Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

[jdinasia]

^^ No progress whatsoever, its just making an example of one person. (Unless its 30 years for every miscreant in Thailand). Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

However as we're now rewriting the penal code, why not death sentences for all the Shinawatra clan and their family pets ? That'll learn 'em.

Agreed, how about the death sentance for any Thai politician who has ever had their hand in the till....postdated of course. That'll learn 'em. Mind you...wouldn't be many left after such a cull ?

Hmmm if we only do that for those convicted of it (particularly article 100) that would be a good start! In line with how the Chinese deal with senior officials caught in corruption.

[Bangyai]

Why do you think that what NBT tells is the truth, Koo?

Their show, Truth Today, has "truth" in its title.

Well spotted SJ !!!

[sriracha john]

Thaksin call fails to sway critics

Reference to royal mercy seen as 'presumptuous, disrespectful'

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said there were no plans to petition for a royal pardon for the ex-premier. There might be a misunderstanding because Thaksin did not mention seeking amnesty, he said.

Just when will, if ever, Pongthep clearly explain what Thaksin DID mean by...

"ไม่มีใครที่จะเอาผมกลับประเทศไทยได้หรอก นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน จริงไหมครับ" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี กล่าว

Matichon.

Supposedly this is the Thai version which I would translate as meaning HM the King rather than Royal and as saying "if not the King's pardon then the power of the people".

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Er...perhaps , but not in this instance. More like you and the press jumping the gun. His

actual words did not request a pardon.

This is all just silly spin.

Of course, this is a forum of opinion, and you have yours like everyone else but in this case your opinion does not represent fact.

Did the press and myself actually jump the gun? If so, it certainly appears to be universally reported that that was the nature of his words. So much so that his spokesman felt obligated to come out and deny all these multi-sourced reports that that was the intent of his words.

Of course, in doing so he has completely neglected to inform the public of precisely what Thaksin DID intend to mean with his words...

Still, I'll leave it up to you to translate the above quote if you think it was different than what cmsally says it meant.

[sriracha john]

Why do you think that what NBT tells is the truth, Koo?

Their show, Truth Today, has "truth" in its title.

Well spotted SJ !!!

yep... and that's all the reason that some people seem to need to believe it's the truth.

[Bangyai]

Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

That is absolutely not true. The government is now under a lot more scrutiny than ever, it's nearly impossible to hide anything as there are informants ready to pass any juicy information to both sides, yet the number of scandals has been very very low for the past two years.

During this year one big questionable project, buses for Bangkok, was completley scrapped, and there are only two more potential scams in the making - price fixing for rice and longan and corn. There was a lot of pressure on rice policy and it has been significantly trimmed, and longan/corn deal might not even realise.

In Thaksin days it was a scandal a day, like a clock.

There is some truth in this but the corruption is still there albeit at a lower level. Clearly people are going to have to be very careful about covering their tracks in future. Sadly, corruption has many faces. You stamp it out at one level and it pops up at another. If you look at Thaksins extra judicial killings of drug dealers you can see that although it had an impact there were still those for whom the lure of easy money was and is worth the risk.

When I arrived in Thailand a long time ago, graft was the order of the day. Always has been and is likely to remain so. The difference is Thailands GDP which is obviously a lot higher now than it was 30 years ago and affords much richer pickings. Where there's a will there's a way.

I'm really sympathetic to your attempts to paint it as a bad and dangerous thing, but at least the basic agreement that corruption has been reduced is there. Thx.

Actually Plus, anyone would have to admit that the PADS activities have definatley made it more difficult for corruption on a large scale to happen...at least for now. This has been a useful achievment of the PAD and I hope it lasts. Since they have had some success with this wouldn't it be nice if they started having a go at the patronage system as well.....which is just a kind of ' jobs for the boys ' corruption.

[Journalist]

How can anyone be a 'Dictator' in Thailand without the support of....

Military

Monarchy

Urban intelligensia

Courts

What a confusing question!

First of all, dictators don't need support, they need control to stay in power, that's why they are dictators.

- Thaksin's cousin was made Army Chief in those days and promoted his boys above everyone else.

- We can't talk about support from monarchy, but Thaksin's desire to get a foot in those doors was not very well hidden.

- I can't even begin to understand why support of the urban intelligensia's is needed to be a dictator. They are usually the first ones against the wall when new dictators come, and first ones on the barricades when it's time for dictators to go.

- courts is only one part of judicial branch, Thaksin had complete control over police and prosecution, there were no cases for courts to consider to begin with, and only a few courts dared to take up cases against his administration, notably Administrative Court. When the question of Shin sale came up - the courts simply refused to consider it, and so people took to the streets s there was not a single venue for seeking justice left in the country.

Because to be a successful wannabe Dictator, you have to have a party apparatus, a wide ranging organisation and broad buy-in from key elements. Thats what gets the control.

Yes, you need the urban buy-in. (eg European dictators were bank-rolled by urban bourgeois middle classes and entrepreneurs and clever persuasive propaganda accounted for the rest)...... Unless you're the Khmer Rouge and simply annilhilate them all ! That seldom happens. Most one party states are appreciated or tolerated by their middle classes - as long as they deliver economically (and there's plenty of examples of that today from Japan to Singapore to the Middle East).

Yes, there is one despot at the top; one megalomaniac on a pulpit ranting away, but he can't do it alone.

And Thaksin, to an extent did have support. Yes he had the Police, the access to funding, for the most part he had the local media, and most most importantly - he had a provincial branch network the likes of which no party in Thailand has ever made the effort to set up before him.

But he didn't have the tacit support of those other four elements.

He still has the branch network chuntering away and stimulating popular appeal. Thats why he still pops up at football stadiums. Thats why he can still pull off election 'wins' and thats why he isn't going to vanish from your screens for a long time !

Edited November 3, 2008 by Journalist

[clausewitz]

Are you suggesting we should be taking note of these comic rags and their ill thought out opinions?

Until everybody realises that ASTV is the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet there will never be peace.

Why should we listen when we can clap our little clappers to drown out anything we don't like to hear.

