Stash The Cash

[R123]

Well I have followed this discussion, and agree and second what zodiac says about naam.

He is becoming a pain in the.... a*s*!

[Naam]

I think some things were lost in translation here because there are no obvious contradictions on my part: to imply that a person is not worried about their cash implies irresponsibility, laziness and other undesirable traits hence my rebuttal was to those aspects.

i am sorry Chiang Mai that my "acceptance" of your procedure was not interpreted as it was meant. please believe me that i never intended to imply what you mentioned above.

[Naam]

Well I have followed this discussion, and agree and second what zodiac says about naam. He is becoming a pain in the.... a*s*!

you talked to my wife?

[Naam]

my belly is my technical support

You know that's where the entrails are kept, right Dr. ?

touché LRB

[Naam]

Do we have to be continually bored to death with Naam and his conceit and telling us about his tedious existence and what an expert he considers himself to be in financial matters? He mentions voodoo, but what a witch-doctor is to medicine, he is to money matters.

so you are the hacker who looked into my portfolio?

[Naam]

Do we have to be continually bored to death with Naam

This is the person who said in post number 12 re the Irish Government guaranteeing the Anglo Irish Bank IOM:

"unfortunately that guarantee is valid only for domestic but NOT for offshore banks".

That assertion was and is totally false and erroneous and he knows it, but has he not the courage to admit he was wrong.

Now it appears he has changed his tune but is all over the place giving all sorts of boastful and staggeringly bland bits of information.

Can't he get a life instead of giving us up to maybe 10 or more (often useless) postings daily for years?

myassertion is totally correct and Anglo Irish Isle of Man confirms it in their website stating clearly "parent guarantees". i have also mentioned in another posting that the government guarantee to Anglo Irish, Ireland reduces my objections keeping nowadays a lot of cash in any bank, especially when lured by above average interest rates.

you have to do your homework my friend and try to apply a wee bit of logical thinking as i swallow unqualified posters like you on an empty stomach without burping

[taxexile]

Warning to savers opening Irish accounts

Savers tempted to take up the Irish government’s offer to provide unlimited 100 per cent deposit protection, including sterling accounts based in Britain, should beware of “potential risks”, a building society chief claims.

By Ian Cowie

Last Updated: 4:41PM BST 02 Oct 2008

Could the Irish government raise enough sterling to meet its guarantee to British savers? Pictured, Halfpenny Bridge in Dublin Photo: Irish Tourist Board Adrian Coles, the director general of the Building Societies Association (BSA), said: “Before any British saver switches accounts because of the new guarantee, they should write to the Irish Embassy to seek answers to some important questions.

“First, has the Irish government quanitified the potentially huge liabilities it is taking on by guaranteeing sterling deposits in Britain, where household cash savings amount to £1.1 trillion?

“Second, where will the Irish government obtain sufficient sterling to meet its liabilities if a bank fails? It cannot do so by printing more £1 notes or by raising taxes in the United Kingdom – both are the prerogatives of the British Government.

“Savers should beware that, if they switch accounts to take up this guarantee, they are effectively betting on the Irish government’s ability to buy sufficient sterling in the foreign exchange markets. It is not at all clear to me that they have quantified the potential risks they are taking on here.”

During global economic setbacks in the early 1990s, several Latin American governments became unable to repay debts that were denominated in dollars. Morningstar, the analyst, rates the Irish government's credit as AAA – or very low risk – but the financial crisis of the past year has demonstrated that credit ratings are not infallible.

Less than 1 per cent of British savers’ deposits are currently held in foreign banks but the Irish government’s unlimited guarantee is already proving popular with savers rattled by the failure of Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley. Queues have formed outside some Post Offices, which, as telegraph.co.uk revealed on Tuesday, offer accounts administered by Bank of Ireland.

These accounts - and others offered by mainland branches of Anglo Irish Bank - confer unlimited guaranteed protection, backed by the Irish government, while the British Government’s guarantee remains 100 per cent up to £35,000 per person of losses (or £70,000 per couple), although the Government said this will rise to £50,000 per person at some point in the future.

