Property Crisis ?

[glyph]

"Looks like one person at least disagrees with you glyph."

So what? Evidently, you live your life in consensus with everyone else. That certainly saves intellectual energy. Several people, including yourself, believe that the BKK real estate market is currently crashing. Oh no! But, wait, where are the falling prices? Your post mentions a possibility of price erosion? Possibility? That's not a certainty.

You and others invest using a daily newspaper, rather than planning long-term. Everyone read "Gold - $5,000 an ounce!" - but only a few believed. You bought at $1000/ounce...and watched as 25% of your investment disappeared. Everyone read "Oil - $300 a barrel!" - but only a few believed. You bought options at $130/barrel, only to see half of your investment disappear.

[LennyW]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

[prefabs]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

Yes yes,yes, yes. We hear you. Hear you but don't believe you.

On behalf of those of us who DO live in Thailand, let me remind you of the huge (not) successes of Ocean1, Spinnaker, Sails etc. And developments ostensibly on HOLD, but going the same way. And of daily tales of people who have either lost, or about to lose their depositsand payments.

Property boom, my a*se

[MJP]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

It's called oversupply old chap.

Happens in all bull markets after a while and are lagging indicators of the real economic situation.

I mean, who, apart from a complete idiot like me, would actually put lots of money into Thailand?

Can I suggest you go to here;

http://forum.globalhousepricecrash.com/ind...0&start=400

[MJP]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

Yes yes,yes, yes. We hear you. Hear you but don't believe you.

On behalf of those of us who DO live in Thailand, let me remind you of the huge (not) successes of Ocean1, Spinnaker, Sails etc. And developments ostensibly on HOLD, but going the same way. And of daily tales of people who have either lost, or about to lose their depositsand payments.

Property boom, my a*se

Biggest global bubble in the history of mankind and it's just popped.

[midas]

"Looks like one person at least disagrees with you glyph."

So what? Evidently, you live your life in consensus with everyone else. That certainly saves intellectual energy. Several people, including yourself, believe that the BKK real estate market is currently crashing. Oh no! But, wait, where are the falling prices? Your post mentions a possibility of price erosion? Possibility? That's not a certainty.

You and others invest using a daily newspaper, rather than planning long-term. Everyone read "Gold - $5,000 an ounce!" - but only a few believed. You bought at $1000/ounce...and watched as 25% of your investment disappeared. Everyone read "Oil - $300 a barrel!" - but only a few believed. You bought options at $130/barrel, only to see half of your investment disappear.

Calm down calm down glyph there you go again full of emotion please remember to take your medicine.

I never said there would be a property crash because I have always acknowledged Thailand is different.

What I think will happen here is just stagnation but that doesn't mean property investment is a good thing

under those circumstances because you risk having a very illiquid asset. It's OK maybe if you never have to

worry about selling. And there is definitely no need for justification for anyone to rush into anything right now

contrary to your advice

[midas]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

Oh LennyW you old rascal! Sometimes I think you are just having everybody on because I'm sure

you cannot really be that dumb as to say something like this and really mean it!

[MJP]

"Looks like one person at least disagrees with you glyph."

So what? Evidently, you live your life in consensus with everyone else. That certainly saves intellectual energy. Several people, including yourself, believe that the BKK real estate market is currently crashing. Oh no! But, wait, where are the falling prices? Your post mentions a possibility of price erosion? Possibility? That's not a certainty.

You and others invest using a daily newspaper, rather than planning long-term. Everyone read "Gold - $5,000 an ounce!" - but only a few believed. You bought at $1000/ounce...and watched as 25% of your investment disappeared. Everyone read "Oil - $300 a barrel!" - but only a few believed. You bought options at $130/barrel, only to see half of your investment disappear.

Calm down calm down glyph there you go again full of emotion please remember to take your medicine.

I never said there would be a property crash because I have always acknowledged Thailand is different.

What I think will happen here is just stagnation but that doesn't mean property investment is a good thing

under those circumstances because you risk having a very illiquid asset. It's OK maybe if you never have to

worry about selling. And there is definitely no need for justification for anyone to rush into anything right now

contrary to your advice

Several factors play into the 'lagging indicator' bit in Thailand.