Hmm you have a point, I think I will cut off my subs to Time and the Wal street Journal and tune in to ASTV everyday.

[brahmburgers]

"I have received a two year sentence. Charges were made against my family and even my secretary was not excluded. My family was left shattered…but my troubles are minor when compared to yours. I can bear it, but the country will be in ruins," he said.

Anybody see him setting up for a giant "I told you so" when Thailand sees its share of the 2008-2010 global recession?

"If only I'd still been PM, we'd have escaped sharing the same fate as the other 200 countries in the world."

As if there aren't enough ironies already, recall that Thaksin has repeatedly stated, starting right after the coup "I'm out of politics" .....or words to that effect.

Somchai the driveler really dropped the ball when he allowed Thaksin to address the crowd. How many convicted felons get to address a stadium crowd (and keep their diplomatic passport, and evade justice, and smuggle billions of dollars of valuables out of the country, etc. etc)?

Best of all, would be if Thaksin faded to obscurity, but sadly, that's not going to happen - not from many Thai peoples' perspective, anyway. And certainly not if the PM allows Thaksin impunity to stir up problems.

Thaksin implies that, if his personal troubles aren't cleared up (i.e. royal pardon or public uprising), then "the country will be in ruin." Sounds serious. Put a gag on that man - and start looking for decent leaders for Thailand.

[Bangyai]

Thaksin call fails to sway critics

Reference to royal mercy seen as 'presumptuous, disrespectful'

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said there were no plans to petition for a royal pardon for the ex-premier. There might be a misunderstanding because Thaksin did not mention seeking amnesty, he said.

Just when will, if ever, Pongthep clearly explain what Thaksin DID mean by...

"ไม่มีใครที่จะเอาผมกลับประเทศไทยได้หรอก นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน จริงไหมครับ" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี กล่าว

Matichon.

Supposedly this is the Thai version which I would translate as meaning HM the King rather than Royal and as saying "if not the King's pardon then the power of the people".

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Er...perhaps , but not in this instance. More like you and the press jumping the gun. His

actual words did not request a pardon.

This is all just silly spin.

Of course, this is a forum of opinion, and you have yours like everyone else but in this case your opinion does not represent fact.

Did the press and myself actually jump the gun? If so, it certainly appears to be universally reported that that was the nature of his words. So much so that his spokesman felt obligated to come out and deny all these multi-sourced reports that that was the intent of his words.

Of course, in doing so he has completely neglected to inform the public of precisely what Thaksin DID intend to mean with his words...

Still, I'll leave it up to you to translate the above quote if you think it was different than what cmsally says it meant.

There you have it ,' appears' you say and ' the nature of his words " ...not his words. It was indeed reported by some of the press as ' his words ' ( they do love a bit of spin ) necessitating his spokesman coming out and denying the fact. As for the translation I can put it into a text thats easier to read if it helps.

My mee kry tee ja ow pom glap pratet Thai dai lok , nok jag prabahn mee tee ja song mee prametadta ,reu my gor palang kong pee nong prachachon took tahn. Jing my krap ? adeet nai yok ratamondtri glaow

Hope that helps. Think about it. He was pre informed that everything he said was going to be gone through with a fine comb by all and sundry. This was not an impromptu speach but something prepared beforehand. He knew he had to be careful. If he really had said anything of note people would have been saved the bother of spin.

Once again, I am pointing this out in the interests of factuality.

[Los78]

Are you suggesting we should be taking note of these comic rags and their ill thought out opinions?

Until everybody realises that ASTV is the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet there will never be peace.

Why should we listen when we can clap our little clappers to drown out anything we don't like to hear.

Hmm you have a point, I think I will cut off my subs to Time and the Wal street Journal and tune in to ASTV everyday.

Hahaha "the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet" Wow what a claim.... Are you serious? Well I better tune in for the Hitler style speeches. There is nothing like screaming grandpas shouting out bad language about the government and a bunch of grandmas dancing away.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin call fails to sway critics

Reference to royal mercy seen as 'presumptuous, disrespectful'

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said there were no plans to petition for a royal pardon for the ex-premier. There might be a misunderstanding because Thaksin did not mention seeking amnesty, he said.

Just when will, if ever, Pongthep clearly explain what Thaksin DID mean by...

"ไม่มีใครที่จะเอาผมกลับประเทศไทยได้หรอก นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน จริงไหมครับ" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี กล่าว

Matichon.

Supposedly this is the Thai version which I would translate as meaning HM the King rather than Royal and as saying "if not the King's pardon then the power of the people".

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Er...perhaps , but not in this instance. More like you and the press jumping the gun. His

actual words did not request a pardon.

This is all just silly spin.

Of course, this is a forum of opinion, and you have yours like everyone else but in this case your opinion does not represent fact.

Did the press and myself actually jump the gun? If so, it certainly appears to be universally reported that that was the nature of his words. So much so that his spokesman felt obligated to come out and deny all these multi-sourced reports that that was the intent of his words.

Of course, in doing so he has completely neglected to inform the public of precisely what Thaksin DID intend to mean with his words...

Still, I'll leave it up to you to translate the above quote if you think it was different than what cmsally says it meant.

There you have it ,' appears' you say and ' the nature of his words " ...not his words. It was indeed reported by some of the press as ' his words ' ( they do love a bit of spin ) necessitating his spokesman coming out and denying the fact. As for the translation I can put it into a text thats easier to read if it helps.

My mee kry tee ja ow pom glap pratet Thai dai lok , nok jag prabahn mee tee ja song mee prametadta ,reu my gor palang kong pee nong prachachon took tahn. Jing my krap ? adeet nai yok ratamondtri glaow

Hope that helps. Think about it. He was pre informed that everything he said was going to be gone through with a fine comb by all and sundry. This was not an impromptu speach but something prepared beforehand. He knew he had to be careful. If he really had said anything of note people would have been saved the bother of spin.

Once again, I am pointing this out in the interests of factuality.

The number of his public speaking gaffs, both prepared and impromptu, are numerous.

