Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Naam]

a fair comment:

Jeff Harding: While I am an advocate of gold investments and gold money, I find that many gold bugs take rather simplistic views of gold markets, gold investments, and the economics behind it.

[Naam]

conspiracy!

(Reuters) - A four-year investigation into possible manipulation of the silver market looks likely to be dropped by regulators, the Financial Times reported on Monday.

The newspaper cited three people familiar with the situation as saying the regulator failed to find enough evidence to support a legal case.

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission first announced that it was investigating "complaints of misconduct in the silver market" in September 2008, following a barrage of allegations of manipulation from a group of precious metals investors.

The CFTC five commissioners have not yet formally determined the outcome of the investigation but may drop the case because it doesn't have sufficient evidence, according to people familiar with the situation, cited by the FT.

"The investigation has not reached its conclusion," a CFTC spokesman is quoted as saying by the FT.

[yoshiwara]

conspiracy!

(Reuters) - A four-year investigation into possible manipulation of the silver market looks likely to be dropped by regulators, the Financial Times reported on Monday.

The newspaper cited three people familiar with the situation as saying the regulator failed to find enough evidence to support a legal case.

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission first announced that it was investigating "complaints of misconduct in the silver market" in September 2008, following a barrage of allegations of manipulation from a group of precious metals investors.

The CFTC five commissioners have not yet formally determined the outcome of the investigation but may drop the case because it doesn't have sufficient evidence, according to people familiar with the situation, cited by the FT.

"The investigation has not reached its conclusion," a CFTC spokesman is quoted as saying by the FT.

Just confirmation of the extent of the conspiracy innit?

[churchill]

conspiracy conspiracy !

'Chilton countered: "The Financial Times report related to silver is not only premature, but inaccurate in several respects."

' "I continue to believe, consistent with my previous statements and information from the public, that there have been devious efforts related to moving the price of silver. There have also been silver and gold market anomalies outside of the silver investigation window that have raised, and continue to raise, market concerns."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/08/06/cftc-commissioner-bart-chilton-comments-on-the-sil/

[Naam]

none other than Paul Craig Roberts -- former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan -- recently had this to say on the matter: "I suspect that the Federal Reserve is manipulating the gold and silver markets in order to prevent its low interest rate policy from undermining the value of the US dollar. It is easy to offset rising prices of bullion due to physical demand by selling shorts in the paper market."

it it was that easy to influence prices by shorting or going long the price of any asset could be "easily" manipulated. fortunately that is not the case, respectively there is no evidence except "suspicion".

[edgarfriendly]

if 'they' can rig everything, why wouldn't they?

horse racing, in fact pretty much ANY sporting event is easily succeptable to fixing.

Or take diamonds as a rough example. tonnes upon tonnes of raw stones that are kept warehoused to ARTIFICIALLY create the perception of rarity.

equally there must be a fair weight of gold/silver/etc ETF's out there, creating ARTIFICIALLY inflated prices.(increased demand for something that is for some unavailable)

I dont doubt that there is some form of conspiracy or whatever name it gets given to avoid dealing with the matter directly.

and i certainly wouldnt put it past those with the ability to do so, to reap rewards from underhanded transactions.

i know for a fact, that if i was aware the price was about to rise or fall dramatically it would have an immediate effect on my buy/sell position.

but perhaps im just confusing things by not cutting n pasting with a one word sarcastic response.

WHERE IS GOLD GOING - Like this pretty much pointless thread, round & round in ever decreasing circles?

Naam says; waffle (mein house unt mein many kars unt unt unt...)

Churchill says; blah blah (im lonely too naam, but ill hide it with whatever i can salvage)

other muppets chime in with wafflecopter, blah blah, you're all knobs, check out my graph, it proves stuff(from the past)

Win Win Eh?

And i dont think i need to go into too much detail regarding the 'cost' of food, while millions go hungry, other millions dump TONNES of food every day..

Edited August 7, 2012 by edgarfriendly

[Naam]

to be more precise Edgar please add "mein Old Lady und meine two hunds"

[Naam]

equally there must be a fair weight of gold/silver/etc ETF's out there, creating ARTIFICIALLY inflated prices.(increased demand for something that is for some unavailable)

watch out for goldbugs who would like to tar and feather you!

[chiang mai]

other muppets chime in with wafflecopter, blah blah, you're all knobs, check out my graph, it proves stuff(from the past)

Great post, I especially like this line.

[Naam]

this is depressing! more than three days without any news which central bank has bought how many tons of the yellow metal are unbearable. not even a hint that the waffle season is soon starting in Absurdistan which will lead to substantial gold purchases (as it does every year).

[Naam]

Well well.. now the Swiss are "talking" of repatriating their gold

http://www.goldmoney...?gmrefcode=gata

here is the actual initiative they are trying to gather signatures for

http://www.goldinitiative.ch/

of course this is only being headed by a member of parliament. that would be like Ron Paul getting a "Audit the Fed" bill passed....

we all know how crazy that sounds....

http://www.washingto...-bill/?page=all

here's the beef culprit:

Haben Sie gewusst dass die Nationalbank während fünf Jahren Tag für Tag durchschnittlich eine Tonne Gold verkauft hat?

http://www.goldinitiative.ch/

did you know that the [swiss] Nationalbank sold an average of one ton of Gold every day for the last five years?

