The Regent Residences, Bangkok

[susah_sih]

Before buying a unit in this condo project, I would like to know what other people think about this new condo project:

http://www.grandeasset.com/regent/index.htm

The Regent Residence is a very good condo project, for the following reasons:

1. Part of hotel development. The name “The Regent” will add much higher premium to the residence, when compared to Madison, Fullerton, Hampton or any other condo you can name. Grande Asset has signed contract with the Regent Hotel for 20 years to manage its hotel and condo and another 10 year of option for Grande Asset to extend the contract.

2. Good maintenance will be enforced on the condo building, since Grande Asset will make the condo and their hotel, both look good, to be able to attract business.

3. High-rise luxury condo instead of low-rise luxury condo. If one wants to buy low-rise luxury condo, s/he might as well buy a house. By staying in a high rise condo, one could hope to enjoy QUIET living environment (away from tuk-tuk and motorcyle’s noise) and better AIR QUALITY (pollution is a lot less at high floor condos). Some people also live in high-rise condo to have the VIEW of a city. High floor condos are also associated with higher PRESTIGE. In Hong Kong, for example, people would congratulate someone who is moving to higher floor apartments but would pity him/her if s/he moves to lower floor apartments. People are upgrading themselves from smaller to bigger apartment, from lower to higher floor apartment, from C-class Mercedes to S-class Mercedes, etc. That is the exact reason why penthouses are located on the top floors instead of ground floors. So those developers who built low-rise luxury condominium clearly are conflicting in their own reasoning, why LUXURY but yet LOW-RISE. These developers probably have never lived inside apartment and only imagining apartment/condo living from their comfortable big mansion houses.

4. The Regent’s location is only 1-minute of walk from BTS Nana and 5-minute of walk from MTR Sukhumvit. People in cities like Jakarta are abandoning their suburb homes to buy condos close to the city’s center. With higher gasoline prices and long commuting time, people are starting to realize that by living in suburbs, they are spending so much money on gasoline and aging so much inside their cars. Even in New York and Tokyo where commuter trains are well developed, people are moving closer to Manhattan (away from Brooklyn, Queens, which drives up Manhattan condo’s prices http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_39.htm ) and Tokyo’s city center to enjoy more of the night life and spend less on commuting time as in the recent trend as reported in http://www.mid-tokyo.com Hence, those Bangkok suburb home will be a difficult sell in years to come, as people start to realize the value of living close to the city center.

5. Grande Asset is developing the condo directly under the same company, which is already listed and can easily raise money if needed. Grande Asset has secured long term loans for the development of their properties as can be see in note #18 on their financial statement http://capital.sec.or.th/webapp/corp_fin2/...mb_comp_id=0718

Grande Asset already has Grande Westin Sukhumvit under its portfolio, and the Narula family which is the second biggest shareholder has Grande Sheraton Sukhumvit. Other developers on the other hand built separate company for each of their condo development so that it will protect them, in the event of the project’s non-completion, from lawsuits of those buyers who have put in their money with the developer.

6. Chuwit Park across the street from the Regent. The availability of public parks within the Regent is a big advantage. Besides Chuwit Park, the new Queen Sirikit Park, which was the former site of Tobacco Monopoly, is within distance.

7. No Balcony is a BIG ADVANTAGE. Bangkok, being a dusty, hot and polluted city, prevents people from enjoying moment of stays in balconies. Balconies, therefore, prevent full view of a condo (one needs to go outside to the balcony to have a better view). Furthermore, more often than not, balconies are misused to dry clothes, put leftover furniture and plantation that would make overall building look ugly. It took strict enforcement of laws for cities like Singapore and Melbourne to prevent people from hanging clothes on the balcony. Hong Kong has yet to achieve this and you will see ugly apartment complexes in Hong Kong with clothes hanging all over balconies. Worse, balconies are used for people to end their lives. Remember Leslie Cheung who rented penthouse suite with balcony at the Mandarin Oriental Hong Kong only to kill himself. Once there is a homicide in an apartment, no one will want to buy/rent the unit. Most Hong Kong apartment developers nowadays opt to build apartment with completely glass-enclosed balconies that are protruding outward from apartment to enhance the view and to prevent people from jumping from balconies. Moreover, balcony cleaning is up to individual owners, as window cleaners do not clean balcony.

When compared to the Athenee Residence, The Regent Residences have several advantages:

1. The name “The Regent” is more opulent than “Athenee.” The Regent Hotel Hong Kong and the Regent Hotel Beverly Hills are two such examples, whereas Plaza Athenee hotels are hardly known.

