Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[HYENA]

I believe that you should have the democratic right to protest a government , I DON'T believe you have the right to involve Transport Hub safety & effect others doing it.

Thousands of protesters sitting in the airport terminal doesn't effect safety. It effects money, every hour they're there it's costing millions of lost sales to the airport, the stores, the resaurants, etc.

PAD supporters have been at my Soi's market all evening offering up to 700 Baht a day for anyone coming to protest at the airport. And they have pick-up trucks waiting to be loaded with people before they drive off. They offered it to my wife and her friend while I was standing besides them. Proof enough? Come see it for yourself if you're still ignorant.

No, it's not and please don't resort to personal attacks calling me ignorant just because I demand proof to your claims. Now, do you have evidence? Like a video, audio, pictures? Rumours from the opposition isn't evidence, it's barely a rumour. I'm willing to listen if you give me something more then unverified facts which can not be verified.

They really do pay people...usually for high profile protests. First looking for free supporters, food, etc. Not sure how much but some people who have gotten the calls have been offered a nice amount compared to a typical day's work. Nothing gets done unless someone's paid or it affects money...everything is money money money in Thailand (everyone knows that)!

[phibunmike]

Do you think that it is possible that Somchai has actually played this scenario rather cleverly, and isn't as ineffective as he is usually given credit for?

If he had brought in the police or army earlier to control the protesters, he would have been censured internationally, and would have invoked a huge backlash locally against "strong arm" tactics, bringing more onto the side of PAD, and invoking memories of earlier bloody put-downs. By waiting until the 11th hour, when so many are crying out for forces of law and order to restore normalcy to the airports and streets, he will have support, even if there are a few casualties. "Unavoidable", people will say; "they deserved it". Simultaneously, he has allowed PAD to shoot themselves in the foot with their tactics, trying to bait him into action.

So perhaps he has been more strategic than we think?

Cheers,

Mike

[SabaiBKK]

You cannot have people taking over airports under any circumstances and they need to me removed ASAP by any means no other country in the world would allow the takeover of there main airport.

All this talk of new elections is stupid PPP will just be voted back in again Somchai has only just become PM give the guy a chance

Its a democratically elected government that has already had a coup against it and survived and were revoted in they chased the next PM out and a new one was appointed the majority of the peoples voice is clear with the exception of the elitists and privaleged few that obviously dont want democracy here in Thailand.

I hope the police get in there and clean this mess up right away.

I'm sick and tired of reading ignorant people speaking of " democratically elected government" THEY BOUGHT THE VOTES for crying out loud !!!! and they are thieves, a very well run mafia.

i have no sympathy for the PAD and Sondhi in particular but they are just a symptom of the cancer that is Thaksin for Thailand.

to cure a cancer you have to eradicate the tumor (which is currently hiding in Dubai laughing all the way to the bank.)

[Fore Man]

A passing thought...even if the National Police are successful in eradicating the PAD's hired hands that took over the airports, I would not bet that these facilities will be open for normal business anytime soon. Unless the raid is swiftly and violently prosecuted with overwhelming force, there is a good chance that most of the airport infrastructure will be mutilated or destroyed by the vandals. These crazed thugs will stop at nothing to break everything they can before the tear gas or rubber bullets force them away. By definition, the clearance operation itself will cause damage. Count on heavy glass breakage and quite possibly fires that are accidentally or deliberately started. All of the airports concessions will be vandalized or heavily damaged as well. This could be real messy both in terms of human misery and collateral physical damage.

I see that TG is going to set up alternate operations at U-Tapao so that should help provide interim airport operations. U-Tapao does not have the necessary infrastructure to handle passengers and baggage of the magnitude needed, but it is a start on the road to recovery.

As for the operations this evening, again the keys are to project overwhelming force, and do it swiftly and make it sufficiently violent...make the announcement to clear immediately or be prepared to shed a lot of tears and possibly blood. Give them an adequate suspense time to clear the premises and then open up if there is further resistance. If the opposition attempts to repulse the police operation with anything other than fists or nonlethal weapons, it's time to draw ball ammunition, lock and load and change the ROE while underway. They had their chance but blew it; now they are common criminals and terrorists attempting to usurp or defy government authority. If the police fail to mount this correctly, it will be another useless line drawn in the sand and bring Thailand closer to the spectre of a full and brutal military takeover. Yes, I am retired military and in most cases abhor the blatant use of force but that's the way I see it.

