Good Samaritans stop Pattaya transwoman stealing from German

[animatic]

Quite amazing 50/50 split on a coup in Thai Visa land...

Can we wonder any longer why the Thais themselves are having a problem with all this?

[Plus]

Or the govt heeds the advice and dissolves the House.

No bloodshed, no coups, everything is solved legally and democratically.

But, of course, as long as govt policy is dictated by the phonecalls from Dubai, Thailand does not have a democracy.

[siam4ever]

Or the govt heeds the advice and dissolves the House.

No bloodshed, no coups, everything is solved legally and democratically.

But, of course, as long as govt policy is dictated by the phonecalls from Dubai, Thailand does not have a democracy.

These phone calls are the only hope for Thailand. These yellow bound terrorists must perish!!!

[Samuian]

Although I do not straighout support a coup I believe the answer is simple.

The governments immediately takes decisive action and restores order .

The present government is declared incompetent. The Army takes action and restores order.

The Peolpe return to the polls vote in another goverment - The whole cycle starts again.

Pretty simple.

The sad part is it may take some bloodshed to break the cycle.

One reason we may not have had a coup yet is that this time if there is one there will not be a return to the usual cycle but a complete change in what comes next.

Earlier this week Gen. Anupong said if I as army chief launch a coup it will be final and resolve everything. That can be read in many ways but does seem to imply he is aware that it will be a win or lose situation and that he recognizes bloodshed will happen.

strong resolve is it?

then The Nation enlightens it's readers with:

By The Nation

Published on November 28, 2008

Anupong said to have exchanged phone ultimatums with Somchai

and the Bangkok Post comes up with an editorial like this:

.....a nervous-looking Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat goes on TV to tell us that he has received a set of decorations from the Peruvian government!

What a thoughtless, tactless, unintelligent move from a country's leader.

If PM Somchai - who appeared timid and haggard, more like an old turkey about to be slaughtered than an internal security chief - wanted to publicly turn down Gen Anupong Paojinda's recommendation that he dissolve the House to prevent the political crisis from boiling over (if it hasn't already!), why couldn't he say so in a clear and coherent manner?

He could have taken the opportunity to speak to the Thai public and the international community - who have been holding their collective breath for a few days after the airport siege and desperately need to exhale - about how he would proceed to defuse the situation.

Instead, he went on and on about the mundane issue of what his government has achieved but failed to advertise. Does anyone want to know more about the government's dust-free streets project now?

I can sympathise with people who accuse Mr Somchai of being a puppet of his famous brother-in-law. He does look like a puppet, after all. The country is on the brink of a civil war and he had nothing to offer but the awkward stuttering over a poorly-prepared script which did not address the serious issue at hand.

As people are literally being beaten to death because of the colour of their shirts or their presumed association, the premier told Thais to play the proud and generous host to expatriates during the upcoming Asean summit, so that the world may appreciate our ability and potential.

Did the PM just go to Peru, or to outer space? Doesn't he realise there might be no Asean summit unless he puts his brains to work and frees Suvarnabhumi from the siege?

I can't call on PM Somchai to resign now, as it would mean bowing to what is essentially tantamount to an act of terrorism by the protesters. The PAD can't be allowed to enjoy any sense of triumph after its damaging aggression at the airport and they must be taken into account for their treacherous act.

However, Mr Somchai and his cabinet must realise that it is their complete ineptitude - selfishness in some cases - that gives life to the PAD. It is their flaws which give the PAD a reason to exist. They are the "government." They are here to "govern" the country", not to outwit the PAD at all costs.

fulee article here:

ah...well ... how much longer will he ist on his hands, trying to follow the orders of man behind the scenes, but in a safe distance..?

While doing so, letting things escalate ever further this premier including his fellow politicians have lost their credibility.

But then who knows what the next move will be in this crazy roller coaster...

[hammered]

Although I do not straighout support a coup I believe the answer is simple.

The governments immediately takes decisive action and restores order .

The present government is declared incompetent. The Army takes action and restores order.

The Peolpe return to the polls vote in another goverment - The whole cycle starts again.

Pretty simple.

The sad part is it may take some bloodshed to break the cycle.

One reason we may not have had a coup yet is that this time if there is one there will not be a return to the usual cycle but a complete change in what comes next.

Earlier this week Gen. Anupong said if I as army chief launch a coup it will be final and resolve everything. That can be read in many ways but does seem to imply he is aware that it will be a win or lose situation and that he recognizes bloodshed will happen.

strong resolve is it?

then The Nation enlightens it's readers with:

By The Nation

Published on November 28, 2008

Anupong said to have exchanged phone ultimatums with Somchai

and the Bangkok Post comes up with an editorial like this:

.....a nervous-looking Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat goes on TV to tell us that he has received a set of decorations from the Peruvian government!

