Rules For Swiss Men Who Abandon Kids And Children In Thailand

[torrenova]

I have a female Thai friend who married a Swiss guy and then had a baby with him. Whilst she was pregnant, he went AWOL leaving not only her but his older child by another women in her care. He re-appeared then absconded again with his older child, leaving the Thai lady literally holding the baby.

She has received no financial help since he left and believes he may wish to marry another girl. This is unsubstantiated at present.

However, I want to ask if their is any recourse under Swiss law for her. His mother knows about the baby but is old and frail.

The embassy and immigration know about the marriage also.

I just want to see whether there is something she can do to make the coward pay up and take responsibility. Thanks.

[bravingbangkok]

I believe there are laws that require him to pay child support if the child is proven to be his in a Swiss court. However he might not by law have to take the test. thats the laws of the EU ! twisted as fu8ck.

I could be wrong on this but I certainly think she would have a case to argue

Edited November 13, 2008 by bravingbangkok

[submaniac]

I believe there are laws that require him to pay child support if the child is proven to be his in a Swiss court. However he might not by law have to take the test. thats the laws of the EU ! twisted as fu8ck.

I could be wrong on this but I certainly think she would have a case to argue

Hmmmm...I know nothing of EU laws (and I am happy to leave it that way) but I know in the US that if they are married, there is a (rebutable) presumption that the child is his. He would have to take the DNA to disprove that it is not his. That's my thoughts of someone who knows nothing of EU or Thai law in this regards.

[duncaw]

Switzerland is neutral and has therefore never joined the EU.

It's laws are it's own but tend to favour people with large amounts of money deposited in Swiss bank accounts.

[elektrified]

Switzerland is not part of the EU and furthermore the Swiss government will not get involved. And quite frankly - you should stay out of it too. It's not your business.

[ham]

I guess she should contact the swiss embassy in Bangkok if she is married to that swiss guy legal (with passport etc.):

Embassy of Switzerland

35 North Wireless Road

Bangkok 10330, Thailand

Postal address

Embassy of Switzerland

P.O. Box 821

Bangkok 10501, Thailand

Tel. +66 2 253 01 56-60

http://www.swissembassy.or.th/

Maybe he get even "child-money" if he is living and working in Switzerland!

[zaza]

I have a female Thai friend who married a Swiss guy and then had a baby with him. Whilst she was pregnant, he went AWOL leaving not only her but his older child by another women in her care. He re-appeared then absconded again with his older child, leaving the Thai lady literally holding the baby.

She has received no financial help since he left and believes he may wish to marry another girl. This is unsubstantiated at present.

However, I want to ask if their is any recourse under Swiss law for her. His mother knows about the baby but is old and frail.

The embassy and immigration know about the marriage also.

I just want to see whether there is something she can do to make the coward pay up and take responsibility. Thanks.

does she know any (real) information about him?

how long has she stayed with him(totally)? maybe he is just mentally ill or a pervert.

How does she know that the other baby is his own? maybe the man is a psycho and kidnapped the other baby.

is he still living in Thailand or not? if he is in Thailand ; Swiss law do not apply on him.

is he a member on TV forum?

These questions would help in solving her problem if you try to investigate them well.

ps;I (again) had a wrong misconception of thinking all Swiss men are decent; I guess ;only their chocolate is

[Mario2008]

It would make a big difference where the father is staying, so the question is where is the father staying, in Thailand or Switserland?

You state he is mariried to your friend, so if he wants to marry again he will first need to get a divorce. For that he will have to go to court, expensive and takes a long time. There is of course the option of divorce by mutual concent, which is done in 5 minutes at the amphur. In this your friend will have some room to negotiate if it comes to a divorce, including about child support and custody of the children.

From an immigration point of view, if the husband has an extension of stay based on marriage, that is no longer valid as he is not living with his wife anymore.

Edit:

Under Thai law your freind could probably ask for support based on section 1461 of the Thai Civil Code:

http://www.isaanlawyers.com/images/CCCT%20...%20marriage.pdf page 5

Edited November 14, 2008 by Mario2008

[geriatrickid]

Your friend needs a lawyer. If you are concerned, pay for the legal counsel.

