Now Wash --- you cut that out !!! Reason has no place in PAD philosophy ____ their God given mandate is to criticize, tear down and destroy. You can hardly expect anything more from a group founded and funded by a grub like Sondhi Limthongkul --- the born again Thaksin supporter and supplicant!!!

In 2007 his PAD helped to instigate the military coup ---- supported the Juntas subsequent constitutional changes ------ supported the stacking of courts and tribunals. Supported the stacking of the Electoral Commission, public service etc etc ....... the list is endless! All to ensure the TRT/PPP could not be reelected.

Finally after much effort from the Military Junta and PAD to ensure this defeat of the TRT/PPP --- Sondhi Limthongkul supported the calling of elections , believing all was set ----- all their fixes were in ---- Imagine their shock when "the chosen ones" did not win. Shock & anger !!

Wash --- despite the common sence behind your call for PAD to "engage in winning the trust of the rest of the country and gain a legitimate place in government" -- I'm sorry --- it cannot happen---- PAD base their appeal on the negative, on tearing down and destroying !!

Not building and contributing.

Sadly PAD is able to intertwine just enough accurate condemnation into their web of lies and deceit to present a cause with some appeal. Equally sadly people are deceived to imagine (due to past government failures) that adopting the PAD path to dictatorship is a step forward . If ever Thailand is controlled by a government that is majority self appointed and cannot be removed by the will of the people at the ballot box then the gate to real conflict and suffering is opened. Dictatorships worldwide offer nothing to the people under their control but oppression !!

When the military removed Thaksin in '07 I believed it was for the best (despite concerns I had about a coup only briefly before scheduled national elections.) I was WRONG --- one bad leader was replaced by a worse group --- and even more dangerously it provided encouragement for PAD ---- and Sondhi Limthongkul ..............

Tig, you might want to fact check your post

1) Coup --- 2006

2) Coup did not end Thaksin's reign as PM

3) Thaksin has been in charge since the last elections

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

I am not gonna dig through all the post ... but really ... to blame this all on one person in the PAD?

look at it , there are a branch of people who either is not working or is in the underground job of selling lottery at higher price . and the leader is mostly bankprupted ..with million in debt .

so if there lose there lose .

their idea is why not bring the country down and sufer like them ..

what a sad group

2) Coup did not end Thaksin's reign as PM

3) Thaksin has been in charge since the last elections

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

Breaking News! We have a farang on PAD's payroll!

"The people may be made to follow a path of action, but they may not be made to understand it"

Confucius

This poll had strongly show you that PAD is not as Supported . and as love by what there had said.

is a mere small minor that support them .

-

is time there wake up their idea and just admit that there are just trouble maker

"The partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertations"

Confucius

Tig, you might want to fact check your post

1) Coup --- 2006 Thanks JD --- you are of course right.

2) Coup did not end Thaksin's reign as PM Now-- now JD --- taking license here.

3) Thaksin has been in charge since the last elections And here. (Tsk Tsk.)

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship OK JD -- I enjoy a joke (70:30) as much as the next --- but cut this out!!

I am not gonna dig through all the post Thanks -- you are giving me a break!!... but really ... to blame this all on one person in the PAD?

No JD--- Sondhi is most certainly not to blame for evgerything PAD does --- he is simply the founder--- and paymaster. He shall do !!!

Edited November 28, 200817 yr by tig28

Something to ponder for the supporters of the PPP formerly know as the TRT:

"The best political community is formed by the citizens of the middle class" - Aristotle

PAD may not be calling for a dictatorship but their original demands for 50% non-elected Parliament was certainly a step in that direction. If the "intelligensia" behind PAD thinks that parts of the country are not responsible enough to have an equal share as themselves in electing a government then what have they said about tackling this issue. Can't have the supply of cheap maids and gardeners interrupted. One legacy of Thaksin, unintentional I am sure, is that the people of Isaan and other poor rural areas are now beginning to be more politically aware. They are certainly more now than when I first visited my wife's village in rural Buriram 25 years ago.

After years of coups and quasi military rule the road to Parliamentary democracy in Thailand was never going to be smooth and certainly not quick. The likes of PAD and Thaksin are unfortunately part of that process. How long that road will be is anybody's guess but I'm sure that they will get there, eventually.

Now Wash --- you cut that out !!! Reason has no place in PAD philosophy ____ their God given mandate is to criticize, tear down and destroy. You can hardly expect anything more from a group founded and funded by a grub like Sondhi Limthongkul --- the born again Thaksin supporter and supplicant!!!

