Pro-government Mass Rally To Be Held At Sanam Luang On Sunday

[wedders]

Sorry 'plus', but you couldn't be much farther off the mark. Get yourself up to CM and I'll take you to meet the demonstrators and their leaders, and then you'll be better placed to pass judgment. As it is, your words reveal considerable ignorance.

You MUST explain the very recent killings and beatings that happened in Chiang Mai if you want to insist that it is safe and peaceful.

How long would I last in my generic "We love the King" yellow Monday shirt if I run into those "peaceful" reds there?

That depends entirely on your attitude, your willingness to listen, combined with whether you have the misfortune to first 'run into' any of the tiny minority of violent trouble-makers that you will find on both sides.

I would also point out the the wearing of yellow "We Love The King" shirts is not the exclusive proprietory right of PAD supporters.

As for the recent death (singular) I presume you are referring to the incident when a truck was driven by the victim at speed at a group of protesters near PAD headquarters which resulted in a free-for-all, and the guy in question succumbing to his injuries?

As others have explained here, and it is really not rocket science. Situations like this will always attract a tiny minority of trouble-makers. There is no benefit in comparing senseless violent acts committed by each side in an attempt to demonstrate that one side is somehow 'less bad' than the other. Anyone with a grain of common sense and a minimum of perspective should be able to grasp the mechanics of what is going on here.

There are the puppeteers, and there are the puppets. Seems there are a fair few marionnettes on this forum too.

[Jupiter99]

I noticed one difference in the pictures, one group is occupying a location illegally!

[flanker]

none of those countries like saudi arabia are democratic..Thailand is supposed to be a democracy despite the technical term 'constitutional monarchy' and the PAD calls itself People Alliance for Democracy when in fact they are against democracy and want to run this country like Saudi Arabia..

and in all those countries that 'appoint' .. those are basically totalitarian regimes that are doing the appointing, obviously the people doing the appointing are the real power..who the fk would be appointing here? either the military or the pad itself..these people are obvious facists.

[hammered]

none of those countries like saudi arabia are democratic..Thailand is supposed to be a democracy despite the technical term 'constitutional monarchy' and the PAD calls itself People Alliance for Democracy when in fact they are against democracy and want to run this country like Saudi Arabia..

and in all those countries that 'appoint' .. those are basically totalitarian regimes that are doing the appointing, obviously the people doing the appointing are the real power..who the fk would be appointing here? either the military or the pad itself..these people are obvious facists.

At least half of the countries mentioned are democratic even if they have some crime or politcal problems. Some have far stronger demcoratic institutions than Thailand

[wedders]

How long would I last in my generic "We love the King" yellow Monday shirt if I run into those "peaceful" reds there?

Hopefully a bit longer than the pro-government guy caught at Suvarnabhumi earlier today by this lot...

In the above shot the press photographers are being chased away before they can record his fate ...

[Sunderland]

How long would I last in my generic "We love the King" yellow Monday shirt if I run into those "peaceful" reds there?

Hopefully a bit longer than the pro-government guy caught at Suvarnabhumi earlier today by this lot...

In the above shot the press photographers are being chased away before they can record his fate ...

Are they protesters or one of the many rock groups appearing on stage each day?

[TAWP]

Why would a single pro-government guy go to Suvarnabhumi?

[wedders]

Why would a single pro-government guy go to Suvarnabhumi?

Don't know, but you'd better go ask him quick while he's still in a fit state to answer.

Perhaps he was a Channel 3 reporter

[HYENA]

"My point was that the army especially, and police maybe (it's hard to tell as they are so incompetant), have sided with the law breaking minority, and would, I suggest, stop similar antics from the mass populous - it's political, and it's why the army should never be supported within Thai politics at a coup or any level."

"They are not afraid, but it is deeper than that. Just think about it's the stuff you can't post here or even talk about it. Listen to the words on the street and I hope you get it."

Getting warmer methinks.

You're right about the word on the street. I asked my wife today wat's the word on the street and the word is the yellows have such strong (influential)backing and endless money supporter(s) they are guaranteed to win one way or another...So the prediction is Yellows will win, happy birthday next week and ascension assured with enough of a democracy (barely) to avoid outright embargoes (if I were guessing, I'd agree that's a likely outcome). First there has to be enough chaos so the people are desperate enough to accept it. It's a huge step back in democracy.

