What Is It With Thais

[Jeddah Jo]

When I try and learn and speak Thai, I try and get their consonants right, I try and pronounce their weird vowels correctly and I even try and get the tones right to the best of my ability.

However, when Thais pronounce English words with an aspirated ending they just give up and do not even bother to try.

Why is that? Why is it so hard for them? Is it because it sounds really ugly to them or what?

When I am bored, I sometimes try and teach Thais to say 'Excuse Me'. Even after 50 attempts it still comes out as 'Eck-Queue me'.

One girl told me, I will try but if I use them in front of friends they may feel like I am being 'แก่แดด' (possibly pretentious?).

Just curious really, why they seemingly make no attempt to speak what they hear native English speakers say.

JJ.

[Radius]

Having studied the Thai Culture only briefly I still can take an educated guess:

It's about faceloss. "If I cannot speak the language good then I cannot be blamed for making mistakes"

I have cought myself doing the same when talking English (I am not Thai). I can do it quite good, but as soon as I really have to talk English to someone I get a terrible accent.

After a while I get over that and am able to talk 'normal' English, but I suspect it is more difficult for Thai to do the same.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Radius

[MTLae]

When I try and learn and speak Thai, I try and get their consonants right, I try and pronounce their weird vowels correctly and I even try and get the tones right to the best of my ability.

However, when Thais pronounce English words with an aspirated ending they just give up and do not even bother to try.

Why is that? Why is it so hard for them? Is it because it sounds really ugly to them or what?

When I am bored, I sometimes try and teach Thais to say 'Excuse Me'. Even after 50 attempts it still comes out as 'Eck-Queue me'.

One girl told me, I will try but if I use them in front of friends they may feel like I am being 'แก่แดด' (possibly pretentious?).

Just curious really, why they seemingly make no attempt to speak what they hear native English speakers say.

JJ.

Dear Jeddah Jo,

I am Kroo Ae from My Thai Language School, hope you recognize me from different threads in here. It's very nice of you trying to pronounce Thai consonants in the correct way. As we know Thai language is not easy at all.

And for Thai people to pronounce English, also it's difficult for us to pronounce the right way due to the tone of speaking and aspiration are different. It will be more easier to learn since they are young so they can adapt and pronounce in the correct way.

And you have to understand our Thai culture that people are very modest and humble, they are shy and lack of confident to speak in front of public as they are afraid they might pronounce wrong and people might laugh at them.

This is one thing that we want to speak like a native speaker but it's not alway the right accent because the different in aspiration in language.

But for people who like to be able to speak English or Thai, don't give up. I believe that the more you try, the more you will be successful.

Nice Day,

Kroo Ae from My Thai Language School

[mynextgig]

Obviously the OP has a very strong command of the Thai language and the can pronounce all of those difficult sounds correctly in the Thai Alphabet which is why he/she is so frustrated that Thais cant speak the OP's language perfectly....

The ability to manage the new sounds associated with foreign languages diminishes as you get older. I have heard that if you have not learned to make certain sounds by your early teens it becomes extremely difficult to master them at a later date.

For anyone that has ever tried to learn any of the chinese dialects and is from a western background will know that some of the sounds are vitually impossible to repeat correctly.

Even amongst the latin based languages it is often very difficult to mimic some of the sounds, spanish is a prime example !

[Jeddah Jo]

Obviously the OP has a very strong command of the Thai language and the can pronounce all of those difficult sounds correctly in the Thai Alphabet which is why he/she is so frustrated that Thais cant speak the OP's language perfectly....

The ability to manage the new sounds associated with foreign languages diminishes as you get older. I have heard that if you have not learned to make certain sounds by your early teens it becomes extremely difficult to master them at a later date.

For anyone that has ever tried to learn any of the chinese dialects and is from a western background will know that some of the sounds are vitually impossible to repeat correctly.

Even amongst the latin based languages it is often very difficult to mimic some of the sounds, spanish is a prime example !

Not strong at all! But I do try

I know Thai does not have aspirated word endings. But they certainly have aspirated word beginnings.

เสือ seua tiger

ส้ม som orange

ทหาร tahaan soldier

So they are perfectly capable of vocalising (or aspirating ) the sounds!

I have also learned some Dutch and Arabic in my time (both featuring consonants and vowels not heard in English), and in both cases I would at least try to repeat the unfamiliar sounds to try and make myself understood.

JJ.

[mynextgig]

Obviously the OP has a very strong command of the Thai language and the can pronounce all of those difficult sounds correctly in the Thai Alphabet which is why he/she is so frustrated that Thais cant speak the OP's language perfectly....

The ability to manage the new sounds associated with foreign languages diminishes as you get older. I have heard that if you have not learned to make certain sounds by your early teens it becomes extremely difficult to master them at a later date.

For anyone that has ever tried to learn any of the chinese dialects and is from a western background will know that some of the sounds are vitually impossible to repeat correctly.

Even amongst the latin based languages it is often very difficult to mimic some of the sounds, spanish is a prime example !

Not strong at all! But I do try

I know Thai does not have aspirated word endings. But they certainly have aspirated word beginnings.