[Patsycat]

As has been mentioned above, Switzerland is not a part of the EU and therefore has it's own laws. But i am sure that the laws towards abandonment, child abducting and bigamy are the same as in any other country, if not stricter. I wish your friend luck.

[Misplaced]

Switzerland is not part of the EU and furthermore the Swiss government will not get involved. And quite frankly - you should stay out of it too. It's not your business.

Speaking like a true genitalman sir

In time of troubles at least your friend knows she can count on you

As usual, Geriatrickid gave good advice. The best thing you can do is help her get legal counsel so she can stand her own grounds.

[Mario2008]

Switserland is not part of the EU, but that is of no importance. Switserland has signed a treaty about (child)support, Thailand is not a member of this treaty.

[2008bangkok]

As has been mentioned above, Switzerland is not a part of the EU and therefore has it's own laws. But i am sure that the laws towards abandonment, child abducting and bigamy are the same as in any other country, if not stricter. I wish your friend luck.

What post have you been reading???? Child abducting????What you on about the OP said he left 'his own' child and then came back and got 'his own child'

[joskydive]

I have a female Thai friend who married a Swiss guy and then had a baby with him. Whilst she was pregnant, he went AWOL leaving not only her but his older child by another women in her care. He re-appeared then absconded again with his older child, leaving the Thai lady literally holding the baby.

She has received no financial help since he left and believes he may wish to marry another girl. This is unsubstantiated at present.

However, I want to ask if their is any recourse under Swiss law for her. His mother knows about the baby but is old and frail.

The embassy and immigration know about the marriage also.

I just want to see whether there is something she can do to make the coward pay up and take responsibility. Thanks.

Just Googled this information for you. She would need a very good international Lawyer to follow this through.

Switzerland

Sources of Law

Swiss Federal Act on Private International Law (PIL)

Swiss Civil Code

Jurisdiction

Brussels II does not apply. This consequently means that PIL is exclusively applicable.

Article 59 PIL

‘The following courts have jurisdiction to entertain an action for divorce or separation: a. the Swiss courts at the domicile of the defendant spouse; b. the Swiss courts at the domicile of the plaintiff spouse, providing that the latter has been residing in Switzerland for a year or is a Swiss national’

Article 60 PIL

‘When the spouses are not domiciled in Switzerland and at least one of them is a Swiss national, the courts at the place of origin have jurisdiction to entertain an action for divorce or separation, provided the action cannot be brought at the domicile of either spouse or cannot reasonably be required to be brought there.’

Switzerland does not apply the theory of “forum non conveniens” in questions relating to jurisdictions of divorce and separation.

Domicile and Habitual Residence

The terms domicile and habitual residence have to be interpreted within the meaning of the respective state treaty.

Under Art.20 PIL

Domicile is the state where he or she resides with the intent of establishing permanent residence.

Habitual residence is the state where he or she lives during a certain period of time, even if this period initially appears to be of limited duration.

Both the Swiss Civil Code and PIL expressively exclude that an individual may have more than one domicile at the same time.

Conflict of Law/Applicable Law to be Applied

Applies foreign law.

Pre-Nuptial Agreements

Pre- or post nutial agreements are binding and enforceable as far as they concern the matrimonial property regime. (Separation of property, community of property, modifications of the ordinary matrimonial property regime of Participation of Acquisitions)

Divorce

The Civil Code lists three grounds for divorce.

1. Joint application by the spouses either with a comprehensive agreement regarding corollary relief or partial agreements

2. By one spouse after 2 years separation.

3. Grave conditions not attributed to the petitioner, the spouse petitioning for divorce cannot be expected to continue remaining in the marriage. (for example in cases of domestic violence or if a spouse has been convicted of drug dealing) This ground of divorce is used very restrictively.

Fault in divorce has been abolished in Swiss Law since 1st January 2000.

Finances/Capital/Property

The legal consequences of divorce, such as financial matters must be decided before a divorce decree is issued.

Upon divorce the matrimonial property must be divided according to the specific matrimonial property regime.

The ordinary matrimonial property regime is that of Participation in Acquisitions.

Finances/Maintenance

Upon divorce the court may make orders for periodic or lump sum payments.