The unfortunate part I see by escalating thought: the yellows have whiter skin, are prettier, more educated, smarter, the only ones that should vote, the only one's that should own business, the only one's that should own land, the only one's that deserve to live (hopefully they'll stop earlier, but some of these thoughts exist and exist openly).

Edited December 1, 2008 by HYENA

[HYENA]

none of those countries like saudi arabia are democratic..Thailand is supposed to be a democracy despite the technical term 'constitutional monarchy' and the PAD calls itself People Alliance for Democracy when in fact they are against democracy and want to run this country like Saudi Arabia..

and in all those countries that 'appoint' .. those are basically totalitarian regimes that are doing the appointing, obviously the people doing the appointing are the real power..who the fk would be appointing here? either the military or the pad itself..these people are obvious facists.

At least half of the countries mentioned are democratic even if they have some crime or politcal problems. Some have far stronger demcoratic institutions than Thailand

If you think hard enough, I'll bet you can answer who will do the appointing...come on, think!

[wedders]

"My point was that the army especially, and police maybe (it's hard to tell as they are so incompetant), have sided with the law breaking minority, and would, I suggest, stop similar antics from the mass populous - it's political, and it's why the army should never be supported within Thai politics at a coup or any level."

"They are not afraid, but it is deeper than that. Just think about it's the stuff you can't post here or even talk about it. Listen to the words on the street and I hope you get it."

Getting warmer methinks.

You're right about the word on the street. I asked my wife today why no one can say anything but its happening and people are talking without talking (saying what they can within the limits of their "freedom of speech" laws). I just don't understand why PAD and it's extravagantly wealthy backer(s) should have anything to do with anything government on any level because they're all useless. They should ALL go away; every single one....that's what many are wanting but they also see the writing on the wall. Want the prediction? Yellows will win, happy birthday next week and ascension assured with enough of a democracy (barely) to avoid outright embargoes (if I were guessing, I'd agree that's a likely outcome). First there has to be enough chaos so the people are desperate enough to accept it. It's a huge step back in democracy.

Your prediction... quite possibly - but feelings are running high and the transition is likely to be far from smooth once the majority of the population finds itself once again relegated to a state of relative powerlessness.

[HYENA]

"My point was that the army especially, and police maybe (it's hard to tell as they are so incompetant), have sided with the law breaking minority, and would, I suggest, stop similar antics from the mass populous - it's political, and it's why the army should never be supported within Thai politics at a coup or any level."

"They are not afraid, but it is deeper than that. Just think about it's the stuff you can't post here or even talk about it. Listen to the words on the street and I hope you get it."

Getting warmer methinks.

You're right about the word on the street. I asked my wife today why no one can say anything but its happening and people are talking without talking (saying what they can within the limits of their "freedom of speech" laws). I just don't understand why PAD and it's extravagantly wealthy backer(s) should have anything to do with anything government on any level because they're all useless. They should ALL go away; every single one....that's what many are wanting but they also see the writing on the wall. Want the prediction? Yellows will win, happy birthday next week and ascension assured with enough of a democracy (barely) to avoid outright embargoes (if I were guessing, I'd agree that's a likely outcome). First there has to be enough chaos so the people are desperate enough to accept it. It's a huge step back in democracy.

Your prediction... quite possibly - but feelings are running high and the transition is likely to be far from smooth once the majority of the population finds itself once again relegated to a state of relative powerlessness.

I'm definitely not a fan but the only solution I see because corruption is so deep seated there is to restart monarchy, completely restructure and try to work out corruption from top to bottom, change laws and do it similar to GB, US or similar country's so the constitution can't be changed in a whiff and restructure military and everything so you've got country loyalty regardless of who's in charge.

Problem with monarchy transitions is people are used to liking one person and when that person changes, they don't want to serve or do anything...when democracies are set up to obey regardless of who's at the helm, it works because you've got close to 50% of your power is individually elected, often the opposition and therefore your people would be used to being loyal to the government regardless of the individual at the helm. The corruption is the biggest problem and if one leader with 100% power who's already loaded beyond belief retakes all the power, there would be no need to steal money from Thailand, no need to pay off buddies...and one person may be able to swing it because you don't have a following whose primary motive is to get a payoff if your guy wins. I'd say other than the monarchy, it's all about individual wealth and nothing about Thailand.

I really, really, really hate to say it but they need to restart monarchy absolute power (otherwise why have one)?