In 2007 his PAD helped to instigate the military coup ---- supported the Juntas subsequent constitutional changes ------ supported the stacking of courts and tribunals. Supported the stacking of the Electoral Commission, public service etc etc ....... the list is endless! All to ensure the TRT/PPP could not be reelected.

Finally after much effort from the Military Junta and PAD to ensure this defeat of the TRT/PPP --- Sondhi Limthongkul supported the calling of elections , believing all was set ----- all their fixes were in ---- Imagine their shock when "the chosen ones" did not win. Shock & anger !!

Wash --- despite the common sence behind your call for PAD to "engage in winning the trust of the rest of the country and gain a legitimate place in government" -- I'm sorry --- it cannot happen---- PAD base their appeal on the negative, on tearing down and destroying !!

Not building and contributing.

Sadly PAD is able to intertwine just enough accurate condemnation into their web of lies and deceit to present a cause with some appeal. Equally sadly people are deceived to imagine (due to past government failures) that adopting the PAD path to dictatorship is a step forward . If ever Thailand is controlled by a government that is majority self appointed and cannot be removed by the will of the people at the ballot box then the gate to real conflict and suffering is opened. Dictatorships worldwide offer nothing to the people under their control but oppression !!

When the military removed Thaksin in '07 I believed it was for the best (despite concerns I had about a coup only briefly before scheduled national elections.) I was WRONG --- one bad leader was replaced by a worse group --- and even more dangerously it provided encouragement for PAD ---- and Sondhi Limthongkul ..............

Tig, you might want to fact check your post

1) Coup --- 2006

2) Coup did not end Thaksin's reign as PM

3) Thaksin has been in charge since the last elections

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

I am not gonna dig through all the post ... but really ... to blame this all on one person in the PAD?

Tig, correct.

jdinasia, full of it!

this hasn't changed my opinion, as I never supported this motley crew of fanatics, led by a convicted criminal. I wonder who's the lone poster who voted "I did not support the PAD movement but now I do [ 1 ]" priceless

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

no, they're calling for anarchy

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

I am not gonna dig through all the post ... but really ... to blame this all on one person in the PAD?

why bother to post at all?

if you can not prove your claim or elaborate yourself just let it be to click the "add reply" button.

discussions forums should be for share your information with other instead just come up with a "no you wrong" minimalism enty. that is boring, helps nobody and is just annoying.

2) Coup did not end Thaksin's reign as PM

3) Thaksin has been in charge since the last elections

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

Breaking News! We have a farang on PAD's payroll!

Not news to me.

I could have sworn this forum was full of PAD faithful. I wonder where they went?

Could it be that it was only a very noisy few who suddenly have the good sense to lay low...

Nail, head, hammer.

Here in Phuket there is a definite change in opinion, from a few weeks ago. From waving yellow flags and wearing yellow bandannas; to a quiet discomfort with the whole situation.

I guess this is to be expected because peoples' livelihoods are already being affected. Hardcore PAD followers are just as unhappy with Thaksin and the government as ever, but really struggling to justify the current actions of the PAD.

I used to like them when I was p***** off with Thaksin's human rights record and the festival atmosphere that they produced at Lumphini Park a few years back. But over the period I got wise to the fact that they were just a mirror image of TRT on that score. However, this current terrorism of theirs has left me actively disliking them. Or as my friend in Samut Sakhon said recently when I phoned her about it : "mai chawp duay".

Strange that about 80% don't support PAD but in another poll about 50% would support a coup.......which is what the PAD are trying to engineer as a ' plan B '

Strange that about 80% don't support PAD but in another poll about 50% would support a coup.......which is what the PAD are trying to engineer as a ' plan B '

To be fair the there was about 400 more who had voted in that poll. But that's not to say that some learn more slowly than others and may have now changed their minds.

Now Wash --- you cut that out !!! Reason has no place in PAD philosophy ____ their God given mandate is to criticize, tear down and destroy. You can hardly expect anything more from a group founded and funded by a grub like Sondhi Limthongkul --- the born again Thaksin supporter and supplicant!!!

In 2007 his PAD helped to instigate the military coup ---- supported the Juntas subsequent constitutional changes ------ supported the stacking of courts and tribunals. Supported the stacking of the Electoral Commission, public service etc etc ....... the list is endless! All to ensure the TRT/PPP could not be reelected.

Finally after much effort from the Military Junta and PAD to ensure this defeat of the TRT/PPP --- Sondhi Limthongkul supported the calling of elections , believing all was set ----- all their fixes were in ---- Imagine their shock when "the chosen ones" did not win. Shock & anger !!

Wash --- despite the common sence behind your call for PAD to "engage in winning the trust of the rest of the country and gain a legitimate place in government" -- I'm sorry --- it cannot happen---- PAD base their appeal on the negative, on tearing down and destroying !!