God and Buddha bless their miserable souls; the little, common people sucked into these 'peaceful' demonstrations have been cajoled and hoodwinked into a disaster in the making. No matter what the outcome, the PAD ringleaders themselves deserve nothing less than life sentences for insurrection and civil terrorism.

[Moonrakers]

The Somchai Government was democratically elected. If PAD thinks the PPP bought votes their only crime was to buy more votes than PAD.

The Government has been remarkably tolerant of the paid PAD demonstrators so far but as this is clearly the PAD's last desperate throw of the dice. They have to act.

They have warned the demonstrators what is about to happen so anyone staying wants a fight. Any person staying there with women and children would be clearly deranged.

If the supporters of PAD want to form the next government perhaps they should go away and talk to the people who didn't vote them and try and find policies that will get them elected. This is what you do in a democracy.

For the love of Thailand pack your bags and go home . You have made your point but it was rejected.

This is getting tiresome.

TV should have a generic cut and paste reply to posts such as this.

[pippomusic]

please,

do somebody have trusted sources of informations or proof that PAD is paying protesters?

[TexasRanger]

please,

do somebody have trusted sources of informations or proof that PAD is paying protesters?

How much more do you want, up country it is common, I have witnessed it with my own eyes and ears. They are paying and in the case of govt house help people against their will when they wanted to go home, these were friends of mine. It is true.

[rafval]

blood in that airport will cost the country far more then continued protests, not to mention being more or less unconstitutional I would have thought

[jdinasia]

The Somchai Government was democratically elected. If PAD thinks the PPP bought votes their only crime was to buy more votes than PAD.

The Government has been remarkably tolerant of the paid PAD demonstrators so far but as this is clearly the PAD's last desperate throw of the dice. They have to act.

They have warned the demonstrators what is about to happen so anyone staying wants a fight. Any person staying there with women and children would be clearly deranged.

If the supporters of PAD want to form the next government perhaps they should go away and talk to the people who didn't vote them and try and find policies that will get them elected. This is what you do in a democracy.

For the love of Thailand pack your bags and go home. You have made your point but it was rejected.

This is getting tiresome.

TV should have a generic cut and paste reply to posts such as this.

LOL ... it would be simple to do

PAD didn't "buy votes" and that is certain since the PAD has never run for office and is not a registered political party.

[TAWP]

The Somchai Government was democratically elected. If PAD thinks the PPP bought votes their only crime was to buy more votes than PAD.

/.../

If the supporters of PAD want to form the next government perhaps they should go away and talk to the people who didn't vote them and try and find policies that will get them elected. This is what you do in a democracy.

When posters have this love level of understanding it's really proving the point that democracy will never, truly, work...and that people will rant about things they have no clue about. Heck, they are even prepared to go to war/fight over their allusions of reality.

[melancholia]

This is just getting ridiculous now. You can't just act like petulant children and block up whole airports to prove a point -- that isn't going to get them anywhere except in huge trouble with law enforcement and government. Plus its going to severely effect the Thai economy if tourists and businessmen e.t.c. can't get into the country -- and no one's going to want to come in for a while now when they see all this on the news. Can't this be solved any other way than by blocking up a whole country's transportation services? Sorry if this sounds like ranting but my Thai b/f is in hospital near death and I can't get to him because of all this so its making me just a bit angry. Also we already went through all these PAD sit-ins in September and as far as I saw it did very little good.

[fidelio]

please,

do somebody have trusted sources of informations or proof that PAD is paying protesters?

This is Thailand for Christ's sake.

Everyone, top to bottom , is corrupt to the bone.

[farseer]

I hope Thaksin comes back and kicks some ass next time around and he was "democratically" elected.

Somchai will survive this little escapade as PAD's popularity among the "supposedly" intelligent, like the university bozos, has been leaking steadily away for a while now.

[grandpops]

please,

do somebody have trusted sources of informations or proof that PAD is paying protesters?

This is Thailand for Christ's sake.

Everyone, top to bottom , is corrupt to the bone.

Seconded. How do people manage to get though life being so naive! Proof

[FreedomDude]

Certainly ,doesn't sound good.

No, no, NO NO NOOOO!! Stop saying this!! This sounds GREAT!

It's about <deleted> time they did something!!

They've been sitting on their ass doing nothing as the PAD took over the roads, then took over the Governement House, the PMs office, the TV station.

They have done ABSOLUTELY 100% NOTHING!!!! NOTHING AT ALLL, FER CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!!!!

Some things are worth fighting for!!!!!!!! I'm sorry, its stinks, but yes, people might die!

