M.a. From Cambridge

[Peripheral]

I got a B.A. from Cambridge over 20 years ago. Cambridge University automatically offer an M.A. to their graduates 12 months later. I never bothered to collect it because it is really worthless.

However, I am just finishing a CELTA with a view to teaching in Thailand. Do you think this M.A. (I can still have it if I want it) would carry any weight in Thailand? Would they just take it at face value as an M.A. in the subject which I "B.A." ed in?

Thanks.

[ProfessorFart]

I got a B.A. from Cambridge over 20 years ago. Cambridge University automatically offer an M.A. to their graduates 12 months later. I never bothered to collect it because it is really worthless.

What a scandal!! Some folks have to work for their MAs.

In the UK a Cambridge MA may be regarded as worthless if the employers are aware of the system. In Thailand, the more the merrier I'd say!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I got a B.A. from Cambridge over 20 years ago. Cambridge University automatically offer an M.A. to their graduates 12 months later. I never bothered to collect it because it is really worthless.

However, I am just finishing a CELTA with a view to teaching in Thailand. Do you think this M.A. (I can still have it if I want it) would carry any weight in Thailand? Would they just take it at face value as an M.A. in the subject which I "B.A." ed in?

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go for it. If nothing else, it'll look good, and has to be better than a KS Road fake degree.

[boris]

I got a B.A. from Cambridge over 20 years ago. Cambridge University automatically offer an M.A. to their graduates 12 months later. I never bothered to collect it because it is really worthless.

However, I am just finishing a CELTA with a view to teaching in Thailand. Do you think this M.A. (I can still have it if I want it) would carry any weight in Thailand? Would they just take it at face value as an M.A. in the subject which I "B.A." ed in?

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was in the same position but collected my M.A only a couple of years after graduation.It was certainly an amusing opportunity for a few friends to return to Cambridge for the day.

I think it would be worth doing in your case to improve your job marketing prospects, although most educated people know anyway a Camridge M.A is not a further degree.The reality is you are likely to be an attractive proposition (in the school's perception) as a teacher in status conscious Thailand simply because you are a Cambridge graduate.

[Richard W]

I got a B.A. from Cambridge over 20 years ago. Cambridge University automatically offer an M.A. to their graduates 12 months later. I never bothered to collect it because it is really worthless.

However, I am just finishing a CELTA with a view to teaching in Thailand. Do you think this M.A. (I can still have it if I want it) would carry any weight in Thailand? Would they just take it at face value as an M.A. in the subject which I "B.A." ed in?

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doesn't it confer borrowing rights from the University Library? UL Webpage (Obviously they aren't much use if you live in Thailand!)

Edited December 7, 2004 by Richard W

[Ijustwannateach]

The thing an MA is typically most useful here for is work in the actual universities, which are notoriously underpaid (though with good vacations and other benefits). If you have a pension and you're looking for beer money, that could be a good gig for you.

"Steven"

[boris]

The thing an MA is typically most useful here for is work in the actual universities, which are notoriously underpaid (though with good vacations and other benefits).  If you have a pension and you're looking for beer money, that could be a good gig for you.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't want to be snooty but it would be quite unlikely that a Cambridge graduate would be looking fo a "gig" to provide "beer money".

[chuchok]

The thing an MA is typically most useful here for is work in the actual universities, which are notoriously underpaid (though with good vacations and other benefits).  If you have a pension and you're looking for beer money, that could be a good gig for you.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't want to be snooty but it would be quite unlikely that a Cambridge graduate would be looking fo a "gig" to provide "beer money".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? Just because somebody went to Cambridge does not mean they are anything other than anybody else.

[boris]

The thing an MA is typically most useful here for is work in the actual universities, which are notoriously underpaid (though with good vacations and other benefits).  If you have a pension and you're looking for beer money, that could be a good gig for you.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't want to be snooty but it would be quite unlikely that a Cambridge graduate would be looking fo a "gig" to provide "beer money".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? Just because somebody went to Cambridge does not mean they are anything other than anybody else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well of course they and graduates of other elite universities(Harvard,Yale,Oxford etc) are just human beings and have no moral superiority over anyone else.If this is what you meant,and with respect it is a rather commonplace little point,I agree with you.But by and large,and naturally there are exceptions, an employer knows he will be taking on someone of higher calibre if recruiting from the elite universities than most graduates of the second and third tier institutions.