Edited December 1, 2008 by HYENA

[annamaria4711]

And the hated son wins hands down !!!!

Think about it...

BTW....the rice is nearly collected, more people will come to BKK to be heard and counted against this totalitarian fascist movement

[wedders]

Why would a single pro-government guy go to Suvarnabhumi?

Photos of the incident from the Matichon Online site (in Thai)

[h90]

Why would a single pro-government guy go to Suvarnabhumi?

Photos of the incident from the Matichon Online site (in Thai)

The red mob would have killed him like in chiang mai

[TAWP]

Why is he running with a yellow shirt? Stole it? Or the pictures is infact not telling the whole story? (Heck, could be an internal fight too, men will always find reasons to fight...especially after drinking some.)

[Danton]

"My point was that the army especially, and police maybe (it's hard to tell as they are so incompetant), have sided with the law breaking minority, and would, I suggest, stop similar antics from the mass populous - it's political, and it's why the army should never be supported within Thai politics at a coup or any level."

"They are not afraid, but it is deeper than that. Just think about it's the stuff you can't post here or even talk about it. Listen to the words on the street and I hope you get it."

Getting warmer methinks.

You're right about the word on the street. I asked my wife today why no one can say anything but its happening and people are talking without talking (saying what they can within the limits of their "freedom of speech" laws). I just don't understand why PAD and it's extravagantly wealthy backer(s) should have anything to do with anything government on any level because they're all useless. They should ALL go away; every single one....that's what many are wanting but they also see the writing on the wall. Want the prediction? Yellows will win, happy birthday next week and ascension assured with enough of a democracy (barely) to avoid outright embargoes (if I were guessing, I'd agree that's a likely outcome). First there has to be enough chaos so the people are desperate enough to accept it. It's a huge step back in democracy.

Your prediction... quite possibly - but feelings are running high and the transition is likely to be far from smooth once the majority of the population finds itself once again relegated to a state of relative powerlessness.

I'm definitely not a fan but the only solution I see because corruption is so deep seated there is to restart monarchy, completely restructure and try to work out corruption from top to bottom, change laws and do it similar to GB, US or similar country's so the constitution can't be changed in a whiff and restructure military and everything so you've got country loyalty regardless of who's in charge.

Problem with monarchy transitions is people are used to liking one person and when that person changes, they don't want to serve or do anything...when democracies are set up to obey regardless of who's at the helm, it works because you've got close to 50% of your power is individually elected, often the opposition and therefore your people would be used to being loyal to the government regardless of the individual at the helm. The corruption is the biggest problem and if one leader with 100% power who's already loaded beyond belief retakes all the power, there would be no need to steal money from Thailand, no need to pay off buddies...and one person may be able to swing it because you don't have a following whose primary motive is to get a payoff if your guy wins. I'd say other than the monarchy, it's all about individual wealth and nothing about Thailand.

I really, really, really hate to say it but they need to restart monarchy absolute power (otherwise why have one)?

Can you name one single country in the world where such a scenario ever took place , let alone succesfully ?

[tig28]

I guess they're supposed to vote for the PAD elite snobs who think everyone in the country is inferior to them, and are insisting on a system in which 30% of seats are elected and 'intelligent people'-which is them and their dictator leader-rule the entire country..

Wrong. Go do some reading.

Although, frankly, I don't have a problem with the system they *used to* propose. I wish we had it in the West.

However, they abandoned that some time ago because they (unlike the PPP) do actually listen to their supporters, rather than using them like cattle.

The problem with vote buying is the people willing to pay more always win... That is not a democracy, and it needs to be stamped out. Ask anyone who cares to discuss it 'up north' and they will very openly and clearly state they vote for whomever pays more... and that is *always* PPP.

As I have said before it's much easier to buy 1 million votes at a few hundred baht each, than buying 1 million votes in Bangkok. And that a democracy it does not make.

Hi SCRATT.... You are quoting a very tired party line here about the effect of "vote buying" on the outcome of the '07 election which may be very wrong. The problem was wide spread throughout several parties.... but if you care to look at the readily available evidence .... it becomes (strangely --- I know) evident that "vote buying" had little (perhaps no) effect on the outcome of the election.

WHAT ??? I hear you say .... well until I had a detailed look at the REAL RESULTS ----- I thought as you.

