CAT-CDMA Load Balancing Replacing Ipstar Satellite Internet

[george]

CAT-CDMA load balancing project replacing IPstar

I have had IPstar satellite internet for over 5 years, as I am outside ADSL range. First years with CS-Loxinfo's version, and the last two years with IPstar by TOT. IPstar is a real disaster and very bad and expensive. As I had to do a lot of FTP uploads I was dependant of good upload speeds, so I just kept it for some stupid reason.

A few months ago I started use my backup connection, CAT CDMA, more frequent. I used a Sierra Aircard 575 wireless card together with a D-Link DIR-450 wireless router with excellent results. I was very happy with this wireless router.

I experienced better download speeds than with my expensive Ipstar connection. Upload speed was still a bit slow, in the 100k range. But it was stable and it worked fine even while raining. I don't do so much FTP uploads these days so it doesn't matter really

Inspired by this blog post, I bought a Peplink Balance 30 Load balancer via eBay and a Cradlepoint MBR100 wireless router for a USB modem, CCU-680, and took out a an additional subscription for a CCU-680 USB modem from CAT-CDMA.

My idea was to make my Ipstar redundant, and instead only use CAT-CDMA with a Balance Router. In my work I need a very stable internet connection, I don't do so much bittorrent and downloads, much is email and surfing.

I also subscribed to the Propel Accelerator Service, which speeds up the connection a lot, even in Thailand. This service costs 44.95 USD per year (about 1,500 Baht per year) , and they have a free 7-day trial as well.

To summarize this:

I got a much faster connection to a much lower price, around 1,500 Baht/month in a location with no ADSL available. I combine these two CAT-CDMA connections with the Peplink and get a perfect connection with no interruptions.

Before I paid Ipstar a whopping 7,700+VAT = 8,239 per month

Now I pay 590 Baht per month for the CAT Sierra Aircard subsription plus 790 Baht for the new CDU-680 per month.

Still waiting for the TOT people to come and pick up their ugly Satellite dish. If they don't come I'll use it for drying wifeys plah khem fish!

Hope this review can help you guys who struggles with GPRS, EDGE, IPstar and slow ADSL. My option to do this might sound expensive, but this is not a personal cost its a company expense. Even with a single CAT-CDMA card for 10,000+ you will be better off than with IPstar.

I see now CAT-CDMA also have a new Merlin X720 PC express card for sale.

Cheers

George

PS! Return of investment is quite fast in my specific case, compared to IPstar 8,200+ baht per month:

Sierra Aircard 580: 12,900 Baht

DIR-450: 7,000 Baht

CDU-680: 10,980 Baht

Cradlepoint MBR 1000: 240 USD = 8,200 Baht

Peplink Balance 30: 400 USD = 13,600 Baht

TOTAL investment: 52,680 Baht

[monty]

Excellent post G!

Does the peplink increase upload as well? I know that with download managers you spread the multiple download sessions over the 2 connections, but is the same possible on ftp uploads?

Looking at the propel thingy right now!

Cheers...

[george]

Excellent post G!

Does the peplink increase upload as well? I know that with download managers you spread the multiple download sessions over the 2 connections, but is the same possible on ftp uploads?

Looking at the propel thingy right now!

Cheers...

In the case of FTP uploads, no. Forget it.

I haven't tested http uploads as I only use FTP for that purpose.

[unomi]

Hi George,

Thanks for the information and links,.

In the samui post you link to it states that with the cradlelink you cannot use load balancing only failover (and in the case of cdma modems, they would probably fail at the same time), is this your experience as well or?

Would be ideal if it came to support it as it would remove the need for the relatively expensive peplink.

how would you compare your dlink modem to the cradlelink?

Does the peplink increase upload as well? I know that with download managers you spread the multiple download sessions over the 2 connections, but is the same possible on ftp uploads?

If you use a ftp client like fileZilla, it will use multiple connections to upload if the remote ftp server supports concurrent logins by same user, most ftp servers will, an unfortunate example of servers that do not are godaddys.

Does anyone know where i can see a map of current cdma coverage?