What a thoughtless, tactless, unintelligent move from a country's leader.

If PM Somchai - who appeared timid and haggard, more like an old turkey about to be slaughtered than an internal security chief - wanted to publicly turn down Gen Anupong Paojinda's recommendation that he dissolve the House to prevent the political crisis from boiling over (if it hasn't already!), why couldn't he say so in a clear and coherent manner?

He could have taken the opportunity to speak to the Thai public and the international community - who have been holding their collective breath for a few days after the airport siege and desperately need to exhale - about how he would proceed to defuse the situation.

Instead, he went on and on about the mundane issue of what his government has achieved but failed to advertise. Does anyone want to know more about the government's dust-free streets project now?

I can sympathise with people who accuse Mr Somchai of being a puppet of his famous brother-in-law. He does look like a puppet, after all. The country is on the brink of a civil war and he had nothing to offer but the awkward stuttering over a poorly-prepared script which did not address the serious issue at hand.

As people are literally being beaten to death because of the colour of their shirts or their presumed association, the premier told Thais to play the proud and generous host to expatriates during the upcoming Asean summit, so that the world may appreciate our ability and potential.

Did the PM just go to Peru, or to outer space? Doesn't he realise there might be no Asean summit unless he puts his brains to work and frees Suvarnabhumi from the siege?

I can't call on PM Somchai to resign now, as it would mean bowing to what is essentially tantamount to an act of terrorism by the protesters. The PAD can't be allowed to enjoy any sense of triumph after its damaging aggression at the airport and they must be taken into account for their treacherous act.

However, Mr Somchai and his cabinet must realise that it is their complete ineptitude - selfishness in some cases - that gives life to the PAD. It is their flaws which give the PAD a reason to exist. They are the "government." They are here to "govern" the country", not to outwit the PAD at all costs.

fulee article here:

ah...well ... how much longer will he ist on his hands, trying to follow the orders of man behind the scenes, but in a safe distance..?

While doing so, letting things escalate ever further this premier including his fellow politicians have lost their credibility.

But then who knows what the next move will be in this crazy roller coaster...

Thaksin is safely in Dubai and suing his proxy who is relatively safe in his home in Chaing Mai and using his proxies to do things in Bangkok. It is quite surreal. The PM should be in Bangkok looking strong.

[Plus]

But, of course, as long as govt policy is dictated by the phonecalls from Dubai, Thailand does not have a democracy.

These phone calls are the only hope for Thailand. These yellow bound terrorists must perish!!!

A little correction:

These phone calls are the only hope for Thaksinland.

[Bangyai]

tonight is Thursday night, tomorrow is Friday, Friday mean there are no work for the next two day, more people will come out.

Yes, they have the right to deter foreign investment and make themselves unemployed . Next year they will be able to protest every day without hinderance.

[hammered]

Here is a classic from the Nation:

PM has no schedule to return to Bangkok, apparently fearing coup: spokeswoman

Rest of story at: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089674

It seems we truly have a government in hiding as the endgame nears.

[SabaiBKK]

I think it is better for tourism, if the elected government is seen to be strong enough to direct the police/army to remove the protesters from ALL of the places it occupies.

The current perception is that Thailand has "Mob Rule", this is no good for any trade be it tourism, business or anything else!

FF

ohh because a corrupt government led by a criminal in exile is good for trade and investors confidence? what world are you living in?

the perception abroad by most people with more than one braincell is that Thai people are over with being sheeps accepting anything from corrupt government who not only rob the country dry to feed their offshore bank accounts but also infringe on personal freedom and freedom of speech.... if Thaksin did not behave like a tyrant muzzling free speech the PAD would not exist ... previous governments were as corrupt as the TRT/PPP but at least they were letting people live their lives as they wanted.

the difference between democracy and dictatorship is simple :

democracy = yeah yeah whatever

dictatorship = shut the <deleted> up

( for those who don't understand the above: in a democracy the government don't listen to the people in a dictatorship the government don't let the people speak it's the only difference but I by far prefer democracy as at least you are free to vent your frustration)

as simple as that

[SabaiBKK]

Here is a classic from the Nation:

PM has no schedule to return to Bangkok, apparently fearing coup: spokeswoman

Rest of story at: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089674

It seems we truly have a government in hiding as the endgame nears.

i hope this time the coup makers will have some balls to do the cleanup they should have done 2 years ago.

the 1996 coup was made by little girls, all the TRT execs should have been thrown to jail for at least 5 years and we would not be where we are now.

