Army Chief Urged To Stage Coup

[jubby]

Offices in nearby airport locations asked to evacuate by 6pm.

DTAC and other companies sending their workers homes

Got the makings of something..

Most likely means there going to retake the Airport, surely !?

[chutai]

1. The present govenment are committed to their strategy of winning power by elections, parliamentary democracy and money politics.

2. The misnamed PAD and their friends are in favour of military coups, reducing the number of elected parliamentarians and senators and increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. The justification for this is the belief that the poor majority in the country are too stupid to be given the vote. The PAD faction are also fanatical royalists. They want a new coup and were happy to whip up hatred of Cambodia and have border clashes over an ancient Khmer temple. The PAD (sic) strategy, as outlined by Pipop is to create enough political chaos so that institutions and parties are destroyed and a “new order” arises from the ashes. Needless to say, this new order will not be democratic nor committed to social justice and equality.

3, In terms of economic policy, previously the Thaksin faction try to use a “dual track” strategy of mixing neoliberalism with grassroots Keynesianism. They believe that the poor must not be left out and have a record of real pro-poor policies such as the heath care scheme.

4. PAD want todown spending on the poor and to squeeze wages. Income redistribution is ruled out. That is why the poor have consistently voted for the "Thaksin faction". NB Not only because their votes were bought or that as some have suggested, that they're to stupid to know otherwise !!!

All in all it's a tough choice to answer if I'd support another coup. I mean whenever does the cycle break ? When any military led coup decides to hold fair and elections again - and who would win and who wouldn't ? So a few thousand well financed "protesters" can hold a whole country to ransom again = terrorism by any other name.

But there again I'm not a "tankie", but an old liberal democrat who has opposed military coups and invasions since the Soviet Union rolled into Czechoslovakia in 1968.

[Pappiklon]

Cnannel 3 News just now, Coalition MP saying if the army stages a coup he would urge Bangkok residents to oppose it by doing such things as putting their cars in front of Tanks....

Thai Chamber of Commerce urging PM to resign.

[sezze]

The previous elections were democratic . Sure , the parties both hand over money to buy votes , but is is all sites doing that . PPP won and that's it . I hope the army finally does what they are supposed to do . Clear the airport , if necesarry by force and restore order .

[Mosha]

If the shit does hit the fan in BKK. To the guys up there stay safe. I don't think this coup will be like the last one.

[gomatt]

I have been told that there are now soldiers near Suvarnabhumi.

[rainman]

The PRIMARY task here is not figuring out who's going to be in charge of the country, but clearing the airports and restoring international connections to the country. This is completely unacceptable.

[jimjel]

I think I might head up to China and check it out. Thailand is screwed.

[gerrythepoet]

If there's a coup the red shirts will come out in force and be the new trouble makers.

no they won't

The leaders have already said they will come out and fight against the army that takes out their elected government

them and what army, actually they will be the first to pack and hide, oh! i mean run

Giles Ji Ungpakorn, a professor at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok, said the PAD wanted a dictatorship to replace democracy because "they deem the majority of the Thai electorate are too ignorant to deserve the right to vote". He added: "How did PAD thugs manage to seize Bangkok international airport? Airports are supposed to be high security areas. Thai airports are controlled by the Thai military."

So we know the Thai military are involved but to what extent and to whom.

Yes the most important date is next week either candles on a cake or choose what you want to blow out.

The PAD use the democratic process to fight democracy but do not accept the courts rulings this we have seen time and time again and then Thailand reverts to anarchy.

Once the Government aplogised for the heavy handness of the Police on October 7th they gave in to a well engineered plot by PAD.

Remember the group has a Major General on it's team these are not rookies this has been planned for months but contrary to the media they are not in my opinion running out of steam.

The real nutters will be out when it gets dark.

Last week I was threatened by an unsavoury drunk yellow banded thug demanding money on Ramkhamhaeng 22, it was unsettling for nothing really registered except I managed to say f..k off ars..ole.

People looked shock as he clambered up the stairs of a footbridge.

To be honest he did not look Thai but I have never ventured to the deep south he just looked Malaysian.

[OlRedEyes]

A coup is a Banana Republic solution.

Which other solution do you suggest for a Monkey Government?

One coup, everybody will step back and then there is time to think about how to continue? Or do you still believe that PAD and PPP will find an acceptable solution in an acceptable time frame?

The United States of America had a Monkey Government from 2000 - 2004. They stupidly re-elected the Monkey Government again in 2004-2008. Like mature people, the rest of us waited it out until finally we could democratically "overthrow" the Monkey Government in 2008 after a well-run extended campaign in which everyone's views had free expression and the transition of power is orderly. Is that too much to ask?