[george]

The new firmware of the Cradelink router can actually support load balancing as well, example one CAT-CDMA card and one GPRS/EVDo card of choice. I have not tried this yet though (which would give me an extra ISP option, [running both CDMA and EDGE] but I guess that would be an extra problem too.)

[george]

with the cradlelink you cannot use load balancing only failover (and in the case of cdma modems, they would probably fail at the same time), is this your experience as well or?

Would be ideal if it came to support it as it would remove the need for the relatively expensive peplink.

how would you compare your dlink modem to the cradlelink?

You don't need the Peplinik, really, I just wanted to be sure that I can have best possible at my location (No ADSL). Cradelink is much better than the D-Link, cant't say why, but it's much more stable and it's a newer product.

D-Link is an old product built for the old PC card, but still very very good. The Cradle box can take both USB and an Express card modems. The D-Link can not.

Fail at same time: -->> I have never ever experienced CAT-CDMA to go down. Ever.

[dave_boo]

Good information all. It seems to put egg on the face of those who were claiming that CAT was dropping CDMA in the immediate future if they're releasing the newest data cards....

[unomi]

Good information, thanks.

No I just meant that *if* it should fail.

found this by semi random clicking on the cat site (no I dont read Thai :| )

http://www.catcdma.com/about_as/coveragearea/index.htm

Edited October 30, 2008 by unomi

[nikster]

Cool stuff! I am using the CCU-650. The only difference in the CCU-680 is that the 680 supports EV-DO Rev. A.

Could you check whether you get a Rev. A connection? It should be evident from the uplink - Rev. A has 1.8Mbit uplink speed, vs 150Kb for just plain old 1x EV-DO. Rev. A uploads should be 10x faster.

I am pretty happy with CAT CDMA, it works well most days and most places. But the uplink is really very slow so it's useless for bit torrent.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

CCU 680 is a lot faster than the 650,i have both

This is the 680, upload is a lot faster than 65, download as well

955 download [kbit/s] 517upload [kbit/s]

[kleik]

hey guys, is it possible to fund this MBR 1000 here in thailand?

thank you

[dave_boo]

hey guys, is it possible to fund this MBR 1000 here in thailand?

thank you

I have one that's for all intents and purposes brand new; just updated the firmware to 1.4 (which supports the load balancing).  Will let it go for a decent price.

One thing to note, if you don't have similar connection speeds the load balancing isn't smart enough to go 'heavy' on the high speed one and 'light' on the slower one but it rather round robins the connections....

[kleik]

I have one that's for all intents and purposes brand new; just updated the firmware to 1.4 (which supports the load balancing). Will let it go for a decent price.

One thing to note, if you don't have similar connection speeds the load balancing isn't smart enough to go 'heavy' on the high speed one and 'light' on the slower one but it rather round robins the connections....

hi,

im curently in australia i have look if they sell such rooter here but no success for the moment

so im going to order it from internet

anny advise for a trusted and cheap supplier?

thank you

Edited January 7, 2009 by kleik

[BlackJack]

where does CDMA sit on the speed scale

ie next to ADSL, IPSTAR, EDGE etc

I heard they were dropping CDMA and so would EDGE be the next alternative?

thinking of getting a phone that does the lot

[Crushdepth]

There are a number of consumer grade routers on sale in Fortune now that support load balancing. One was a Linksys 4-port VPN router, thinking about buying one of those as an experiment.

Prices were in the range 3-5,500 baht.

[dave_boo]

where does CDMA sit on the speed scale

ie next to ADSL, IPSTAR, EDGE etc

I heard they were dropping CDMA and so would EDGE be the next alternative?

thinking of getting a phone that does the lot

I can't comment on IPSTAR, but CAT's EVDO kicks the crap out of EDGE. You'll see 5x the speed with EVDO (125 kilobytes versus the 25 kilobytes of EDGE). Latency is much better also; ~300 ms (using rev.A versus the 800+ ms of EDGE. Connection on EVDO also seems more 'stable' in that it doesn't loose speed when everyone goes on the lunch break or goes home and gets on the phone. EDGE will default to GSM, which is slower than 56k dial up, while EVDO defaults to 1x RTT CDMA which is fairly comprable to EDGE. EVDO loses out on national travel though; CAT and Hutch do not have data roaming while you'll be able to go just about anywhere with EDGE/GSM.