[chuchok]

The thing an MA is typically most useful here for is work in the actual universities, which are notoriously underpaid (though with good vacations and other benefits).  If you have a pension and you're looking for beer money, that could be a good gig for you.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't want to be snooty but it would be quite unlikely that a Cambridge graduate would be looking fo a "gig" to provide "beer money".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? Just because somebody went to Cambridge does not mean they are anything other than anybody else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well of course they and graduates of other elite universities(Harvard,Yale,Oxford etc) are just human beings and have no moral superiority over anyone else.If this is what you meant,and with respect it is a rather commonplace little point,I agree with you.But by and large,and naturally there are exceptions, an employer knows he will be taking on someone of higher calibre if recruiting from the elite universities than most graduates of the second and third tier institutions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my native country, I went to one of the "best" private schools.This does not mean that I am any better than anybody else. When I interview people for jobs, I could not give a monkeys as to where they were schooled. I go for ability. There is a big difference.

[boris]

In my native country, I went to one of the "best" private schools.This does not mean that I am any better than anybody else. When I interview people for jobs, I could not give a monkeys as to where they were schooled. I go for ability. There is a big difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what you mean by school, ie school or university.If you did mean secondary school I'm afraid it's irrelevant since it would simply be a question of whether your parents could afford the fees.

Of course all jobs should be awarded on merit and ability.But it would be foolish to pretend that graduates of elite universities are unlikely to present some of the best candidates.I've made it clear that they won't always but very many will be better material than graduates of some lesser outfit.

Interestingly some of the most successful entrepreneurs have not graduated at all ,but that's enother story.

[Ijustwannateach]

Boris, your point would be well-taken anywhere *else* in the world, but in Thailand they're just as happy half the time if you have any degree at all, and most of the big foreign school names are not *that* famous to the average Thai, even the average Thai school administration. And as I've said elsewhere on the board, extensive qualifications in Thailand ONLY increase your chances of getting any particular job. In other words, you'd have to find a job which offered the chance to earn benefits commensurate with your qualifications- and no matter how picky or snooty a farang may be about his degree (and it seems to me that those with the best degrees here are actually the least snooty) the job market is both bottom heavy and, I'd say, actually *truncated* at the top end. Few schools offer more than 50K or so (and there are precious few that offer that much). The ones who offer more can be so picky that it isn't even enough to have a real degree from a good school- it must be an *education and teaching* degree with teaching experience at home thrown in. And even with the "best-est-ish" jobs at the "true-blue" Int. schools at about 120K- and precious few of them- a teacher's cert with experience from Virginia would be a more appropriate qualification than a Princeton Master's in History. Remember, we're talking about TEACHING jobs here- things which the typical Haaaahvaaaahd grad is usually NOT putting high on his career bill [unless he's trying to become an academic].

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, my last message was in response to your *previous* message, Boris.

In response to your last message, yeah, an example would be Bose, who dropped out of MIT to start his speaker company.

On the other hand, we have a successful Yalie- George W.- the exception that proves your rule?

"Steven"

[chuchok]

In my native country, I went to one of the "best" private schools.This does not mean that I am any better than anybody else. When I interview people for jobs, I could not give a monkeys as to where they were schooled. I go for ability. There is a big difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what you mean by school, ie school or university.If you did mean secondary school I'm afraid it's irrelevant since it would simply be a question of whether your parents could afford the fees.

Of course all jobs should be awarded on merit and ability.But it would be foolish to pretend that graduates of elite universities are unlikely to present some of the best candidates.I've made it clear that they won't always but very many will be better material than graduates of some lesser outfit.

Interestingly some of the most successful entrepreneurs have not graduated at all ,but that's enother story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where I was born, school means alot. Nobody cares where you went to uni,as most of them are on equal footing.

I used to employ alot of people. This is just my opinion. On average the ones that worked out best came from a good family background, regardless if they went to a top Uni/school or if they were rich/poor.

Uni shows that people can learn, nothing more.Show me a person with the will and the desire to succeed first. This, in my opinion will always win.

[boris]

In my native country, I went to one of the "best" private schools.This does not mean that I am any better than anybody else. When I interview people for jobs, I could not give a monkeys as to where they were schooled. I go for ability. There is a big difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what you mean by school, ie school or university.If you did mean secondary school I'm afraid it's irrelevant since it would simply be a question of whether your parents could afford the fees.

Of course all jobs should be awarded on merit and ability.But it would be foolish to pretend that graduates of elite universities are unlikely to present some of the best candidates.I've made it clear that they won't always but very many will be better material than graduates of some lesser outfit.