This is yet another one... as he apparently never learned from the previous ones.

The sure fire way to avoid any mistranslations or misperceptions of his actual words is to avoid any mention whatsoever of His Majesty the King from his speech. He didn't do that. He instead tried to gamble on getting it in and of course, it didn't go unnoticed and became one of the main focus of reports on his speech.

He's not "crafty" as tod-daniels called his tactics... he was disrespectful and it blew up in his face.

[animatic]

Are you suggesting we should be taking note of these comic rags and their ill thought out opinions?

Until everybody realises that ASTV is the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet there will never be peace.

Why should we listen when we can clap our little clappers to drown out anything we don't like to hear.

Hmm you have a point, I think I will cut off my subs to Time and the Wal street Journal and tune in to ASTV everyday.

Hahaha "the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet" Wow what a claim.... Are you serious? Well I better tune in for the Hitler style speeches. There is nothing like screaming grandpas shouting out bad language about the government and a bunch of grandmas dancing away.

LOS, you don't do sarcasm well do you...?

[sriracha john]

Since his own Personal Spokesman has done such a horrendous job of trying to explain away Thaksin's words, he has the People Power Party Spokesman take a stab at it... but then again, just why is a current political party spokesman speaking for a banned, un-incarcerated, convicted fugitive???

Ruling PPP: No intent to help ousted prime minister Thaksin

BANGKOK, Nov 3 (TNA) - Thailand's ruling People Power Party (PPP) has no plan to request a royal pardon for the country's convicted, ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra so that he might avoid facing the consequences of his two-year jail conviction and sentence for his role in relation to a Bangkok land purchase case, acting PPP Spokesman said Monday.

Kudep Saikrachang said he himself disagreed with the idea to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin, now living with his wife and children in Britain.

"It is up to individual members of Parliament to decide," Kuthep said. And then he proceeded to give detailed instructions on how such individual MPs could effect an act of Parliament to bring about such a pardon. *we're not intending to do it, but if you want to know how to do it, this is how you do it*

A draft bill must be prepared and then forwarded to Parliament for its consideration if a royal pardon is to be sought, Kuthep said, adding that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had said it is up to each MP to decide. Requesting a royal pardon must also take timing into consideration.

"The Party (PPP) hasn't yet decided to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin as the prevailing situation (in the country) must also be taken into consideration. It's impossible to do things for just one person," said Kudep.

Edited November 3, 2008 by sriracha john

[Bangyai]

Thaksin call fails to sway critics

Reference to royal mercy seen as 'presumptuous, disrespectful'

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said there were no plans to petition for a royal pardon for the ex-premier. There might be a misunderstanding because Thaksin did not mention seeking amnesty, he said.

Just when will, if ever, Pongthep clearly explain what Thaksin DID mean by...

"ไม่มีใครที่จะเอาผมกลับประเทศไทยได้หรอก นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน จริงไหมครับ" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี กล่าว

Matichon.

Supposedly this is the Thai version which I would translate as meaning HM the King rather than Royal and as saying "if not the King's pardon then the power of the people".

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Er...perhaps , but not in this instance. More like you and the press jumping the gun. His

actual words did not request a pardon.

This is all just silly spin.

Of course, this is a forum of opinion, and you have yours like everyone else but in this case your opinion does not represent fact.

Did the press and myself actually jump the gun? If so, it certainly appears to be universally reported that that was the nature of his words. So much so that his spokesman felt obligated to come out and deny all these multi-sourced reports that that was the intent of his words.

Of course, in doing so he has completely neglected to inform the public of precisely what Thaksin DID intend to mean with his words...

Still, I'll leave it up to you to translate the above quote if you think it was different than what cmsally says it meant.

There you have it ,' appears' you say and ' the nature of his words " ...not his words. It was indeed reported by some of the press as ' his words ' ( they do love a bit of spin ) necessitating his spokesman coming out and denying the fact. As for the translation I can put it into a text thats easier to read if it helps.

My mee kry tee ja ow pom glap pratet Thai dai lok , nok jag prabahn mee tee ja song mee prametadta ,reu my gor palang kong pee nong prachachon took tahn. Jing my krap ? adeet nai yok ratamondtri glaow

Hope that helps. Think about it. He was pre informed that everything he said was going to be gone through with a fine comb by all and sundry. This was not an impromptu speach but something prepared beforehand. He knew he had to be careful. If he really had said anything of note people would have been saved the bother of spin.

Once again, I am pointing this out in the interests of factuality.

The number of his public speaking gaffs, both prepared and impromptu, are numerous.

This is yet another one... as he apparently never learned from the previous ones.

The sure fire way to avoid any mistranslations or misperceptions of his actual words is to avoid any mention whatsoever of His Majesty the King from his speech. He didn't do that. He instead tried to gamble on getting it in and of course, it didn't go unnoticed and became one of the main focus of reports on his speech.

He's not "crafty" as tod-daniels called his tactics... he was disrespectful and it blew up in his face.

Quite so, but in a few days from now it is likely that the ' close scrutiny ' of his speach will fade away with no real action being taken. As for being disrespectful, in view of the LM laws, almost anything can be and has been construed as such. But not everyone who waves a yellow flag is a patriot either. Before the last coup, the PAD were warned not to use His Majesty the Kings name in their speeches. This was deemed as disrespectful.

As to whether Thaksin will ever request a Royal Pardon, only time will tell but it does not look likely at the moment. In any event, I'm on holiday for a couple of days starting proongnee and I don't think I'll be bumping into the Thaksins on the beach.

[yumidesign]

Thaksin says coup deprived country of workaholic PM

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra told his supporters at the Rajamangala Stadium that the 2006 coup had fired a workaholic PM like him.

Addressing his supporters through a phone call Saturday night, Thaksin said the coup instead got a retire-age man to run the country.

Source: The Nation - 01 November 2008[/i)

see it just goes to show if you work really hard you too could become a billionaire, even if you start off as a simple policeman, but hang on why are most of the country dirt poor

[Journalist]

Since his own Personal Spokesman has done such a horrendous job of trying to explain away Thaksin's words, he has the People Power Party Spokesman take a stab at it... but then again, just why is a current political party spokesman speaking for a banned, un-incarcerated, convicted fugitive???