It started for me with the much publicized case of the "red & yellow cards " handed out by the EC over "vote buying" in a Chiang Rai electorate. I looked at the outcome of the by-election and I was surprised.

Obviously there was vote buying here --- the celebrated case of Yongyuth Tiyapairat had received much deserved media attention--- it could, after all, cause the dissolution of the PPP. In the Chiang Rai election of his sister La-ong Tiyapairat--- he was convicted of corrupt practice --- paying 10 officials.

RESULT: Yongyuth Tiyapairat (at various times -- deputy of PPP---house speaker and "assassin of refrigerators")

was"red carded' --- resulting in a 5 year political ban

---- and leading directly to the current threat hanging over the PPP.

His sister La-ong was "yellow carded" --- the election invalidated and a by election was called.

This was the possibly most closely scrutinized election in Thailand ----- certainly little chance of vote buying here!!

RESULT (97%) of BY ELECTION:

People Power party (PPP) Ms La-ong ----- 69,561 votes

Democrat candidate Kittipong Namwong -- 19,314 votes.

Well it was certain that here at least the "vote buying" had no effect on the outcome ..... but it got me thinking.... so I looked up the results in other cases identified by the EC... resulting in a by-election here they are (briefly):

Three candidates of the People Power party (PPP) won all the seats in Nakhon Ratchasima's constituency 3 in the election re-run yesterday.

Source: www.korat-info.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=252&t=1816&p=7770

The by-election was called after three winning PPP candidates _ Prasert Chantraruangthong, Linda Cherdchai and Boonlert Krutkhuntod _ were yellow-carded after they were caught with cash and a list of eligible voters.

Source: www.korat-info.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=252&t=1816&p=7770

the meantime, the Chaiyaphum Provincial EC and the Chaiyaphum Province Police also reports results of the province's by-election for constituency 2 that Surawit Konsomboon and Prasit Chaiwirattana, the MP candidates of the People Power Party, who were earlier yellow-carded by the EC have won the majority votes for yesterday's by-election.

Source: www.thailandoutlook.tv/TOC/PrintNews.aspx?DataID=1004381

I found 3 others ---all with similar results. It appears that in each case the results were unaltered in the by-election .... this limited sample suggests to me that it is likely that corruption did not have much (or any) effect on the overall outcome of the election.

NOTE: Of all the real problems that afflict Thailand I believe that the virtually universal acceptance of corruption ---large and small--

is the root-cause of much lasting damage --- if somehow it could be eliminated ..........

Edited December 1, 2008 by Maestro
Added links to sources - Maestro

[dave9988]

No matter what side you are on I think we can agree things are heating up and becoming very dangerous. The events that have taken place this weak are shocking however it is human nature to become desensitized to shock and I fear as things get progressively worse it will seem like business as usual. I really hope law and order is restored. I don't care who has to do it and who runs the country.

That is how terrorism and extortion works. They cause discomfort in hopes that you will cut off your testicles and beg them to stop.

[Moonrakers]

Why is he running with a yellow shirt? Stole it? Or the pictures is infact not telling the whole story? (Heck, could be an internal fight too, men will always find reasons to fight...especially after drinking some.)

Maybe it was a dare.

[Vindie]

Why is he running with a yellow shirt? Stole it? Or the pictures is infact not telling the whole story? (Heck, could be an internal fight too, men will always find reasons to fight...especially after drinking some.)

Maybe it was a dare.

Regarding the killing in Chiang Mai. I don't know all the details of the actual killing of the individual, but he was the owner of a house that was being used as a PAD rallying point near the airport. They had spent the day hiding behind a concrete wall, throwing small explosives and firing small arms. Eventually the man exited the compound and attempted to ram some of the red shirts, at which point he was killed. The red shirts had gathered there because of reported beatings of red shirts by the PAD members earlier in the day.

I am not posting this to defend the actions of the red shirts, but I think it's unfair that no accounts have reflected what had been going on there before the incident. There is a lot going on that people aren't aware of. The Thai and International news people are doing a lousy job for one reason or another. Some things I'd like to know : Is it true that PAD members are payrolled at 500 baht a day to camp at the airport? Where is all the money coming from, and who can benefit?

As far as who is defending democracy. I'm no Thaksin lover, but I'm going to have to choose the side that is supporting the elected government, rather than the angry mob that managed to put Thailand at 7 on the most dangerous countries to visit list. But hey... it's better here than Sudan or Iraq!