Mr Coles said: “What the Irish government offers to Irish savers is entirely up to them but their offer is potentially destabilising to savings flows in the United Kingdom and savers ought to beware of the risk that the Irish government may not be able to pay.

“At the very least, the British Government ought to be asking some searching questions of the Irish government about its ability to honour this guarantee.”

the daily telegraph uk

[cmsally]

This article on BBC

BBC

Seems to be a lot of speculation on the stability of the Irish economy and if they can meet these guarantees.

[Naam]

Warning to savers opening Irish accounts

article is in my [not so] humble opinion exaggerated. i don't deny that risks exist, i drew attention to them earlier. described is the worst case scenario.

[chiang mai]

I think some things were lost in translation here because there are no obvious contradictions on my part: to imply that a person is not worried about their cash implies irresponsibility, laziness and other undesirable traits hence my rebuttal was to those aspects.

i am sorry Chiang Mai that my "acceptance" of your procedure was not interpreted as it was meant. please believe me that i never intended to imply what you mentioned above.

not a problem sir.

[chiang mai]

And in case anyone has missed it, the UK government has now agreed to increase the amount insured under the UK plan to £50K, effective Monday.

[beginner]

jersey offshore accounts have no protection , but the parent onshore banks usually offer protection to their offshore company based on the 35000 uk protection , i wouldnt like to have to rely on that should any of these banks go under , which is doubtful ....... but these are uncertain times and anything could happen.

I just received this from Offshore HSBC in Jersey which confirms what you say.

Is it realistic to think that if HSBC fails and defaults then the world economy would have collapsed. In other words money would have no real value anyway.

It is food for thought though. If there is a run of transfersof savings accounts to guaranteed deposits could even the mighty HSBC be shaken?

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

We regret that there is no compensation scheme for your funds.

HSBC is one of the World’s largest banks, serving over 100 million customers in 85 countries and territories.

The Group’s financial strength is built on maintaining a solid capital base, ensuring strong liquidity (including holding over USD1,000 billion customer deposits worldwide), a conservative appetite for risk and well diversified earnings both by geography and business type.

This primary focus on maintaining financial strength throughout our long history means that we are well-placed to navigate periods of economic and market instability.

Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours Sincerely

Customer Service Team

International Direct Banking

HSBC Bank International Limited

HSBC House

St Helier

Jersey

JE1 1HS

Channel Islands

[Naam]

It is food for thought though. If there is a run of transfersof savings accounts to guaranteed deposits could even the mighty HSBC be shaken?[/size]

to the best of my knowledge no bank on this planet exists which can sustain a real run even if only 50% of its depositors demand their money. and i'm not talking about "shaken" i am talking about "knockout".

[stevemcqueen]

Simple question....

Anglo Irish Bank...Yes or No ?

[Naam]

Simple question.... Anglo Irish Bank...Yes or No ?

up to you.

[Naam]

HSBC is one of the World’s largest banks, serving over 100 million customers in 85 countries and territories.

The Group’s financial strength is built on maintaining a solid capital base, ensuring strong liquidity (including holding over USD1,000 billion customer deposits worldwide), a conservative appetite for risk and well diversified earnings both by geography and business type.

let's do a little math. HSBC is compared to other banks well capitalised. capitalisation as of dec 31, 2007 was ~ $ 185 billion. it is fair to assume that the liquid part of this capitalisation is (at best!) 20%, i.e. $ 37 billion.

what if only 10% of HSBC's clients decide to take out their money ($ 100 billion) because they want to keep it under the mattress?

[chiang mai]

I think there's a lot of people out there currently who are afraid and who are trying to make decisions about where to put their money, money that represents their security and their future - many such folks will not be able to make that money back again if it is lost now.

Whilst the discussion about "what if" is useful on a hypothetical basis it doesn't make current investment decisions any easier and if anything it clouds the way forward for many people. I take the view that if HSBC went under then life as we know it would end and the world would become a totally different place. Similarly in the UK, if Nationwide collapsed without bailout the UK would become a radically different place.