1. The Baht strengthening is going to/has reduced the purchasing power of the falang, I know this because I too build in Thailand (for own use not re-sale mind you)

2. The economic disaster spreading from the west is only just starting to reach Thailand golden shores

3. The Thai banks deny being involved with toxic SIV's, but I for one don't believe them

Property looking pretty expensive now in Thailand, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .

[LennyW]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

Oh LennyW you old rascal! Sometimes I think you are just having everybody on because I'm sure

you cannot really be that dumb as to say something like this and really mean it!

Ha ha, A lot of people just look at all the glitzy high profile developments and seem to use that as some sort of yardstick,(weather they fly or fail) look at the local developers here in Pattaya such as Eakmongkol, they are now on to something like project 17 or 18 (maybe more!), they never advertise, they dont employ real estate agents or pay commissions, people walk in on a daily basis and buy houses, same with Leng Kee and their shophouses, its quite amazing actually - the key to their success - PRICE, these people are charging fair prices, not the overinflated prices aimed at foreigners in the glitzy projects.

My wife and i went to a small development near Ban Amphur just as construction was starting on the first houses, we were looking to buy one for the Son, priced at just under a million Baht and guess what - sold out!! Again, the key - very well priced for what they were.

A lot of the people that buy in some of these more western orientated developments see their purchase as being a better deal than in the west, however, for Thailand it is very expensive but they tend to overlook that.

IMHO if property is correctly priced then it will always be a sound investment, oh yeah and BUY NOW!!!

[midas]

Several factors play into the 'lagging indicator' bit in Thailand.

1. The Baht strengthening is going to/has reduced the purchasing power of the falang, I know this because I too build in Thailand (for own use not re-sale mind you)

2. The economic disaster spreading from the west is only just starting to reach Thailand golden shores

3. The Thai banks deny being involved with toxic SIV's, but I for one don't believe them

Property looking pretty expensive now in Thailand, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .

Another interesting point MJP.

which countries do most of the farang expats come from that end up buying condos here?

I would say it would be mostly USA, Europe and Australia and in each of those cases

their purchasing power has certainly been heavily eroded and you are indeed correct

there will be a time lag before all these things become evident here

[midas]

IMHO if property is correctly priced then it will always be a sound investment,

the first time you have said something I agree with

but there's the rub

[MJP]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

Oh LennyW you old rascal! Sometimes I think you are just having everybody on because I'm sure

you cannot really be that dumb as to say something like this and really mean it!

Ha ha, A lot of people just look at all the glitzy high profile developments and seem to use that as some sort of yardstick,(weather they fly or fail) look at the local developers here in Pattaya such as Eakmongkol, they are now on to something like project 17 or 18 (maybe more!), they never advertise, they dont employ real estate agents or pay commissions, people walk in on a daily basis and buy houses, same with Leng Kee and their shophouses, its quite amazing actually - the key to their success - PRICE, these people are charging fair prices, not the overinflated prices aimed at foreigners in the glitzy projects.

My wife and i went to a small development near Ban Amphur just as construction was starting on the first houses, we were looking to buy one for the Son, priced at just under a million Baht and guess what - sold out!! Again, the key - very well priced for what they were.

A lot of the people that buy in some of these more western orientated developments see their purchase as being a better deal than in the west, however, for Thailand it is very expensive but they tend to overlook that.

IMHO if property is correctly priced then it will always be a sound investment, oh yeah and BUY NOW!!!

Perhaps you're in the market for some prime residential development land overlooking Bang Saray?

[fidelio]

For those that actually live in Thailand ( i guess that will exclude the majority of posters here then!), take a look around, there are new condo and housing projects being launched on a daily basis - surely they cant all be wrong!

Oh LennyW you old rascal! Sometimes I think you are just having everybody on because I'm sure

you cannot really be that dumb as to say something like this and really mean it!

Ha ha, A lot of people just look at all the glitzy high profile developments and seem to use that as some sort of yardstick,(weather they fly or fail) look at the local developers here in Pattaya such as Eakmongkol, they are now on to something like project 17 or 18 (maybe more!), they never advertise, they dont employ real estate agents or pay commissions, people walk in on a daily basis and buy houses, same with Leng Kee and their shophouses, its quite amazing actually - the key to their success - PRICE, these people are charging fair prices, not the overinflated prices aimed at foreigners in the glitzy projects.