เสือ seua tiger

ส้ม som orange

ทหาร tahaan soldier

So they are perfectly capable of vocalising (or aspirating ) the sounds!

I have also learned some Dutch and Arabic in my time (both featuring consonants and vowels not heard in English), and in both cases I would at least try to repeat the unfamiliar sounds to try and make myself understood.

JJ.

I dont think it is necessily the aspirated sounds that Thai people have the problem with, its more related to moving from one consonant to another.

Your example of 'Excuse me' causes difficulty because there is no sound for 'X' in thai. Thai's will struggle to move from the 'Ex' to the 'cuse' part of the word.

Literally the word sounds like 'XSkews' and its the link bewteen the syllables that causes the difficulty with many english words.

Look at how many english words that when written in Thai, change the way the word sounds. Here is an example - im not sure where you are from, but i personally say the word Macau (island off Hong Kong) in a single breath without pause. Translated to Thai this word almost sounds like 2 different words due to the pause that is created between the 'Mac' and the 'cow' sound.

Edited September 26, 2008 by mynextgig

[mangkorn]

Just curious really, why they seemingly make no attempt to speak what they hear native English speakers say.

Why should they?

Why don't you speak Spanish properly? Why do you make no attempt?

They live in their country, with their language, and contrary to popular belief among many farangs, Thai people are not here to satisfy you.

When they go to live in another country, like England, they learn to speak English perfectly well, because that is the dominant language of the country.

In Thailand, it's Thai. There is no reason why they should try to speak English like native English speakers.

Edited September 27, 2008 by mangkorn

[Slip]

<snip>

I know Thai does not have aspirated word endings. But they certainly have aspirated word beginnings.

เสือ seua tiger

ส้ม som orange

ทหาร tahaan soldier

So they are perfectly capable of vocalising (or aspirating ) the sounds!

JJ.

This puts me in mind of when i started to learn Thai. I had real trouble with 'ง' at the beginning of words although the sound is very common in English at the end of words. So IMO the different location can make a definite difference.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thai has its pronunciation rules just like English. When a foreign word deviates from those rules, it is difficult for them to pronounce. It's that simple, and Slip's point is a good illustration of the exact same problem turned around.

Why is that? Why is it so hard for them? Is it because it sounds really ugly to them or what?

Apart from the sheer difficulty which is not to be underestimated, I think 'conceited' is more appropriate than 'ugly'.

In the workplace, many Thais use English terminology. When somebody pronounces, or tries to pronounce, these words according to English instead of Thai pronunciation rules, they will be mocked by other Thais.

I am guessing if you could pronounce 'laissez-faire', 'rendez-vous', 'realpolitik', 'schutzpah', 'chardonnay'. 'jihad', 'zenith' as well as other loan-words in English truly properly according to the rules of the language of origin and did so consequently, it might spark a similar reaction in other English speakers as well.

[Rikker]

The real answer, then, is probably as simple as that they don't have any real need for it, or don't perceive one, anyhow.

[Jeddah Jo]

Apart from the sheer difficulty which is not to be underestimated, I think 'conceited' is more appropriate than 'ugly'.

In the workplace, many Thais use English terminology. When somebody pronounces, or tries to pronounce, these words according to English instead of Thai pronunciation rules, they will be mocked by other Thais.

OK that was kind of the point I was trying to get across. I was pretty surprised when a girl told me that if she spoke English properly, her friends would think she was being pretentious.

But then I suppose if I hear a Brit putting on an exaggerated French accent, or even Farangs speaking Thai at max. volume and grunting out อ๋อ อ๋อ all the time, it is not really so easy on the ear is it?

Actually now I think about it the French who only live 22 miles away from UK do a pretty good job of mangling English too

Thanks for feedback anyway.

JJ.

[Johpa]

When I try and learn and speak Thai, I try and get their consonants right, I try and pronounce their weird vowels correctly and I even try and get the tones right to the best of my ability.

However, when Thais pronounce English words with an aspirated ending they just give up and do not even bother to try.

Why is that? Why is it so hard for them? Is it because it sounds really ugly to them or what?

Well golly, how many Farangs, who actually speak fairly decent Thai, seem to have given up long ago on trying to pronounce an unaspirated syllable initial unvoiced stops such as ก, ต, or ป correctly??? Is it so hard for them? Is it really because it sounds ugly to them?

Of course not. The simple fact is that these sounds do not exist in their native language and thus, due to the still mysterious workings of the brain, we don't always hear sounds that are not allowed phonetically in our native language (input) and we have similar issues with reproducing those sounds as speech (output). It takes a lot of effort and training to overcome the brain's built-in programming (OK, a little loose with the metaphor here).

Crikey, our brains don't even acknowledge sounds that do exist in our native language but convey no meaning, sounds that are not phonemic. For example, English does allow those same unvoiced stop consonants after a syllable initial /s/ (sibilant) consonant (skit, stop, spot) but native English speakers still do not "hear" the phonetic difference. A slightly different situation exists for ง, a sound which exists in syllable final position in English, but a sound which many competent English speakers of Thai simply can not produce correctly at the beginning of a word.

So pick up any introductory linguistics textbook to become a wee bit more educated on the subject so that you don't make such naive comments about "weird vowels" or "ugly" sounds.