State Of Emergency Declared

[hungryhippo]

And what form would this evidence take? Like I say they don't give out receipts. I'd give you witnesses, you'd say they are lying.

I already told you in my very first post about this. Pictures, video, audio anything that can prove it. If you can't prove it why do you continue to spew this dribble.

I want to quote this guy because he's right and it shows why you're wrong.

What I find unbelievable, is that, why has it not been captured on tape. Not even once. Somebody could just secretly film it on their mobile phone. Also, some hornest people could also own up that they are paid, or reports to the police that they are paid or an attempt have been made to pay them.

Unlike vote buying. Takers dare not own up because the broke the law, and could be jail. For taking PAD/UDD money, I am sure, out of the thousands takers, there must be at least half a dozen who would own up to the police, or have caught something on tape during the process.

Please ask your self this question. If it is so wide spread (rounding up people in market, etc), why no one even attemp to make a screte recoding. Even just some voice recoding. It is not so hard. In Thailand, we manage to capture illegal abortion, drug sales, child prositution, and even vote buying. But nothing on PAD/UDD paying supporters.

I am not saying that anyone is lying. I just find it hard to believe that no concrete evidence emerged.

I am neutral. Just show me a video or voice clip.

Exactly, show me the proof I can validate, I have an open mind.

[frodo]

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat announced the decision at a TV address at 9 pm. But military sources were quick to observe why the Army was left out of the scheme, noting that the Air Force and Navy had no expertise, resources and equipment to deal with the situations at the two airports.

That idiot Somchai is some leader. Declares an SOE and sends in troops with no resources, know how, or equipment.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/27/hea...es_30089575.php

"...the Air Force and Navy had no expertise, resources and equipment to deal with the situations at the two airports"

This should work out well.

I would certainly hope so. No blood, deaths, or injuries.

[DP25]

There has recently been a question over whether the navy was with the army and air force. Also if you go back to the 60's and Thai history it is possible to find old links, and not particulalrly good ones between these two.

Back in 1951 the Navy actually went to war with the Army. They kidnapped the Army backed Prime Minister and held him hostage on a warship, and attempted to get their own guy in power. Their bluff failed however, the Army didn't care if he died or not, and the Air Force allied with them and destroyed the ship. The army laid siege to naval bases and hundreds of people died. And the Prime Minister through some miracle survived the sinking of the ship he was being held on and swam to shore.

[SomNamNah]

Maybe its because im out in the North, with family in the surrounding villages... but what i see is a hel_l of a load of Thai folk, struggling to provide enough food for themselves, decent walls on houses, etc... All LOVING the reds. (The fact that Thaksin developed the north here helps an awful lot)

Im friends with the grandson of a rear admiral up here, he supports the yellows, but he also says the PAD have gone just too far. (athough he still wears the 'time out' symbolic whistle round his neck)

On TV i see a load of middle class, big car driving, spoilt bangkok middle class. The top will always be self serving and corrupt.. just look at our western corporate 'donations' to political figures.

This is a class war imo.

Edited November 27, 2008 by SomNamNah

[moo9]

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat announced the decision at a TV address at 9 pm. But military sources were quick to observe why the Army was left out of the scheme, noting that the Air Force and Navy had no expertise, resources and equipment to deal with the situations at the two airports.

That idiot Somchai is some leader. Declares an SOE and sends in troops with no resources, know how, or equipment.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/27/hea...es_30089575.php

Indeed, a very strange move!

[animatic]

The blustering of the gutless b*stards posting above about having "no tolerance", "get what they deserve", etc. etc. is nauseating.

When a political view becomes completely disenfranchised, whatever that view, it takes to the streets. The only one to blame for the resulting chaos is a government of bumbling self-interest in a Texas-style "no negotiation" approach to governance.

The stubborn brand of democracy that goes "once I got the votes, the rest of you are f*cked" isn't democracy at all (Hitler was democratically elected and nobody puts him in the democracy hall of fame). The essence of democracy is protection of the minority view, not the suppression of it.

Any American who demonstrated for racial equality, or against the vietnam war, or in support of Gay marriage, knows that when a "democratic" government starts being the government of the governors, and not of the people, the streets become the ballot box.

So we see it play out here, as it has in a hundred tyrannies in a hundred places before.

Exactly, there is a long tradition of "standing up to 'the man'".

For exactly the reasons noted here.

Tyrony of an elected minority, elected for one set of reasons,

but ignoring all others. This is the set up for SoE's it makes it inevitable.

I saw another posted calling Obama an illegal alien and I bet this character

would be happy to remove him from office.