Ruling PPP: No intent to help ousted prime minister Thaksin

BANGKOK, Nov 3 (TNA) - Thailand's ruling People Power Party (PPP) has no plan to request a royal pardon for the country's convicted, ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra so that he might avoid facing the consequences of his two-year jail conviction and sentence for his role in relation to a Bangkok land purchase case, acting PPP Spokesman said Monday.

Kudep Saikrachang said he himself disagreed with the idea to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin, now living with his wife and children in Britain.

"It is up to individual members of Parliament to decide," Kuthep said. And then he proceeded to give detailed instructions on how such individual MPs could effect an act of Parliament to bring about such a pardon. *we're not intending to do it, but if you want to know how to do it, this is how you do it*

A draft bill must be prepared and then forwarded to Parliament for its consideration if a royal pardon is to be sought, Kuthep said, adding that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had said it is up to each MP to decide. Requesting a royal pardon must also take timing into consideration.

"The Party (PPP) hasn't yet decided to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin as the prevailing situation (in the country) must also be taken into consideration. It's impossible to do things for just one person," said Kudep.

Did Kuthep say the words you've highlighted in red, or are they your comments?

I assume the latter rather than a quote !

Make it a lot easier for readers if your excellent job of sourcing articles and your intuitive insight into the psyche of the subjects of those article are delineated clearly, ......perhaps by putting <SR.J> after an editorial inclusion.

[Tod]

Which nicely balances the Pro-goverrnment STATIONS

that also deliver much wrong information.

ying-yang, left-right, up-down, good-bad.

Can't have one without the other.

I prefer the NBT. They tell the truth with evidence in a calm manner, unlike the ASTV.

NBT are so unbaised they bend over and take it while trying not to make PAD seem like idiots (very ahrd to do). But this is not enough for the PAD crazies, by their bizaree outlook if you are not advcoating the overthrow of the government you must be evil.

If NBT put things as truthfully as the world;s media they would be condemned by the bulk of the press in Thailand:

here are some quotes from world media:

CNN

http://inthefield.blogs.cnn.com/tag/dan-rivers/

they[PAD] want nothing less than the overthrow of the entire political system. Their argument goes something like this: the vast majority of voters are poor, uneducated farmers who are susceptible to corruption by Thaksin and his allies, therefore we should abandon democracy to prevent this corruption

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/democracy/news/a...jectid=10531139

But the PAD has nothing to do with democracy. In fact, it claims that the ballot box gives too much weight to the ill-educated rural poor, whose votes can easily be "bought" (that is, won) with promises of government largesse.

The so-called People's Alliance for Democracy proposes an audaciously undemocratic "new politics" whereby most members of parliament would be appointed. Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue, Geneva

The insurgents still style themselves as the "People's Alliance for Democracy," but this time some of their leaders are explicit in calling for just the opposite: the restoration of a full monarchy or a military-backed autocracy. Washington Post

What his [samak's] opponents, who come under the misleading banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), want is a mandate on demand, by theft. Straits Times

Even though the PAD's very name includes the word democracy, many of its supporters are skeptical of electoral politics. Time

The rebel groups are trying to roll back the results of last December's general elections and reinstall rule by an urban elite traditionally backed by the Thai armed forces. Irish Times

An alliance of street protesters and a reactionary elite. Financial Times

The latest ideologue [sondhi] who promises to fix their country's democracy by -- once again -- breaking it. Wall Street Journal

What the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) did on August 26 … was a putsch. La Stampa

Authoritarian rabble … the woefully misnamed People's Alliance for Democracy … a gruesome bunch of reactionary businessmen, generals and aristocrats. Economist

The PAD leadership is no collection of spotless democrats. The Independent (London)

The group's name appears to be a misnomer as it is neither populist nor does it want representative democracy. Al-Jazeera

That is pretty unanimous.

Are you suggesting we should be taking note of these comic rags and their ill thought out opinions?

Until everybody realises that ASTV is the only organ of truth and righteousness on the planet there will never be peace.

Why should we listen when we can clap our little clappers to drown out anything we don't like to hear.

Yes, I think you're right.

As animatics said before, all these newspapers and channels are probably getting manipulated by "Thaksin's Public Relations companies" Otherwise why would they all unanimously criticize, the true savior of Thailand, PAD.

[animatic]

Tod he has said himself he is using PR companies to create his own world perception.

ALL these media outlets would be targets for his message.

No doubt the Independant is getting speacial care to get

some local rable-rousing going down.

He is MUCH more savy about this than most others in the scheme of things.

More importantly, he also has a huge bankroll to do it with.

I have not said that they quote him or his flacks verbatim.

But with news rooms and long standing news files,

what gets in early often colors all later responses,

and gets looked at again for updates.

As well as long standing editorial biases of course too.

And that was noted by another above.

Edited November 3, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

Thaksin says coup deprived country of workaholic PM

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra told his supporters at the Rajamangala Stadium that the 2006 coup had fired a workaholic PM like him.

Addressing his supporters through a phone call Saturday night, Thaksin said the coup instead got a retire-age man to run the country.

Source: The Nation - 01 November 2008[/i)

see it just goes to show if you work really hard you too could become a billionaire, even if you start off as a simple policeman, but hang on why are most of the country dirt poor

Too much rice, not enough protein.

[jdinasia]

Tod he has said himself he is using PR companies to create his own world perception.

ALL these media outlets would be targets for his message.

No doubt the Independant is getting speacial care to get

some local rable-rousing going down.

He is MUCH more savy about this than most others in the scheme of things.

More importantly, he also has a huge bankroll to do it with.

I have not said that they quote him or his flacks verbatim.

But with news rooms and long standing news files,

what gets in early often colors all later responses,

and gets looked at again for updates.

As well as long standing editorial biases of course too.

And that was noted by another above.