Interestingly some of the most successful entrepreneurs have not graduated at all ,but that's enother story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where I was born, school means alot. Nobody cares where you went to uni,as most of them are on equal footing.

I used to employ alot of people. This is just my opinion. On average the ones that worked out best came from a good family background, regardless if they went to a top Uni/school or if they were rich/poor.

Uni shows that people can learn, nothing more.Show me a person with the will and the desire to succeed first. This, in my opinion will always win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting.Would you care to reveal which country you are talking about, the one where where the right kind secondary school means such a lot and where universities are all on the same footing? I note you feel that people from the best family backgrounds are the best candidates for employment, and I thought I was being elitist! I think you may underestimate the importance of the ability to learn along with analytical ability.But I agree the will to succeed is also v.important although difficult to assess at a job interview for example.But it's horses for courses and this thread will lose any meaning unless we are all more specific about what kind of jobs university graduates are good for.

[Ijustwannateach]

As another side note, for "gig to provide beer money" read "low responsibility job to provide a cheap, trouble-free visa and living accommodation during retirement..."

[chuchok]

In my native country, I went to one of the "best" private schools.This does not mean that I am any better than anybody else. When I interview people for jobs, I could not give a monkeys as to where they were schooled. I go for ability. There is a big difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what you mean by school, ie school or university.If you did mean secondary school I'm afraid it's irrelevant since it would simply be a question of whether your parents could afford the fees.

Of course all jobs should be awarded on merit and ability.But it would be foolish to pretend that graduates of elite universities are unlikely to present some of the best candidates.I've made it clear that they won't always but very many will be better material than graduates of some lesser outfit.

Interestingly some of the most successful entrepreneurs have not graduated at all ,but that's enother story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where I was born, school means alot. Nobody cares where you went to uni,as most of them are on equal footing.

I used to employ alot of people. This is just my opinion. On average the ones that worked out best came from a good family background, regardless if they went to a top Uni/school or if they were rich/poor.

Uni shows that people can learn, nothing more.Show me a person with the will and the desire to succeed first. This, in my opinion will always win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting.Would you care to reveal which country you are talking about, the one where where the right kind secondary school means such a lot and where universities are all on the same footing? I note you feel that people from the best family backgrounds are the best candidates for employment, and I thought I was being elitist! I think you may underestimate the importance of the ability to learn along with analytical ability.But I agree the will to succeed is also v.important although difficult to assess at a job interview for example.But it's horses for courses and this thread will lose any meaning unless we are all more specific about what kind of jobs university graduates are good for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NZ.

Analytical?? A Uni education might give you the skills to pass exams or to analyze information.It does not give you the ability to analyse people or to do well in business. I learnt more about business in six months from a work mate , than I learnt in 4 years of uni.

"what kind of jobs university graduates are good for"...Everything.

[boris]

Analytical?? A Uni education might give you the skills to pass exams or to analyze information.It does not give you the ability to analyse people or to do well in business. I learnt more about business in six months from a work mate , than I learnt in 4 years of uni.

"what kind of jobs university graduates are good for"...Everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.In the recent authoritative Times Educational ranking review of world universities NZ had 3 relatively unimpressive appearences-Auckland at 67,Massey at 108 and Otago at 114 (incidentally rather cutting the ground from your point that all NZ unis much the same).Australia in contrast,given its modest population, is startlingly good with ANU at 16,Melbourne at 22 and Monash at 33.

Without wishing to be rude (well,maybe just a bit) once you take out the tired old university of life crap out of your argument, one detects that the fact you didn't go to a decent uni is your main driver.Live with it.No-one is saying being an elite university graduate is essential for success in any field.

[Ijustwannateach]

C'mon, guys, play nice.

The point I was trying to make earlier, Boris, is that in Thailand most schools below university level will be overjoyed if you have any kind of degree at all- that's how desperate they are for farang who even have the semblance of real qualifications. So desperate, in fact, that they cannot actually *require* farang teachers in primary/secondary to have degrees at all, much less in their subject, and still stay in the market for a teacher given the kind of wages they are willing to pay.

I'm a common sense advocate on the issue. There aren't enough teachers, even unqualified ones. This is true of just about every country, not only Thailand. I say lower the qualification barriers where it makes sense to do so- especially in the country areas where the overall education level is lower anyway and there's not going to be much competition on qualifications for a loooooong time. And in the case of teaching spoken English, there are very, very, very, very few Thais who would have better qualifications for it than even a fresh-out-of-high-school grad. So I don't think it's that much of an issue until you get to where the action is- Bangkok- and there the natural selection and competition weeds out the incompetent pretenders- and if a few competent ones stay in the game on their merits, I say more power to 'em.