Ooh sorry most of the voters disenfranchised your attitude.

So maybe now you know how the REST of us felt under 'your leader's' mis-rule.

And how so many felt under Thaksin's mis-rule. 6 in one hand 1/2 dozen in the other.

[BowmoreIslay]

There has recently been a question over whether the navy was with the army and air force. Also if you go back to the 60's and Thai history it is possible to find old links, and not particulalrly good ones between these two.

Back in 1951 the Navy actually went to war with the Army. They kidnapped the Army backed Prime Minister and held him hostage on a warship, and attempted to get their own guy in power. Their bluff failed however, the Army didn't care if he died or not, and the Air Force allied with them and destroyed the ship. The army laid siege to naval bases and hundreds of people died. And the Prime Minister through some miracle survived the sinking of the ship he was being held on and swam to shore.

Can you please at least name the PM, so that I can search/google and read about it. I find this very interesting.

[egg6447]

PM declares state of emergency on airports

The Royal Navy and the First Region Police Bureau will be in charge of the jobs at Suvarnabhurmi Airport, Somchai said.

-- The Nation 2008-11-27

I noticed the message also; the question is: was the Royal Navy ever involved in such an -uproar- operation before ?

LaoPo

maybe not but they are good with the water cannon.

[HYENA]

The PAD is expecting the police to storm the airports, and have moved most of the supporters there. This should be a good opportunity to take back GH instead. That will be a big surprise to them Sondhi.

Now THAT is a great idea! Who cares who got into power however. Even if it wasn't 100% democratic, it was as far as Thai politics goes and says something about democracy and rule of law...at least they could try to start some semblance of rule of law by taking back the offices while the yellowjackets are at the airport...

Great idea (do you have his phone number, you need to call him ASAP, I'm sure these guys or no one really in positions of power would have considered this being the genepool left most of them out) LOL! I can see why they let it go on so long...hoping it would fade away and when they up the ante too much, it would offend the -can't say...but it would offend important people and the general public and wane their support even further...not to mention protest time alone costs money.

Yeah, take back the government offices, then the police and the military I'm sure would agree the airports are unacceptable and they'd get cooperation from the military there.

I wonder how they're goign to fire the generals who refused to act? THat's a can of worms in itself. I'm glad I'm not PM! Not enough opium grown in SE Asia to deal with the headaches!

I think one swift (hate to say it) brutal if needed act to end all this disruption while declaring it has cost businesses X baht (their activities) and blame the low tourism on them while he's at it.

The people if they were on the fence are really sick of all the whining yellow jackets, bombings, etc. The judge that was bombed my wife heard the boom in her soi. I told her what happened and she thought it was a bit low and loud for a car exhaust so she thought it was an electric transformer blowing.

I think the people would support a good old fashioned ass whoopin for the sake of ending all this chaos and proclaim PAD a terrorist group for taking over airports and ignoring democracy (regardless of what happened, they have to start somewhere). There's no way PAD could be put in power, there'd be a civil war for sure. No one wants a government that believes Isaan folks are too stupid to be able to vote.

They need to also arrest whoever is coordinating illegal acts that infringe upon the rights of others (airport, hijacking government offices) and make sure they're never heard from out of that jail. Kid gloves are not civilized, they're tolerating this BS. Civilized countries would not tolerate somone undermining their government and therefore the country and the rule of law. (regarding the personal attacks above-can't you get the message and KNOCK IT OFF? The mod said to knock it off and personal attacks are not tolerated here--got it)?

There certainly are plenty of ways a democratic country can silence and punish protesters when they go way over the line. They've got to stop being patient and restore order ASAP. I'm sure he's worried the Army would step in had he tried earlier, though.

In my country, protests that disrupt the rights of others are big no-no's and they club you and take you to jail if you don't listen to the bullhorn with your orders to disperse immediately or face the consequences. Forget water cannons...they need to quash this rebellion and make a statement against coups (someone has to start somewhere) or anyone will fell they can steal the government if they have the money (CAN YOU SAY TREASON)? Try to overthrow my government and they put you to death just for thinking of it...what's Thailand's problem? Why do they tolerate this trash? They need to monitor and control their military like the US does, as well. Find a high general not willing to support you and follow orders and you're fired. They need to find pro Thailand government workers regardless of who's at the helm. No country is perfect. I've been ashamed of mine but at least the machine works as it should (unfortunately too well for bad leaders, as well)...but that's democracy and democracy isn't perfect, either.