Again, a coup is an immature short term fix that never really "fixes" it. If a coup really "fixed" the problem, you wouldn't need 17 coups in a row.

A coup teaches the people that...

...the gun is more important than the vote.

...expediency always trumps principle.

...for the Army to own and control most of the important electronic media (4 TV stations, radio, etc.) is an "OK" thing.

...the Army is REALLY the ultimate power that wags the tail of government.

Are you happier with THAT? If you are, you would probably enjoy life much more in Burma where the army finally and permanently "fixed" the problem of political diversity. With every coup, Thailand precariously teeters on the brink of permanently "fixing" things as our SE Asian neighbor has done. Don't forget that Thailand's military brass and Burma's murderous junta have been on "best buddy" terms since just before the 2006 coup. It's just too great a risk, in my opinion.

Yes, democracy is messy, but a coup is a rape of a nation's soul--it flies in the face of 20 centuries of political evolution in which democracy has helped restore value to the voice of the individual, bows to majority rule, and respects the rights of the minority. It doesn't work perfectly, but it's a heck of a lot better than monks and journalists being gunned down in the streets of Rangoon while trying to have the voice of the people heard.

Excellent summation.

[rainman]

The previous elections were democratic . Sure , the parties both hand over money to buy votes , but is is all sites doing that . PPP won and that's it . I hope the army finally does what they are supposed to do . Clear the airport , if necesarry by force and restore order .

There will never be true Democracy in Thailand. At least not until people start earning more than 5,000-7,000 Baht a month. Of course they will accept bribes. And nobody can tell me that Sonthi got his $500 million US Dollars completely legally.

[moo9]

please, explain this to me; I take 500 baht from 1 party, take 500 baht from second party and vote for third party ... how is party 1 and 2 going to know this?? it's a fundamental problem in this whole vote-buying debate ... it doesn't work !!

people don't sell their vote; they need the money to pay for transport and food to be able to vote; in other words; this whole vote buying is actually boosting democracy !

back to you ...

Do a search in the forum for vote buying, you'll find enough examples. And is it a fair vote, when the PPP pays the buses to drive people to their home towns for voting, and other parties do not offer this service. But the transportation is just the top if the iceberg.

You do not seriously argue that there is no vote fraud / buying in the villages...don't you?

[endure]

Just to remind our newer members:

No disrespect of the King of Thailand or The Thai Royal Family! Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden.

[AsiaCheese]

We had a Monkey Government in the USA from 2000 - 2004. We stupidly re-elected the Monkey Government again 2004-2008. Like mature people, the rest of us waited it out until finally we could "overthrow" the Monkey Government in 2008 after a well-run extended campaign in which everyone's views had free expression and the transition of power is orderly. Is that too much to ask?

The Monkey Government there has/had a very well oiled marketing & scaremongering machine, plus pretty sharp teeths: anyone who would have attempted anything even faintly reminicent of PAD's spiel would have collided massively with such terms as "terrorism", "threat to national security" etc. Personally and not being an American, I was really happy that enough people actually woke up before voting this time...

The situation here is somewhat different, and far more complex. I have great difficulties actually discerning a "good guy" from the entire rat-pack that is the collection of potentials for a future government. Each and everyone with heavy interests and links, and with agendas that happen to be the (huge) size of their pockets. No Obama in sight, for sure... In the US, the whole election propaganda was absorbed by (let's be generous here) equally well-educated people across the country, to be digested & turned into votes; here, any half-baked marketing scheme will give huge results "up country". So it's not to be expected that informed decisions are going to make it (for the better of the country) for quite some time to come...

[turbopinda]

The PRIMARY task here is not figuring out who's going to be in charge of the country, but clearing the airports and restoring international connections to the country. This is completely unacceptable.

It is truth what you are saying. The only thing we see in Holland on the news , are tourist that could not return home, because of the fact that some people are holding the airport! This will bring a lot of damage to Thailands image as a friendly tourist country!

[TAWP]

please, explain this to me; I take 500 baht from 1 party, take 500 baht from second party and vote for third party ... how is party 1 and 2 going to know this?? it's a fundamental problem in this whole vote-buying debate ... it doesn't work !!

people don't sell their vote; they need the money to pay for transport and food to be able to vote; in other words; this whole vote buying is actually boosting democracy !

back to you ...

No, it is not. First of all, not all votes are done in secret, where voting booths are turned the wrong way and so on.