[yoshiwara]

none other than Paul Craig Roberts -- former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan -- recently had this to say on the matter: "I suspect that the Federal Reserve is manipulating the gold and silver markets in order to prevent its low interest rate policy from undermining the value of the US dollar. It is easy to offset rising prices of bullion due to physical demand by selling shorts in the paper market."

it it was that easy to influence prices by shorting or going long the price of any asset could be "easily" manipulated. fortunately that is not the case, respectively there is no evidence except "suspicion".

and selling shorts pushes the price of shorts down.

[Naam]

none other than Paul Craig Roberts -- former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan -- recently had this to say on the matter: "I suspect that the Federal Reserve is manipulating the gold and silver markets in order to prevent its low interest rate policy from undermining the value of the US dollar. It is easy to offset rising prices of bullion due to physical demand by selling shorts in the paper market."

it it was that easy to influence prices by shorting or going long the price of any asset could be "easily" manipulated. fortunately that is not the case, respectively there is no evidence except "suspicion".

and selling shorts pushes the price of shorts down.

[churchill]

Getting ready to short ...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/waiting-for-a-jump-to-short-silver-and-gold-2012-08-08?link=MW_latest_news

but ..I'm with Gartman for a change

“Ultimately I think bulls win,” says Gartman. “I think gold will break out to the upside.”

Gartman: Gold Traders at War & Decisive Battle Imminent

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48573591/

interesting chart .....

http://av.r.ftdata.co.uk/files/2012/08/120809-Deutsche-Bank.png

and alternative view ...

Gold QE

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/08/07/1109781/gold-qe/

[Naam]

ultimately... we all die

[Jayman]

Since you seem rather bored and depressed (talking about your ultimate death) I thought I would give you something to have a field day with

http://www.safehaven.com/article/26474/a-high-frequency-attack-on-gold

A High Frequency Attack on Gold

On June 7th, 2012, the price of gold dropped by $22 in less than a second, guided by a computer algorithm during late trading

Sharp price drops in gold, for example $10 within a few minutes, can be observed frequently. Often they occur several times per week. The decline that happened on June 7, 2012 looks, at first glance, like such a drop as well, although some observers immediately noticed the extremely high speed. Market reports assessed the timeframe from "43 seconds" to "less than 5 minutes". According to spot price data with minute precision, the decrease was $20 in less than 2 minutes. The intraday chart below shows the price development in the spot market on June 7, 2012. The relevant decline is marked in red.

[Naam]

the price of gold dropped by $22 in less than a second

where's the beef in a 1½% drop of an asset? i have seen bonds and shares dropping 10 and 15% within seconds.

[Jayman]

the price of gold dropped by $22 in less than a second

where's the beef in a 1½% drop of an asset? i have seen bonds and shares dropping 10 and 15% within seconds.

I suspect at your age there is little yet you haven't seen. Gotta love geriatrics, typical response to everything "Been there, seen that"

[Naam]

the price of gold dropped by $22 in less than a second

where's the beef in a 1½% drop of an asset? i have seen bonds and shares dropping 10 and 15% within seconds.

I suspect at your age there is little yet you haven't seen. Gotta love geriatrics, typical response to everything "Been there, seen that"

i suspect at your age one doesn't have experience, is still poor and has nothing substantial to say except doing some copying and pasting.

[Jayman]

Here is a good read discussing a Large Asian Buyer in the market the past few months..

Even the old and rich might like it.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/8/9_Ben_Davies_-_There_Is_A_Massive_Buyer_In_The_Gold_Market.html

[chiang mai]

Here is a good read discussing a Large Asian Buyer in the market the past few months..

Even the old and rich might like it.

http://kingworldnews...old_Market.html

The CEO of a gold fund is bullish on gold and has stories to tell, there's a shock, hardly objective reporting and/or analysis.

[Naam]

The CEO of a gold fund is bullish on gold and has stories to tell, there's a shock, hardly objective reporting and/or analysis.

reading any "stories" published by the hyper-super-goldbug²-wet-dream association™ is a waste of time.

[Naam]

i couldn't resist having a little fun with "Right now we are seeing very large physical orders for both gold and silver."

Today forty year veteran of the metals markets Bill Haynes told KWN, “Right now we are seeing very large physical orders for both gold and silver. It is very interesting because these are entities with large existing holdings of both physical gold and silver, but for some reason, right here, right now they are adding sizable quantities to their existing positions.”

“These are wealthy individuals that are very strong hands and they are taking the metal right out of the market, and believe me, these individuals are never sellers. They see gold and silver as a hard asset that has been money for thousands of years, and they are pulling it out of the market and putting it away.