You only have to look at who owns the majority of the radio and TV stations in the country and what agency controls the news to understand why Thaksin gets 95% good press upcountry.

[AlKing]

Tod he has said himself he is using PR companies to create his own world perception.

ALL these media outlets would be targets for his message.

No doubt the Independant is getting speacial care to get

some local rable-rousing going down.

He is MUCH more savy about this than most others in the scheme of things.

More importantly, he also has a huge bankroll to do it with.

I have not said that they quote him or his flacks verbatim.

But with news rooms and long standing news files,

what gets in early often colors all later responses,

and gets looked at again for updates.

As well as long standing editorial biases of course too.

And that was noted by another above.

You only have to look at who owns the majority of the radio and TV stations in the country and what agency controls the news to understand why Thaksin gets 95% good press upcountry.

Because Thaksin is 95% good, and 5% evil.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin call fails to sway critics

Reference to royal mercy seen as 'presumptuous, disrespectful'

Thaksin's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanchana said there were no plans to petition for a royal pardon for the ex-premier. There might be a misunderstanding because Thaksin did not mention seeking amnesty, he said.

Just when will, if ever, Pongthep clearly explain what Thaksin DID mean by...

"ไม่มีใครที่จะเอาผมกลับประเทศไทยได้หรอก นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน จริงไหมครับ" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี กล่าว

Matichon.

Supposedly this is the Thai version which I would translate as meaning HM the King rather than Royal and as saying "if not the King's pardon then the power of the people".

backpedaling is Thaksin's forte'.... whether it's applying for political asylum... defending himself in court... or requesting a Royal Pardon... throw out a plan or intention onto the media and then when it gets slaughtered... backpedal and say it was misunderstood... honest mistake... etc.

Er...perhaps , but not in this instance. More like you and the press jumping the gun. His

actual words did not request a pardon.

This is all just silly spin.

Of course, this is a forum of opinion, and you have yours like everyone else but in this case your opinion does not represent fact.

Did the press and myself actually jump the gun? If so, it certainly appears to be universally reported that that was the nature of his words. So much so that his spokesman felt obligated to come out and deny all these multi-sourced reports that that was the intent of his words.

Of course, in doing so he has completely neglected to inform the public of precisely what Thaksin DID intend to mean with his words...

Still, I'll leave it up to you to translate the above quote if you think it was different than what cmsally says it meant.

There you have it ,' appears' you say and ' the nature of his words " ...not his words. It was indeed reported by some of the press as ' his words ' ( they do love a bit of spin ) necessitating his spokesman coming out and denying the fact. As for the translation I can put it into a text thats easier to read if it helps.

My mee kry tee ja ow pom glap pratet Thai dai lok , nok jag prabahn mee tee ja song mee prametadta ,reu my gor palang kong pee nong prachachon took tahn. Jing my krap ? adeet nai yok ratamondtri glaow

Hope that helps. Think about it. He was pre informed that everything he said was going to be gone through with a fine comb by all and sundry. This was not an impromptu speach but something prepared beforehand. He knew he had to be careful. If he really had said anything of note people would have been saved the bother of spin.

Once again, I am pointing this out in the interests of factuality.

The number of his public speaking gaffs, both prepared and impromptu, are numerous.

This is yet another one... as he apparently never learned from the previous ones.

The sure fire way to avoid any mistranslations or misperceptions of his actual words is to avoid any mention whatsoever of His Majesty the King from his speech. He didn't do that. He instead tried to gamble on getting it in and of course, it didn't go unnoticed and became one of the main focus of reports on his speech.

He's not "crafty" as tod-daniels called his tactics... he was disrespectful and it blew up in his face.

Quite so, but in a few days from now it is likely that the ' close scrutiny ' of his speach will fade away with no real action being taken. As for being disrespectful, in view of the LM laws, almost anything can be and has been construed as such. But not everyone who waves a yellow flag is a patriot either. Before the last coup, the PAD were warned not to use His Majesty the Kings name in their speeches. This was deemed as disrespectful.

As to whether Thaksin will ever request a Royal Pardon, only time will tell but it does not look likely at the moment. In any event, I'm on holiday for a couple of days starting proongnee and I don't think I'll be bumping into the Thaksins on the beach.

It is unlikely now that that he will petition for the pardon since it has blown up in his face after he cloddishly and presumptiously attempted to float the notion to which he received such a negative reaction from local and international media.

However, there is a Parliament full of his PPP MP's who will willingly risk any untoward event by applying for him in his name... there's no shortage of stupid ones willing to ruin their own reputation in order to try and save his...

btw, who warned the PAD about their speeches?

[sriracha john]

Since his own Personal Spokesman has done such a horrendous job of trying to explain away Thaksin's words, he has the People Power Party Spokesman take a stab at it... but then again, just why is a current political party spokesman speaking for a banned, un-incarcerated, convicted fugitive???

Ruling PPP: No intent to help ousted prime minister Thaksin

BANGKOK, Nov 3 (TNA) - Thailand's ruling People Power Party (PPP) has no plan to request a royal pardon for the country's convicted, ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra so that he might avoid facing the consequences of his two-year jail conviction and sentence for his role in relation to a Bangkok land purchase case, acting PPP Spokesman said Monday.

Kudep Saikrachang said he himself disagreed with the idea to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin, now living with his wife and children in Britain.

"It is up to individual members of Parliament to decide," Kuthep said. And then he proceeded to give detailed instructions on how such individual MPs could effect an act of Parliament to bring about such a pardon. *we're not intending to do it, but if you want to know how to do it, this is how you do it*

A draft bill must be prepared and then forwarded to Parliament for its consideration if a royal pardon is to be sought, Kuthep said, adding that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had said it is up to each MP to decide. Requesting a royal pardon must also take timing into consideration.

"The Party (PPP) hasn't yet decided to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin as the prevailing situation (in the country) must also be taken into consideration. It's impossible to do things for just one person," said Kudep.

Did Kuthep say the words you've highlighted in red, or are they your comments?

I assume the latter rather than a quote !