When I was living in Samut Prakarn, in 2007, I had the 1024 package from True. Was pretty stable, but latency was higher than EVDO. Also speed was not as consistent as EVDO offers.

I don't know what is actually going to happen with mobile 3G, but considering the speed at which Thailand seems to offer new technology, I'd assume that EVDO is here for a few more years. It's my understanding that the places offering HSDPA from the GSM service providers can not even reach the speed offered by EVDO.

[kleik]

There are a number of consumer grade routers on sale in Fortune now that support load balancing. One was a Linksys 4-port VPN router, thinking about buying one of those as an experiment.

Prices were in the range 3-5,500 baht.

hi thank's for the info.

have you tryed on of those rooter you talking about now?

because im on ccu680 and i have a server so i need to do ftp - port forwarding

so it is possible with one of those?

have you a trusted weblink where i can purchase it in thailand?

thank you

" i have allready 2 bab experiences with ordering stuff from US the invoices just desaspere so if i can order from thailand would be much better for me,

im waiting for cars breaks from california now 2 month allready and nothing so... "

[kleik]

so i fund the kyocera kr2 in thailand here http://www.surfnshop.biz/index.php?lay=sho...e&Id=348101

[MattFS218]

I've been using CAT CDMA as my primary internet connection for 1.5 years now, and have also had good results.

I'm skeptical that the load balancing works out to double the speed. I think it's likely most of the effect comes from using the ccu-680 which is an EVDO Rev. A modem compared to a sierra aircard which is only a Rev 0 modem. The way EVDO works to it's maximum speed is by utilizing available airspace, and if you have 2, you are merely saturating your own signal. If however you pointed your modems at different cell towers, then I suppose it would be possible to load balance.

I use an Asus Router to connect my CCU-650 to the CAT CDMA...it's a lot cheaper than the cradlepoint, if you understand linux. It's also available in Thailand.

[MattFS218]

The Asus routers can be flashed to load balance also, so really all you need is 1 Asus router with 2 USB ports (or a USB hub)

CAT downloads via HTTP are really fast compared to SSH and FTP downloads, so if you want to download something fast, use http. I have a server in the states, download my torrents there, and then http (with resume) them with a download manager. I easily pull 130kB/sec from the US....and I'm 8 km from the base station w/o line of sight (but I have an amp).

[kleik]

The Asus routers can be flashed to load balance also, so really all you need is 1 Asus router with 2 USB ports (or a USB hub)

CAT downloads via HTTP are really fast compared to SSH and FTP downloads, so if you want to download something fast, use http. I have a server in the states, download my torrents there, and then http (with resume) them with a download manager. I easily pull 130kB/sec from the US....and I'm 8 km from the base station w/o line of sight (but I have an amp).

hi thank's for the info,

can you tell me exactely the references of your asus routers and where you have buy it

thank you

[MattFS218]

hi thank's for the info,

can you tell me exactely the references of your asus routers and where you have buy it

thank you

I have a wl500-gpv2, but any of the Asus routers with a USB port can be flashed with a different firmware. I don't do load balancing, but use the koppel firmware which is based on the asus firmware. But if I had an hour or two to play around with it, I would flash using OpenWRT. OpenWRT has load balancing modules you can compile in. I purchased the router from the States, but I know the routers are available here also. It was only $60 after rebate from the states.

But if you haven't worked with linux before, you will need some help.

[MattFS218]

if you want to load balance, it's best to buy 1 cat cdma modem, then 1 EDGE modem with dtac, then you won't saturate your cat cdma connection. Or you could buy 2 directional antennas, and point your 2 cdma connections to your nearest 2 towers...but yagi antennas are like $100.

