Thai Immediacy Mentality

[klikster]

I didn't know what else to call this post. but it has to do with the mentality of some Thais who seem to live only in the moment.

I was walking along a soi in Cha am today and came across a few men working outside a metal shop. They had a small production run going, some steel tube weldments.

The welder was doing the all-too-common .. welding with a pair of mirror sunglasses rather than a proper helmet. After completing my business and walking back to my car, I stopped for a moment. The welder was taking a break and his eyes looked terrible. We was rubbing them and clearly in some pain. I talked to him for a minute in my poor Thai and told him that I once ran a shop that had welders, and know how painful flash burns can be.

I spoke a bit direct .. "You know you should be using a helmet." He nodded,

"If you keep welding this way, pretty soon you won't be able to see [the puddle]."

He nodded again, kind of friendly and knowing, yet at the same time with a look of resignation.

I looked back once to see him striking an arc .. nothing except the sunglasses.

I understand that welding helmets are hot .. I have welded a time or two. I have also suffered some flash burns.

I just wonder if these guys really believe that they will somehow avoid the inevitable. Or if they feel so pressed to risk the health of their eyes. It's really pretty sad.

I wonder if I should go buy a helmet and give it to him.

[Soutpeel]

I didn't know what else to call this post. but it has to do with the mentality of some Thais who seem to live only in the moment.

I was walking along a soi in Cha am today and came across a few men working outside a metal shop. They had a small production run going, some steel tube weldments.

The welder was doing the all-too-common .. welding with a pair of mirror sunglasses rather than a proper helmet. After completing my business and walking back to my car, I stopped for a moment. The welder was taking a break and his eyes looked terrible. We was rubbing them and clearly in some pain. I talked to him for a minute in my poor Thai and told him that I once ran a shop that had welders, and know how painful flash burns can be.

I spoke a bit direct .. "You know you should be using a helmet." He nodded,

"If you keep welding this way, pretty soon you won't be able to see [the puddle]."

He nodded again, kind of friendly and knowing, yet at the same time with a look of resignation.

I looked back once to see him striking an arc .. nothing except the sunglasses.

I understand that welding helmets are hot .. I have welded a time or two. I have also suffered some flash burns.

I just wonder if these guys really believe that they will somehow avoid the inevitable. Or if they feel so pressed to risk the health of their eyes. It's really pretty sad.

I wonder if I should go buy a helmet and give it to him.

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing..... been through very similar things with Thai welders, and it got to the point where we threatened to fire them unless they started wearing the helmet, gloves etc. If you do buy one and give it too him, the minute you turn your back it will be off....

This is very similar to the electricans in Thailand when you try and talk about earthing things, "Thailand no need earth", so obviously power in Thailand is different from everywhere else in the world.

Been working in heavy industry in Thailand for quite a few years and things like this are very frustrating as there seems to be lack of ability to connect an action with a consequence of that particular action.

[klikster]

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing....

That may be, or may not be, true in this case. I didn't get that sort of body language and the guy was pretty friendly. People with really sore eyes may well have a different view of live than a man with fresh young eyes.

[yabaaaa]

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing....

That may be, or may not be, true in this case. I didn't get that sort of body language and the guy was pretty friendly. People with really sore eyes may well have a different view of live than a man with fresh young eyes.

Maybe its a cost issue ie cheap sunglasses 50 baht, welding mask 1000 baht?

[jackr]

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing....

That may be, or may not be, true in this case. I didn't get that sort of body language and the guy was pretty friendly. People with really sore eyes may well have a different view of live than a man with fresh young eyes.

Maybe its a cost issue ie cheap sunglasses 50 baht, welding mask 1000 baht?

Arc eye, nasty!

You can actually pick up a mask for about 100 baht at the likes of Global House. Obviously not the best but if you get the right filter in there, it'd be streets ahead of glasses. Perhaps they don't like to wear them as it makes them look uncool, much like the no helmet on a bike thing

[klikster]

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing....

That may be, or may not be, true in this case. I didn't get that sort of body language and the guy was pretty friendly. People with really sore eyes may well have a different view of live than a man with fresh young eyes.

Maybe its a cost issue ie cheap sunglasses 50 baht, welding mask 1000 baht?

Arc eye, nasty!

You can actually pick up a mask for about 100 baht at the likes of Global House. Obviously not the best but if you get the right filter in there, it'd be streets ahead of glasses. Perhaps they don't like to wear them as it makes them look uncool, much like the no helmet on a bike thing

Well, anyone looking at them while they are welding is also going to pay a price. Maybe the welders just haven't thought of it that way.

[sgunn65]

This is not reserved for the building trade. I approached a sightseeing company to book a private trip for my clients. They quoted me 3,500 for a one day trip, which seemed reasonable. So I asked them to quote me for a one year contract. One trip a week for 52 weeks. I stated that I would pay them monthly and would pay whether we used them or not. I expected the rate to be less than 3,500.

The quote???

5,000 baht per trip!!!!!!!!!

