Rent Deposits

[st11x]

G'day,

I have been to several rental properties and either the owner or the agent wants a 3 month deposit. It seems a little excessive and I was reading in the Real Estate forum that it could be a challenge trying to get your money back.

I am looking at properties around the 15K THB mark, so it's a lot of money to potentially write off. Will dealing with an agent offer some added protection?

All of them will not do a lease term shorter than a year too.

What other gotchas are there? If they said that you can get this and that (like broadband) but it is not yet hooked up, should you make them write that into the contract in case something unexpected (like a prolonged waiting period) happens?

Your advice is appreciated.

thanks

Matt

[elektrified]

Matt,

2-3 months deposit is typical here (as it is in most major European cities). I had to pay first month plus two in both places I've rented here. Not much you can do to change that. Just make sure that everything is written into the contract which is more than likely in Thai so bring a Thai friend along with you to look it over.

Everyone wants a one year lease. Can't blame them. I did too when I was a landlord.

15K?? Hmmm. O.K. Must be very nice for that money!

Good luck.

Edited November 19, 2008 by elektrified

[Drew Aitch]

Hi Matt

I have been to several rental properties and either the owner or the agent wants a 3 month deposit.

That's about the norm, but once in a while you'll find a place that only requests a month in advance and 1 month's security deposit.

And I was reading in the Real Estate forum that it could be a challenge trying to get your money back.

Don't forget mate, people only ever report the horror stories, meaning that most of the time, most people, DO NOT have issues getting deposits back from private landlords or apartment buildings. 1 guy i knew of who was having a spot of bother a few years back just went and told the tourist police. When he stood at the door with the saluting officers an hour later, the deposit was given back in full and with a smile.

It's not a good idea to invite disaster stories 'cus you'll get enough of em to keep you in head f*cks until the day you leave. Just move in, make a note of any cracked glass, scratched floors, or damaged doors and drawers etc, then get your findings dated and signed and enjoy the rest of your stay

Btw, you should get quite a nice pad in CM for 15,000 THB/Mo

Good luck

Aitch

[cnxmike]

"it could be a challenge trying to get your money back."

Certainly it is. In my case I lost the complete deposit. Afterwards I talked to a lot of people and everybody told me, that's the way it is in Thailand. I'd wished they had told me in advance.

In most of the cases the deposit is lost, and there are no legal ways to claim it successfully. The only chance you have is, in case you want to move, don't pay the last 2 rents, don't pay the last utility bill, don't pay the last phone bill etc.

That's the only way to minimize your damage.

[earlofwindermere]

I have to agree with CNXMike that the in most cases, the deposit is lost. Don't not expect to get all of it back.

My advice is to be very clear from the beginning about things like if you are responsible to re-paint the house when you leave, "wear and tear" on the furniture you may also be renting from them and holes(for photos) that you put in the wall. It is also common for the owner to keep money for the last utility and phone bills. On the day you leave, make sure to record the water and electrical meter numbers to ensure that you are not paying for the use after you leave as well. This MAY help you get some of your money back but it is no guarentee.

Edited November 19, 2008 by earlofwindermere

[kingwillly]

I have to agree with CNXMike that the in most cases, the deposit is lost. Don't not expect to get all of it back.

My advice is to be very clear from the beginning about things like if you are responsible to re-paint the house when you leave, "wear and tear" on the furniture you may also be renting from them and holes(for photos) that you put in the wall. It is also common for the owner to keep money for the last utility and phone bills. On the day you leave, make sure to record the water and electrical meter numbers to ensure that you are not paying for the use after you leave as well. This MAY help you get some of your money back but it is no guarentee.

not true in all cases.

but good advice.

[Asmerom]

I have to agree with CNXMike that the in most cases, the deposit is lost. Don't not expect to get all of it back.

My advice is to be very clear from the beginning about things like if you are responsible to re-paint the house when you leave, "wear and tear" on the furniture you may also be renting from them and holes(for photos) that you put in the wall. It is also common for the owner to keep money for the last utility and phone bills. On the day you leave, make sure to record the water and electrical meter numbers to ensure that you are not paying for the use after you leave as well. This MAY help you get some of your money back but it is no guarentee.

I'm quite new here but my rental deposit is TWO months and of course returnable. Its written into the lease as returnable ( after 30 days to make sure there are no outstanding bills) and I see no reason why you cannot retrieve it when due. As written above, the tourist police would help if it came to that. It was exactly the same when I rented a Condo in Pattaya with English agents. Though when I could prove that all the bills had been paid they repaid the deposit after about three weeks.