Make it a lot easier for readers if your excellent job of sourcing articles and your intuitive insight into the psyche of the subjects of those article are delineated clearly, ......perhaps by putting <SR.J> after an editorial inclusion.

*red text enclosed within asterisks* has been the standard poster comments for quite some time...

It stands out enough that people haven't questioned it before.

[sriracha john]

Will Thaksin phone-in be aired on NBT?

The public has been kept guessing on whether ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra's phone-in and pre-recorded video will be broadcast on the "Truth Today" programme.

However, Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva warned that if the phone-in were to be replayed it would be tantamount to the government acting as a mouthpiece of the convicted former leader.

Veera Musikaphong, co-host of the "Truth Today" talk show on the state-controlled NBT channel, said he may or may not rebroadcast the speech, which was first aired in front of some 50,000 people at the Rajamangala National Stadium on Saturday.

Veera, himself a former Thai Rak Thai party executive *just why is banned from politics, Khun TRT Banned #104, allowed to host a political show, anyway?*, said that though Thaksin's speech does not fit the show's format, excerpts or the entire discourse could be aired if a co-host were not available on a certain evening. The show runs from Monday to Friday.

He added that the pro-government satellite television MV5 had already been broadcasting the speech.

Meanwhile, Abhisit said the government had no excuse for letting state-controlled *and taxpayer-financed* NBT channel air the speech.

"I'm not sure if it will be seen as a defamation of the courts or the institution [the monarchy]. Would this be appropriate? By watching the news, one realises that there is an existing condition of conflict. Why doesn't the government recognise this? What the people need most is to have the government restore peace. If [the talk] is replayed, then I can't see it as any other way but an intentional action by the government [to create rifts]."

Meanwhile, Democrat Party Deputy Secretary-General Thepthai Senaphong threatened to sue the Chief of the Public Relations Department, which oversees the NBT channel, if the footage is broadcast.

"You can prepare for it ... and get a lawyer in advance," he warned.

- The Nation / 2008-11-04

[brahmburgers]

For over 8 years, Thaksin and his family have been larger than life players on the Thai political stage. By him mentioning 'royal kindness' as a means to enable him to get back in the country (and get back at the political helm), is a plain request for a pardon. Thaksin doesn't go through channels on other matters (taxes, court hearings, customs clearance, property purchases) - so why should we expect him to go through any sort of formal process of requesting a royal pardon?

[sriracha john]

Military blasts Thaksin for involving King

The military top brass yesterday declared fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra's speech at the Rajamangala Stadium rally "out of bounds." The remarks, made during a 10-minute phone-in on Saturday, were the centre of yesterday's meeting of the armed forces leaders, the Supreme Commander, and the Defence Permanent-Secretary. According to a highly-placed military source, Thaksin's speech was "out of bounds" and appeared to put pressure on His Majesty the King. In one of the most controversial parts of his speech, Thaksin told his supporters at the rally that nothing could bring him home apart from royal clemency or the power of the people. "[Thaksin's remarks] have involved His Majesty in politics. His comments are out of bounds. He was talking about royal clemency in spite of a guilty verdict by the court," said the source. The military leaders would coordinate with the Lawyers Council in carefully examining Thaksin's remarks for lese majeste, said the source. They also believed Thaksin was likely to make similar comments again. The source said the top brass were concerned Thaksin's remarks will be used to incite his supporters to campaign against the two-year jail sentence given him by the Supreme Court. Defence Permanent-Secretary Gen Apichart Penkitti said Thaksin's speech troubled military leaders. "To us, Thaksin's remarks bring discomfort to His Majesty the King. He should not have involved His Majesty,"," Gen Apichart said. Opposition Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva called on PM Somchai to block the planned broadcast of Thaksin's speech on the Truth Today political talk show on the state-run NBT channel. Mr Abhisit said Thaksin's speech was widely seen as highly controversial and could be insulting to the judiciary and the monarchy. He said broadcasting it would show the government's insincerity about solving the political stalemate and its willingness to be Thaksin's

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/041108_News/04Nov2008_news04.php

Edited November 4, 2008 by sriracha john

[koosdeboer]

An Open Letter from the Open Forum for Democracy Foundation ("Poll Watch")

Published on November 4, 2008

Many wellwishers recently came out of seclusion to publicly call for a truce among the "quarrelling parties" entangled in the current political turmoil. While no names were mentioned, the proposed "Four-party Peaceful Dialogue" by an academic was meant to include the government, the opposition, the PAD (People's Alliance for Democracy) and the DAAD (Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship)-organisers of the "Saturday Night Live" event that was telecast nationwide on state-owned station NBT and paid for with taxpayers' money).

When asked by reporters whether former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was one of the four parties, dialogue proponent Vanchai Vathanasap said the fugitive has been "too distant from local politics and he should not be part of this dialogue".

Well, the "Saturday Night Live" show at the Rajamangala Stadium rendered Vanchai a big slap in the face!

Even before the overseas phone-in hoopla by convicted fugitive Thaksin, we had no doubt why Vanchai's proposed dialogue was ridiculed repeatedly by PAD leaders. They argued that the PAD is at odds not with the hooligans and hired herd of the DAAD, hence the latter and even the opposition serve only as distractions. So long as Thaksin still pulls the strings, setting the political agenda from afar, there will be no peaceful settlement on the horizon.

The PAD is against Thaksin's cronyism that has been handed down to the Somchai administration, as well as its predecessor Samak's, and the potential successor, the Poo-ar Thai Party, which comprises most of the executive directors of the former Thai Rak Thai Party, banned by the Constitution Court from involvement in politics.

Instead of falling for Thaksin's self-serving letters to "Friends in the International Media", foreign journalists and observers should question how banned politicians are actively manoeuvring behind the political scenes to provoke violent confrontation at all cost.

Financially speaking, Thaksin is known to be not stringent about the costs involved in promoting his political agenda. The Saturday phone-in showcased yet another self-serving gimmick. Thaksin got the international media hooked in further propagating his apparent popularity - urged the masses to "help bring me home" - without giving importance to the fact that he has transgressed the due process of law.