Edited November 27, 2008 by HYENA

[jts-khorat]

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat announced the decision at a TV address at 9 pm. But military sources were quick to observe why the Army was left out of the scheme, noting that the Air Force and Navy had no expertise, resources and equipment to deal with the situations at the two airports.

That idiot Somchai is some leader. Declares an SOE and sends in troops with no resources, know how, or equipment.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/27/hea...es_30089575.php

Indeed, a very strange move!

Not if you know that part of the landing fees at Suvarnabhumi go to the Navy, the same as parts of the proceeds of Don Muang went to the Royal Thai Airforce (one of the reasons there was so much squabble about having one or two airports). The message is clear: you want to have your snout in the trough, gotta work for it a little bit!

And as we have seen with the clashes at the Government House, having right equipment (police shot tear gas but had no gas masks themselves) or experience with crowd dispersal was not a prerequisite.

As the protesters chose to occupy a place like an internatuonal airport, surely every single one of them has thought long and hard about the personal consequences this unlawful act might have for him or his family (if he brought his children along); we all know that planning and foresight is the ultimate strength of the Thai people and BTW, the yellow shirts they wear are bullet-proof...

Edited November 27, 2008 by jts-khorat

[Moonrakers]

What is the point in going back and forth trying to argue that the PAD are paid or not?

I think that it would be naive to think that some don't receive money, and the PAD themselves admit that their guards are employed.

Yet we have poster A stating that they have seen ALL PAD receiving money, and then poster B stating that NO PAD receive money.

Until the very unlikely event that evidence (and hearsay does not count as evidence) proving either way then this argument will have no end.

Anyway, whether or not they are protesting because they are paid is not important. What is important is that they ARE protesting.

[yadetout]

How will the Police manage to unlocate them ? (°_0)

[endure]

A number of off topic and inflammatory posts have been deleted. If you can't be civil be quiet.

[lennois]

What is the point in going back and forth trying to argue that the PAD are paid or not?

I think that it would be naive to think that some don't receive money, and the PAD themselves admit that their guards are employed.

Yet we have poster A stating that they have seen ALL PAD receiving money, and then poster B stating that NO PAD receive money.

Until the very unlikely event that evidence (and hearsay does not count as evidence) proving either way then this argument will have no end.

Anyway, whether or not they are protesting because they are paid is not important. What is important is that they ARE protesting.

Agreed. There is no point.

I make no claim as to how many are paid. I simply know for a fact that SOME are. This is obviously impossible to believe without a video tape of the money exchanging hands however.. I mean TIT right, surely no one is getting paid...

[skooldaze]

You dope. In the U.S. and Europe there are actually people that run for public office to do good. Not in Thailand, ALL, and I repeat ALL politicians are in it for their own financial gain.

People with money run for public office in the US not to get richer, but to do some good. Yes they will have to help out those that donated to their election campaigns, but it's not through plum contracts with the government. It's through legislation that benefits their industries, which is not the same as giving them big jobs outright.

The political system here in Thailand is completely back assward. People don't join a party because of its ideology, they join a party because they have the best chance of getting elected with a certain party. I've followed enough elections here and speak and read Thai well enough to know that none of the parties run on platforms or have any certain ideologies.

A few years ago some actor decided to go into politics and his interview with one of the papers said it all: "I will probably join Thai Rak Thai, because they are the strongest and I will have a better chance to get elected with them."

NOT Oh I really like what they stand for.

PAD acts like terrorist

so they should be put in jail

Thai people have spoken during elections

it is undemocratic to destroy the country because they lost

whoever is in power , will misuse it any way, any colour, any political strain, in any country

like obama & mccain ... spending 1.5 billion dollars for a job supposedly paying 25O.OOO dollar a year ?

yeah right, when president he will have to "thank" his sponsors with big fat overpriced contracts, paid by the people

it's the same overthere and it's te same everywhere

You are right but it's so obvious!

Why to write that?

I did not read TV since months.

Please do not tell me that some TV members are still pro PAD.

Maybe some beheaded chicken?

[animatic]

There has recently been a question over whether the navy was with the army and air force. Also if you go back to the 60's and Thai history it is possible to find old links, and not particulalrly good ones between these two.

Back in 1951 the Navy actually went to war with the Army. They kidnapped the Army backed Prime Minister and held him hostage on a warship, and attempted to get their own guy in power. Their bluff failed however, the Army didn't care if he died or not, and the Air Force allied with them and destroyed the ship. The army laid siege to naval bases and hundreds of people died. And the Prime Minister through some miracle survived the sinking of the ship he was being held on and swam to shore.

Can you please at least name the PM, so that I can search/google and read about it. I find this very interesting.