My wife and i went to a small development near Ban Amphur just as construction was starting on the first houses, we were looking to buy one for the Son, priced at just under a million Baht and guess what - sold out!! Again, the key - very well priced for what they were.

A lot of the people that buy in some of these more western orientated developments see their purchase as being a better deal than in the west, however, for Thailand it is very expensive but they tend to overlook that.

IMHO if property is correctly priced then it will always be a sound investment, oh yeah and BUY NOW!!!

If you are not kidding, then I sincerely feel sorry for you.

[LennyW]

Perhaps you're in the market for some prime residential development land overlooking Bang Saray?

MJP - Details..... as long as you are not trying to sell farmland at beachfront prices

[MJP]

Perhaps you're in the market for some prime residential development land overlooking Bang Saray?

MJP - Details..... as long as you are not trying to sell farmland at beachfront prices

Not too sure I'm allowed to sell it yet old chap. The 'ball and chain' will have to be consulted first. I get home next week (thank God, the UK is a miserable, desolate, burnt out husk).

It's 1.7 rai, shares a new concrete road with two other properties. I fell in love with it last year and just bought it.

I'll dig out some photos and post 'em up!

[Nouf]

Several factors play into the 'lagging indicator' bit in Thailand.

1. The Baht strengthening is going to/has reduced the purchasing power of the falang, I know this because I too build in Thailand (for own use not re-sale mind you)

2. The economic disaster spreading from the west is only just starting to reach Thailand golden shores

3. The Thai banks deny being involved with toxic SIV's, but I for one don't believe them

Property looking pretty expensive now in Thailand, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .

Another interesting point MJP.

which countries do most of the farang expats come from that end up buying condos here?

I would say it would be mostly USA, Europe and Australia and in each of those cases

their purchasing power has certainly been heavily eroded and you are indeed correct

there will be a time lag before all these things become evident here

hence the stagnation effect as untill these currencies increase there purchasing power i personally dont see alot of foreign buyers especially the UK and Australians

not with the % drop in the last 2 months

so any foreigner that wishes to sell is going to have a hard job selling imo, (unless he meets the market offers), as the expats are reluctant to purchase when he/she is expecting their currency to increase and the bhat to drop

but unless the seller is really forced i think they will probaly wade it out

so he/she has 2 choices either wait for currency appreciation against the Bhat and hope buyers return or reduce the price to the actual market forces ie when buyers are prepared to pay.

Of course them rules just dont seem to apply here in Thailand (well nothing like the US and Europe markets).

stalemate and a stand off between buyers and sellers is my guess, and the cash foreign buyer still has some power but nothing like he/she would in their own country as you dont seem to have the forced sellers where banks are fore-closing of occupants

and the fore-closure rates going up (if you do, can someone direct me to the figures i would like to see and monthly or quarterly figures or foreclosure)

Again supply and demand always rule the market place in any asset group, but at certain times markets will likely be in for periods of stalemate, similar to what the US stock markets has been doing these past 2 weeks

However i personally cant see investment potential in Thailand i think the real estate is saturated when many wanna be investors looking for ideas to gain income, and the Thai market for me doesnt seem to quite fit the bill for mid-high yield returns especially for the risk of an illiquid asset

i think there is a case for property is you want to own a condo if it suits your life style and the prices meets your requirements etc

but in the grand scheme of things we are likely heading into a period of hardship in many countries, and further bankruptcies are likely

where Thailand fits in with all this is any ones guess, trying to find information of the balance sheets of the Thai banks seems to difficult, once has to answer:

is there a Iceland potential case happening next in SE asia????

and what exposure do any SE asias investors have to any MBS or mortage debt, i cant say i have found any information out that the Thai banks are exposed to any high level debt, but then other countries are not exactly forth coming with the truth either and im sure their are many more bombs on the balance sheets of european banks

i read latvia has just taken over one of its main banks over the weekend.

so Cash IMO is still king, only we dont know whose cash will be left after this fall out is left, and to think the Thai bhat is stronger as a currency that the Euro or UK pound is amazing, but we have that at the moment it just depending how well they thai government can defend the currency if the country has any exposure to the debt that most countries seemed to of bought or if you have capital flight out of thailand

Edited November 9, 2008 by Nouf

[MJP]

Several factors play into the 'lagging indicator' bit in Thailand.