The Open Forum for Democracy Foundation would like to express its view on the current political stand off among the various parties, directed in particular at "armchair critics" with inadequate information. Those who have a distaste for the PAD - for its objectionable language and "undemocratic siege" of the Government House - should at least explore why thousands of educated and middle-class urbanites have been camped out there for over five months without being paid to do so.

Armchair-bound political critics should try gaining first-hand experience by joining a DAAD rally or the PAD at the Government House, and compare the rhetoric and provocations witnessed at each venue. Better yet, they should stroll around the premises to profile the demonstrators and assess the on-site situation that is usually not reported in the media.

While we commend the PAD for its educational extension programme over the past five months, with demonstrators attending open-university classes on politics, we abhor the tabloid style of twisting facts to excite the demonstrators to the point that the Government House has been turned into an "entertainment" venue. Nonetheless, we agree that even the least-educated demonstrators have learned about Thai politics and that this will contribute to a more sophisticated pool of voters in future elections.

The majority of the Thai populace stays aloof and is still very much misinformed by NBT and all state-concession radio and TV stations, as well as the print media, which sells out for adverts and bought columnists who churn out fabricated information.

No doubt many surveys yield the same result: that most respondents are irritated by the PAD demonstration and want the government to get serious about law enforcement, with regard to reclaiming the Government House. On the other hand, the PAD has only its ASTV satellite broadcast and the unreliable radio frequency 97.75 MHz, both paid for by the demonstrators and supporters inside and outside Thailand. It resembles the underground radio heard during the 1999 war against Albanian guerrillas in Kosovo.

There are similar examples we can learn from in other countries in recent history, including the Philippines' "People Power" movement which brought down the Ferdinand Marcos dictatorship in February 1986. Then, Filipinos flooded the streets of Manila in yellow shirts. The "Orange Revolution" in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev is another lesson from which we can learn. From November 2004 through to January 2005, thousands of Ukrainians demonstrated daily in a series of civil disobedience sit-ins and general strikes until the self-proclaimed "democratically elected government" that came to power through massive electoral fraud and voter intimidation eventually resigned. The latest example is the "Tulip Revolution" in which the people of the central Asian republic of Kyrgyzstan overthrew President Askar Akayev and his government. The revolution sought the downfall of Akayev and his family and associates, who had become increasingly corrupt and authoritarian. Despite his victories in the parliamentary elections of February 27 and March 13, 2005, the fact is that the polls were known to be marred by massive fraud. Following the revolution, Akayev fled the country. Does that sound familiar?

Thailand has not achieved the stage of "revolution" as in the aforementioned countries, despite the sit-in by peaceful demonstrators at the Government House. Please note that we fully acknowledge the fact that many violent incidents have occurred in the past five months, including the fatal one on October 7. However, our first-hand experience tells us that they were all unilateral attacks against unarmed PAD demonstrators. We therefore call for the dissolution of Parliament to revamp the political landscape before the government, with an upper hand in the lower House and connections in the upper House, succeeds in amending the Constitution to its advantage.

Though we are worried about the resurrection of populist policies as a pretext to vote buying in disguise, more disturbing is the coalition government's stance that supports a convicted fugitive. This only invites more violent conflict in society. Whether the people in red T-shirts from the north and north-east were paid to attend the televised talk in Bangkok is not an issue, Thaksin's on-air appeal to 'his' supporters challenges the legitimacy of the judiciary that convicted him - and this is unacceptable by any count.

The Open Forum for Democracy Foundation hereby rejects the validity of the government claim that it was elected by a landslide victory, because its massive popularity is predicated by its vote buying, which was proven by the Election Commission. The Constitution Court shall hand down its verdict on dissolving the coalition parties soon.

Of course, the prolonged PAD protest has caused a nuisance to many quarters of society. On the other hand, we see it as a constitutional right for people to stage a peaceful demonstration in any modern democracy whenever the powers-that-be do not serve the interests of citizens. The DAAD and government supporters are also entitled to their constitutional right to demonstrate, provided that it is openly peaceful.

The point is that the current administration and its predecessor yearn for the return of their ousted political master, a convicted criminal on the run, instead of seeking true reconciliation that is a prerequisite to bringing the fugitive to justice. Hence, it is more than justifiable both democratically and even morally for citizens to block the continuation of such a despotic tyranny, and the succession of its cronies. So long as it is carried out peacefully, it has our endorsement. Dialogue is hence a non-issue if the government continues on this course.

THE OPEN FORUM FOR DEMOCRACY FOUNDATION ("POLL WATCH") |DIRECTORS:|GEN SAIYUD KERDPHOL (RET.)|KHUNYING AMBHORN MEESOOK|CHAMNONG WATANAGASE|SAK KORSAENGRUENG|SAKOOL ZUESONGDHA|SOMCHAI SRISUTTHIYAKORN|WARIN TIAMCHARAS|DUSIT, BANGKOK

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/04...on_30087504.php

[JacknDanny]

AS for quoting from Singapore Straits Times, a country well known for lack of freedom of the press.... I would have expected nothing less than this poorly written trash posing as a fair and balanced report.

Here we go again.George Orwell pointed out long ago that those who disliked his opinions always stated his books and articles were poorly written.As it happens, and with all due modesty I am quite well placed to assess, and leaving out all comment on content, Nirmal Ghosh writes rather elegantly and clearly.

During TRT the media of Thailand tended to believe that they were to be generally biased to be pro Thaksin or else suffer financial issues (only the Nation initially could stand up to them, and even they eventually faded away)

Fact: Singapore ranked as 147th country in 2004 in terms of media freedom by Reporters without borders and is now in 2008 ranked in at 153rd; basically on par with countries like Iraq, Myanmar, Libya, Zimbabwe and China.

By comparison Thailand ranks 124th. My opinion therefore ......So if you think the Thai media is completely intimidated and has suffered rampant interference (and I do), then make it about 50 countries worse that this....and that's Singapore which is often referring to the Strait Times as the PAP (ruling party) party mouthpiece. I agree, the article is written technically well (good grammar, reasonable use of language, nice picture painted) - just as some one says anything in ASTV can be relied on to be hysterically pro PAD/anti PPP, I am merely commenting that most accredited journalists would consider anything in the Straits to be the opposite.