Governments around the world have actively demonstrated that they are willing to take the steps necessary to protect depositors cash, we've seen that in a range of countries as banks have been nationalized, taken over and subsidized - we've also seen some countries go to extreme measures to provide/increase deposit insurance.

If it helps anyone at all my funds are mostly all tied up in one or two year fixed rate schemes thus I am unable to move much of it even if I wanted to. My investments are with main stream banks/building societies and not foreign banks - I also find myself having a six figure sum with Nationwide that I could move if I wanted to, but I don't want to. I think that on the basis of what is reasonable to believe, my money is safe and that there is probably a greater risk by doing a knee jerk transfer to somewhere new that doesn't perhaps meet all my criteria.

So when someone asks, Allied Irish, yes or no, I say why not. I would open an account with them for a sum I felt comfortable with, in fact I've sent them the paperwork already but I reckon a surge in new business means I may have missed my opportunity.

The problems facing the market are serious but they are not made any easier by the media and extreme "what if" discussions. If we're not careful we may find that the fear of what could happen is much greater than the reality of what sensibly will happen.

[philstone]

Governments around the world have actively demonstrated that they are willing to take the steps necessary to protect depositors cash, we've seen that in a range of countries as banks have been nationalized, taken over and subsidized - we've also seen some countries go to extreme measures to provide/increase deposit insurance.

The Royal Bank of Nigeria will always have enough to pay the savers as they get their money from swindling foreigns. I get 20 per cent a year guarantee by the Nigeria Government what more is their to say. Check with Ali Ben Ali.

Thailand will have no trouble as the Farangs will just have to send money to the family . And remember many on this board have be taken care of by rich Thai families is money food and most of all value land in Isan to build they huge house now they will just pay them back

Edited October 4, 2008 by philstone

[Naam]

I think there's a lot of people out there currently who are afraid and who are trying to make decisions about where to put their money, money that represents their security and their future - many such folks will not be able to make that money back again if it is lost now.

true!

[Naam]

Whilst the discussion about "what if" is useful on a hypothetical basis it doesn't make current investment decisions any easier and if anything it clouds the way forward for many people. I take the view that if HSBC went under then life as we know it would end and the world would become a totally different place. Similarly in the UK, if Nationwide collapsed without bailout the UK would become a radically different place.

true. i would probably live of the proceeds of 116 acres agricultural land my wife owns in another country, ask my wife once in a while to sell some additional tomatoes and garlic and allocate some pocket money for me (considerably less than she does now).

[Naam]

Governments around the world have actively demonstrated that they are willing to take the steps necessary to protect depositors cash, we've seen that in a range of countries as banks have been nationalized, taken over and subsidized - we've also seen some countries go to extreme measures to provide/increase deposit insurance.

at present stage (very few) governments have announced only that they are willing to take steps. some (very few) governments have have nationalised (very few) banks or subsidised (very few) banks. this is a positive sign but no proof that it will work.

[Naam]

The problems facing the market are serious but they are not made any easier by the media and extreme "what if" discussions. If we're not careful we may find that the fear of what could happen is much greater than the reality of what sensibly will happen.

"what if" discussions are not only for the faint-hearted but for the bold too. "what if" and considering the "what if worst case scenario" is a sound basis for making decisions in a risky environment where investors row in unheard of uncharted waters.

[beginner]

So when someone asks, Allied Irish, yes or no, I say why not. I would open an account with them for a sum I felt comfortable with, in fact I've sent them the paperwork already but I reckon a surge in new business means I may have missed my opportunity.

The problems facing the market are serious but they are not made any easier by the media and extreme "what if" discussions. If we're not careful we may find that the fear of what could happen is much greater than the reality of what sensibly will happen.

I think the question stevemcqueen asked is ANGLO IRISH, yes or no.

Allied Irish is a rather different bank altogether. see my post 57.