A box of cigars if you can guess what I did.

[Heng]

Kinda like the legions of idiots in other countries who went for that subprime mortgage and are now sucking pavement.

[Koo82]

They do for the sake of convenience or whatever reason and they don't care how it is in the future.

My husband puts metal plate in the microwave even an over sized plate and it cannot rotate. He says "The machine is designed to bear some unusual things" (mun tong thon).

[Misplaced]

Kinda like the legions of idiots in other countries who went for that subprime mortgage and are now sucking pavement.

And now the rest of us are paying for their mistake. 750 billion dollars worth

Stupid fockers

[Richb2004v2]

I my experience everything in Thailand is done with only the moment in mind. Nothing is done to last or with any consideration for the long term.

[dumball]

I my experience everything in Thailand is done with only the moment in mind. Nothing is done to last or with any consideration for the long term.

I agree with that , there is no tomorrow to many Thais , i was told by a long time ex/pat that if you offered to give a Thai $100.00 if he could wait until next week or $20.00 today , he would take the $20.00 .

Don't fix it 'til it's broke mentality .

[GuestHouse]

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing..... been through very similar things with Thai welders, and it got to the point where we threatened to fire them unless they started wearing the helmet, gloves etc. If you do buy one and give it too him, the minute you turn your back it will be off....

Curiouser and Curiouser - My own experience of managing Thais on large scale construction projects in Thailand is that Thai workers are very willing to comply with safety instructions - PPE compliance being noticeably higher than elsewhere in the world I have worked.

I do not believe the issue has anything to Thais being short sighted in terms of live today, forget tomorrow, rather the lack of safety instruction and training.

I actually believe that the Thai education instils this willingness to follow instructions.

[toptuan]

...there seems to be lack of ability to connect an action with a consequence of that particular action.

For some odd reason, the "risk-factor" computer chip is missing.

[track61]

I first started working with Thai craftsmen in the mid 70's in the middle east. It took me a year and one lost foot to get them out of flip flops and into boots. When I left after 2 years, they still only wore their hard hats when I was in the yard with them. When I went back 3 years later it was much better, probably because of the intense safety training conducted by the company during my absence.

[endure]

For all you western folks:

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof...

Apparently western immediacy is better than Thai immediacy...

[a2396]

I didn't know what else to call this post. but it has to do with the mentality of some Thais who seem to live only in the moment.

I was walking along a soi in Cha am today and came across a few men working outside a metal shop. They had a small production run going, some steel tube weldments.

The welder was doing the all-too-common .. welding with a pair of mirror sunglasses rather than a proper helmet. After completing my business and walking back to my car, I stopped for a moment. The welder was taking a break and his eyes looked terrible. We was rubbing them and clearly in some pain. I talked to him for a minute in my poor Thai and told him that I once ran a shop that had welders, and know how painful flash burns can be.

I spoke a bit direct .. "You know you should be using a helmet." He nodded,

"If you keep welding this way, pretty soon you won't be able to see [the puddle]."

He nodded again, kind of friendly and knowing, yet at the same time with a look of resignation.

I looked back once to see him striking an arc .. nothing except the sunglasses.

I understand that welding helmets are hot .. I have welded a time or two. I have also suffered some flash burns.

I just wonder if these guys really believe that they will somehow avoid the inevitable. Or if they feel so pressed to risk the health of their eyes. It's really pretty sad.

I wonder if I should go buy a helmet and give it to him.

Perception is..... your a farang, you know nothing..... been through very similar things with Thai welders, and it got to the point where we threatened to fire them unless they started wearing the helmet, gloves etc. If you do buy one and give it too him, the minute you turn your back it will be off....

This is very similar to the electricans in Thailand when you try and talk about earthing things, "Thailand no need earth", so obviously power in Thailand is different from everywhere else in the world.

Been working in heavy industry in Thailand for quite a few years and things like this are very frustrating as there seems to be lack of ability to connect an action with a consequence of that particular action.

I have seen this over & over. Most of them have no concept of cause & effect. Rational thought process? Limited at best/

[Soutpeel]

Curiouser and Curiouser - My own experience of managing Thais on large scale construction projects in Thailand is that Thai workers are very willing to comply with safety instructions - PPE compliance being noticeably higher than elsewhere in the world I have worked.

I do not believe the issue has anything to Thais being short sighted in terms of live today, forget tomorrow, rather the lack of safety instruction and training.

I actually believe that the Thai education instils this willingness to follow instructions.

And the minute they walk out the gate, the flip flops are on, climb on a motor bike with no helmet or wearing a hard hat..

[GENeIsUS]

I my experience everything in Thailand is done with only the moment in mind. Nothing is done to last or with any consideration for the long term.

I agree with that , there is no tomorrow to many Thais , i was told by a long time ex/pat that if you offered to give a Thai $100.00 if he could wait until next week or $20.00 today , he would take the $20.00 .

Don't fix it 'til it's broke mentality .

A bird in the hand, etc. etc..