[MJo]

I can't comment on IPSTAR, but CAT's EVDO kicks the crap out of EDGE. You'll see 5x the speed with EVDO (125 kilobytes versus the 25 kilobytes of EDGE). Latency is much better also; ~300 ms (using rev.A versus the 800+ ms of EDGE. Connection on EVDO also seems more 'stable' in that it doesn't loose speed when everyone goes on the lunch break or goes home and gets on the phone. EDGE will default to GSM, which is slower than 56k dial up, while EVDO defaults to 1x RTT CDMA which is fairly comprable to EDGE. EVDO loses out on national travel though; CAT and Hutch do not have data roaming while you'll be able to go just about anywhere with EDGE/GSM.

When I was living in Samut Prakarn, in 2007, I had the 1024 package from True. Was pretty stable, but latency was higher than EVDO. Also speed was not as consistent as EVDO offers.

I don't know what is actually going to happen with mobile 3G, but considering the speed at which Thailand seems to offer new technology, I'd assume that EVDO is here for a few more years. It's my understanding that the places offering HSDPA from the GSM service providers can not even reach the speed offered by EVDO.

No one knows when they are going to issue 3G licences. However there was some plans to use the frequency of present CDMA network for 3G but who knows. At the moment all the operators are pretty much waiting if the 3G licences are out later this year as they have been promised again. IMHO it would be wise for Thailand to skip the whole 3G and go directly for next generation LTE technology. Some countries in Europe are already rolling them out.

I would also assume EVDO will be around for a while. Only if and when there is good enough HSPA coverage (or something else) operational with large number of users it comes too expensive to maintain two systems and this is years away in more remote areas. Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket will be the first to get usable HSPA. My wild guess is one to two years after the licences are released.

HSDPA support down-link speeds of 1.8, 3.6, 7.2 and 14.4 Mbit/s. Further speed increases are available with HSPA+ which provides speeds of up to 42 Mbit/s downlink. Most common nowdays is 7.2Mbit/s i believe. (shared among users in one cell so theoretical speed)

EVDO Rev A seems to have 3.1 Mbit/s downlink (also shared so theoretical). Rev B is on the way and will increase dowlink speed to 4.9 Mbit/s.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Do...note-gsmworld-0

So EVDO is there between 2G GPRS/EDGE and 3.5G HSPA. However the speeds are theoretical in both systems so in normal internet and email use you propably don't see much difference between HSPA and EVDO. All depends on how many users in your area connected same time as you...

[kleik]

I have a wl500-gpv2, but any of the Asus routers with a USB port can be flashed with a different firmware. I don't do load balancing, but use the koppel firmware which is based on the asus firmware. But if I had an hour or two to play around with it, I would flash using OpenWRT. OpenWRT has load balancing modules you can compile in. I purchased the router from the States, but I know the routers are available here also. It was only $60 after rebate from the states.

But if you haven't worked with linux before, you will need some help.

hi, thank's alot for the quick reply, im busy for the 2 next days i will look more about thomorow night

bye

[MattFS218]

No one knows when they are going to issue 3G licences. However there was some plans to use the frequency of present CDMA network for 3G but who knows. At the moment all the operators are pretty much waiting if the 3G licences are out later this year as they have been promised again. IMHO it would be wise for Thailand to skip the whole 3G and go directly for next generation LTE technology. Some countries in Europe are already rolling them out.

I would also assume EVDO will be around for a while. Only if and when there is good enough HSPA coverage (or something else) operational with large number of users it comes too expensive to maintain two systems and this is years away in more remote areas. Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket will be the first to get usable HSPA. My wild guess is one to two years after the licences are released.

HSDPA support down-link speeds of 1.8, 3.6, 7.2 and 14.4 Mbit/s. Further speed increases are available with HSPA+ which provides speeds of up to 42 Mbit/s downlink. Most common nowdays is 7.2Mbit/s i believe. (shared among users in one cell so theoretical speed)

EVDO Rev A seems to have 3.1 Mbit/s downlink (also shared so theoretical). Rev B is on the way and will increase dowlink speed to 4.9 Mbit/s.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Do...note-gsmworld-0

So EVDO is there between 2G GPRS/EDGE and 3.5G HSPA. However the speeds are theoretical in both systems so in normal internet and email use you propably don't see much difference between HSPA and EVDO. All depends on how many users in your area connected same time as you...

