Manners

[Ulysses G.]

I have brought this up before, but it keeps happening and I still don't understand why.

I was on the elliptical machine at the health club today watching the Discovery channel and as I was enjoying it, I decided to keep the remote with me. I have noticed that our Thai hosts seem to think that whoever has the remote can change channels at will. There were about 5 people watching Discovery while running or biking besides me, including a couple of Thais.

A big Thai guy in his early twenties (think of the bad guy in Blood Sport who breaks Van Damme's brother's back) came in and got on a running machine directly in front of the TV. Eventually he reached over and changed the channel without even looking at anyone else. I said, "Excuse me, but we were watching that", but he just sneered and grunted, "I watch this".

I took out the remote and switched it back to Discovery and waited to get my butt kicked.

To make a long story short, he just ignored me and I ignored him until my time on the elliptical was up and then I went to another room with weights and then went swimming.

Most Thais are as polite about this as they are in general, but lots of them will switch a TV channel when a bunch of people are watching it and not ask for permission.

Any one have any theories why?

Edited October 4, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[TEFLMike]

I do believe it is a Universal problem, not just Thais'. It can happen almost anywhere i.e: a bar, a pub, just about anywhere.

[eastbaybob]

This also happened once in the United States. I have no theories why, but thank you for posting.

[ashacat]

Exactly the same thing used to happen to me regularly at the gym in my last condo. Very rude.

[whatsoever]

Bad manners - or lack of - are worldwide and classless. I have often observed people (predominantly men) who seem to be unable to use a knife and fork (not to mention Indians who think it is ordained to eat soup with their hands).

I also find it somewhat disgusting to observe people scooping the froth from the bottom of thier coffee cups with a spoon You know who you are!

[geriatrickid]

The mystery of the Door.

It was discussed on another thread a year ago, but I am still puzzled by the Thai inability to hold a door for someone. Even the most loutish of farangs do it or manage a smile or a thanks when someone does it for them.

The salad bar gross out.

Had dinner at a higher end seafood place in Patong and mosey up to get my greens. Lo and behold there is a plump little farang man in the requisite wife beater (singlet for you classy folks) that sticks his pudgy finger into the salad dressing to have a taste. Jeez, who does that? I had my veggies naked that night.

The Golden Rule.

Walking past the shops at the Sheraton Orchid in Bangers a couple years ago, I came upon wads of cash lying on the floor, lots of 20 & 100 baht notes. There I was along with a scruffy Australian kid in his requisite beach garb and flip flops (I think Australians come out of the womb wearing flip flops) and a well dressed portly middle aged Thai male. The kid and I start scooping up the money and the Thai guy is in a frenzy grabbing for baht. The kid, says to me to get the money, he thinks he knows who dropped it and runs after the person. I literally got into a tug of war with the the other guy. Kid comes back with the Thai lady and I hand over the cash I collected. Thai male takes off. Thai lady thanks us. The scruffy kid gave me a lesson in class & manners.

[Heng]

Some of my favorites...

1. the 'holding the door fake out' : I pretend like I'm going to hold the door for you but let it fly back in your face right before you grab it. Works really well with older folks or those in wheelchairs.

2. the 'holding the door *after you* blitz' move : I actually let you through the door before me, but then use the door in a sweeping pincer move, gently hurrying you along while the door bites at your heels.

3. slowing down to give applause for traffic accidents : "Good job, buddy!" (for foreigners, who hopefully aren't of the type that only understand Russian or Swedish... less effective) or "Geng mak maak, klrab!" for locals. If possible, I also like to chuck a 32 oz. fountain drink into the scene for effect.

4. snickering/laughing like I'm at Seinfeld or Note-Udom live at those whose credit cards get rejected at the supermarket, club, restaurant or wherever... : and then explaining to all around "see, that's yet another reason why cash is king."

[desertrat]

Jean Paul Sartre "hel_l is Other People"

[jackr]

Some of my favorites...

1. the 'holding the door fake out' : I pretend like I'm going to hold the door for you but let it fly back in your face right before you grab it. Works really well with older folks or those in wheelchairs.

2. the 'holding the door *after you* blitz' move : I actually let you through the door before me, but then use the door in a sweeping pincer move, gently hurrying you along while the door bites at your heels.

3. slowing down to give applause for traffic accidents : "Good job, buddy!" (for foreigners, who hopefully aren't of the type that only understand Russian or Swedish... less effective) or "Geng mak maak, klrab!" for locals. If possible, I also like to chuck a 32 oz. fountain drink into the scene for effect.

4. snickering/laughing like I'm at Seinfeld or Note-Udom live at those whose credit cards get rejected at the supermarket, club, restaurant or wherever... : and then explaining to all around "see, that's yet another reason why cash is king."