[jdrake72]

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

Coup would make things worse, it will not solve anything.

Thailand has had lots of coups and after few years the same situation repeats.

It will restore law and order for few weeks ,mnths, than they will organize new elections, PPP party will change name with new Thaksin proxies, PAD will protest and call for a new coup.

Thailand is set for a long long period of instability, chaos and sooner or later it will get to a unavoidable bloodshed.

There is no light in sight out of the tunnel.

I am very sad for the situation since I am married to a Thai woman, but I try to be realistic.

The country is split apart and in the middle term it can even risk a civil war between Northern provinces and central provinces.

This puppet government is led by a proxy of a criminal, yes, but I am afraid the big fish against him are 10 times more criminal, thieves and they have thousands of people innocent Thai students dead in the past decades.

Takhsin is a white dove compared to those bunch of scumbags who have systematically stole for decades ,killing people by thousands and keep poor Thais like slaves still today with 150 euro a month without a pension.

Who is the worse ?

Edited November 28, 2008 by jdrake72

[TheJoker]

Monarchie is okay, but not a constitutional monarchie

[Plus]

They should give bail to Pojamarn in exchange for her persuading Somchai to dissolve the House.

Ultimately both Somchai and Anupong are only proxies. Real decisions are revolved around Thaksin's money - we might see House dissolution in echange for dropping the suit, but then PAD will not accept this.

I'm sure there are other possibilities to explore, especially with Pojamarn being on her own now.

76 bil is a lot of money, but she also has a lot more in real estate, all to her name.

[girlx]

have they still done nothing? what is the latest news? i would have thought something would happen overnight.

[stub]

If there will be a new election the PPP will win again,simply because they represent the majority of the Thais !!!

The majority of votes come from the people which are easy to buy. Please do not misunderstand. I sympathize with the rural and poor population and am of the opinion, that they were neglected by the elite much too long. But the people in power are ruthless. The play with the poor, win their votes by handing out peanuts to continue their high scale corruption.

Unfortunately the rural population does not understand this and after all they are not interested in the stuff, because they struggle with their own daily life and are more than happy to accept every single Baht.

If a new elections come, it should be very closely monitored.

please, explain this to me; I take 500 baht from 1 party, take 500 baht from second party and vote for third party ... how is party 1 and 2 going to know this?? it's a fundamental problem in this whole vote-buying debate ... it doesn't work !!

people don't sell their vote; they need the money to pay for transport and food to be able to vote; in other words; this whole vote buying is actually boosting democracy !

back to you ...

Your personal vote doesn't count. The result of the electorate is what counts. If enough people do what you suggest, then the wrong party wins and nobody gets the promised rewards or someone gets made an example of in a very nasty way. Next time, people do what they are supposed to. Also, many people consider that behavior dishonest. Vote buying works well in many places, not just rural Thailand. This is why the world over there are electoral watchdogs looking for it and hopefully punishing it when it is discovered.

[Publicus]

Here is a classic from the Nation:

PM has no schedule to return to Bangkok, apparently fearing coup: spokeswoman

Rest of story at: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089674

It seems we truly have a government in hiding as the endgame nears.

i hope this time the coup makers will have some balls to do the cleanup they should have done 2 years ago.

the 1996 coup was made by little girls, all the TRT execs should have been thrown to jail for at least 5 years and we would not be where we are now.

It's been clear the army doesn't want to conduct a coup because of the bloodshed that would occur.

However, no one is in charge. The elites, anyway, always have run Thailand. If Thaksin is allowed to return, there will be the People's Republic of Thailand elite.

Thais don't care about world opinion. They only care which elite is in power.

The coup would insure that the PRT elites disappear once and for all.

Messy, yes.

So be it.

[Artisi]

There was some talk awhile back that Anupong may have come into a large sum of money from a kind benefactor, this could well be why he is now sitting on his hands. Has this "large sum" even been confirmed or looked into - as this could help explain the reluctance to move forward as a means to end the current impasse.

[TAWP]

Totally outsmarted and outwitted PAD and the Army. The Army didn't help PAD with their coup because they were cleverly boxed in by the Government AND secondly because they are a Fascist mob in a blind rage and have been accepted as such by almost the entire world.

PAD are the villains this time and little Somchai is coming to the rescue.

And if you could reciprocate with a list of PAD achievements this week please!

