the web explaining all the tone rules.

Here are a few pages from just one web site:

Tone Rules

Thai Language Tone Calculator

How to determine the tone of a syllable

Yes, drilling the tones rules deep into memory takes a lot of time and patience, but there is no other way to learn to speak the language correctly (other than being born and raised here).

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

[DavidHouston]

Please, if I might, I would like to add a bit of alternative, or complementary, thinking to this issue. I believe that structured practice is as important in learning tones and correctly speaking Thai words as is memorizing the tone rules.

Let me recommend a book, one which is part of a series of books called "หัดอ่านภาษาไทยแบบใหม่" ("Practice Reading Thai, the New Method") by ไสว สุนทร. I have attached pictures of the cover and of several pages.

The method embodied in this book, and others like it, is to learn pronunciation of Thai words, and their embedded tones, by practicing a discrete set of related and integrated words or phrases in lessons which illustrate and drill specific pronunciation and tone rules. That is, the student does not learn the rules, but rather he internalizes the use of the rules through practice.

I know that there are many who insist that learning the rules is a prerequisite to learning; I would say that a combined approach of structured practice followed by rule learning can speed up the process of reading correctly. Ultimately, the goal is for the student to see a word written then pronounce the word directly and correctly, without a resort to thinking through the applicable rules.

One caveat: at least initially, it is important to have a Thai teacher to drill these lessons with the student. However, once the lessons are learned, the student can practice by him or herself.

Edited September 27, 2008 by DavidHouston

[desi]

Please, if I might, I would like to add a bit of alternative, or complementary, thinking to this issue. I believe that structured practice is as important in learning tones and correctly speaking Thai words as is memorizing the tone rules.

Let me recommend a book, one which is part of a series of books called "หัดอ่านภาษาไทยแบบใหม่" ("Practice Reading Thai, the New Method") by ไสว สุนทร. I have attached pictures of the cover and of several pages.

David, where can these books be purchased over the counter? Chula book store in BKK?

[DavidHouston]

Please, if I might, I would like to add a bit of alternative, or complementary, thinking to this issue. I believe that structured practice is as important in learning tones and correctly speaking Thai words as is memorizing the tone rules.

Let me recommend a book, one which is part of a series of books called "หัดอ่านภาษาไทยแบบใหม่" ("Practice Reading Thai, the New Method") by ไสว สุนทร. I have attached pictures of the cover and of several pages.

David, where can these books be purchased over the counter? Chula book store in BKK?

Desi,

I bought mine locally at the Seng Ho bookstore in Phuket. But, if they have the books here in the boondocks of the South, they must certainly be sold in Bangkok. I Googled "ภาษาไทยแบบใหม่" and got:

http://www.chulabook.com/cgi-bin/main/2007...e=9789749039335 at Chulabooks and I see that there are now seven volumes in the series.

The books might also be sold at ร้านศึกษาภัณฑ์พาณิชย์ Suksaphan Phanit (http://www.suksapan.or.th/) located at the Democracy Monument in Bangkok.

Good luck. If you find where they are sold in Bangkok, please let all of us know. Thanks.

[desi]

Thanks David. I also googled and found them at Chulabook store online, but I don't have good luck ordering from Thai sites online.

I'll see about track them down this week (Chula isn't far), then post back here if I have any luck.

Again, thanks for posting these (they look great).

[desi]

Good luck. If you find where they are sold in Bangkok, please let all of us know. Thanks.

Chula Uni Book store in BKK, right next to British Council (Siam).

They have 5 books in stock - numbers 1, 4,5,6,7

Prices range between 50 - 110 baht.

Edited September 28, 2008 by desi