[Heng]

[mizzi39]

Standing in a queue and having people cut in front of you. This seems to happen more here than in the west because in the west someone will usually yell out "back of the line", to the inconsiderate A__hole, but here it happens often.

A Thai friend told me that many Thais do not understand "queue etiquette". I'm thinking "What's there to understand"?

Edited October 5, 2008 by mizzi39

[Heng]

When I run into that, a simple "it's called a queue," (in Thai) usually suffices. If not, you get the 32 oz. fountain drink treatment.

[Enjibenji]

Didn't want to make a new topic but I want to know the answer to this.

This happens every day, not just once, sometimes many times. When I'm talking to my girlfriend (thai), someone will just butt in, talk to my girlfriend and change the subject completely.

Example, me and my girlfriend are talking about a film together, friend is talking to her friend, then the friend will turn to my girlfriend, interrupt our conversation and ask 'is the club open tonight?', while me and my girlfriend were talking.

That is just an example, but that is what has been happening a lot. It could be me and my girlfriend talking and then a friend just interrupts all of a sudden, or it could be just a normal person (such as in a shop).

This happens frequently, so I want to know, is it normal for Thai people to do this? Cause back in UK, you'd get told to shut up and wait for our conversation to finish by some people, or probably you wouldn't even interrupt if you had a decent pair of manners, you would wait until the me and my girlfriend stopped talking.

just wanna know

[Heng]

Sounds like a case of either a ) the person butting in doesn't know your place in the social hierarchy or b ) feels they are above you in the hierarchy and hence cut in at will. It's not a blanket generalization for 'normal' Thai people to do this, as you'll likely note if you pay attention that most (not all of course) Thais won't interrupt or even answer in place of (finish sentences for, etc.) those who they feel are higher up or more important than they are.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Heng

[mrt273nva]

Standing in a queue and having people cut in front of you. This seems to happen more here than in the west because in the west someone will usually yell out "back of the line", to the inconsiderate A__hole, but here it happens often.

A Thai friend told me that many Thais do not understand "queue etiquette". I'm thinking "What's there to understand"?

i don't mind this because i will shove the queue jumper out of the way in order to get past them. if they jumped the queue several spots in front of me then this signifies that the queue has been compromised and is now up for grabs to the more aggressive people. it becomes a mad dash to the cashier. if you have ever traveled in China then you will recognize the every man for himself style queues. i haven't seen it as bad in Thailand as i have seen in Beijing and Shanghai. perhaps those cities prepared me for Thailand and now it is no sweat when one person is doing it. it becomes more hectic when there are 20+ people shoving their way to the front.

[Enjibenji]

Sounds like a case of either a ) the person butting in doesn't know your place in the social hierarchy or b ) feels they are above you in the hierarchy and hence cut in at will. It's not a blanket generalization for 'normal' Thai people to do this, as you'll likely note if you pay attention that most (not all of course) Thais won't interrupt or even answer in place of (finish sentences for, etc.) those who they feel are higher up or more important than they are.

so, my friends (who are my girlfriend's friends), are interrupting me (who they call their younger brother), and my girlfriend (who is their best friend).

and shop owners etc are just plain fuc_kin rude.

cool, thanks for the reply and help

[jaiyenyen]

Didn't want to make a new topic but I want to know the answer to this.

This happens every day, not just once, sometimes many times. When I'm talking to my girlfriend (thai), someone will just butt in, talk to my girlfriend and change the subject completely.

Example, me and my girlfriend are talking about a film together, friend is talking to her friend, then the friend will turn to my girlfriend, interrupt our conversation and ask 'is the club open tonight?', while me and my girlfriend were talking.

That is just an example, but that is what has been happening a lot. It could be me and my girlfriend talking and then a friend just interrupts all of a sudden, or it could be just a normal person (such as in a shop).

This happens frequently, so I want to know, is it normal for Thai people to do this? Cause back in UK, you'd get told to shut up and wait for our conversation to finish by some people, or probably you wouldn't even interrupt if you had a decent pair of manners, you would wait until the me and my girlfriend stopped talking.

just wanna know

This happens to me and it drives me insane.

My wife has a beauty salon. When I am there, and talking with my wife, members of staff often butt in on our conversation and change the subject. It really pi55e5 me off when it happens and my wife knows how I feel about this behavior. I'm not sure what makes me angrier, them interupting or her not correcting them.

Interesting answer from Heng. Maybe I should tell the staff, who actually paid for the bloody salon, perhaps it will elevate me slightly in the pecking order

Don't get me started on the door opening thing *&^%($%£

[mgjackson69]

Standing in a queue and having people cut in front of you. This seems to happen more here than in the west because in the west someone will usually yell out "back of the line", to the inconsiderate A__hole, but here it happens often.