The court considers the responsibilities of each party during the marriage, the age and health of the parties, the income and assets of each party, care of the children, the education and earning potential of each party.

The fault principle has been abolished since 1 January 2000 in all questions related with the side effects of the dissolution of the marriage.

Remarriage terminates any rights to further periodic maintenance payments.

If the party entitled to support cohabits for five years this may be considered reason to reduce or stay the support obligation.

Child Maintenance

The law provides that the guardianship authorities or another competent body designated by cantonal law should assist a parent to enforce support orders against the other parent. If a parent fails to pay, the court may require that his or her debtors (including an employer) make their payments directly to the other parent. The court may also force the debtor parent to provide security for future payments.

[Patsycat]

I said it in a general way.

[torrenova]

Thanks for the replies so far.

My friend does not have the resources to instruct international lawyers. However, as I am from the UK, let me explain what I could do for free to find out some information about a UK national.

The electoral roll will state where he lives. From that you can deduce the value of the property he owns. You can check this through official records of property ownership.

It is fairly simple to make a claim against a person in the UK and also possible to have the government note a claim of attachment of earnings. You can also contact an employer.

If I were to marry a Thai I would divorce in Thailand not the UK. Even issuing proceedings in UK court for divorce is not too onerous financially and from then on you are screwed as they would take a very dim view of someone trying to evade financial responsibility by attempting to divorce elsewhere. Solicitors can be retained on a number of financial arrangements and the guy will be paying whatever.

So basically you can start to screw with someone's life unless they co-operate. I know nothing of Swiss law other than that I could find on the net but perhaps given the number of Swiss people married to Thais, I was hoping someone may have gone through this and be willing to take the opposing view and add their comments.

Too many kids here in Thailand are abandoned by selfish and cowardly fathers who just bugger off. My friend is a nice lady who is in need of help and even if she were not my good friend, men like this should be brought to justice.

As to comments regarding the validity of the information I have posted then please be assured that if I were not knowledgeable about the situation and confident in her bona fides then I would not pos here for assistance.

Thank you again for your help and I welcome any further comments and advice.

[Mario2008]

Torenova, does your friend know if her husband is in Swisterland or in Thailand?

[Maizefarmer]

Never mind what any Swiss law says - the problem will be enoforcement in Thailand.

Basic things, like who's the father on the Thai birth certificate are all thats really needed to demonstrate parentage. i think she should start off by getting a court order in her favour/childs favour from a Thai court - and use that as the basis to any action (whatever she chooses to do).

Its bad enough trying to enforce maintanance between divorced/seperated Thai's, let alone between Thais and ex-pats.

[agord]

Switzerland is not part of the EU and furthermore the Swiss government will not get involved. And quite frankly - you should stay out of it too. It's not your business.

Couldn't agree more We don't know his side of the story.

[soundman]

Read my mates story here torrenova.

Here is one part of it that may be applicable to this thread.

The Hague Convention

The Hague convention is an international convention governing family law which most developed countries around the world, including Australia, are a signatory to. The Hague convention covers everything from custody disputes to child maintenance alimony payments. Family courts in all countries will refer to The Hague convention when dealing with issues which extend internationally beyond their borders.

Thailand does not have a good track record of international cooperation and does not sign up to many international accords including the Hague convention. This is very good for Western fathers of Thai children because it means that we are not required by international law to provide maintenance alimony payments to children in Thailand and also the fact that Western court does not usually find in favour of the father does not apply in Thailand.

A few years ago I was able to communicate with a very senior bureaucrat in the Australian department of social security, the government department with the task of collecting maintenance alimony payments from one parent and distributing it to the other. The senior bureaucrat explained to me that even if they wanted to collect maintenance alimony payments from me, there is no social security department in Thailand to communicate with, send the money to and have administer the funds to the mother. Any money I choose to send to Thailand to support my child was entirely up to me alone.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[onnut]

looking at my little boy right now and I dont know how anyone can lave a kid behind.

[jackspratt]

I am happy to see Swiss men are beginning to learn from Thai men.

Let's hope other western men will follow.

Seems like you are happy to look down on Thai men (up to you).

But in the next breath you are happy to adopt the same standards.

I applaud your consistency