4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[jdinasia]

[

there are also a lot of pictures around from moments whem these "peaceful" demonstrators use their sticks to club people to death.

Please post articles and pictures to prove that point.

Regarding your question .. no need to disperse those people at all

[Tod]

If you are in a country where they use watercannon against people partaking in civil disobedience than I would agree with you. I am unaware of that being used against civilians here though. The actions against the G8 summits more resemble riots quite often. Which g8 summit was it so we can look and see if you are comparing apples to oranges or not? (That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!)

The G8 summit of Evian a few years back, but the demonstrations took place in Geneva.

It was way more soft than what PAD are doing right now

"That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!"

I dont especially support this government but I think a few elitists, backed by a bunch of middle class reactionaries and a few other retards who don't even know what they are fighting against, who won't accept defeat in a democratic election and create a complete mess in a all country for month are way worst.

Hmmm I read the reports on the riots in Geneva

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0603-08.htm

and at several other sources .. and learned that the police used tear-gas AND watercannons. They were never used against the large group just small groups of 500 or so at a time. This may seem offtopic but it shows that perhaps watercannon are not a great option when used to attack protesters in large numbers!

Ok, well instead of correcting spelling mistakes from other peoples you should start to learn how to read first

Police used teargas and water cannon in an attempt to break up the groups of protesters - and the thousands of locals who swelled their numbers - as they clashed in the heart of the city.

[frodo]

Pro-government people clash with PAD supporters

A group of pro-government people in red shirts clashed with supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road Tuesday afternoon.

The clash happened near the Wang Dek Building at the mouths of Soil Vibhavadi 16 and 3.

The Nation

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30089382

Edited November 25, 2008 by frodo

[TAWP]

The G8 summit of Evian a few years back, but the demonstrations took place in Geneva.

It was way more soft than what PAD are doing right now

That is a lie and you should be reprimanded for it. I'm no supporter of PAD, but using lies as arguments won't win you any debates and it's really disingenuous to base your argument on the fact that not everyone in the forum is 'in the know' on current events.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2954190.stm

In the Swiss city of Geneva authorities spent more than nine hours battling with demonstrators as they rampaged through the city centre.

Shop windows were smashed and stores looted, leaving the city streets awash with broken glass and choking fumes from tear gas canisters.

After protesters began to hurl rocks and petrol bombs, the German police were brought in for reinforcements, storming the front line to scatter the rioters and chasing ringleaders all over the city, the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby in Geneva said.

In Lausanne demonstrators wearing black face masks blocked roads with burning barricades and attacked the hotel area where some summit delegates were staying before being driven away by riot police with tear gas.

Several demonstrators were injured, one seriously, reports said.

In the event, our correspondent says they were overrun by just a few hundred troublemakers - and with millions of dollars of damage done to their homes and businesses, the people of Geneva will want to know how that happened.

The authorities had hoped to avoid a repetition of the violence at the G8 summit in Genoa, Italy, two years ago when an Italian protester was shot dead by police.

So far BKK has not seen any looted shops, no petrol bombs throw on the police and so on, correct?

To compare the destruction Geneva saw with the clashes going on for months here is rather odd, since they don't even math closely in monetary values.

This is the basis many of us call the protests peaceful. Their aim is not to destroy the city. Unlike the thugs going to G8-summits dressed in black hoods...

[sriracha john]

Pro-government people clash with PAD supporters

A group of pro-government people in red shirts clashed with supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road Tuesday afternoon.

The clash happened near the Wang Dek Building at the mouths of Soil Vibhavadi 16 and 3.

- The Nation

============================

Reuters is reporting shots fired... news forthcoming

[permanent_disorder]

img]http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/41/ballr3254733365md5.jpg[/img]

------------------------------------------------

BANGKOKIAN

PAD-initiated violence

By The Nation

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) loves to point the finger at its opponents accusing them of using violence against its so-called peaceful assemblies, but it has done everything in its power to cover up the violence committed by its own members, particularly by PAD security guards....

However, the self-proclaimed peace-loving PAD has never taken the violence committed by its own side seriously. Protest leaders have made aggressive demands for officials who injured protesters last month to be brought to justice, but they have not uttered a word over the death of Narongsak Kobthaisong during a clash between the PAD and rival group the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) earlier this month. None of the PAD leaders called for justice for Narongsak, who was apparently from the DAAD side, never mind mentioning the possibility of an internal investigation to find the protesters responsible for the killing....