Not likely to be very accurate being wiki, but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Rebellion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Coup_(Thailand)

would give some good jumping off points for further searches.

Edited November 27, 2008 by animatic

[grahamb]

There has recently been a question over whether the navy was with the army and air force. Also if you go back to the 60's and Thai history it is possible to find old links, and not particulalrly good ones between these two.

Back in 1951 the Navy actually went to war with the Army. They kidnapped the Army backed Prime Minister and held him hostage on a warship, and attempted to get their own guy in power. Their bluff failed however, the Army didn't care if he died or not, and the Air Force allied with them and destroyed the ship. The army laid siege to naval bases and hundreds of people died. And the Prime Minister through some miracle survived the sinking of the ship he was being held on and swam to shore.

Can you please at least name the PM, so that I can search/google and read about it. I find this very interesting.

OT but info is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Rebellion. If it's on Wikipedia it must be true

[moo9]

Seems we are discussing non Thai politics here now

[egg6447]

I am neutral. Just show me a video or voice clip.

Exactly, show me the proof I can validate, I have an open mind.

you may be a inteligent bloke, but, but, on this piont you have a seriouse problem. not niavety. shall we say stupid.

[McFarang]

Why was the PAD allowed to occupy Government House?

Why was the PAD allowed to take over Bangkok's main airport?

Why were the Thaksins allowed to leave Thailand?

Why did the PPP foolishly appoint Thaksin's brother-in-law when it was obvious this would prolong the problems?

Why are the army not working on behalf of the government?

Why does there appear to be a complete and utter lack of responsibility and accountability on the part of every single person in a position of responsibility?

Kids with toys ... every single one of them.

Here Here A case of Simple Simon Says with the help of THB700 a day Why Why Why too busy nest feathering than thinking about the people and the country and that goes for the Hierarchy of both sides accountability what a joke.

a previous comment 95% have no money and 5% have and want more and will let the lemmings from the 95% do the dirty work for a small bonus .

Lets hope that there is a smooth departure of Pad protestors with no violence as I am due into BKK Thursday from West Africa where this sort of thing would have been nipped in the bud at the start taking over Government House and International airports unheard of at your own stupid risk

[BigBuddha]

Amazing how the the Thai government has handled the PAD so patiently and they know when you give the "devil" a rope long enough he will eventually hang himself....and it exposes the extreme stupidity of these PAD leaders....and ofcourse some of the very corrupt rich, some generals, judges etc. who are afraid of their own deep dark secrets to be revealed soon....e.g. drugs dealing, weapons dealing and any illegal lucrative business..are still backing the PAD ......how naive some people can be...to side up with either side....it is all corrupt......the one that is hurting the country the most is ofcourse the PAD idiots and whoever is backing them up.......it definitely exposed them their undemocratic destructiveness of their dumb ass actions....

[travelgirl67]

American politics references removed.

Do not discuss US politics here!

Thanks

G

Thanks

I found his post totally OT (much like mine was though) but I had to respond!

Im fine with you removing mine, I said what I had to say

[Farma]

Can you please at least name the PM, so that I can search/google and read about it. I find this very interesting.

Search for Prime Minister Phibun 29 June 1951 Manhattan Rebellion

[rainman]

What is the point in going back and forth trying to argue that the PAD are paid or not?

I think that it would be naive to think that some don't receive money, and the PAD themselves admit that their guards are employed.

Of course not all PAD protesters were paid, but surely some of them were.

Just like some voters who voted for PPP were paid.

But why the PAD tries to overthrow the PPP when they did the exact same thing is beyond me.

[jts-khorat]

Seems we are discussing non Thai politics here now

It would have helped if you would have opened the link first before posting senselessly.

Manhattan rebellion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Rebellion

On June 29, during a ceremony transferring the American dredge Manhattan to the Thai navy as part of the US military assistance programme, a small group of junior naval officers kidnapped prime minister Phibun at gunpoint and took him to the nearby flagship Si Ayutthaya. Naval guards loyal to the officers also seized fleet headquarters, and a group of naval and marine officers captured the navy radio station.

Although the rebels appear to have taken in no part in any plotting by higher-ranking naval officers, they possibly expected the rest of the navy to rally to their cause. In this, the young officers made their first crucial mistake in the badly arranged operation. Khuang Aphaiwong and the navy leadership, although then plotting to overthrow Phibun,[2] stood still, leaving the rebels to fight the government alone.[3]

Their second fatal error was to assume that the Coup Group would accede to their demands in order to save Phibun's life. Instead of bargaining with the rebels, the military began a fierce counter-attack. The army and police besieged naval bases throughout Bangkok, and the air force and police even bombed and shelled the ship holding Phibun.[4] In the end the Si Ayutthaya was sunk and the field marshal, miraculously unharmed, managed to swim away to safety.