1. The Baht strengthening is going to/has reduced the purchasing power of the falang, I know this because I too build in Thailand (for own use not re-sale mind you)

2. The economic disaster spreading from the west is only just starting to reach Thailand golden shores

3. The Thai banks deny being involved with toxic SIV's, but I for one don't believe them

Property looking pretty expensive now in Thailand, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .

Another interesting point MJP.

which countries do most of the farang expats come from that end up buying condos here?

I would say it would be mostly USA, Europe and Australia and in each of those cases

their purchasing power has certainly been heavily eroded and you are indeed correct

there will be a time lag before all these things become evident here

hence the stagnation effect as untill these currencies increase there purchasing power i personally dont see alot of foreign buyers especially the UK and Australians

not with the % drop in the last 2 months

so any foreigner that wishes to sell is going to have a hard job selling imo, (unless he meets the market offers), as the expats are reluctant to purchase when he/she is expecting their currency to increase and the bhat to drop

but unless the seller is really forced i think they will probaly wade it out

so he/she has 2 choices either wait for currency appreciation against the Bhat and hope buyers return or reduce the price to the actual market forces ie when buyers are prepared to pay.

Of course them rules just dont seem to apply here in Thailand (well nothing like the US and Europe markets).

stalemate and a stand off between buyers and sellers is my guess, and the cash foreign buyer still has some power but nothing like he/she would in their own country as you dont seem to have the forced sellers where banks are fore-closing of occupants

and the fore-closure rates going up (if you do, can someone direct me to the figures i would like to see and monthly or quarterly figures or foreclosure)

Again supply and demand always rule the market place in any asset group, but at certain times markets will likely be in for periods of stalemate, similar to what the US stock markets has been doing these past 2 weeks

However i personally cant see investment potential in Thailand i think the real estate is saturated when many wanna be investors looking for ideas to gain income, and the Thai market for me doesnt seem to quite fit the bill for mid-high yield returns especially for the risk of an illiquid asset

i think there is a case for property is you want to own a condo if it suits your life style and the prices meets your requirements etc

but in the grand scheme of things we are likely heading into a period of hardship in many countries, and further bankruptcies are likely

where Thailand fits in with all this is any ones guess, trying to find information of the balance sheets of the Thai banks seems to difficult, once has to answer:

is there a Iceland potential case happening next in SE asia????

and what exposure do any SE asias investors have to any MBS or mortage debt, i cant say i have found any information out that the Thai banks are exposed to any high level debt, but then other countries are not exactly forth coming with the truth either and im sure their are many more bombs on the balance sheets of european banks

i read latvia has just taken over one of its main banks over the weekend.

so Cash IMO is still king, only we dont know whose cash will be left after this fall out is left, and to think the Thai bhat is stronger as a currency that the Euro or UK pound is amazing, but we have that at the moment it just depending how well they thai government can defend the currency if the country has any exposure to the debt that most countries seemed to of bought or if you have capital flight out of thailand

Right.

No way Thai financial services 'learnt' from 1997. Come on. These guys will be up to their necks in CDS and MBS. God knows how many tranches of CDO?

It's yet to surface in Asia, but surface it will.

Thailand has never been a place to 'invest', just a place to throw money around whilst the good times were rolling. These good times have now gone for at least a generation and I can't see anyone now really risking big money in a country where as a foreigner, in reality, you can't securely own any form of property.

That goes for companies too. Many foreign firms have been burned in Thailand, Norwich Union, Hutchinson Telecom and you can only do this so many times before the international business community gets wise to the same old tricks.

Next up is tariffs and trade. Do you really think the West is now not going to become more protectionist?

Edited November 9, 2008 by MJP

[glyph]

I guess you have the Midas touch, everything you touch turns into a muffler.

"And there is definitely no need for justification for anyone to rush into anything right now

contrary to your advice"

I never mentioned about rushing into anything. You must be confusing my post with someone else's.

[pkrv]

Thailand has never been a place to 'invest', just a place to throw money around whilst the good times were rolling. These good times have now gone for at least a generation and I can't see anyone now really risking big money in a country where as a foreigner, in reality, you can't securely own any form of property.