[erobando]

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

And PAD and their advocates haven't? I am gagging to hear the reasoning behind your assertion. What is the "current political reality" here?

The "current political reality" is that their supporters are too fired up and blinded by their leaders to realize that they're just pawns, and both the PAD and the PPP should be kicked out. Stop wearing yellow. Stop wearing red. Once people are stripped of their team colors, they'll start being reasonable again.

Oi! I asked erobando, not you.

(Nice theory on your color coding tho')

Sorry, NanLaew. I just logged on now.

By current political reality, I mean that there is an established ruling network here in Thailand, in which all parties involved are connected. Political deals are traditionally brokered by Gen Prem, who is respected by the major players (politicians, the military, the wealthy Bangkokians).

Thaksin tried to tear down that network and establish his own. He tried to do too much of this too soon. Thaksin was also too cavalier in pushing through legislature that seemingly benefited his own financial interests.

If the TRT/PPP really wanted to establish itself as a political party with an actual platform and specific policy goals, they wouldn't have been so confrontational and would have worked within the system to accomplish their policies.

Thaksin/TRT/PPP misjudged the political reality... they misjudged their ability to overturn the established power base.

I'm not claiming the established power base is necessarily better or worse, but it does exist.

Add to this TRT/PPP's actions increasingly appeared to be more about Thaksin than an ideoligical platform.

They play the rural v urban card, but they completely forget about Southern Thailand, which is certainly rural, too.

The most urban center in the South is what? Hat Yai? No more urban than Chieng Mai or Udon.

TRT/PPP could have played it's political cards better.

Instead they were too confrontational, and didn't gain enough support to change the existing power structure.

[wedders]

Why is he running with a yellow shirt? Stole it? Or the pictures is infact not telling the whole story? (Heck, could be an internal fight too, men will always find reasons to fight...especially after drinking some.)

Maybe it was a dare.

Regarding the killing in Chiang Mai. I don't know all the details of the actual killing of the individual, but he was the owner of a house that was being used as a PAD rallying point near the airport. They had spent the day hiding behind a concrete wall, throwing small explosives and firing small arms. Eventually the man exited the compound and attempted to ram some of the red shirts, at which point he was killed. The red shirts had gathered there because of reported beatings of red shirts by the PAD members earlier in the day.

I am not posting this to defend the actions of the red shirts, but I think it's unfair that no accounts have reflected what had been going on there before the incident. There is a lot going on that people aren't aware of. The Thai and International news people are doing a lousy job for one reason or another. Some things I'd like to know : Is it true that PAD members are payrolled at 500 baht a day to camp at the airport? Where is all the money coming from, and who can benefit?

As far as who is defending democracy. I'm no Thaksin lover, but I'm going to have to choose the side that is supporting the elected government, rather than the angry mob that managed to put Thailand at 7 on the most dangerous countries to visit list. But hey... it's better here than Sudan or Iraq!

Well to be fair I thought my account reflected that Chiang Mai incident pretty accurately, even if I didn't go into details about the fighting going on before. It's true they were firing rockets on and off during the day. I'd posted this photo before, but if you didn't see it, these are the actual PAD shields used that day.

The photo was taken next to the PAD headquarters on the estate early the next morning... I didn't hang around for long as you can imagine...

I'm no fan of Thaksin either, but I'm backing the side that stands for at least a semblance of democracy.

Plus I have to agree with this sentiment...

[annamaria4711]

That's the scary part.....

Who is bank rolling the PAD because even businesses are losing now, OR has this mob taken a life of its own, become a 'Hydra'

Personally I think its an internal job...a royal courtier that's been playing the game slowly and dupliciously.

I too am alarmed at the lack of coverage from the Western Media.

[barryjohnson]

Businesses in the south are preparing to boycott paying tax next year. That's gonna hurt.

[Vindie]

Why is he running with a yellow shirt? Stole it? Or the pictures is infact not telling the whole story? (Heck, could be an internal fight too, men will always find reasons to fight...especially after drinking some.)

Maybe it was a dare.

Regarding the killing in Chiang Mai. I don't know all the details of the actual killing of the individual, but he was the owner of a house that was being used as a PAD rallying point near the airport. They had spent the day hiding behind a concrete wall, throwing small explosives and firing small arms. Eventually the man exited the compound and attempted to ram some of the red shirts, at which point he was killed. The red shirts had gathered there because of reported beatings of red shirts by the PAD members earlier in the day.