The rebellion was over within thirty-six hours. The Coup Group by then were in control of the capital. Shotting wildly and acting without discipline, government soldiers and police killed twelve hundred - mostly civilians - and injured an additional three thousand.[5]

Edited November 27, 2008 by jts-khorat

[skooldaze]

The taking of the airport also affects many other countries and their airlines. Many Asian airlines flying to Europe stop in Bangkok for the second leg of the flight. Just imagine someone that's flying from Taiwan to Germany on EVA Air, being unable to go because the flight stops in BKK.

I'd also like to note that the PAD is not interested in Democracy. Their state goal is to have a parliament that is partially appointed. That way they can take away the voting power of the rural poor and the people in the North and Northeast...because "we in BKK, the elite know what's best for the country."

Pigs

The ones currently at the airport are the ones that are able to take a few days off at work.

and who are totally insane.

Anybody interested in the theory of anarchy should be researching thailand at this point in time. Proof if needed that anarchy just does not work.

These leaders of the PAD clearly show no respect to the nation of thailand. They are quite happy for its image to go to the dogs, and for their actions to cost the nation billions of dollars. The cost to the country of their incursion into the main airport is vast. They really should be got and tried for high treason.

[sunray69]

I still believe it is possible to remove the protestors without too much violence (use fire trucks and hit them with water and u ll see) from the airports... It seems the Thai Police though might not be trained enough to manage such events and it could easily degenerate if this is the case but it is possible to remove them...

[hammered]

There has recently been a question over whether the navy was with the army and air force. Also if you go back to the 60's and Thai history it is possible to find old links, and not particulalrly good ones between these two.

Back in 1951 the Navy actually went to war with the Army. They kidnapped the Army backed Prime Minister and held him hostage on a warship, and attempted to get their own guy in power. Their bluff failed however, the Army didn't care if he died or not, and the Air Force allied with them and destroyed the ship. The army laid siege to naval bases and hundreds of people died. And the Prime Minister through some miracle survived the sinking of the ship he was being held on and swam to shore.

Iirc and I may not as I lost my book collection on it to a termite attack, the navy was actually under the police in the 60's when Pol. Gen Pin(?) was the strong man and accusedly drug warlord - a good combination navy and police for that - and then there was a coup and the army smashed the police and removed the navy from their control. Quite who took control of the lucrative drug trade then I cannot recall.

[animatic]

Any PAD supporters still holed up at the airport have ZERO sympathy from me if they get hurt or killed. They know what they did, they know what's coming. You can't just seize an international airport and expect to be greeted with flowers and cookies.

If they had seized the JFK or L.A. airport, it would have ended a long time ago, and probably much worse than the Thai police will hopefully end it tonight. As far as I'm concerned, if you run past security at the JFK or L.A. airport, protesting something or not, you get shot in the back before you get anywhere. The Thai government and police have been more than patient, but enough is enough.

rainman, you must be an American. Only there they shot first and then ask question. I am happy that Thailand handles problems more civilised.

I'm not American, not even Canadian or British, but I witnessed a few years ago with my own eyes someone getting shot in the back when he jumped airport security at a US airport. That's why I wrote it. I didn't say it was the right thing, but I said what would have happened there.

Post 9/11 no doubt...

A lot of stupid, paranoid shit started happening after that.

Prior to this there have been airport sit ins.

Most protest and sit ins are slowly and gently carried off and booked.

But this paranoid stuff.... that's how Thailand could start looking soon.

Red ruled streets; with arrogant putz's looking for ANY sign of yellow

resurgence and beating it back down; like last night in Chaing mai.

PAD over reached, but a mass beating of this protest group will open the doors

corporate directed facism as quoted on Mussolini above, PAD will be gone,

but will ANYTHING call out in the night against the powers that be and their malign plans?

[EASYDOGG]

the government was NOT democratically elected therefore PPP will get dissolved if they can't change the laws.

the PPP just got 1/3 of the votes and most of the coalition partner promised before the election that they would never make a coalition with PPP.

Sorry to busy your fantasy land bubble, but the government WAS democratically elected.

And if you come up with the bribes that the PPP supposedly gave to voters, how do you answer to the fact that the PAD is paying every demonstrator at the airport? Isn't that bribing too? Face it, both sides pay for votes and support.

PPP or UDD? Confused.......