Coup No

Army takes out government NO

Thaksin in Jail NO

Embarrassed country and made it laughing stock YES

Embarrased HM by dragging his good name and reputation into their sleazy vendetta against Thaksin YES

Lost the support of their business backers and banks who are well on the run now YES

Lost the country billions of DOLLARS YES

Screwed the High season YES

Brainwashed a few thousand morons into supporting their cause YES

Sorry got to go for a fag. More later

so their only accomplishment is that they outwitted PAD, thats kind of debatable considering PAD are occupying the airport as we speak but what I was meaning is what have they done to improve the lot of the average Thai?

Not very good at this are you? You remind me of the Life of Brian sketch "apart from the roads, the law and order, the clean water etc. etc. WHAT have the romans ever done for us"

Better to think first, think again, write, read then post. not bad effort but not good enough for any more replies from me.

Bye

As usual you had to flame the guy...

Listen, it's very simple: You list isn't a list of accomplishments for a government to be proud over. It's a really-really-really short list. And not one that would win them any elections if used as slogans. Presenting how bad PAD is is hardly a case that speaks in PPPs favour.

[hammered]

There was some talk awhile back that Anupong may have come into a large sum of money from a kind benefactor, this could well be why he is now sitting on his hands. Has this "large sum" even been confirmed or looked into - as this could help explain the reluctance to move forward as a means to end the current impasse.

Except it is reported he has 22 battalions on standby and has the government too scared to come within 500km of him and unless they try to oust him he is not going to launch any coup until he is ready which means when he can guarantee maximum public sympathy for the action. This will happen when it looks like the PAD have gone insane (achieved), the government have lost control and the redshirts are out on a beating binge. That is if we are to believe there is going to be a coup.

[stub]

I am completely surprised that so many seem to favor a coup!!!

It should not require a coup for the police and army to do their job and maintain the peace. Their job is to maintain the peace, not take out the government. There has even been a court order for PAD to leave the airport, just go and enforce it.

People should also start suing the PAD leaders for damages caused for the disruptions to businesses, the estimated quote I heard on the radio was around 1 billion baht a day. I wonder if they would be willing to foot that bill.

This is just getting ridiculous...

I think more and more people are looking for a savior. Even those who previously supported one side or the other are coming to the conclusion that both sides are rotten and neither should win.

A coup seems the best option as that savior to many people. Last time they were honest enough to state their intentions and pretty much stick to it. This time it might work too - they have more experience at governing now and rationale to take a harder line and toss everyone in jail this time. Maybe all the criminals will be tossed in jail, leaving nobody to run for PM except for a 68 year old monk with vow of silence and a precocious 8 year old, but many people would consider this a better leadership than what the current options are.

[tijnebijn]

The funny thing is , which is not funny at all , some other real reasons why

this chess game in Thai politics is entering a never ending story , is because .......

I know I am vague , but all the Thais I know know it , and its something which is not allowed

to discuss in here , rightfully so .

So wherever the discussions go in this thread and all the others , it will have a dead end !

[ChiefBEM]

What are the options?

Option A: No one does anything.

Not good !!!

Option B: The police storm into the PAD representatives.

Not good! Many many people will not survive an armed confrontation.

Option C: Members of the Thaksin regime resign their government posts.

Maybe a good thing. The country could stop being a potential battleground.

When the TRT party was directed to be disolved and leaders were prohibited from participating in government affairs, everyone became members of the PPP party and after winning the elections controversy continued.

Also, keep in mind that the PM being Thaksin's brother-in-law does not mean that Thaksin is still influencing the government.

However, Thaksin did brag to UK news that his brother-in-law sent him a diplomatic pouch which requested that he provide a list of who should be placed into Cabinet level positions.

Option D: PM holds direct talks (across a table) to seek a resolution through compromise.

This is an unusual concept.

Option E: The Army, Navy, and Air Force lead a government coup.

Maybe the best option. However, if this happens, the military has to be prepared to place a temporary bi-particent team composed of every major political party in control of the government.

We pray that a higher power be looking over the people Thailand.

[Danton]

The funny thing is , which is not funny at all , some other real reasons why

this chess game in Thai politics is entering a never ending story , is because .......

I know I am vague , but all the Thais I know know it , and its something which is not allowed

to discuss in here , rightfully so .

So wherever the discussions go in this thread and all the others , it will have a dead end !

The tide is turning, and no force in the world can stop that.