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/22/opi...on_30084032.php

[jdinasia]

Perm_Dis

One was killed when he attacked the PAD ... which does not match your claims or the pics

the OPINION piece you quote above is not news.

Have there been incidents of violence? yes

Was the death of the UDD man that attacked the PAD on 2 Sept bad? Yes. Did Samak get what he wanted from that death? The next day he declared the State of Emergency.

Was another man beaten near the bridge? Yes. Was he carrying an air-rifle? Yes Did he file a complaint with the police? No

Police said they could not arrest anybody since a complaint had not been filed over the incident. PAD's leaders paid the case no attention.

Have the PAD been bombed and attacked en masse? Yes. Do they have guards? Yes. Have those guards overreacted? Probably! Should there be investigations into all of this when it is finished? Absolutely!

Have fake stories been created (and then promptly faded into obscurity) Yes ...

[Tod]

That is a lie and you should be reprimanded for it. I'm no supporter of PAD, but using lies as arguments won't win you any debates and it's really disingenuous to base your argument on the fact that not everyone in the forum is 'in the know' on current events.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2954190.stm

Actually, most of the shops destructions were done during the night by small groups of well organized anarchists.

The use of teargas and water canons was done during daytime and against groups of several thousand people who were not breaking shops, but simply throwing bottles and other things at cops.

Anyway, that is not really the point. I was just saying that contrarily to what jdinasia stated before, police do use teargas and water canons against demonstrators in many develloped democraties.

[TAWP]

Anyway, that is not really the point. I was just saying that contrarily to what jdinasia stated before, police do use teargas and water canons against demonstrators in many develloped democraties.

Teargas canisters, not exploding grenades. And usually not without warnings. And not en masse as was seen in the clips.

(But I liked the girly-armed police officer that threw a gas-canisters right into the back of his fellow officers so they had to retreat...amazing training there. Just a good thing it wasn't a grenade...)

[tig28]

As long as these criteria are met, how can you call it a "dictatorship"? Just throwing labels around without thinking.

Well PLUS...... no!..... thinking a bit really ....about a country like China (for example) which certainly does not provide me with a model of government that I would ever wish on Thailand.

You see I believe that when a government is self appointed and unable to be removed at the ballot box by the will of the people ---- then the stage is set for real conflict. Should the likes of Sondhi Limthongkul and his really enlightened PAD supporters get their way then Thailand could end up with a lower house that is majority (70% was an early fruit-cake position) self appointed.

And then.....Sondhi Limthongkul ---- PLUS doesn't the name of this grub ring alarm bells with you???

YOUR loathing for Thaksin should also make you question the motives of Thaksins former supplicant and supporter........ but I doubt it!!

Your position that the people of this country cannot be trusted to vote for their own government is IMO an elitist, condescending view that should be resisted at every opportunity!!!

Removing Thaksin is a good first step ------ getting rid of PAD is an equally good second step !!

PLUS Thailand needs real DEMOCRACY--- not the half baked theories of a group like PAD---- supported by the military and a few other well entrenched self-interest groups who just couldn't believe they didn't win the last election after all the work they had invested to ensure that win --- and heaven forbid---Sondhi Limthongkul !!!

[permanent_disorder]

Perm_Dis

One was killed when he attacked the PAD ... which does not match your claims or the pics

the OPINION piece you quote above is not news.

Have there been incidents of violence? yes

Was the death of the UDD man that attacked the PAD on 2 Sept bad? Yes. Did Samak get what he wanted from that death? The next day he declared the State of Emergency.

Was another man beaten near the bridge? Yes. Was he carrying an air-rifle? Yes Did he file a complaint with the police? No

Police said they could not arrest anybody since a complaint had not been filed over the incident. PAD's leaders paid the case no attention.

Have the PAD been bombed and attacked en masse? Yes. Do they have guards? Yes. Have those guards overreacted? Probably! Should there be investigations into all of this when it is finished? Absolutely!

how do you know that the dead man was attacking the PAD? can you exclude that he was just a bystander or a normal peaceful pro Govm demonstrator? is there any evidence to prove your claim?

was there an investigation?

the one with the air rifle just was on his way across the illegal besieged area and probably jus afraid that the PAD gangsters will take his air rifle away. did he deserve a beating? NO!

PAD is is a violent and criminal mob, this is FACT. if you march with them - be prepared to face some police action.

[aircut]

In Vibhavadi Soi 3 today PAD supporters open live fire on PPP supporters. here is the video clip

[cmsally]

Thai Protesters Fire on rivals

BBC

Anti govt protesters fire at rivals.