It is also very interesting that we are seeing an equal amount of money going into both gold and silver...

http://kingworldnews...d_&_Silver.html

it would be very interesting to know which entities with large existing holdings of both physical gold and silver are reducing their existing positions by selling sizable quantities and accepting worthless fiat money for them.

[mccw]

I have no hard facts But could it be that most physical gold sold is from newly mined and minted supplies while most post sale is held long term and only very rarely sold in sizeable quantities?

"Paper" gold takes up the excess demand and enables the manipulation by the usual players for the usual reasons.

There could well be a point where the physical demand outstrips supply and the sellers simply aren't prepared to pay this paper induced spot price. You could say in western market this has started to happen already as the premiums for physical over spot have increased. The market will break; paper worth nothing and bullion through the roof.

Not for sure of course but the possibility is there.

[Naam]

I have no hard facts

1.But could it be that most physical gold sold is from newly mined and minted supplies

2. while most post sale is held long term and only very rarely sold in sizeable quantities?

1. that does not change the fact that you can't buy if there is no seller, based on the fact that newly mined and minted supplies are sold and not given away for free.

2. an assumption.

[Naam]

There could well be a point where the physical demand outstrips supply and the sellers simply aren't prepared to pay this paper induced spot price. You could say in western market this has started to happen already as the premiums for physical over spot have increased. The market will break; paper worth nothing and bullion through the roof.

Not for sure of course but the possibility is there.

1. there could be... yes there "could".

2. you could say... yes you "could say" a lot.

3. check Thai gold market and tell me how much premiums have increased for physical. Thai

physical gold price matches since years international spot price and differs by a negligible ±THB 200/ounce.

4. not sure... but possibility...

[Naam]

Crédit Suisse 11-Aug-2012

Precious metals

Precious metals prices remained in a relatively tight range with volumes traded reduced to half that of the usual average seen across all markets. Gold continues to find strong resistance on approach of $1,620 with physical selling capping upside. ON the back of weak China export numbers, especially from Europe, there seems to renewed hope for more monetary stimulus from the PBoC. This is providing some support for gold, but not so much for platinum and palladium.

The negative Chinese trade data is putting downward pressure on platinum and palladium. In the absence of any real demand to push prices higher, we do believe rallies for these two metals will fade. We note that the PGM basket price is now back at ZAR9,000/PGM oz—the lowest level since October 2010.

Once again today, lacking any fundamental-based impetus, precious metals are largely looking to the euro for direction, closely tracking the currency’s every move.

Gold support is at $1,605 and $1,602. Resistance is $1,616 and $1,622. Silver support is at $27.75 and $27.54, resistance is at $28.21 and $28.45.

Platinum support is at $1,397 and $1,390, resistance is at $1,413 and $1,422. Palladium support is at $580 and resistance at $592.

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[mccw]

"Current legislation is likely to make it difficult for the Russian Government to buy gold to prop up its reserves. The state plan to buy 500kg may run into problems says Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper.

The problem lies in Article 94 of the Federal law that regulates gold purchases. Previously the rules did not apply to the State Treasury or Gohran, but now the article bans the state reserve from giving advance payments to gold mining companies and requires an auction instead.

The state treasury announced in August it will hold an electronic auction to purchase nearly $31.5 million worth of bullion but so far it hasnt received a single application.

Before we used to give advance payments and buy gold at a fixed price, maybe not as much as we wanted to but we had deals. Now we have to hold an auction. But the problem is that whoever offers the lowest price becomes the winner. Its absurd. There is a London fixing price. So who would want to sell gold to us cheaper? said a Gahran representative.

Gold mining companies see no profit in selling bullion to the sate. Instead they would rather sell it to banks that offer a significantly higher price. They also pay 50 per cent in advance for the gold purchase.

Most gold deals on the world market are done by using the so called London fixing price. This is the price of bullion that is set twice a day on the London market by the five members of The London Gold Market Fixing Ltd.

It is designed to fix a price for settling contracts between members of the London bullion market

The biggest individual holders of goldcentral banks, international organizations and governmentsare believed to account for approximately 16.5 percent of the world's gold, holding about 30,700 tons.

Gold accounts for about 9.1 percent of Russias total reserves, according to the World Gold Council. That compares with more than 70 percent for the U.S. and Germany, the biggest bullion holders.

The Bank of Russia has repeatedly said it planned to keep buying gold on the domestic market in order to diversify foreign exchange reserves. In 2011 it bought about 100 tonnes of bullion.

Mexico, Thailand , Korea and Kazakhstan have been most active on the gold market. Central banks around the world are on course to buy more bullion this year than the purchases of about 456 tons in 2011 as countries diversify."

From the RT app

So here is example the physical and paper market are quite different.

This seems to confirm that large purchases are largely only possible to source from miners and by some 50% payment in advance at that.

Also shows the disputed importance of the London gold fix of a few pages ago.

Regarding Thai premiums; is this not fixed by the government? So you know the answer why west is different to Thai.

[Naam]

this seems to confirm that a Russian domestic law sets a precedence for the international gold market