I'm not an expert, but I think EVDO is usually classified as a 3G technology. There won't be airspace issues, as Thailanad has plenty of open frequencies available. But the easy way around that is to simply put up more base stations. Think NY (with the US military owning big chunks of underutilized frequencies), Think Isan.

I've worked for IT companies that do some upper level stuff, and I'd question if you can effectively load balance a single user connection with 2 independent internet links. It's easy to do with >=2 users, but many websites will throw errors if you try accessing it by different external IP addresses. Of course there's no way to load balance a single FTP connection. Ie, theoretically you would see an improvement if you have 2 different FTP sessions running simultaneously, but there is no way to make 1 FTP connection use 2 outbound connections without modifications on your ISP's router (which CAT does not do). Similarly visiting a single web page usually is accomplished with 1 outbound socket, and this cannot be "split" or load balanced. It's possible that propel service you mentioned might be able to do it, but the tech docs on it are lacking and it wasn't apparent that they do..

use HTTP when you can with CAT. When I SCP (secure ftp out) I get about 10kB/s, but when using http I pull 100kB/s+ (or 800 kbps)

hope this saves someone some money

--matt

Edited February 12, 2009 by MattFS218

[BlackJack]

G

i thought CDMA was being stopped

or is in the process

this maybe why you get such a good through put as you maybe the only user

i too am in an area with no phone lines and have just junked IPSTAR TOT

Now I am looking at the edge connection

not as fast but stable enough to do most things including skype

regards

CAT-CDMA load balancing project replacing IPstar

I have had IPstar satellite internet for over 5 years, as I am outside ADSL range. First years with CS-Loxinfo's version, and the last two years with IPstar by TOT. IPstar is a real disaster and very bad and expensive. As I had to do a lot of FTP uploads I was dependant of good upload speeds, so I just kept it for some stupid reason.

A few months ago I started use my backup connection, CAT CDMA, more frequent. I used a Sierra Aircard 575 wireless card together with a D-Link DIR-450 wireless router with excellent results. I was very happy with this wireless router.

I experienced better download speeds than with my expensive Ipstar connection. Upload speed was still a bit slow, in the 100k range. But it was stable and it worked fine even while raining. I don't do so much FTP uploads these days so it doesn't matter really

Inspired by this blog post, I bought a Peplink Balance 30 Load balancer via eBay and a Cradlepoint MBR100 wireless router for a USB modem, CCU-680, and took out a an additional subscription for a CCU-680 USB modem from CAT-CDMA.

My idea was to make my Ipstar redundant, and instead only use CAT-CDMA with a Balance Router. In my work I need a very stable internet connection, I don't do so much bittorrent and downloads, much is email and surfing.

I also subscribed to the Propel Accelerator Service, which speeds up the connection a lot, even in Thailand. This service costs 44.95 USD per year (about 1,500 Baht per year) , and they have a free 7-day trial as well.

To summarize this:

I got a much faster connection to a much lower price, around 1,500 Baht/month in a location with no ADSL available. I combine these two CAT-CDMA connections with the Peplink and get a perfect connection with no interruptions.

Before I paid Ipstar a whopping 7,700+VAT = 8,239 per month

Now I pay 590 Baht per month for the CAT Sierra Aircard subsription plus 790 Baht for the new CDU-680 per month.

Still waiting for the TOT people to come and pick up their ugly Satellite dish. If they don't come I'll use it for drying wifeys plah khem fish!

Hope this review can help you guys who struggles with GPRS, EDGE, IPstar and slow ADSL. My option to do this might sound expensive, but this is not a personal cost its a company expense. Even with a single CAT-CDMA card for 10,000+ you will be better off than with IPstar.

I see now CAT-CDMA also have a new Merlin X720 PC express card for sale.