[Los78]

Thank you PD for posting the photos to show the violent side of PAD. Its good to see some clear evidence from the other side instead of the regular propaganda coming from some PAD spokesman on TV. PAD no longer have the support anymore as people have got more important things to worry about thesedays. The longer they continue their latest antics the more opposition they will get and the more damage they will continue to do to Thailand.

[animatic]

[

there are also a lot of pictures around from moments whem these "peaceful" demonstrators use their sticks to club people to death.

Please post articles and pictures to prove that point.

Regarding your question .. no need to disperse those people at all

Why oh WHY... did you encourage him?????

[Los78]

Thai Protesters Fire on rivals

BBC

Anti govt protesters fire at rivals.

Hmm and I thought PAD are peace loving... Guess not from the latest footage. The police have start locking up these armed PAD criminals. Its really getting out of hand and clearly PAD has the weopons.

[jdinasia]

Perm Dis -- the UDD thug that was killed on Sept second was part of a group that attacked the PAD under the cover of darkness. Feel free to go back and read the news reports about the events that night!

Regarding that video --- I am trying to find it with sound. It looks damning

[Tod]

No, no, no

It was a fake gun...

It was a pro government supporter disguised as PAD...

The guy on the truck was attacked first and his life was imminently threatened...

PAD IS A PEACEFUL ORGANIZATION

[permanent_disorder]

...

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/797/444...13127532dp4.jpg

...

...

...

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/22/opi...on_30084032.php

Reason for edit: no personal commentary in news reports please--sbk

this is "old news" and my post was an answer to an other post. i was trying to discuss a certain point and used and older newspaper article as "prove" because i was requested to bring facts that people got clubbed to death by the PAD murderers.

if you edit and cut out the context i was given my post doesn't make so much sense anymore and looks odd.

but okay, my fault that i include some newspaper article to show what my personal opinion is based on.

i thought the context was clear. sorry if not. i personally dislike it as well if news reports got presented with "some personal commentary" and it is not clear what was the original news and what was added.

[jdinasia]

[

there are also a lot of pictures around from moments whem these "peaceful" demonstrators use their sticks to club people to death.

Please post articles and pictures to prove that point.

Regarding your question .. no need to disperse those people at all

Why oh WHY... did you encourage him?????

To prove that his claims of 'people' etc were erroneous.

If the new videos out were not egregiously provoked I think that the PAD bosses will have to bring ALL the PAD people under control in one location again. The problem is the group is so loosely organized that determining the identites of people involved is going to be difficult. If it was a provoked response (eg: if they were fired on or attacked with a bomb I assure you that the Thaksinistas will claim it was their fault anyways)

[jdinasia]

No, no, no

It was a fake gun...

It was a pro government supporter disguised as PAD...

The guy on the truck was attacked first and his life was imminently threatened...

PAD IS A PEACEFUL ORGANIZATION

the underlined point would be valid.

[animatic]

Thank you PD for posting the photos to show the violent side of PAD. Its good to see some clear evidence from the other side instead of the regular propaganda coming from some PAD spokesman on TV. PAD no longer have the support anymore as people have got more important things to worry about thesedays. The longer they continue their latest antics the more opposition they will get and the more damage they will continue to do to Thailand.

This was last when Samak let his dogs off the leash to create a State Of Emergency.

Which didn't work for him as expected.

PD and yourself very conveniently are ignoring the fact the guy on the ground with a group around him

HAS A MACHETTE just falling from his hand. Innocent government supporters do NOT

go up to PAD guards at 1 am with Machettes...

This was an organized, but drunken, attack by DAAD

on the PAD site and they lost the fight.... But Samak got his SOE.

This is a boiler plate grab from one of PD's posts of months ago.

And proves nothing more than there was a bad night caused by Samak's idiot squad.

Somebody comes at me with a machette at 1am I will knock his block off, if I can.

Because I want live till the morning as much as anyone.

Edited November 25, 2008 by animatic

[Tod]

By The Nation

Five people were injured when of the People's Alliance for Democracy battled pro-government taxi drivers on Vibhavadi Road Tuesday afternoon.

Reporters saw some 20 PAD guards running down from a sound truck when it reached in front of Soi Vibhavadi Rangsit 3 to chase after the taxi drivers.

The clash occured at about 5 pm.

The taxi drivers used red headbands threw objects as vehicles of the PAD when they driving past to the Suvarnabhumi airport.