[sabaijai]

Those of us who have weathered umpteen coups and coup attempts and have seen life here go on as usual know that it's still a great place. The country's struggle to build towards a working democracy has been underway for less than 80 years, pinned by historical roots that run very deep. Don't forget that Thailand didn't have a Western political infrastructure to build upon like other countries in the region, most of which nonetheless boast one-party rule.

It would, sadly, appear though that in those 'less than 80 years' (is this a short period?) very little or no progress has been made.

Any reading of modern Thai history says otherwise.

In Thailand's first 16 years as a constitutional monarchy there were 28 different administrations. In the late 40s and 50s there were as many as three coups in a year in some years. Army factions fought each other in the countryside. Army and police fought each other in the countryside. In 1949 the army and the marines fought each other in the streets of Bangkok, causing a huge amount of damage and a death toll no one has since accurately tallied. In the mid 1970s hundreds were slaughtered in civil battles between the student-worker-farmer federations and the Nawaphon and Red Gaur. Grenades and homemade bombs exploded on city buses and in public areas of Bangkok on an almost daily basis during much of the 1970s. Things have gradually got better over the 76 years as a constitutional monarchy and since the 1980s there have even been a few 5- to 8-year stretches of peace - whether under military rule or under elected governments.

But Kansas it ain't.

[rainman]

The funny thing is , which is not funny at all , some other real reasons why

this chess game in Thai politics is entering a never ending story , is because .......

We know, but we don't say.

[stub]

Call it buying vote if you want. Every party in every country promise some kind of kick back if they are elected. Tax cut, jobs, underground train, new airport, fuel subsidy, free money, etc. I see nothing wrong with that. In Malaysia this year, government hand out 600 MYR (about 6,000 Baht) to EVERY CAR OWER to help on counter fuel hike (and Malaysia fuel price is lower than Thailand). Bribing voters? It can be view that way by the opposition.

There is nothing stopping other parties promising to give 100 Million Baht to every village (or even every citizen) as a developement fund (or call it anything legal you like). It is the action that counts. TRT delivers their promise (1 million for every village), which keep the poor voters very happy as they use it to buy, amoung other things, mobile phone and pickup trucks. The voters keep voting for him (and his proxy) is expecting to get more and more indirect kick-backs. Any government who promise and don't deliver (cash, project, whatever), might not get voter the next time. People do remember.

Yes. Stated policies that allow people to decide how they vote. Now that Issan has woken up to their power, I'm sure every political party will need to distribute some of that wealth if they want a hope of winning. I guess this is why PAD are trying for less elected representation - even if PPP and associates are all tossed in jail the cat is out of the bag and the money will keep flowing to rural areas. Its taken a while for Thailand to catch up to Aristotle, but they have caught up. "... in democracies the poor are more powerful than the rich, because there are more of them and whatever is decided by the majority is sovereign."

This is very different to under the table cash handouts to locals in positions of authority to ensure victory, and the tactics used by these locals to ensure the result. This is just corruption, causing cash to go into the pockets of the overlords rather than towards the needs of the people.

[digitele]

The funny thing is , which is not funny at all , some other real reasons why

this chess game in Thai politics is entering a never ending story , is because .......

We know, but we don't say.

PAD Prehistoric One against Development

[MrSnrang]

The sad truth is that the only way out is for there to be a long-standing coup or the assassination of several politicians.

Thaksin will never serve a day in the jail sentence that he deserves, his cohorts will go on unpunished. If the unpopular general responsible for the death of several during 1992 went unpunished, surely this criminal with the support of the North can only return to politics.

If Thaksin was a decent man he would accept and admit his guilt and disappear from Thai politics. Then his party could either continue to spread populist economic policies and govern with honesty and itegrity, or continue to operate under the guise of both while being more discrete with skimming money off of the top.

[Wolfie]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089700

Govt to enlist help from Thaksin if coups staged

The government will enlist help from former prime minister Thasksin Shinawatra if a coup is staged against the administration, government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said Friday.

He said thaksin would make phone calls to direct the resistance against the coup on around-the-clock basis.

"If a coup is staged, thaksin will fight against it along side with Thais. He can make phone calls to us 24 hours a day," Natthawut said.

The nation

[hammered]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089700

Govt to enlist help from Thaksin if coups staged

The government will enlist help from former prime minister Thasksin Shinawatra if a coup is staged against the administration, government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said Friday.

He said thaksin would make phone calls to direct the resistance against the coup on around-the-clock basis.

"If a coup is staged, thaksin will fight against it along side with Thais. He can make phone calls to us 24 hours a day," Natthawut said.

The nation

It sounds like panic in the government ranks right now