This is changing/will change, as the market gets savvier and parents become less willing to leave their children in just any ol' school. That'll be good for us real/semi-real teachers because the wages that discourage us now are largely depressed by the presence of so many pretenders. Because of this same effect, it has largely no impact to have a "great" degree compared to a "mediocre" one compared to an "awful" one.

Even the unis are affected by this, because their salaries are even lower though they require an additional degree. That's why I mention it as a job for retirees, because who else can afford it?

"Steven"

[chuchok]

Analytical?? A Uni education might give you the skills to pass exams or to analyze information.It does not give you the ability to analyse people or to do well in business. I learnt more about business in six months from a work mate , than I learnt in 4 years of uni.

"what kind of jobs university graduates are good for"...Everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.In the recent authoritative Times Educational ranking review of world universities NZ had 3 relatively unimpressive appearences-Auckland at 67,Massey at 108 and Otago at 114 (incidentally rather cutting the ground from your point that all NZ unis much the same).Australia in contrast,given its modest population, is startlingly good with ANU at 16,Melbourne at 22 and Monash at 33.

Without wishing to be rude (well,maybe just a bit) once you take out the tired old university of life crap out of your argument, one detects that the fact you didn't go to a decent uni is your main driver.Live with it.No-one is saying being an elite university graduate is essential for success in any field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris me old son, you are a funny man.

"Australia due to it's modest pop"...now you are really bringing out the funny stuff.Please tell me what is not modest.

"To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities"..well, well,well. And where were you educated Boris? England by chance?

I went to Auckland uni.So according to your facts, is the best uni in NZ.Why would you detect "that the fact you didn't go to a decent uni is your main driver.Live with it" you are a bright boy Boris. Are you a teacher, because I would not want one of my children taught by someone who knows it all like you.

[boris]

Analytical?? A Uni education might give you the skills to pass exams or to analyze information.It does not give you the ability to analyse people or to do well in business. I learnt more about business in six months from a work mate , than I learnt in 4 years of uni.

"what kind of jobs university graduates are good for"...Everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.In the recent authoritative Times Educational ranking review of world universities NZ had 3 relatively unimpressive appearences-Auckland at 67,Massey at 108 and Otago at 114 (incidentally rather cutting the ground from your point that all NZ unis much the same).Australia in contrast,given its modest population, is startlingly good with ANU at 16,Melbourne at 22 and Monash at 33.

Without wishing to be rude (well,maybe just a bit) once you take out the tired old university of life crap out of your argument, one detects that the fact you didn't go to a decent uni is your main driver.Live with it.No-one is saying being an elite university graduate is essential for success in any field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris me old son, you are a funny man.

"Australia due to it's modest pop"...now you are really bringing out the funny stuff.Please tell me what is not modest.

"To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities"..well, well,well. And where were you educated Boris? England by chance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if you are looking for a serious answer or just flailing around.Yes with a population from memory of about 20 million(one third of the number of France,Italy or UK) it is a fantastic achievement for Australia to have 3 world class universities in the top 40, and a great reflection on a first class tertiary system there.I think I have already demonstrated NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.Which university were you at by the way? Yes I was at Cambridge,ever heard of it.What's your point?Suggest stick to the bungee jumping,old boy.Tootle pip.

[chuchok]

Analytical?? A Uni education might give you the skills to pass exams or to analyze information.It does not give you the ability to analyse people or to do well in business. I learnt more about business in six months from a work mate , than I learnt in 4 years of uni.

"what kind of jobs university graduates are good for"...Everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.In the recent authoritative Times Educational ranking review of world universities NZ had 3 relatively unimpressive appearences-Auckland at 67,Massey at 108 and Otago at 114 (incidentally rather cutting the ground from your point that all NZ unis much the same).Australia in contrast,given its modest population, is startlingly good with ANU at 16,Melbourne at 22 and Monash at 33.

Without wishing to be rude (well,maybe just a bit) once you take out the tired old university of life crap out of your argument, one detects that the fact you didn't go to a decent uni is your main driver.Live with it.No-one is saying being an elite university graduate is essential for success in any field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris me old son, you are a funny man.

"Australia due to it's modest pop"...now you are really bringing out the funny stuff.Please tell me what is not modest.