I have to disagree with the above you can own a freehold condominium property in your own name, and securely under Thai and International law.

As to the other arguments if the cost of a car (entry level condo in Thailand) wipes out your lifetime savings then perhaps the low cost of living in Thailand is actually a strong incentive to actually move here? With all the consequences that follow...

[MJP]

Thailand has never been a place to 'invest', just a place to throw money around whilst the good times were rolling. These good times have now gone for at least a generation and I can't see anyone now really risking big money in a country where as a foreigner, in reality, you can't securely own any form of property.

I have to disagree with the above you can own a freehold condominium property in your own name, and securely under Thai and International law.

As to the other arguments if the cost of a car (entry level condo in Thailand) wipes out your lifetime savings then perhaps the low cost of living in Thailand is actually a strong incentive to actually move here? With all the consequences that follow...

You're kidding yourself.

[pkrv]

Thailand has never been a place to 'invest', just a place to throw money around whilst the good times were rolling. These good times have now gone for at least a generation and I can't see anyone now really risking big money in a country where as a foreigner, in reality, you can't securely own any form of property.

I have to disagree with the above you can own a freehold condominium property in your own name, and securely under Thai and International law.

As to the other arguments if the cost of a car (entry level condo in Thailand) wipes out your lifetime savings then perhaps the low cost of living in Thailand is actually a strong incentive to actually move here? With all the consequences that follow...

You're kidding yourself.

Please explain how.

Is it that I cannot own a condominium complete with blue book and associated % land/communal ownership of all assets?

Or if you have no money where will you go?

[midas]

Please explain how.

Is it that I cannot own a condominium complete with blue book and associated % land/communal ownership of all assets?

Or if you have no money where will you go?

pkrv when I read what MJP posted, my interpretation was that the vast majority

of us are only ever here on visas and we all know how often the rules are changed !

There is always a possibility even if it is remote that we can be asked to leave

and you would have to leave your assets behind

We will never be considered equal here - it will always be ' them and us '

and you could never bet money on the guaranteed outcome

of a legal case involving property if it was a foreigner vs. Thai. So you can never feel

completely relaxed and safe about your property ownership as I do with mine in Sydney Australia for example.

[pkrv]

Please explain how.

Is it that I cannot own a condominium complete with blue book and associated % land/communal ownership of all assets?

Or if you have no money where will you go?

pkrv when I read what MJP posted, my interpretation was that the vast majority

of us are only ever here on visas and we all know how often the rules are changed !

There is always a possibility even if it is remote that we can be asked to leave

and you would have to leave your assets behind

We will never be considered equal here - it will always be ' them and us '

and you could never bet money on the guaranteed outcome

of a legal case involving property if it was a foreigner vs. Thai. So you can never feel

completely relaxed and safe about your property ownership as I do with mine in Sydney Australia for example.

An open post. I would be interested in MJP's rely. OK the best answser would be to ask a question. What if it was Farang/Farang owned?

[LaoPo]

Property firms bite bitter pill

By Somluck Srimalee - The Nation Published on November 4, 2008

Third quarter results likely to trail second quarter as buyers defer decision

Property firms will face hard times in the last quarter of this year as homebuyers may delay their decision to invest in residential projects beginning in the third quarter, according to research by Asia Plus Securities.

Asia Plus Securities senior executive director Therdsak Thaveeteeratham said financial results in the third quarter of propฌerty firms listed in the stock exchange will be better compared to the same period last year. However, the thirdquarter performฌance will be lower than the second quarter this year as homebuyers are delaying their decision to buy residential projects, conฌcerned about their future earnings once the global economic crisis hits Thailand's econฌomy.

According to the research by Asia Plus Securities, six of 12 property firms will announce lower net profits of between 12 per cent and 62 per cent in the third quarฌter compared to the second quarter. They include Asian Property Development, Land & Houses, LPN Development, Major Development, Property Perfect, and Supalai. Five property firms will record net profit in the third quarter between four per cent and 176 per cent higher than the second quarter. They are Sansiri, Prinsiri, MK Real Estate Development, Quality Houses, and SC Asset Corporation.