A Thai friend told me that many Thais do not understand "queue etiquette". I'm thinking "What's there to understand"?

i don't mind this because i will shove the queue jumper out of the way in order to get past them. if they jumped the queue several spots in front of me then this signifies that the queue has been compromised and is now up for grabs to the more aggressive people. it becomes a mad dash to the cashier. if you have ever traveled in China then you will recognize the every man for himself style queues. i haven't seen it as bad in Thailand as i have seen in Beijing and Shanghai. perhaps those cities prepared me for Thailand and now it is no sweat when one person is doing it. it becomes more hectic when there are 20+ people shoving their way to the front.

For example, anywhere in India...

[Heng]

Sounds like a case of either a ) the person butting in doesn't know your place in the social hierarchy or b ) feels they are above you in the hierarchy and hence cut in at will. It's not a blanket generalization for 'normal' Thai people to do this, as you'll likely note if you pay attention that most (not all of course) Thais won't interrupt or even answer in place of (finish sentences for, etc.) those who they feel are higher up or more important than they are.

so, my friends (who are my girlfriend's friends), are interrupting me (who they call their younger brother), and my girlfriend (who is their best friend).

and shop owners etc are just plain fuc_kin rude.

cool, thanks for the reply and help

Ah yes, if you are younger, then you're more likely to be interrupted (think of it how a parent wouldn't think twice about interrupting their child... but apply it to cases where age differences aren't as extreme). It's not black and white, obviously there are plenty of younger folks that people would not interrupt as well, and older folks that people wouldn't think twice about interrupting either.

No worries.

[Heng]

Interesting answer from Heng. Maybe I should tell the staff, who actually paid for the bloody salon, perhaps it will elevate me slightly in the pecking order

Maybe or maybe not. If you weren't one of those pioneering foreigners who decidedly to strike out in the salon industry here, and are one who got into the biz to give a local girlfriend or boyfriend something to do... much of it would depend on how you are pre-framed hierarchy-wise by your significant other.

[jaiyenyen]

Interesting answer from Heng. Maybe I should tell the staff, who actually paid for the bloody salon, perhaps it will elevate me slightly in the pecking order

Maybe or maybe not. If you weren't one of those pioneering foreigners who decidedly to strike out in the salon industry here, and are one who got into the biz to give a local girlfriend or boyfriend something to do... much of it would depend on how you are pre-framed hierarchy-wise by your significant other.

It goes without saying that I am her North, her South, her East, her West, I am her night, her day, I am all things, I am her God

[pattaya_girl]

I saw this guy once order a burger - the burger came, he put Tomato Ketchup on it and then licked all around the top of the bottle and then screwed the top back on - thats what i call extremely bad manners !!!! disgusting.

[TEFLMike]

I saw this guy once order a burger - the burger came, he put Tomato Ketchup on it and then licked all around the top of the bottle and then screwed the top back on - thats what i call extremely bad manners !!!! disgusting.

This leaves any probable germs on his tongue or in his mouth around the bottle/dispenser. Yuk

Edited October 5, 2008 by TEFLMike

[Heng]

Interesting answer from Heng. Maybe I should tell the staff, who actually paid for the bloody salon, perhaps it will elevate me slightly in the pecking order

Maybe or maybe not. If you weren't one of those pioneering foreigners who decidedly to strike out in the salon industry here, and are one who got into the biz to give a local girlfriend or boyfriend something to do... much of it would depend on how you are pre-framed hierarchy-wise by your significant other.

It goes without saying that I am her North, her South, her East, her West, I am her night, her day, I am all things, I am her God

Yeah, I'm sure God had to remind folks who owned the salon back in his younger days too...

[Dustoff]

Interesting answer from Heng. Maybe I should tell the staff, who actually paid for the bloody salon, perhaps it will elevate me slightly in the pecking order

Maybe or maybe not. If you weren't one of those pioneering foreigners who decidedly to strike out in the salon industry here, and are one who got into the biz to give a local girlfriend or boyfriend something to do... much of it would depend on how you are pre-framed hierarchy-wise by your significant other.

It goes without saying that I am her North, her South, her East, her West, I am her night, her day, I am all things, I am her God

And darned well better be!

Not long after my Thai wife and I got together long ago, she picked up on my impatience and began hushing the interrupters so that I could finish what I was saying. I have no idea if it was a brilliant technique on her part to get me to recognize my own illusion of self-importance, but it worked and I slowly learned a valuable lesson in humility.