[Heng]

Kinda like the legions of idiots in other countries who went for that subprime mortgage and are now sucking pavement.

And now the rest of us are paying for their mistake. 750 billion dollars worth

Stupid fockers

All the more reason why tax havens like Singapore, St. Kitts, Vanuatu, etc. keep growing in capital mass.

[Heng]

Apparently western immediacy is better than Thai immediacy...

Yeah, I like how folks not planning ahead in terms of local immigration, property law, and their own personal finances is the fault of the Thai government.

[jackr]

I first started working with Thai craftsmen in the mid 70's in the middle east. It took me a year and one lost foot to get them out of flip flops and into boots. When I left after 2 years, they still only wore their hard hats when I was in the yard with them.

I'm surprised they got away with just wearing hard hats in the Middle East. Don't they chop your hand off for wandering around naked over there?

[Soutpeel]

I first started working with Thai craftsmen in the mid 70's in the middle east. It took me a year and one lost foot to get them out of flip flops and into boots. When I left after 2 years, they still only wore their hard hats when I was in the yard with them.

I'm surprised they got away with just wearing hard hats in the Middle East. Don't they chop your hand off for wandering around naked over there?

Sure its a hand they chop off...

[klikster]

Yeah, I like how folks not planning ahead in terms of local immigration, property law, and their own personal finances is the fault of the Thai government.

What has this to do with the individual Thai's concept of immediacy?

[yabaaaa]

I my experience everything in Thailand is done with only the moment in mind. Nothing is done to last or with any consideration for the long term.

I agree with that , there is no tomorrow to many Thais , i was told by a long time ex/pat that if you offered to give a Thai $100.00 if he could wait until next week or $20.00 today , he would take the $20.00 .

Don't fix it 'til it's broke mentality .

I asked my wife about this and she said the Thai person would think today its real and next week probably not real so they will take what's real.

[PeaceBlondie]

endure's quotation by a famous wise man from Asia - "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof" was said right after he said, "Take no thought for the morrow." In more modern English, that is translated as "Do not be overly concerned about the future, because you have enough things to be concerned about right now."

From what little I imperfectly understand about Thai culture, peasants (the bottom 90% of the population) are indoctrinated not to care at all about anything, unless it is within their control and important enough to fix. Thus the national slogan is mai bpen rai rather than bpen sii.

///Added: Also, from what little I understand of the culture, there are loads of subjects and things which Thais systematically ignore. If it does not matter today, it never matters. Not just now, but forever.

[Payboy]

I wonder if I should go buy a helmet and give it to him.

only if it comes with a brain....

[Scott]

We, in the West, get safety drilled into us from day 1. I remember science lab when we had to wear all kinds of safety garb and if we didn't we were out on our butt. Here, they think it's OK to just tell people what they should do, but not why. Safety takes a long time and it takes explanation. I doubt this guy was taught how to weld by a professional welder, who could explain this stuff.

I wish instead of all the nationalism there was just as much emphasis on driving safely, crossing roads safely, wearing helmets etc.

[PhilHarries]

I'm kind of with GH on this one. In my experience Thai workers are very concientious at wearing the correct PPE but only if the employing company/contractor is committed to it and after an initial period of heavy policing. I used to visit a large fabrication yard at Bang Na where I was used to seeing workers without safety gear. But one time I visited every man jack of them had shiny new boots and bright yellow safety helmets. Why the sudden change? They were being audited by a Japanese contractor for the fabrication of structural steelwork and safety was a priority issue. Next visit it was back to normal.

And if you think Thailand is bad, you come over here in Viet Nam. We've had seven, yes seven, fatalities on site that were reported (God alone knows how many were just shipped out in a dumster full of soil). We've had the deputy prime minister criticising us for our push on safety and accused us of turning Vietnamese workers into wimps.

This has little to do with immediacy, "take it today for it may not be there tomorrow". This is to do with lack of education, nobody had taught the welder about the risk of arc eye, and plain old economics. If this welder demands his boss supply the mask/goggles his boss will just fire him and get in someone who'll do the job without. Safety is an issue you only hear politicians spout on about after a disaster and, sadly, this is also partially true in the west.

But on the general subject of immediacy I agree with dumball, generally they'd rather have $20 in the hand today than a promise of $5 a day for life. But that is one reason vote buying is so hard to stamp out. They'd prefer 300 Baht now and vote for a corrupt rogue than vote for an honest man who promises to push for reform so everybody gets a share over the long term. Promises, however noble, do not put food on the table today and the poor farmer's family is hungry today.

[lifeisrandom]

Kinda like the legions of idiots in other countries who went for that subprime mortgage and are now sucking pavement.

And now the rest of us are paying for their mistake. 750 billion dollars worth

Stupid fockers

All the more reason why tax havens like Singapore, St. Kitts, Vanuatu, etc. keep growing in capital mass.

singapore is not really a tax haven anymore, is it?

they wanted me to fill out an IRS tax form for the us gov last time i was there.