"To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities"..well, well,well. And where were you educated Boris? England by chance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if you are looking for a serious answer or just flailing around.Yes with a population from memory of about 20 million(one third of the number of France,Italy or UK) it is a fantastic achievement for Australia to have 3 world class universities in the top 40, and a great reflection on a first class tertiary system there.I think I have already demonstrated NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.Which university were you at by the way? Yes I was at Cambridge,ever heard of it.What's your point?Suggest stick to the bungee jumping,old boy.Tootle pip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read my post Boris me old cock sparrow.Now I know why there were so many 10 pound immigrants in NZ and Australia.

[boris]

Analytical?? A Uni education might give you the skills to pass exams or to analyze information.It does not give you the ability to analyse people or to do well in business. I learnt more about business in six months from a work mate , than I learnt in 4 years of uni.

"what kind of jobs university graduates are good for"...Everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.In the recent authoritative Times Educational ranking review of world universities NZ had 3 relatively unimpressive appearences-Auckland at 67,Massey at 108 and Otago at 114 (incidentally rather cutting the ground from your point that all NZ unis much the same).Australia in contrast,given its modest population, is startlingly good with ANU at 16,Melbourne at 22 and Monash at 33.

Without wishing to be rude (well,maybe just a bit) once you take out the tired old university of life crap out of your argument, one detects that the fact you didn't go to a decent uni is your main driver.Live with it.No-one is saying being an elite university graduate is essential for success in any field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris me old son, you are a funny man.

"Australia due to it's modest pop"...now you are really bringing out the funny stuff.Please tell me what is not modest.

"To be frank NZ is not a very good example for elite universities"..well, well,well. And where were you educated Boris? England by chance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if you are looking for a serious answer or just flailing around.Yes with a population from memory of about 20 million(one third of the number of France,Italy or UK) it is a fantastic achievement for Australia to have 3 world class universities in the top 40, and a great reflection on a first class tertiary system there.I think I have already demonstrated NZ is not a very good example for elite universities.Which university were you at by the way? Yes I was at Cambridge,ever heard of it.What's your point?Suggest stick to the bungee jumping,old boy.Tootle pip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read my post Boris me old cock sparrow.Now I know why there were so many 10 pound immigrants in NZ and Australia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Floored me there I'm afraid with your rapier thrust.Really no offence..but game,set and match to me.

[chuchok]

What are you afraid of Boris?

Respectfully suggest that you stick to teaching boris old boy.Were you a teacher in the UK?

[boris]

What are you afraid of Boris?

Respectfully suggest that you stick to teaching boris old boy.Were you a teacher in the UK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never worked after graduation in the Uk and never was a teacher in my life.Have always been a businessman and a fairly successful one..Look I don't want to be bad mannered or anything but your responses are just so puerile - (what are you afraid of etc).If you have some serious points please make them otherwise shall we call it a day?You can have the last word if you like.I don't mind.

[chuchok]

What are you afraid of Boris?

Respectfully suggest that you stick to teaching boris old boy.Were you a teacher in the UK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never worked after graduation in the Uk and never was a teacher in my life.Have always been a businessman and a fairly successful one..Look I don't want to be bad mannered or anything but your responses are just so puerile - (what are you afraid of etc).If you have some serious points please make them otherwise shall we call it a day?You can have the last word if you like.I don't mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Floored me there I'm afraid with your rapier thrust"

Sorry Boris, I was taking the piss.

Thank you for not minding that I get the last word. You are a real trooper mate and a good old stick.

[Readytogo]

Interesting! This thread has suddenly become a discussion of elitism!

I must say that my degree was obtained over 20 years ago and while I will be grateful for any help that the Cambridge factor gives me, I don't think that being a Cambridge graduate will make me a better teacher than a graduate of any other university.

I am just about to finish a CELTA at Cork University (Ireland) and I will be tested against all the other guys on the course without reference to my past educational background.

Let's hope I come up to standard! It's a tough course.

I have contacted my old college (Jesus) and they are going to send me on my M.A. in a few weeks. It will be interesting to see if it will have any influence in my job quest.

Thanks for all your replies and comments.

[ProfessorFart]

Old Boris is a good advert for this antiquated educational institution. Snobby, pretentious, and not so bright.

[boris]

Old Boris is a good advert for this antiquated educational institution. Snobby, pretentious, and not so bright.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh dear still smarting from our last encounter are we?

[Ijustwannateach]

Ummmm... this thread is in danger of going irretrievably off-topic...

If anyone would like to offer us any evidence WHICH foreign university you've gone to matters a whit regarding TEACHING JOBS IN THAILAND, that might get us back on track... it's my contention that there is little/no such evidence...

"Steven"