Certainly far from a rant, just a statement of fact regarding political bias - you will note I have also mentioned both in the original post as well as here that ASTV would be similarly impossible to rely on as being objective, and i would have no difficulty in shooting it down also.

And obviously, it should be mentioned that pre TRT, Thailand was a bastion of the free press, ranked somewhere closer to the top 100 and in 2000 was ranked 29th in the world....by 2005 we had dropped to 105th under PPP we are now at 124th. In other words.... fact = media here is not free and is influenced by whoever for whatever reason, and has been since TRT got into power; Singapore is even worse.

Not rant for the most part. Opinion based on fact. This is why I post less and less ;-) I feel like the bland leading the blind!

นอกจากพระบารมีที่จะทรงมีพระเมตตา หรือไม่ก็พลังของพี่น้องประชาชนทุกท่าน

As for his comment, translated well it would be, The only reason to come back would be at the behest of his Majesty the King, or if not that (or could be translated as and if his Majesty did not request so) then the will of all Thai people.

As for the comments regarding my own views, I dislike the PAD, but I would like to see objective reporting.

'Note the Herald is new zealnds leading newspaper, the Strait Times is Singapore's. But then he feels the Economist is also a rag for not supporting PAD(he hasn't weighed in on Time yet, which also came down on PAD) '

Economist I know of the writer, he covers across Asia (not just Thailand) so has a relatively rudimentary understanding of the facts; I offered to assist the Herald in writing regarding Thailand as I have previously helped them with business reporting; offer was not even replied to.

Don't compare Straits to the Herald; the Herald is in a media free press country, and while they are hopeless at reporting on many things, in general they are not bad and not particuarly political. For Asia, they wouldn't have a clue where to start.

I am quite amused at the idea that NBT is somehow objective from people like Koo82 when it reports to the PM's office and is a matter of record that each journalist was appraised when PPP got into power on what they had said positively about/against coup, Thaksin and a few other matters. (So TAWP, I guess I am the member of your little club! - don't worry, I won't waste your time posting further in this thread, so please don't let facts and straight dope get in the way of the objectivivty of NBT)

As for the banned politicians, I know many of them, have consulted and worked for a couple, and there are only a couple I even think are worthy of mention for being 'good guys' who should be missed - Somkid and Purachai (not that I know either) - the rest are mostly deadbeats and idiots.

I, for one, appreciate your posts.

You are obviously 'in the loop', unlike the majority of numb nuts who post on here using the "I know because I know a man who knows a man blah blah blah"

You back your statements up with facts, and I believe you

I, like you, seldom post on here anymore, as I cannot stand people making ridiculous statements, without backing any of it up, and then when called on it begin to flame and drag the whole threads down.

Keep up the good work Steve, you are an excellent source of information, and along with Sriricha John, are a most valuable member of this board

[JacknDanny]

Since his own Personal Spokesman has done such a horrendous job of trying to explain away Thaksin's words, he has the People Power Party Spokesman take a stab at it... but then again, just why is a current political party spokesman speaking for a banned, un-incarcerated, convicted fugitive???

Ruling PPP: No intent to help ousted prime minister Thaksin

BANGKOK, Nov 3 (TNA) - Thailand's ruling People Power Party (PPP) has no plan to request a royal pardon for the country's convicted, ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra so that he might avoid facing the consequences of his two-year jail conviction and sentence for his role in relation to a Bangkok land purchase case, acting PPP Spokesman said Monday.

Kudep Saikrachang said he himself disagreed with the idea to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin, now living with his wife and children in Britain.

"It is up to individual members of Parliament to decide," Kuthep said. And then he proceeded to give detailed instructions on how such individual MPs could effect an act of Parliament to bring about such a pardon. *we're not intending to do it, but if you want to know how to do it, this is how you do it*

A draft bill must be prepared and then forwarded to Parliament for its consideration if a royal pardon is to be sought, Kuthep said, adding that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had said it is up to each MP to decide. Requesting a royal pardon must also take timing into consideration.

"The Party (PPP) hasn't yet decided to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin as the prevailing situation (in the country) must also be taken into consideration. It's impossible to do things for just one person," said Kudep.

Did Kuthep say the words you've highlighted in red, or are they your comments?

I assume the latter rather than a quote !

Make it a lot easier for readers if your excellent job of sourcing articles and your intuitive insight into the psyche of the subjects of those article are delineated clearly, ......perhaps by putting <SR.J> after an editorial inclusion.

*red text enclosed within asterisks* has been the standard poster comments for quite some time...

It stands out enough that people haven't questioned it before.

Some people, John, you just have to spell everything out for them

[Plus]

Actually Plus, anyone would have to admit that the PADS activities have definatley made it more difficult for corruption on a large scale to happen...at least for now. This has been a useful achievment of the PAD and I hope it lasts. Since they have had some success with this wouldn't it be nice if they started having a go at the patronage system as well.....which is just a kind of ' jobs for the boys ' corruption.

Hence new politics - redrawing constituencies so that patronage power built on generations of dominating geographical areas does not hold anymore.

How can anyone be a 'Dictator' in Thailand without the support of....

Military

Monarchy

Urban intelligentsia

Courts

...

Yes, you need the urban buy-in. (eg European dictators were bank-rolled by urban bourgeois middle classes and entrepreneurs and clever persuasive propaganda accounted for the rest)

You were speaking of urban intellegensia - it's still there, from your original post. That's what surpised me.

But he didn't have the tacit support of those other four elements.

I lost count here - he staffed the army and the police with his own people, he neutralised courts, and he had support from urban non-intellegentsia for the first four-five years - look at his decisive victory in Bangkok in 2005. He also had complete control of broadcast media and kept most of print media down on their knees.

And he had visions of grandeur.

What more do you need for a wannabe dictator status?