My own attitude would be to expect the terms of the lease to be honoured and optimistically assume the landlord will behave correctly, rather than be suspicious from the outset and expect the worst. Not a pleasant policy.

As for illegally witholding the last two month's rents and not paying the bills, I suggest such advice to behave so badly is likely to be offered by one who expects others (landlords) to behave like himself.

With such conflicting advice it looks as if you'll just have to make up your own mind, hopefully optimistically and note, as was said above, that the silent majority don't complain.

[Ulysses G.]

I was renting from a nice little school teacher for several years with never a problem, but they still refused to give my deposit back when I moved out.

I went and got the tuk-tuk driver who lived down the street that translated when I moved in, and to his credit, he pretty much forced them to give it to me. There are plenty of honest Thais out there. It just isn't that easy for us to know who they are.

[Ajarn]

"it could be a challenge trying to get your money back."

Certainly it is. In my case I lost the complete deposit. Afterwards I talked to a lot of people and everybody told me, that's the way it is in Thailand. I'd wished they had told me in advance.

In most of the cases the deposit is lost, and there are no legal ways to claim it successfully. The only chance you have is, in case you want to move, don't pay the last 2 rents, don't pay the last utility bill, don't pay the last phone bill etc.

That's the only way to minimize your damage.

I have lived here for 24 years, and rented 6 houses. Each had deposits from 1 month to 3 months. I NEVER had a problem getting my deposits back in a resonable amount of time. Not everyone is so lucky, but if you and the landlord have a good relationship, then usually no problem.

[slapout]

A 3 month rent equilivent as a deposit is not a reasonable sum. If the 1st and last months rent are paid up front the deposit, fairly, will be 1 month rent. The rental properties my wife has handled, several, were set up this way by most of the landlords and she convienced the others that with all the rental properties out there it would behove them to be reasonable, if they want to get a vacancy filled. The Thai's for the most part would not consider a 3 month deposit as the leasee, as per the better half.

[jackr]

"it could be a challenge trying to get your money back."

Certainly it is. In my case I lost the complete deposit. Afterwards I talked to a lot of people and everybody told me, that's the way it is in Thailand. I'd wished they had told me in advance.

In most of the cases the deposit is lost, and there are no legal ways to claim it successfully. The only chance you have is, in case you want to move, don't pay the last 2 rents, don't pay the last utility bill, don't pay the last phone bill etc.

That's the only way to minimize your damage.

I have lived here for 24 years, and rented 6 houses. Each had deposits from 1 month to 3 months. I NEVER had a problem getting my deposits back in a resonable amount of time. Not everyone is so lucky, but if you and the landlord have a good relationship, then usually no problem.

Yep, I've had somewhere in the region of 10 houses/apartments in various parts of the country and never once been refused the dosh back.

[realthaideal]

The difference I find here is that we in the West think of the 3 mo's cash down as 1st mo's rent, last mo's rent, and then one mo's rent as deposit against damages. If/when you try to break it down like that tot he landlords they don't get it. They just call it a deposit. In the couple places I've rented however, it's worked just like that, though they didn't understand/ couldn't/wouldn't articulate the breakdown. And as Ajarn says, if you have a good relationship with the landlord, chances are better to get the $$ back at the end, and in a reasonable timeframe.

Always best to do a couple walkthrus of the house b4 signing and then taking pix of the place before moving in. Then take pix as you move out to. A little evidence of damages or well maintained property is always helpful.

I have, however, recently spoken with a couple landlords who ask for 4 mo's deposit (2 mo's damage ins!) for the bigger houses since they're more expensive. I don't like this one bit. Also more likely one guy did this as he was unhappy he'd be paying an agent one mo's commission if I rented. ie get the commission $4 out of the renter rather than pay himself.

[Drew Aitch]

There you go Matt

Told you if you invite doom and gloom you will get it! They’ll probably be plenty more where that came from too! Of course there will be some genuine complaints, but you can bet your bottom dollar you’ll not always get the full story from disgruntled tenants. Still, some folks have taken the time to report what is the ‘norm’, and that is you shouldn’t anticipate any problems, unless you make them of course! If anyone trashes a place, or breaks things, then they should pay for them, and I’m sure some of us accidentally bust things from time to time and hoped to get away with it when leaving.

Look, for those who had problems getting deposits back in the past, I bet almost none of them took the issue up with the tourist police, but rather sought their resolve, or at least vented their frustrations, in forums like this one.