Not building and contributing.

Sadly PAD is able to intertwine just enough accurate condemnation into their web of lies and deceit to present a cause with some appeal. Equally sadly people are deceived to imagine (due to past government failures) that adopting the PAD path to dictatorship is a step forward . If ever Thailand is controlled by a government that is majority self appointed and cannot be removed by the will of the people at the ballot box then the gate to real conflict and suffering is opened. Dictatorships worldwide offer nothing to the people under their control but oppression !!

When the military removed Thaksin in '07 I believed it was for the best (despite concerns I had about a coup only briefly before scheduled national elections.) I was WRONG --- one bad leader was replaced by a worse group --- and even more dangerously it provided encouragement for PAD ---- and Sondhi Limthongkul ..............

Tig, you might want to fact check your post

1) Coup --- 2006

2) Coup did not end Thaksin's reign as PM

3) Thaksin has been in charge since the last elections

4) PAD is not calling for dictatorship

I am not gonna dig through all the post ... but really ... to blame this all on one person in the PAD?

Tig, correct.

jdinasia, full of it!

Care to explain UG? was something I wrote incorrect in that post? If so please correct it

Strange that about 80% don't support PAD but in another poll about 50% would support a coup.......which is what the PAD are trying to engineer as a ' plan B '

To be fair the there was about 400 more who had voted in that poll. But that's not to say that some learn more slowly than others and may have now changed their minds.

like what "terrorism" is?

Strange that about 80% don't support PAD but in another poll about 50% would support a coup.......which is what the PAD are trying to engineer as a ' plan B '

To be fair the there was about 400 more who had voted in that poll. But that's not to say that some learn more slowly than others and may have now changed their minds.

like what "terrorism" is?

If you like. A whole nation held to ransom by a few is the same thing as a form of terrorism in my book. Or don't you agree ?

PAD may not be calling for a dictatorship but their original demands for 50% non-elected Parliament was certainly a step in that direction. If the "intelligensia" behind PAD thinks that parts of the country are not responsible enough to have an equal share as themselves in electing a government then what have they said about tackling this issue. Can't have the supply of cheap maids and gardeners interrupted. One legacy of Thaksin, unintentional I am sure, is that the people of Isaan and other poor rural areas are now beginning to be more politically aware. They are certainly more now than when I first visited my wife's village in rural Buriram 25 years ago.

After years of coups and quasi military rule the road to Parliamentary democracy in Thailand was never going to be smooth and certainly not quick. The likes of PAD and Thaksin are unfortunately part of that process. How long that road will be is anybody's guess but I'm sure that they will get there, eventually.

"PAD may not be calling for a dictatorship but their original demands for 50% non-elected Parliament......"

tso.... Their original plan was for a split of 70% appointed-----30% elected. The PAD spindoctors soon accepted that this blatant attempt to destroy democracy wouldn't fly--- even within their own supporters ----- but I'm afraid this genie just wont go back in the bottle.

This 70:30 plan was announced with extensive "justification" --- all of which revolved around the bigoted and contemptible view that "some" Thai citizens were too stupid to be trusted to vote the "right way." It may amaze everyone to learn that the citizens identified by PAD as being too stupid to have a say in elections were from the regions that mostly supported TRT/PPP.

With this disgusting & perverted view of the Thai people as their basis---- PAD created their "final solution" -- simply don't allow the electorate to have any control over who is elected---EVER---- make the government self-appointed !!!! GO DEMOCRACY !!

Meanwhile, academics yesterday were sceptical about the PAD's ''New Politics'' during a seminar on the political turmoil at Chulalongkorn University.

Political scientist Prapat Pintoptaeng, of Chulalongkorn University, said the ''70-30 formula'' was threatening democracy, while it remained doubtful if political reforms would materialise when the formula was adopted.

He said the PAD was apparently suggesting a new balance of power with the military being dragged in to tackle corruption, lese majeste and violation of sovereignty.

Mr Prapat also said insurrection charges against the nine PAD leaders were justified as they were operating like a civil rebel group with the aim of changing the administrative system

BANGKOK POST

Yes ......Of course --- now PAD tries to sidestep this sorepoint---- "still considering"---- " open for discussion"--- "maybe not 70:30-----maybe 50:50" --- maybe anything ..... Shhhhhhh ---don't talk abut it!!...... just as long as the electorate cant EVER alter the government again ----- anything will do.

ITS TOO LATE. Most now see PAD for what it really is --- others don't care --- some really do want to destroy Democracy.

Edited November 28, 200817 yr by tig28

PAD are clearly terrorists!