It is worth it!!!! You don't hold the well-being of the entire nation hostage cause some people might get killed. Where do you draw the line??? They've crossed any rational person's line in the sand MONTHS AGO. One of the biggest myths is that the loss of even one human life is priceless and to be avoided at all costs. Horsecrap! How many "lifetimes of wages" have been robbed from Thailand due to the actions of these babies? Whatever Thaksin may have skimmed off the top is peanuts compared to the cost to Thailand imposed by the PAD.

[BowmoreIslay]

I don't think you should be the person throwing around accusations like that seeming as you're loyties are very anti-PAD. If you have proof then show it. I don't like nonsensical claims.

PAD supporters have been at my Soi's market all evening offering up to 700 Baht a day for anyone coming to protest at the airport. And they have pick-up trucks waiting to be loaded with people before they drive off. They offered it to my wife and her friend while I was standing besides them. Proof enough? Come see it for yourself if you're still ignorant.

Can you please provide a weblink to your proof.

[personchester]

the government was NOT democratically elected therefore PPP will get dissolved if they can't change the laws.

the PPP just got 1/3 of the votes and most of the coalition partner promised before the election that they would never make a coalition with PPP.

Sorry to busy your fantasy land bubble, but the government WAS democratically elected.

And if you come up with the bribes that the PPP supposedly gave to voters, how do you answer to the fact that the PAD is paying every demonstrator at the airport? Isn't that bribing too? Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

I am afraid you are wrong on both counts, the current government was not elected democratically, since a large percentage of their votes were bought, moreover, the current "P.M." was not elected as P.M. by the electorate per se, that vote was given to former PM. Samak.

As to your second point , The PAD protestors are not being bribed to take part in the PAD movement , they are being paid for the lost hours of work in their jobs, those people cannot demonstrate for months without having an income of sorts.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Any PAD supporters still holed up at the airport have ZERO sympathy from me if they get hurt or killed. They know what they did, they know what's coming. You can't just seize an international airport and expect to be greeted with flowers and cookies.

If they had seized the JFK or L.A. airport, it would have ended a long time ago, and probably much worse than the Thai police will hopefully end it tonight. As far as I'm concerned, if you run past security at the JFK or L.A. airport, protesting something or not, you get shot in the back before you get anywhere. The Thai government and police have been more than patient, but enough is enough.

Sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures rainman. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but when you believe in something with all your heart, then you put it all on the line. No half measures. And that's what the PAD is doing. To the extent that they are not bearing arms, they have enormous sympathy from me if they are injured or killed. Apart from some isolated incidents, they have been protesting peacefully.

I work in the tourism industry and this is a huge blow. I may lose my job. Of course I wish they would get out. But this isn't my country and I do believe in peaceful protests.

At any rate, I see no real solution in sight. Perhaps we need a good old fashioned dictator.

[hungryhippo]

They really do pay people...usually for high profile protests. First looking for free supporters, food, etc. Not sure how much but some people who have gotten the calls have been offered a nice amount compared to a typical day's work. Nothing gets done unless someone's paid or it affects money...everything is money money money in Thailand (everyone knows that)!

Then prove it. Audio, video, picture. Anything we can take seriously and verify the claims being made.

I hope Thaksin comes back and kicks some ass next time around and he was "democratically" elected.

The courts seem to disagree with you and Thaksin ran away rather then face sentencing, so I disagree that he was democratically elected.

To the extent that they are not bearing arms, they have enormous sympathy from me if they are injured or killed.

The other day they were shooting people, so I disagree with your "they are not bearing arms". Before you try to deny it, it was them. You can easily verify the trucks in the shooting video and the pictures of trucks at the airport used in the protest.

Edited November 27, 2008 by hungryhippo

[corkman]

I am not trying to incite any kind of arguement > this is a general & simple question:

From what I can gather,

5% of the people in Thialand have 95% of the wealth, thus 95% of the "power".....

The policy of Thaksins crowd generally is not conducive to the preferences of that 5% of people......

However, 95% of the people do support Thaksins crowd > and hence they keep getting electec, by popular vote....

BUT > the 5% of wealthy people are not happy with that result, so they keep on trying to get "new" gouvernment....

........if I am remotely correct, I have porobably over hugely simplified it...... but is that the general idea..... (percentages of weath and electorate are purely guessed, obvisouly).....

If this is so, it sounds very much like an Irish Referendum.......