Cheers

George

PS! Return of investment is quite fast in my specific case, compared to IPstar 8,200+ baht per month:

Sierra Aircard 580: 12,900 Baht

DIR-450: 7,000 Baht

CDU-680: 10,980 Baht

Cradlepoint MBR 1000: 240 USD = 8,200 Baht

Peplink Balance 30: 400 USD = 13,600 Baht

TOTAL investment: 52,680 Baht

[MJo]

I'm not an expert, but I think EVDO is usually classified as a 3G technology. There won't be airspace issues, as Thailanad has plenty of open frequencies available. But the easy way around that is to simply put up more base stations. Think NY (with the US military owning big chunks of underutilized frequencies), Think Isan.

Correct, EVDO Rev A is slower than 3.5G (HSPA) but actually much better than just 3G (UMTS aka WCDMA). Just based on bit different technology/standard.

Number of base stations is usually stipulated by network coverage. When you have enough base stations to cover the area then just increase capasity in those stations as needed for additional users.

Below is the list what's out there now and coming in next couple of years. LTE will provide "proper" connections once available Deployment ongoing in some european countries already and rumours are that Japan will be the first one to start in Asia. Possibly they have something up and running within a year or so...

Mobile telephone interfaces

Note that the values given are maximum values, and actual values may be slower under certain conditions (for example, noise). Where two values are listed, the first value is the downstream rate and the second value is the upstream rate.

GSM CSD 14.4 kbit/s 1.8 kB/s

HSCSD 57.6/14.4 kbit/s 5.4/1.8 kB/s

GPRS 57.6/28.8 kbit/s 7.2/3.6 kB/s

WiDEN 100 kbit/s 12.5 kB/s

CDMA2000 1xRTT 153 kbit/s 18 kB/s

EDGE (type 1 MS) 236.8 kbit/s 29.6 kB/s

UMTS 384 kbit/s 48 kB/s

EDGE (type 2 MS) 473.6 kbit/s 59.2 kB/s

EDGE Evolution (type 1 MS) 1,184/474 kbit/s 148/59 kB/s

EDGE Evolution (type 2 MS) 1,894/947 kbit/s 237/118 kB/s

1xEV-DO Rev. 0 2,457/153 kbit/s 307.2/19 kB/s

1xEV-DO Rev. A 3,100/1,800 kbit/s 397/230 kB/s

3xEV-DO Rev. B 9,300/5,400 kbit/s 1,162/675 kB/s

HSDPA/HSUPA 14,400/5760 kbit/s 1,800/720 kB/s

4xEV-DO Enhancements (2X2 MIMO) 34,400/12,400 kbit/s 4,300/1,550 kB/s

HSPA+ (2X2 MIMO) 42,000/11,500 kbit/s 5,250/1,437 kB/s

15xEV-DO Rev. B 73,500/27,000 kbit/s 9,200/3,375 kB/s

UMB (2X2 MIMO) 140,000/34,000 kbit/s 17,500/4,250 kB/s

LTE (2X2 MIMO) 173,000/58,000 kbit/s 21,625/7,250 kB/s

UMB (4X4 MIMO) 280,000/68,000 kbit/s 35,000/8,500 kB/s

EV-DO Rev. C 280,000/75,000 kbit/s 35,000/9,000 kB/s

LTE (4X4 MIMO) 326,000/86,000 kbit/s 40,750/10,750 kB/s

[kleik]

hi MattFS218,

i have look further about the asus wl500g premium v2 interesting and not to expensive i dont have to use load balancing, i just want a router to do port forwarding and ftp.

so can you confirm me this model is working with the c-mothec ccu 680 usb modem

if your answer is yes, im going to order one

thank you

[MattFS218]

hi MattFS218,

i have look further about the asus wl500g premium v2 interesting and not to expensive i dont have to use load balancing, i just want a router to do port forwarding and ftp.

so can you confirm me this model is working with the c-mothec ccu 680 usb modem

if your answer is yes, im going to order one

thank you

I cannot 100% confirm to you that the ccu-680 works (I use the ccu-650, the older Rev. 0 Model). But they use standard modem AT commands to communicate with the USB modem. But if you can find an article confirming the ccu-680 works in linux, then you should be OK. I'm a computer geek, and it took me the better part of a day to get the router's firmware flashed, and setup with the ccu-650. I'm not sure Cradlepoint offers full support for the ccu-680 either..

--matt