Preuksa Real Estate will maintain its net profit in the third quarter similar to that of the second quarter.

"We forecast that their net profit in the third quarter will be lower than the second quarter because almost all recorded presales in the third quarter lower than the second quarter. Meanwhile, demand for residential projects have dropped significantly, although the government may decide to extend its tax incentive deadline for property from March 28, 2009 to March 28, 2010," he said.

He added that 31 property firms, who were listed in the Stock Exchange of Thailand, had recorded presales of Bt28.12 billion in the second quarter of this year, a drop from Bt30 billion in the first quarter of this year.

The company also estimates that their presales in the third quarter will be only Bt25.8 billion, an 8percent drop from the second quarter of this year. That means the government tax incentive was not enough to woo homebuyers if they were concerned about their future earnings. This will effect financial results in the third quarter of this year and may have an impact on the last quarter of this year when the country's conฌtinuing political uncertainty and the global economic slowdown start to hit the Thai economy.

According to a survey by the Real Estate Information Centre (REIC), the Housing Developers' Sentiment Index (HDSI) in the third quarter of this year dropped 1.2 points.

The survey included 146 property develฌopers, 28 of those listed companies.

REIC directorgeneral Samma Kitsin said the survey showed that property develฌopers have concerns that the economic slowฌdown and the political turmoil will have a negative impact on homebuyers, who will delay their decision to buy new residential projects.

Following the survey, HDSI in the third quarter of this year recorded 43.8 points, lower than 45 points in the second quarter of this year.

Samma said that property developers' confidence dropped over concerns that demand in the market will drop due to homebuyers' worries about their future earnings.

However, most remain confident as conฌstruction costs have dropped following sharp declines in the prices of steel and oil.

Preuksa Real Estate president and CEO Thongma Vijitpongpun, said presales in the third quarter of this year would be lower than estimates.

"Our presales may be lower than the tarฌget of Bt20 billion if homebuyers continue to delay their decision to buy and reduce their budget to buy small residential propฌerties," he said.

Asian Property Development chief execฌutive officer Anuphong Assavabhokhin, said that the company's sales in the third quarter had recorded growth of up to 10 per cent compared with the second quarter of this year.

Property firm NC Housing had to revise its presale target from Bt1.9 billion to Bt1.5 billion to Bt1.6 billion.

"Our presales in the first eight months of this year recorded only Bt1 billion, lower than the target. As a result we have to adjust our presale target from Bt1.9 billion to between Bt1.5 billion and Bt1.6 billion. That may affect our revenue target, which will be lower than the estimated Bt1 billion at the end of this year," the company's managing director, Somchao Tanterdtham, said.

NC Housing recorded total revenue of Bt383.39 million and a net loss Bt7.53 million in the first half of this year.

-The Nation

LaoPo

[MJP]

Thailand has never been a place to 'invest', just a place to throw money around whilst the good times were rolling. These good times have now gone for at least a generation and I can't see anyone now really risking big money in a country where as a foreigner, in reality, you can't securely own any form of property.

I have to disagree with the above you can own a freehold condominium property in your own name, and securely under Thai and International law.

As to the other arguments if the cost of a car (entry level condo in Thailand) wipes out your lifetime savings then perhaps the low cost of living in Thailand is actually a strong incentive to actually move here? With all the consequences that follow...

You're kidding yourself.

Please explain how.

Is it that I cannot own a condominium complete with blue book and associated % land/communal ownership of all assets?

Or if you have no money where will you go?

Let's be honest here. As much as Thailand is a great place to SPEND money I do not believe, 1. Our 'investments' could not be wrestled from us simply by a change in the interpretation of the law let alone an actual change in the law (the Thai's may not have a word for 'retrospective'), 2. If you wanted to get a lot of money out of Thailand, which I have never tried, it's a one way street, I reckon we'd all struggle.

However, I speak from experience here, life is short, the West is in reality quite a hard and miserable experience and Thailand has actually given me a life, rather than simply being a commercial android in the UK (terrible, terrible place).

I've SPENT hundreds of thousands of POUNDS in Thailand and regret not one penny. For all I know we live once only. However, everything I've SPENT I 'mark-to-model' and the model says 'once you've spent it, it's gone'. We still enjoy the benefits of what we have bought, but in truth we're only renting.