As someone who knows VERY LITTLE (read as nothing) about Thai politics, it appears from the outside that the so called PAD are just pursuing their own agenda, under a weak fascade of patriotism > and are very much in the minority..... i.e. representing their own agenda, not the "interests" of their country men....... right or wrong as this may be, that is the message that is getting through to me...... I don't really have an opinion on who is right or wrong, I am literally just voicing what I interpret the "message" to mean...... and irrespective of their motives, brigning a country to its knees in the way that they are is not the act of a patriot - in my humble opinion..... protests outside gouvernement buildings and that sort of thing is fair ga,e, but sure this is a threat to Thailands national security...... notwithstanding the few tourists (including me) who will be inconvenienced..... it is the business critical activites and the status of Bkk as a stable financial hub for SE Asia........

[HYENA]

please,

do somebody have trusted sources of informations or proof that PAD is paying protesters?

That's like asking my uncle in law or any of his villagers for proof he bribed them for his votes. Yes he bribed them, he won and no I don't have any proof. I won't call my wife a liar, either. I have no proof the media hasn't been playing a big joke and Obama really isn't the next president, either.

I don't see why a few people would refer to paying people to protest if it doesn't happen. It happens in my country. One example...protesters were picketing in front of a church about a stance it made...the people had signs, were smoking, etc. acting as if they were members of the church. It was a dead giveaway because no one in the church smokes or drinks (or eats meat, for that matter) and you've got 50 people, most smoking talking to the media as if they were members. I was a guest at the church that day and it was hilarious because everyone except the media knew they were imports. Turned out a wealthy member had paid them. Sure everyone gets paid to do anything in Thailand or anywhere!

In my country, protesters are regularly paid (Washington, DC). They even have companies that coordinate and supply many of the line people while the spokespersons will be the one's to talk to the media. I organized a protest once (we weren't paid for a month, so we were motivated). I don't see enough motivation for people to take large amounts of time off work unless some money was involved. Sure there are diehards and their families...and for media events, likely people who have to work and can't take off the time are compensated. It's not like anyone is paying a gunman...just paid protesters for bulk...that's how it works everywhere.

Edited November 27, 2008 by HYENA

[tors]

I believe that you should have the democratic right to protest a government , I DON'T believe you have the right to involve Transport Hub safety & effect others doing it.

Thousands of protesters sitting in the airport terminal doesn't effect safety. It effects money, every hour they're there it's costing millions of lost sales to the airport, the stores, the resaurants, etc.

PAD supporters have been at my Soi's market all evening offering up to 700 Baht a day for anyone coming to protest at the airport. And they have pick-up trucks waiting to be loaded with people before they drive off. They offered it to my wife and her friend while I was standing besides them. Proof enough? Come see it for yourself if you're still ignorant.

No, it's not and please don't resort to personal attacks calling me ignorant just because I demand proof to your claims. Now, do you have evidence? Like a video, audio, pictures? Rumours from the opposition isn't evidence, it's barely a rumour. I'm willing to listen if you give me something more then unverified facts which can not be verified.

They really do pay people...usually for high profile protests. First looking for free supporters, food, etc. Not sure how much but some people who have gotten the calls have been offered a nice amount compared to a typical day's work. Nothing gets done unless someone's paid or it affects money...everything is money money money in Thailand (everyone knows that)!

700 bath/day to join the PAD bus to BKK

[Mosha]

I'm off to bed, wake me up if summat interesting happens.

[egg6447]

I believe that you should have the democratic right to protest a government , I DON'T believe you have the right to involve Transport Hub safety & effect others doing it.

Thousands of protesters sitting in the airport terminal doesn't effect safety. It effects money, every hour they're there it's costing millions of lost sales to the airport, the stores, the resaurants, etc.

PAD supporters have been at my Soi's market all evening offering up to 700 Baht a day for anyone coming to protest at the airport. And they have pick-up trucks waiting to be loaded with people before they drive off. They offered it to my wife and her friend while I was standing besides them. Proof enough? Come see it for yourself if you're still ignorant.

No, it's not and please don't resort to personal attacks calling me ignorant just because I demand proof to your claims. Now, do you have evidence? Like a video, audio, pictures? Rumours from the opposition isn't evidence, it's barely a rumour. I'm willing to listen if you give me something more then unverified facts which can not be verified.

hey hippo, are you for real or on a wind up..?? now if your for real ,wow, did the nazy thing happen or not.???. now if your on a wind up your doing a great job on me, and believe me i am a expert at it. ive only taken bate once in my life, which leads me to believe you are for real , man you could be dangerous in the wrong cercumstance.

[DP25]

please,

do somebody have trusted sources of informations or proof that PAD is paying protesters?