Many apartment buildings will charge if you drill holes into the walls to hang pictures and the like. Even some 5,000 THB/Mo joints will charge you as much as 100 Baht a hole, but such things it will all be written into the contract. So long as you understand your contract, you can prepare prior to moving out, and in the case of the holes, simply get a bit of Artex or Polyfiller and fill the bloody things in before you move out!

Nearly all apartment buildings will charge for repainting & cleaning after you leave, but once again, it'll be written into the contract. Even if you’ve only been there a couple of months and the place neither needs repainting or cleaning, you will still be charged. It’s just a business cost where sometimes they win (with neat and tidy tenants), and sometimes they lose (with careless slobs).

I once moved into a place that had a cracked toilet seat, and so asked for a replacement. The landlady said it’s not possible to get a replacement seat for that model of loo anymore! I made sure that she knew that we knew it was cracked before I moved in. Guess what, I still got charged for one new toilet seat when checking out. Annoying though it was, it was just a few hundred baht and the remainder of my deposit was returned on the day of exit.

Condos (rented from private landlords), can be a bit different from a room in an apartment block, as private landlords the world over have a bit of a reputation for being a tad villain, and the more properties they have to sublet, the meaner they get.

But don’t let that scare you. So long as you are happy with the contract prior to moving in (and you have walked around with the landlord, or agency rep, making sure you’re happy with the place before signing anything written into that contract), then you will be like most folks and get your deposit back without a doubt. Unless your wreck the joint of course!

And finally, if you worry about not getting your big juicy deposit back before you’ve even thrown new sheets onto the bed, then you’ll not be able to enjoy living there as this ‘losing my deposit’ worry will always be praying on the back of your mind.

You die if you worry, and you die if you don’t! So why worry?

Aitch

[Steve2UK]

As (some) others have said, 2-3 months deposit is not uncommon nor (IMO) all that unreasonable.

Thus far I've had two deposit experiences - one relatively straightforward and the other less so. For the first, I made a point at every stage of getting the landlord to sign what I regarded as relevant documents - easily knocked out on the PC: receipts for all sums paid as well as a statement confirming that he had inspected the property at the end of my contract and that there were no damages to be charged against the deposit - and confirming that only any outstanding bills could be charged against it and re-stating the date by which the deposit balance was to be repaid to me. I didn't/don't kid myself that these pieces of paper amount to much in a Thai court (being anyway in English not Thai) - but I do believe that they create an impression with the landlord that you are business-like and do mean business - in other words "don't mess with me". Came the due day for the deposit to have been paid into my Thai bank account, I checked and it wasn't there; I rang him straightaway and asked him what was happening - " Oh, I meant to do it yesterday". The deposit was there the next day.

The second example was a 6-week let for a house with a small garden - arranged through an agent. The owner had the nerve to deduct 1,000 baht for "repairing the garden" - saying that some plants needed to be replaced as they had not been looked after/watered etc. I actually watered the garden 3 times a week (November/December) and this was BS. When I (to put it mildly) expressed my surprise/disbelief at this nonsense to the agent, he half-heartedly asked me if I wanted him to "negotiate" with the owner; for better or worse, I decided to think of the episode as good riddance and instead told him to a] ask her if she thought the garden was the size of Lumpini Park and b] tell the cheating bitch to keep her ill-gotten baht and that I expected really bad karma to come to her - "tam dee, dai dee etc........". Oh - and I forgot to mention that she was due to and did get builders in after I left to tear down a house wall and add an extension room - trashing the garden comprehensively in the process.

So, no guarantees - but I firmly believe that keeping your eye on the ball, staying on their tail and coming across as very business-like tends to pay dividends. I for one will never accept that you should "expect to write off your deposit" - but it can easily happen if you allow it to. Up to you........

[agord]

G'day,

I have been to several rental properties and either the owner or the agent wants a 3 month deposit. It seems a little excessive and I was reading in the Real Estate forum that it could be a challenge trying to get your money back.

I am looking at properties around the 15K THB mark, so it's a lot of money to potentially write off. Will dealing with an agent offer some added protection?

All of them will not do a lease term shorter than a year too.

What other gotchas are there? If they said that you can get this and that (like broadband) but it is not yet hooked up, should you make them write that into the contract in case something unexpected (like a prolonged waiting period) happens?

Your advice is appreciated.

thanks

Matt

[agord]

G'day,

I have been to several rental properties and either the owner or the agent wants a 3 month deposit. It seems a little excessive and I was reading in the Real Estate forum that it could be a challenge trying to get your money back.

I am looking at properties around the 15K THB mark, so it's a lot of money to potentially write off. Will dealing with an agent offer some added protection?

All of them will not do a lease term shorter than a year too.