PAD is a protest movement, not an alternative government. PAD is only kept alive as long as the government is inept, immoral, self-serving and subservient to corrupt and criminal forces. If we had a responsible government, one that had not betrayed its trust, one that really wanted to govern in at least a minimally responsible way we would have no PAD.

This coalition government was elected, but the democratic process has failed for the moment in Thailand, as it failed in Germany in the 30s. It was hijacked by ideological fanatics there; it's been hijacked by cynical self-serving interests here. PAD represents people who believe that's no longer acceptable.

That's the fairytale, founder Mr. PAD/Sondhi Limthongkul wants the people to believe....

I wrote earlier in another thread:

"This is NOT a battle between the PAD and the Government for a better Thailand; this is -STILL- an ongoing battle between two formers friends *; two business tycoons fighting each other till they have destroyed each other over the backs of 65 million people in Thailand.

It's a disgusting ongoing war between these two -former- tycoons and close friends and in the end there are only TWO losers to count PLUS 65 million people."

* (for the -stranded- airport passengers who don't know who I'm talking about: Thaksin Shinawatra & Sondhi Limthongkul)

From: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gen-Anupong-...70#entry2357570

The PAD's actions are in fact nothing more or less than a -personal- hatred battle tool by Mr. Sondhi Limthongkul to finally bring down ALL governments, related to his former friend Thaksin who once called Thaksin the country's ‘’best prime minister ever’’.

Personally, he NEVER EVER cared for the Thai population on the country before. He only cared for himself and he was -just- a very wealthy businessman, estimated at USD 600 Million, who went bankrupt and blamed -part of- the whole Bangkok Elite and Banking Establishment for it, except himself.

If only the pro-PAD supporters would study Sondhi a bit in the years prior to the present situation.

But, it's never too late; this article -from a series- was written exactly 3 years ago, in November/December 2005:

"The Truth about Thaksin, Sondhi"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/sondhi/nov29.php

LaoPo

Edited November 29, 200817 yr by LaoPo

Without knowing much about the PAD in its very earliest days, I was absolutely thrilled that the Thais were actually taking a passionate interest in politics. I detested THaksin at the time and welcomed the public denunciation. But very soon, I sensed that something else was going on- a contempt for his constituency- a contempt for the principles of majority rule and an authoritarian streak- like, never mind what the people want- we ARE the people and demand to be obeyed- when in fact they represented only a small portion of the population. When they called for an appointed PM- or a military coup- their true colors, I felt, were on display- that they respected neither the core principles of democracy- nor the right of the majority to select its government.

Edited November 29, 200817 yr by blaze

Blaze said it best - The PAD has become exactly what it opposed. How zen is that?

"This is NOT a battle between the PAD and the Government for a better Thailand; this is -STILL- an ongoing battle between two formers friends *; two business tycoons fighting each other till they have destroyed each other over the backs of 65 million people in Thailand.

It's not quite as simple as that of a battle between Sondhi Limthongku and Thaksin I'm afraid. Remember that Puea Pandin had deeper pockets (hua khanaen) than PPP in the last election because they were backed by the military. I honestly believe that given the militaries involvement, then one very big issue could well be one over succession as well.

But this is a multifarious struggle - not least over perceptions of the political economy and how society is organized. Vis-a-vis, between a mixture of Keynesianism and free market economics (PPP) and the re-establishment an absolutist monarchy.

Edited November 29, 200817 yr by chutai

The more I read here and the more I look at myself, the more I think that many of us are again falling into the trap of becoming the ugly and all knowing farang. None of us know really how deep this goes. None of us know the talks and chess moves being made behind the scenes. None of us know what is truly best for this country.

We are all guests here, we're not being held captive by anyone (in the long term) and if we don't like the craziness and we prefer to live in a place like LA where the national guard would have cleared everyone out in an hour, then we should make moving plans. This is their country to fight over, using whatever tactics they please.

By the way, you can now see police on the roof at what looks like Don Muang:

http://www.astv-tv.com/toc_broadcast.html

The more I read here and the more I look at myself, the more I think that many of us are again falling into the trap of becoming the ugly and all knowing farang. None of us know really how deep this goes. None of us know the talks and chess moves being made behind the scenes. None of us know what is truly best for this country.

That's not quite fair. We Brits, in particularly, have always taken an interest in the wider world beyond our own country, and especially one that we have a genuine interest in.

I think that we can safely say what isn't good for a country in any respect and have diverse opinions about what may be best for any country as a universal principle.

I'm no guest. No one invited me. I've paid my way for eleven years now.

Of course, in a buddhist sense, we are all (Thais and farangs, right-wing elitist PAD members and poor) guests just passing through.