I am not posting this to defend the actions of the red shirts, but I think it's unfair that no accounts have reflected what had been going on there before the incident. There is a lot going on that people aren't aware of. The Thai and International news people are doing a lousy job for one reason or another. Some things I'd like to know : Is it true that PAD members are payrolled at 500 baht a day to camp at the airport? Where is all the money coming from, and who can benefit?

As far as who is defending democracy. I'm no Thaksin lover, but I'm going to have to choose the side that is supporting the elected government, rather than the angry mob that managed to put Thailand at 7 on the most dangerous countries to visit list. But hey... it's better here than Sudan or Iraq!

Well to be fair I thought my account reflected that Chiang Mai incident pretty accurately, even if I didn't go into details about the fighting going on before. It's true they were firing rockets on and off during the day. I'd posted this photo before, but if you didn't see it, these are the actual PAD shields used that day.

The photo was taken next to the PAD headquarters on the estate early the next morning... I didn't hang around for long as you can imagine...

I'm no fan of Thaksin either, but I'm backing the side that stands for at least a semblance of democracy.

Plus I have to agree with this sentiment...

Ah, I didn't see your photos, I came to the thread late. But I have seen a lot of people post who seem to think the red shirts are an unthinking killer mob... which I don't believe is accurate. I don't think killing the PAD man was justified, but it's a little easier to understand why it could happen if you take into consideration that the red shirts had been shot at all day. I've also spoken with a lot of red shirts. Quite a few of them are not Thaksin supporters at all. They are concerned about the state of democracy in Thailand and feel that the red shirt movement is the best means for them to protest the PAD protests.

Two things continue to shock me:

Why the police don't simply cut off the roads to the airport (no food, no protest... this is Thailand!).

The public outcry has been relatively minimal, and I imagine there must be some very powerful people getting pretty upset about now.

Let's just hope it all doesn't start again after the 5th.

[TAWP]

Reds killing a man that broadcasts radio = understandable.

Yellow guards shooting at taxi drivers and others close to the taxi center, as they was throwing metal pipes on cars and trucks on Viphavadi road = not understandable

Yellow guards having shields, helmets, pipes or even guns after being fired upon night after night with 40mm grenades = not understandable

Ok, I see now how you are thinking. And you are of course not defending the red.

[wedders]

A fascinating study in human psychology, the TV form.

The more radical here seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. It would be interesting to know if the likes of Tawp's straw man misrepresentation of some very reasonable and balanced comments is deliberate, or whether he is genuinely unaware that his interpretation of Vindie's post bears no relation to its content?

[TAWP]

You surely are a comedian.

He clearly writes:

"I don't think killing the PAD man was justified, but it's a little easier to understand why it could happen if you take into consideration that the red shirts had been shot at all day."

To use Red-defenders words: "They wouldn't have been [allegedly] shot at if they wouldn't have been around the house, trying to make problems."

Welcome to the flip-side.

[wedders]

You surely are a comedian.

He clearly writes:

"I don't think killing the PAD man was justified, but it's a little easier to understand why it could happen if you take into consideration that the red shirts had been shot at all day."

To use Red-defenders words: "They wouldn't have been [allegedly] shot at if they wouldn't have been around the house, trying to make problems."

Welcome to the flip-side.

Allow me to translate his words for you, not taking a single phrase out of context, so that you can better understand. I will use you own comment to make it clearer.

Reds killing a man that broadcasts radio = understandable.

Replace by:

"Knowledge of the events leading up to pro-government supporters killing a man that broadcasts radio and drove at demonstrators at speed allow us to put the killing into perspective, but do not excuse it".

Yellow guards shooting at taxi drivers and others close to the taxi center, as they was throwing metal pipes on cars and trucks on Viphavadi road = not understandable

Replace by:

"Knowledge of the events leading up to PAD supporters shooting at taxi drivers and others close to the taxi centre, allow us to put such actions into perspective, but do not excuse them".

Yellow guards having shields, helmets, pipes or even guns after being fired upon night after night with 40mm grenades = not understandable

Replace by:

"We can understand why after months of mounting tension fringe elements on either side are using increasingly violent methods of intimidation, but this of course does not excuse such violence".

Does that help to make things a little clearer?

Edited December 3, 2008 by wedders