[chiang mai]

So when someone asks, Allied Irish, yes or no, I say why not. I would open an account with them for a sum I felt comfortable with, in fact I've sent them the paperwork already but I reckon a surge in new business means I may have missed my opportunity.

The problems facing the market are serious but they are not made any easier by the media and extreme "what if" discussions. If we're not careful we may find that the fear of what could happen is much greater than the reality of what sensibly will happen.

I think the question stevemcqueen asked is ANGLO IRISH, yes or no.

Allied Irish is a rather different bank altogether. see my post 57.

Yes, apologies, I was getting carried away with it all! But I think the same principles still apply.

[lannarebirth]

FWIW:

[lannarebirth]

As a very savvy American politician (Tip O'Neill) once said, "All Politics Is Local". The problem with the EU, and therefore the Euro is, I foresee any number of member states opting to write checks that the governing body either cannot or is not willing to cash. That, combined with limited choices in energy at a time of Russian ascendency is worrying. BWDIK?

[LaoPo]

FWIW:

In forum support, George mentioned there is a software bug which causes problems with links....I suppose we have to wait before we can open them.

LaoPo

[beginner]

FWIW:

In forum support, George mentioned there is a software bug which causes problems with links....I suppose we have to wait before we can open them.

LaoPo

IMHO.This video is worth copying and pasting into your browser.

Included in the discussion is the statement that 'if...the Irish government is allowed to do this guarantee and it stands..then the euro will collapse within five years'.

It seems that the potential total value of the guarantee may exceed the Irish GDP by a factor of two!

The guarantee is of course only as good as the Government giving it. Ireland ranks at 17 on the Corruption Perceptions Index FWIW, worse than most other European states. This is probably a function of its small size where everyone knows everyone else and its particular history of internal strife and Church politics.

I have personal experience of dealing with the Irish bureaucracy to receive a legacy from a distant relative. The obstacles put in my way nearly made me give up and let them keep it. I persevered out of sheer anger at their intrusive unwarranted questions and bloody mindedness. It took over a year to obtain what was clearly mine from day one.

Throughout the procedure I was dealing with an office that took the line 'we can not proceed unless you give us the information we require'. In essence, they wanted me to prove that the money had been legitimately earned and tax paid on it.

If that authoritarian mindset is applied to the terms of the savings deposit guarantee, whatever they may turn out to be, then it might not be as good as people hope.

A possible good outcome is that other Governments feel the need to match it. Unfortunately, there are no free lunches. we will probably all pay with a massive surge of inflation. Two or three years at 15-20% and the real value of cash is greatly reduced.

It beats worrying about global warming or nuclear war.

Edited October 4, 2008 by beginner

[chiang mai]

Governments around the world have actively demonstrated that they are willing to take the steps necessary to protect depositors cash, we've seen that in a range of countries as banks have been nationalized, taken over and subsidized - we've also seen some countries go to extreme measures to provide/increase deposit insurance.

at present stage (very few) governments have announced only that they are willing to take steps. some (very few) governments have have nationalised (very few) banks or subsidised (very few) banks. this is a positive sign but no proof that it will work.

I'm not sure whether we care if it works or not as long as we're comprehensively insured and we get our cash back.

[Naam]

Governments around the world have actively demonstrated that they are willing to take the steps necessary to protect depositors cash, we've seen that in a range of countries as banks have been nationalized, taken over and subsidized - we've also seen some countries go to extreme measures to provide/increase deposit insurance.

at present stage (very few) governments have announced only that they are willing to take steps. some (very few) governments have have nationalised (very few) banks or subsidised (very few) banks. this is a positive sign but no proof that it will work.

I'm not sure whether we care if it works or not as long as we're comprehensively insured and we get our cash back.

i can only agree. times have changed. years ago i was not at all interested to get my cash/investment back and break my head what to do with it. basically my priority was "keep the cash but give me regularly a fair yield on it". things are also viewed differently depending on individual perspectives and on the age of the investor. if you are age 40-45 and a sought after professional the present emvironment might not look as gloomy as seen by a retiree age 65.