Seeing the guards armed with knives and sticks coming to them, the taxi drivers fled into the soi.

The guards then damaged properties at the scene and set fire to three motorcycles.

The guards also attacked a taxi motorcyclists and threatened to harm a cameraman of Thai PBS, who ran for his life.

A taxi driver alleged that the PAD guards also fired at them.

The taxi drive said PAD guards from a six-wheel truck and pick-up truck also joined the first group of guards to go berserk at the scene.

Police were later deployed to check the scene for evidence.

"Police came to check the traces of gunfire. They emptied their guns on us. Those injured were not taxi drivers but were passers-by and had nothing to do with the fight,"...

[sriracha john]

Thaksin won't return this Christmas : Pongthep

Ousted PM Thaksin will not come back to Thailand this year, according to his Spokesman Pongthep Thepkanjana. "Thaksin has not spoken to me about his return to the country. The last time he phoned me was last week," said the Spokesman. Thaksin's former lawyer and ex-Foreign Minister Noppadon said it would not be safe for the deposed PM be in the country at the moment. "Thaksin would not be safe, even in Thai prisons. What would happen if they let madmen get close to him," said

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132287

[Maverell]

This is a sad day. The film of the person opening fire with a revolver has been rapidly spread around the world. The effect on tourism is going to be enormous.

[Los78]

Pro-government taxi drivers clash with PAD supporters

Some 20 guards of the People's Alliance for Democracy battled pro-government taxi drivers on Vibhavadi Road Tuesday afternoon.

Reporters saw the PAD guards running down from a sound truck when it reached in front of Soi Vibhavadi Rangsit 3 to chase after the taxi drivers.

The taxi drivers used red headbands threw objects as vehicles of the PAD when they driving past to the Suvarnabhumi airport.

Seeing the guards armed with knives and sticks coming to them, the taxi drivers fled into the soi.

The guards then damaged properties at the scene and set fire to three motorcycles.

The guards also attacked a taxi motorcyclists and threatened to harm a cameraman of Thai PBS, who ran for his life.

A taxi driver alleged that the PAD guards also fired at them.

The Nation

- Okay the taxi drivers are notorious for being pro-taksin and anti-pad but I am sure they were unarmed from all footage of the incident and just angry at PAD. But as the highlighted text shows it is clear that: 1. PAD are not peaceful. 2. PAD are armed with handguns, knives, sticks, slingshots. 3. PAD threaten independent media. and 4. Destroy property. NOW can you PAD spokesman tell me your arguements again?? that PAD are a non violent peaceful mob. Get real and accept the facts. I hope the Thai media sees the latest footage and send a nail into PADS coffin.

[jdinasia]

LOS ... I know you are not trolling ... just missing the

The taxi drivers used red headbands threw objects as vehicles of the PAD when they driving past

So the PAD were attacked first. What we need to find out is if the response was appropriate to the attack! (at first blush it does not appear to be, but since they have been attacked so often with bombs etc ....... who knows for sure?)

The American Consular Services section has just sent an email to American in Thailand. I'll look at it later.

[grandpops]

This is a sad day. The film of the person opening fire with a revolver has been rapidly spread around the world. The effect on tourism is going to be enormous.

Like wildfire mate, with the exception of ASTV!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081125/ap_on_...AAf5gTlSSoBxg8F

Anybody with any tourist related business must be up in arms against this mob by now, even if they support the idea of getting rid of Thaksin.

It looks like the Government has given em enough rope as we say, and true to form, the PAD have set about hanging themselves with it.

Strung out and chasing the ghost of Thaksin all over Bangkok all day finally made em snap. Frustrated buy a lack of targets, they decide to run amok.

Easier now to clean em up and start bringing them to heel.

Rich Bangkok people loosing big money now with all those flights that will be cancelled or come in half empty tomorrow. Big Asian confernece going to Chiang Mai with all the loss of money that entails for the capital, in the middle of a recession.

Gonna spell trouble and thats for sure.

Edited November 25, 2008 by grandpops

[sriracha john]

The fighting began when the government supporters began throwing rocks Tuesday at a truck carrying members of the People's Alliance for Democracy as it was returning from Bangkok's old airport, where the group had been holding a rally.

The anti-government group responded by firing slingshots and at least two pistols from their truck, and then gave chase to the attackers.

- Associated Press

[pete_r]

Gotta say I'm curious to see how the PAD people are going to deny that one. "They were not PAD guards, we fired them last week. This was not a PAD truck, we sold it only two days ago." ???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7747886.stm