Secondly, the vote matters per region (MP), and the people in charge of for instance a smaller village will be approached and made an offer they cannot refuse and they are then very vocal towards their fellow people in how to vote. And if they fail to bring the votes in the village will miss out and most likely suffer lash-back one way or another. Especially if the first down-payment was taken.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

....appalling to read how many posters here are mainly concerned about their personal conveniences and privileges ,like air travel,shame on you.....

Edited November 27, 2008 by uptoyoumyfriend

[asiawatcher]

If common sense was prevalent, it doesn't take blind Freddie to figure, seize an airport - that is a blatant act of terrorism and should be put down in the most severe terms. If they take an airport, what's next?

PAD has lost its support and blown its credibility.

A coup may not be the desired action but when neither party will negotiate and the the country is going rapidly into a vortex disappearing up its own a**hole, so better to settle this with minimal blood shed as red against yellow will be nothing but blood shed and loss of lives.

Stupid moves by legal people and courts - what a joke... court order to leave is ignored and then counter appealed - as if a court can free the airports. Settle this now and quickly as it has to be resolved by then one way or the other.

[benw10]

If there will be a new election the PPP will win again,simply because they represent the majority of the Thais !!!

The majority of votes come from the people which are easy to buy. Please do not misunderstand. I sympathize with the rural and poor population and am of the opinion, that they were neglected by the elite much too long. But the people in power are ruthless. The play with the poor, win their votes by handing out peanuts to continue their high scale corruption.

Unfortunately the rural population does not understand this and after all they are not interested in the stuff, because they struggle with their own daily life and are more than happy to accept every single Baht.

If a new elections come, it should be very closely monitored.

please, explain this to me; I take 500 baht from 1 party, take 500 baht from second party and vote for third party ... how is party 1 and 2 going to know this?? it's a fundamental problem in this whole vote-buying debate ... it doesn't work !!

people don't sell their vote; they need the money to pay for transport and food to be able to vote; in other words; this whole vote buying is actually boosting democracy !

OK we run with that ball....................however in having their vote bought, most ( most!) Thais will be very honouable and vote for the vote buyer, I imagine those in control secure areas for the buying unless they are abosolute fools........................mmmmmmmmmmm

back to you ...

[sabaijai]

Channel 3 reporting Army spokesman saying tanks in Bangkok are nothing to do with a coup attempt, but are vehicles on their way back from a 'training exercise.'

yeah, training for a coup

Exactly!! I wonder how many times a year the army does train for a coup given the history here.

maybe this will be an opportunity for Cambodia to sneak in and take over!

I would prefer Singapore however. we would get cleaner sidewalks.

I am in agreement with the Phillipines in their travel advisory today. This is an immature government. And all kidding aside, I am saddened for the Thai people. This could be such a great place.

Those of us who have weathered umpteen coups and coup attempts and have seen life here go on as usual know that it's still a great place. The country's struggle to build towards a working democracy has been underway for less than 80 years, pinned by historical roots that run very deep. Don't forget that Thailand didn't have a Western political infrastructure to build upon like other countries in the region, most of which nonetheless boast one-party rule.

[rainman]

Of course. There are people who:

- need to go home and work (or face losing their jobs).

- need to go to business meetings.

- (children) who need to go to school.

Many people, especially with the financial crisis, have planned their holidays and especially their budget very carefully. Not everyone can afford to stay an additional few days or weeks in Thailand and pay for food, hotel, etc.

This is ruining not only Thailand's economy, but also the lives of people who came here looking to relax and enjoy their holidays from their hard earned money. They don't deserve this.

PAD needs to clear the airport NOW. Punishing innocent people is NOT the answer.

There is no government and no PPP at the airport. Only innocent people who want to go home.

[lennois]

the thai government is not democratically elected because of all the vote buying that has taken place and other irregularities. if the pad did not have broad support in the population they would have been chased away a long time ago. the whole thing the pad is doing now is to keep the government from changing the constitution to give them a legit platform before the courts will throw them out and disband the parties involved .too bad the courts are so slow.in any case this is a struggle of the thai people to move away from the eternal banana republic and thaksin and family to hold on to power and money. some people don't see that of course but then again there were lots a people voting for mc cain and pailin...

and btw,if you don't understand how the vote buying works then you just don't know anything and maybe you want to come up here to the north and i will explain it to you.it is whole villages that are bought and the pressure is on the village headman if the voting doesn't turn out right.just like under hitler,duh!,if you remember that guy.the fact that there is an election doesn't make it democratic.

and while the army doesn't want to govern they have no other choice when the constitution is tampered with too much.

Vote buying was from both sides - evens out

The PAD support is eroding daily. Going down exponentially every day they sit in the airport. Huge tactical error that but it was to be expected. 100K were supposed to turn up, how many did? 10K at best (nearly all of whom are being paid..)