No. The sole source for ThaiVisa poster's evidence of this is 'my girlfriend heard from the lady at the market that her cousin's brother's sister's nephew was being offered money by the PAD'

[bKkRk]

Hooray for law and order... finally. Perhaps the precipitous fall from 2nd to 4th world can be stopped somewhere near the 3rd. Hopefully no one gets hurt.

[SabaiBKK]

the government was NOT democratically elected therefore PPP will get dissolved if they can't change the laws.

the PPP just got 1/3 of the votes and most of the coalition partner promised before the election that they would never make a coalition with PPP.

Sorry to busy your fantasy land bubble, but the government WAS democratically elected.

And if you come up with the bribes that the PPP supposedly gave to voters, how do you answer to the fact that the PAD is paying every demonstrator at the airport? Isn't that bribing too? Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

I am afraid you are wrong on both counts, the current government was not elected democratically, since a large percentage of their votes were bought, moreover, the current "P.M." was not elected as P.M. by the electorate per se, that vote was given to former PM. Samak.

As to your second point , The PAD protestors are not being bribed to take part in the PAD movement , they are being paid for the lost hours of work in their jobs, those people cannot demonstrate for months without having an income of sorts.

and even if they are paid to protest , it is a non issue , the PAD is not a political party and is not running for office.

Thailand is getting ass raped by Thaksin (who is a convicted criminal with an arrest warrant on his head BTW) since 2001 and by proxy since he fled the scene and didn't have the balls to face the music

The PAD are the only ones to react , even if IMHO they use the wrong means.

[corkman]

I am not trying to incite any kind of arguement > this is a general & simple question:

From what I can gather,

5% of the people in Thialand have 95% of the wealth, thus 95% of the "power".....

The policy of Thaksins crowd generally is not conducive to the preferences of that 5% of people......

However, 95% of the people do support Thaksins crowd > and hence they keep getting electec, by popular vote....

BUT > the 5% of wealthy people are not happy with that result, so they keep on trying to get "new" gouvernment....

........if I am remotely correct, I have porobably over hugely simplified it...... but is that the general idea..... (percentages of weath and electorate are purely guessed, obvisouly).....

If this is so, it sounds very much like an Irish Referendum.......

As someone who knows VERY LITTLE (read as nothing) about Thai politics, it appears from the outside that the so called PAD are just pursuing their own agenda, under a weak fascade of patriotism > and are very much in the minority..... i.e. representing their own agenda, not the "interests" of their country men....... right or wrong as this may be, that is the message that is getting through to me...... I don't really have an opinion on who is right or wrong, I am literally just voicing what I interpret the "message" to mean...... and irrespective of their motives, brigning a country to its knees in the way that they are is not the act of a patriot - in my humble opinion..... protests outside gouvernement buildings and that sort of thing is fair ga,e, but sure this is a threat to Thailands national security...... notwithstanding the few tourists (including me) who will be inconvenienced..... it is the business critical activites and the status of Bkk as a stable financial hub for SE Asia........

The one thing to the credit of the PAD is that their protest has remained peaceful....... but I think they have shot themselves in teh foot with this one..... they can't pick and choose which laws they will and will not obey, not if they are trying to hold some moral high ground..... and if they fail to dispurse when ordered to do so by the police, and ordered to do so by the courts, then they are breaking the law...... if anyone else breaks the law, what happens????? and why should this be any different......

Edited November 27, 2008 by corkman

[rainman]

I don't think you should be the person throwing around accusations like that seeming as you're loyties are very anti-PAD. If you have proof then show it. I don't like nonsensical claims.

PAD supporters have been at my Soi's market all evening offering up to 700 Baht a day for anyone coming to protest at the airport. And they have pick-up trucks waiting to be loaded with people before they drive off. They offered it to my wife and her friend while I was standing besides them. Proof enough? Come see it for yourself if you're still ignorant.

Can you please provide a weblink to your proof.

A weblink? Did you read my post before asking this?

No, I don't have a weblink. Because it's not on the internet, it's happening in my Soi's market, as I already wrote. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. I know what I see and hear and I write it. Believe it or don't, that's up to you.

Edited November 27, 2008 by rainman

[khunstuart]

Just a bit about bying votes etc. I have been in the noth east during elections one group comes down the road and shouts and screams the villagers all come out in there yellow red or whatever shirts take the freebies and go back in, the next one comes and low and behold they all have that colour Tshirt. No one is giving a hoot, half dont bother to vote, if they do they do for who they please not who gave them the most free rice/ baht etc. I think we should forget about the vote bying issue and worry about whats next. there is almost civil war ready to erupt in this country, rich against poor???