Okay I'm probably being a little pessimistic, or rather realistic? Anything I do get back in the future will be a bonus. But if I don't, I will have no regrets.

Sorry if I came across rude there old chap, I didn't mean it. I used to think like you do, but I've seen and heard enough over the years in Thailand to know it's not the most litigiously secure environment to invest in.

Just enjoy it.

[pkrv]

Let's be honest here. As much as Thailand is a great place to SPEND money I do not believe, 1. Our 'investments' could not be wrestled from us simply by a change in the interpretation of the law let alone an actual change in the law (the Thai's may not have a word for 'retrospective'), 2. If you wanted to get a lot of money out of Thailand, which I have never tried, it's a one way street, I reckon we'd all struggle.

However, I speak from experience here, life is short, the West is in reality quite a hard and miserable experience and Thailand has actually given me a life, rather than simply being a commercial android in the UK (terrible, terrible place).

I've SPENT hundreds of thousands of POUNDS in Thailand and regret not one penny. For all I know we live once only. However, everything I've SPENT I 'mark-to-model' and the model says 'once you've spent it, it's gone'. We still enjoy the benefits of what we have bought, but in truth we're only renting.

Okay I'm probably being a little pessimistic, or rather realistic? Anything I do get back in the future will be a bonus. But if I don't, I will have no regrets.

Sorry if I came across rude there old chap, I didn't mean it. I used to think like you do, but I've seen and heard enough over the years in Thailand to know it's not the most litigiously secure environment to invest in.

Just enjoy it.

No problem. The reason things get so confused here is that house ownership and Condominium ownership issues get lumped together. There is absolutely no correlation whatsoever. Indeed even in the condominium market it really, really, depends on what you buy and where you buy. It’s all really very subjective stuff indeed.

Many of us on this forum are actually Farang/Farang and we can, and do, hold freehold condominiums. You can take out as much as you bring in for a condominium purchase (49% Farang quota) and this is done all the time (just keep the receipts and apply for the correct documentation there is loads of info on this on thaivisa). Age does come into it I will be 50 next year, retirement visa time.

Additionally I have just returned to the UK from The Park and was staggered to find the small sales unit still in operation now dealing with resales! We are seeing a 65% increase in values from launch prices. All units were fully paid for on transfer and 3 years service charges paid in advance, so no problems there.

Again its horses for courses - 30k GBP can be very significant to some posters and the 80m THB ‘The Park’ penthouses (which I don't own ) are small change to others. From a personal perspective I have done well on my initial 14.5m THB investment, and most importantly it is not actually 'an investment' except in being a home! I currently have no plans to either sell nor rent but am rapidly becoming inundated with such requests -my experiences appear to be very different to yours.

[MJP]

Let's be honest here. As much as Thailand is a great place to SPEND money I do not believe, 1. Our 'investments' could not be wrestled from us simply by a change in the interpretation of the law let alone an actual change in the law (the Thai's may not have a word for 'retrospective'), 2. If you wanted to get a lot of money out of Thailand, which I have never tried, it's a one way street, I reckon we'd all struggle.

However, I speak from experience here, life is short, the West is in reality quite a hard and miserable experience and Thailand has actually given me a life, rather than simply being a commercial android in the UK (terrible, terrible place).

I've SPENT hundreds of thousands of POUNDS in Thailand and regret not one penny. For all I know we live once only. However, everything I've SPENT I 'mark-to-model' and the model says 'once you've spent it, it's gone'. We still enjoy the benefits of what we have bought, but in truth we're only renting.

Okay I'm probably being a little pessimistic, or rather realistic? Anything I do get back in the future will be a bonus. But if I don't, I will have no regrets.

Sorry if I came across rude there old chap, I didn't mean it. I used to think like you do, but I've seen and heard enough over the years in Thailand to know it's not the most litigiously secure environment to invest in.

Just enjoy it.

No problem. The reason things get so confused here is that house ownership and Condominium ownership issues get lumped together. There is absolutely no correlation whatsoever. Indeed even in the condominium market it really, really, depends on what you buy and where you buy. It's all really very subjective stuff indeed.