What other gotchas are there? If they said that you can get this and that (like broadband) but it is not yet hooked up, should you make them write that into the contract in case something unexpected (like a prolonged waiting period) happens?

Your advice is appreciated.

thanks

Matt

Matt in my case the agent made the contract and when it came time for my refund the landlords made up all kinds of ridiculous reasons for not refunding the money. The agent in this case has said and done nothing to help me out even though the things they are claiming are in violation of her contract. Be carefull who you rent from and better to go with a an established company than private owner in my opinion.

[cmbe]

Matt,

For asking deposit is depend on the owner but I see some of them asking for one month deposit and one month in advance(not easy to find, you can try to talk with them), I think if you want to rent less than one year you can try to offer them to pay rental in advance 6 months or all the periode that you want to rent and ask to pay deposit only one month, "when you ask you have chance 50/50, and if not ask the chance can be zero", you can look all the websites that I sent you and tell them your condition about term of contract and deposit.

[cnxmike]

". Its written into the lease as returnable ( after 30 days to make sure there are no outstanding bills) and I see no reason why you cannot retrieve it when due."

Obviously there are still people, who believe in fairytales and the tooth fairy. Get real man. This is Thailand. They rip you off, whenever they can.

I dont't know, what you can do with your lease contract. If the back page is empty, you might put some notes on it. Otherwise flash it into the toilet.

To get more serious. What can you do, if the landlord doesn't return the deposit? With your western mind you might consider to get in touch with a lawyer, after all your calls and letters failed to have any result. Then the first thing the lawyer is asking for, is cash in advance. This will even happen quite often. On the long run the lawyer fees plus legal fees will be higher than your deposit. Then after a long time, it can be years, there might be court decision to your favour. But how can can you enforce it?

In Thailand there is no way. Except you send a bully with a baseball bat.

[Drew Aitch]

Obviously there are still people, who believe in fairytales and the tooth fairy. Get real man. This is Thailand. They rip you off, whenever they can.

'They' being the landlords & Agents i guess? The man above must be looking out for me then, because since 1994 i've lived in 3 apartments, and 4 condos, and so far (touch wood), i've always got my deposits back.

To get more serious. What can you do, if the landlord doesn't return the deposit? In Thailand there is no way. Except you send a bully with a baseball bat.

See above posts. Tourist police! Of course, only those who have used the tourist police to retreive their deposits can really comment on their efficiency.

Below is an extract taken from an article written by a chap that's been in Thailand almost 20 years:

One apartment owner refused to return my key money because I'd lost the tenant's agreement. I was left with no option but to go to the police. The police, it must be said, were helpful to the extreme. They wrote out a piece of paper (heaven knows what it said) and told me to present it to the apartment owner. The key money was given back to me without as much as a shrug of the shoulders.

Aitch

Edited November 20, 2008 by Drew Aitch

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> Is 3 months a norm?

There are no norms in Thailand.

[Drew Aitch]

With no response from the original poster in the 2 days since he requested advice, one would assume he wasn't all that bothered about rent deposits to begin with

Aitch

[el jefe]

I've also never had a problem getting my security deposit back. Most times I've just shown that I paid the last utility bill and I was handed cash as I returned the keys. Once, I had to break my lease and leave a month before my lease was up due to a family emergency. I warned my landlord that that might happen two weeks before I actually left. He returned my security deposit in full and did not ask for the final month's rent.

I met one of the former tenants of my current house after I moved in. He got his security deposit back without a problem so I'm not worried about getting my 3 months deposit returned if I ever leave where I am now. In fact, I was talking to my landlady who has another property for rent. She says she would prefer to rent to farang. She has rented to Thais in the past who have managed to cheat her out of several months rent.

I've been a landlord in the US and have lost many months rent from many tenants. They always have an excuse. I guess there are landlords that cheat tenants and tenants that cheat landlords but I would never want to rent from a landlord that I didn't trust.

[axel2001]

I paid 2 months deposit and 1 month rent when I rented a house (23 000 bath), it was a bunch of money but I hope to get it back anyway I have an agreement. I rented via real-estate company.

[PeaceBlondie]

First month rent, and two months of deposit, as in the West. I rented at Viang Ping Condos for two years, and got back my deposit, less reasonable damages. In HuaHin, I worked out the details on two transfers of moving hither and yon and here, no problem, just like my neighbors with same landlady. We have just told her mother that we will move out next year, and I think she will let me use one half the deposit as last month of rent, and refund the balance. So, like most respondents here, the myth of unreturned deposits is only true on occasion, here and back home.