The term rude, as used in threads like this, seems to imply that Thais have some malice of forethought when they don't take us into consideration but I don't think that is the case the vast majority of time. It has been my observation that the unwashed/uneducated (kidding) masses wander through life with a single thought on their mind at any one time and they simply don't consider multiple issues as they move from point A to point B.

Thai drivers who push past us in seeming "me first" positioning have no thought that there is someone as important as me in my car, they simply see another vehicle.

The Thai worker who is laying a concrete driveway does not have the concept of whether it will actually ever rain again in Thailand, he is just doing the job he was assigned. We however, seem to think that when the water runs downslope into our garage or yard, it is their fault rather than our failing to explain exactly what we expect and overseeing the entire process.

The vast majority of people speak when a thought strikes them, without evaluating the broader situation, not because they are intentionally disrespecting others but because that is the one thought they have at the time.

Another learning experience for me, concerning my own narrow focus, was in Tesco when a youngish Thai woman frantically forced her way in front of me and placed her few items on the belt ahead of mine. I angrily tapped her on the shoulder, waved her back and began moving her 'stuff' behind mine. While doing this, I noticed a rather upset elderly woman at the end of the counter who was clutching a very young and obviously very ill child in her arms and shaking her finger at me. The items I was moving back were also very obviously intended for this child who was in dire distress.

My arrogance and ego took a severe and deserved slam from Grandma that day and I will never forget it.

While a Thailand forum, I have seen little difference in the many countries I have traveled/lived in and suspect that the real problem much of the time is our own deluded concept of our Western exceptionalism and importance...

Edited October 5, 2008 by Dustoff

[britmaveric]

Most people ask if others are watching - least that is the correct etiquette. Same situation when I am on the treadmill with few other people on other machines - new person comes in and flicks the bright lights on in the room. They don't ask, just do it - I'm seriously want to slap the shi*e out of them. It's not dark, but natural light from outside because of all the windows. People are just plain rude and think of themselves too often.

[JetsetBkk]

...will switch a TV channel when a bunch of people are watching it...

Happens all the time in my front room.

[Travel2003]

Some time back, returning to Bangkok, I was waiting in the line in front of the immigration.

Probably only 7-8 people infront of me.

A lot of people are running back and forth between the lines, as they keep count of how many are lined up in front of the various Immigration Officers.

Guess we are all familiar with this.

Then the (arab) guy infront of me leaves the line, dragging his wife with him. He is running over to another line, with his wife hanging after him, just about to take off like a kite. She is not happy, but does as told.

Rest of us steps forward.

Then he sees that there are actually fewer in the line he left. He had now actually cut through 3-4 lines to reach the line he was heading for.

He now turns around, with his wife still hanging on, cutting through the other lines again, before he reaches the line he left.

He squeezes himself infront of me.

Im stunned.

Then I say, Sir!!!

He turns around, and I ask what he is doing.

He replies, "this is my line".

I say, Your line??

It is not your line anymore when you leave it.

He kept insisting it was still his line as he had returned to it.

I started to blow steam and become veeeery loud.

300 pair of eyes watching us.

Big sceene I guess.

Our line keeps moving forward rapidly now, so when he then start to remove himself from the line,

I told him to just stay, but to remember this for the future.

I guess I had bad manners creating this sceene?

Comments on this please.

What would You have done in a case like that?

[Nignoy]

Interesting answer from Heng. Maybe I should tell the staff, who actually paid for the bloody salon, perhaps it will elevate me slightly in the pecking order

Maybe or maybe not. If you weren't one of those pioneering foreigners who decidedly to strike out in the salon industry here, and are one who got into the biz to give a local girlfriend or boyfriend something to do... much of it would depend on how you are pre-framed hierarchy-wise by your significant other.

It goes without saying that I am her North, her South, her East, her West, I am her night, her day, I am all things, I am her God

Its easy being a god in Roiet we built abit of road there in the 60,s ,ginger haired jock with freckles was worshipped bye the villagers, they thought hewas god

[CarlBkk]

Queuejumping is universally bad manners, it's just that some people have little shame and try to get away with it. They get away with it when others do nothing. Here in Thailand I've watched queuejumpers and Thais remain very calm and show very little irritation, sometimes actually seeming to not notice it. However, on two occasions I've had young Thai guys rudely cut in front of me to get tickets at the MRT and BTS. There's no way, even in their country, I can accept such manners to each time I've patted their shoulder, moved in front of them and said "didn't you see that I was next? There's the queue". Both times they look completely shocked.

So yes, I think you did the right thing in the immigration queue...and it's something I've seen happen with Arabs, Chinese and Indonesians at immigration several times. In time they'll realise that people who value manners won't allow them to take the piss, and so won't try it in foreign countries.