OK, I'll come up north. While I'm there shall we do an informal poll of who the locals support (no money involved.) I think we all know the outcome.. As we would if they have another election tomorrow with no money involved.

[delboy]

All this chat about vote buying in Thailand makes me smile. The Thais didn't invent it.

Back in the 50's in the UK my parents would tell the Conservative canvasser that they couldn't get to the polling station. The Conservatives would send a car to pick them up on polling day and they'd be taken first to the local Conservative Club for a free drink, then to the polling station, and finally back home. Is that not the same thing.

My parents were staunch Labour supporters and would never vote Conservative.

[bonnylad]

The PRIMARY task here is not figuring out who's going to be in charge of the country, but clearing the airports and restoring international connections to the country. This is completely unacceptable.

A gigantic wooden Elephant has been seen being towed towards the Airport.Looks like the Government is trying to reconcile with PAD.

[xtof2]

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat will declare state of emergency specifically for the Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi International airports to empower police to break the demonstrations, a source said.

The prime minister would not use military forces to deal with the protesters but would use police.

The source said forces from the Metropolitan Police Bureau would be deployed to crack down on protesters at the Don Mueang airport and police from the Provincial Bureau 1 would be used to deal with protesters at the Suvarnabhumi.

The Nation

[rainman]

A gigantic wooden Elephant has been seen being towed towards the Airport.Looks like the Government is trying to reconcile with PAD.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Best post of the day. Thank you for bringing a smile to a sad day

[grandpops]

Well, the Army and PAD must have some support in the country.

I am asking DTAC now. If you are a user there is a link on here

http://www.dtac.co.th/english/contact.html Hope they are HAPPY! to tell its customers that they have not been taking money off us and giving it to a Fascist Coup Monger! Thus ruining our high season.

My Thai friends are asking round as well.

Give em benefit of the doubt and will give us something to do whilst Nero Anupong is fiddling and waiting for his masters to let him off the leash.

EDIT To laugh at the above post. Thank you also!

Edited November 27, 2008 by grandpops

[chutai]

In the US, the whole election propaganda was absorbed by (let's be generous here) equally well-educated people across the country, to be digested & turned into votes...

That's incorrect, seeing that it was poorer black people, the young and women that were the backbone of Barrack Obama's support.

[sezze]

....appalling to read how many posters here are mainly concerned about their personal conveniences and privileges ,like air travel,shame on you.....

Yes and no . Political wise , as a farang these things are not of our concern . It is not our country , so we try to stay out of the discussion . However , by taking the airports , they aim directly at us and at the complete Thai tourist industry and gateways to the world . They can go and protest near government buildings , no problem , have been doing that for 6 months , that is not concerning . Now it is our concern since they made it our concern so face it ... PAD made a gigantic mistake to take the travelling passenger in near hostage situation ( if you cannot go home and forcing you to stay somewhere where you do not want to be , by my name it is called hostage ) .

[h90]

A coup is a Banana Republic solution.

Which other solution do you suggest for a Monkey Government?

One coup, everybody will step back and then there is time to think about how to continue? Or do you still believe that PAD and PPP will find an acceptable solution in an acceptable time frame?

We had a Monkey Government in the USA from 2000 - 2004. We stupidly re-elected the Monkey Government again 2004-2008. Like mature people, we waited it out until finally we could throw out the Monkey Government in 2008 after a well-run extended campaign where everyone's views had free expression. Is that too much to ask?

Again, a coup is an immature short term fix that never really "fixes" it. If a coup really "fixed" the problem, you wouldn't need 17 coups in a row, right? All it does is teach the populace that the gun is more important than the vote. It makes people believe that for the Army to own and control most of the important electronic media (4 TV stations, radio, etc.) is an "OK" thing. It teaches people that the Army is REALLY the ultimate power that wags the tail of government. Are you happier with THAT?

And that cost 1.000.0000-1.500.000 Million lifes. If the Army would staged a coup all these people would be still alive. You can't fix that anymore.

Would you care to compare that figure to the untold millions of lives lost to rapacious military despots and dictators over the centuries?

So let me get this right: As a result of the USA Monkey Government's mistakes of 2000-2008, you prefer that the USA today be run by a military dictator? The remaining superoower wielding its sword at the whim of one man, without ANY checks and balances? Don't forget history's lessons of Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, Iddi Ammin, etc. What a short-sighted view you take!

Hitler was democratic elected and some military considered a coup. It would have been a good idea. A military coup does not mean military dictator. See the last coup in Thailand. There was no ugly dictator, just a temporary (stupid, but in compare to now not so stupid) government and than elections again.