Many of us on this forum are actually Farang/Farang and we can, and do, hold freehold condominiums. You can take out as much as you bring in for a condominium purchase (49% Farang quota) and this is done all the time (just keep the receipts and apply for the correct documentation there is loads of info on this on thaivisa). Age does come into it I will be 50 next year, retirement visa time.

Additionally I have just returned to the UK from The Park and was staggered to find the small sales unit still in operation now dealing with resales! We are seeing a 65% increase in values from launch prices. All units were fully paid for on transfer and 3 years service charges paid in advance, so no problems there.

Again its horses for courses - 30k GBP can be very significant to some posters and the 80m THB 'The Park' penthouses (which I don't own ) are small change to others. From a personal perspective I have done well on my initial 14.5m THB investment, and most importantly it is not actually 'an investment' except in being a home! I currently have no plans to either sell nor rent but am rapidly becoming inundated with such requests -my experiences appear to be very different to yours.

I'm 33, so a way to go yet. I do consider what I have spent an investment for my family (mainly daughter) who can own and really I think kids is all that matters. So yes, it just depends on the interpretation of the word investment.

[prefabs]

Let's be honest here. As much as Thailand is a great place to SPEND money I do not believe, 1. Our 'investments' could not be wrestled from us simply by a change in the interpretation of the law let alone an actual change in the law (the Thai's may not have a word for 'retrospective'), 2. If you wanted to get a lot of money out of Thailand, which I have never tried, it's a one way street, I reckon we'd all struggle.

However, I speak from experience here, life is short, the West is in reality quite a hard and miserable experience and Thailand has actually given me a life, rather than simply being a commercial android in the UK (terrible, terrible place).

I've SPENT hundreds of thousands of POUNDS in Thailand and regret not one penny. For all I know we live once only. However, everything I've SPENT I 'mark-to-model' and the model says 'once you've spent it, it's gone'. We still enjoy the benefits of what we have bought, but in truth we're only renting.

Okay I'm probably being a little pessimistic, or rather realistic? Anything I do get back in the future will be a bonus. But if I don't, I will have no regrets.

Sorry if I came across rude there old chap, I didn't mean it. I used to think like you do, but I've seen and heard enough over the years in Thailand to know it's not the most litigiously secure environment to invest in.

Just enjoy it.

No problem. The reason things get so confused here is that house ownership and Condominium ownership issues get lumped together. There is absolutely no correlation whatsoever. Indeed even in the condominium market it really, really, depends on what you buy and where you buy. It's all really very subjective stuff indeed.

Many of us on this forum are actually Farang/Farang and we can, and do, hold freehold condominiums. You can take out as much as you bring in for a condominium purchase (49% Farang quota) and this is done all the time (just keep the receipts and apply for the correct documentation there is loads of info on this on thaivisa). Age does come into it I will be 50 next year, retirement visa time.

Additionally I have just returned to the UK from The Park and was staggered to find the small sales unit still in operation now dealing with resales! We are seeing a 65% increase in values from launch prices. All units were fully paid for on transfer and 3 years service charges paid in advance, so no problems there.

Again its horses for courses - 30k GBP can be very significant to some posters and the 80m THB 'The Park' penthouses (which I don't own ) are small change to others. From a personal perspective I have done well on my initial 14.5m THB investment, and most importantly it is not actually 'an investment' except in being a home! I currently have no plans to either sell nor rent but am rapidly becoming inundated with such requests -my experiences appear to be very different to yours.

Is this THE Park in Pattaya which is stopped? How can someone resale a building which isn't built and is in trouble?

[pkrv]

Is this THE Park in Pattaya which is stopped? How can someone resale a building which isn't built and is in trouble?

No this is Number 1 Soi Chidlom, Bangkok 10330, just up from Central, Central's flagship store.

http://www.theparkresidence.co.th/exterior.htm

We have just had our first juristic meeting and are up and running.

Out of interest is there a web site for the Pattaya development? It crops up from time to time.

[prefabs]

Dunno about a website, but this from the Pattay Forum today

Senior Member

Group: Members

Posts: 322

Joined: 2003-08-20

From: Jomtien

Member No.: 3,771

A freind of mine who is buying a unit in the Park when to ask why there was no progress. He was told that work was suspended while they raised additional finance needed to complete the project.

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