2. The Regent’s price (6th Floor: Bt85,000 – 37th Floor: Bt100,500) is more reasonable than the Athenee’s (8th Floor:Bt100,000 – 38th Floor: Bt120,000)

3. Small units are available on high floor for Regent, whereas Athenee have only large units on high floor making high floor units very expensive(costs more than Bt25,000,000.)

4. In terms of architecture, the Regent is much more elegant than Athenee residence. The Regent is designed by WATG, www.watg.com , one of the foremost architect firms for hospitality industry.

5. No balconies in the Regent, making the overall building appearance more tidy and more or less what the architect has pictured it. The presence of balconies in Athenee will tempt tenants to put plants, cloth hanger, unwanted piece of furniture that would make overall look on the building unsightly.

[Digger]

Before buying a unit in this condo project, I would like to know what other people think about this new condo project:

http://www.grandeasset.com/regent/index.htm

The Regent Residence is a very good condo project, for the following reasons:

1. Part of hotel development. The name “The Regent” will add much higher premium to the residence, when compared to Madison, Fullerton, Hampton or any other condo you can name. Grande Asset has signed contract with the Regent Hotel for 20 years to manage its hotel and condo and another 10 year of option for Grande Asset to extend the contract.

2. Good maintenance will be enforced on the condo building, since Grande Asset will make the condo and their hotel, both look good, to be able to attract business.

3. High-rise luxury condo instead of low-rise luxury condo. If one wants to buy low-rise luxury condo, s/he might as well buy a house. By staying in a high rise condo, one could hope to enjoy QUIET living environment (away from tuk-tuk and motorcyle’s noise) and better AIR QUALITY (pollution is a lot less at high floor condos). Some people also live in high-rise condo to have the VIEW of a city. High floor condos are also associated with higher PRESTIGE. In Hong Kong, for example, people would congratulate someone who is moving to higher floor apartments but would pity him/her if s/he moves to lower floor apartments. People are upgrading themselves from smaller to bigger apartment, from lower to higher floor apartment, from C-class Mercedes to S-class Mercedes, etc. That is the exact reason why penthouses are located on the top floors instead of ground floors. So those developers who built low-rise luxury condominium clearly are conflicting in their own reasoning, why LUXURY but yet LOW-RISE. These developers probably have never lived inside apartment and only imagining apartment/condo living from their comfortable big mansion houses.

4. The Regent’s location is only 1-minute of walk from BTS Nana and 5-minute of walk from MTR Sukhumvit.  People in cities like Jakarta are abandoning their suburb homes to buy condos close to the city’s center. With higher gasoline prices and long commuting time, people are starting to realize that by living in suburbs, they are spending so much money on gasoline and aging so much inside their cars. Even in New York and Tokyo where commuter trains are well developed, people are moving closer to Manhattan (away from Brooklyn, Queens, which drives up Manhattan condo’s prices http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_39.htm ) and Tokyo’s city center to enjoy more of the night life and spend less on commuting time as in the recent trend as reported in http://www.mid-tokyo.com  Hence, those Bangkok suburb home will be a difficult sell in years to come, as people start to realize the value of living close to the city center.

5. Grande Asset is developing the condo directly under the same company, which is already listed and can easily raise money if needed. Grande Asset has secured long term loans for the development of their properties as can be see in note #18 on their financial statement http://capital.sec.or.th/webapp/corp_fin2/...mb_comp_id=0718

Grande Asset already has Grande Westin Sukhumvit under its portfolio, and the Narula family which is the second biggest shareholder has Grande Sheraton Sukhumvit. Other developers on the other hand built separate company for each of their condo development so that it will protect them, in the event of the project’s non-completion, from lawsuits of those buyers who have put in their money with the developer.

6. Chuwit Park across the street from the Regent. The availability of public parks within the Regent is a big advantage. Besides Chuwit Park, the new Queen Sirikit Park, which was the former site of Tobacco Monopoly, is within distance.

7. No Balcony is a BIG ADVANTAGE. Bangkok, being a dusty, hot and polluted city, prevents people from enjoying moment of stays in balconies. Balconies, therefore, prevent full view of a condo (one needs to go outside to the balcony to have a better view). Furthermore, more often than not, balconies are misused to dry clothes, put leftover furniture and plantation that would make overall building look ugly. It took strict enforcement of laws for cities like Singapore and Melbourne to prevent people from hanging clothes on the balcony. Hong Kong has yet to achieve this and you will see ugly apartment complexes in Hong Kong with clothes hanging all over balconies. Worse, balconies are used for people to end their lives. Remember Leslie Cheung who rented penthouse suite with balcony at the Mandarin Oriental Hong Kong only to kill himself. Once there is a homicide in an apartment, no one will want to buy/rent the unit. Most Hong Kong apartment developers nowadays opt to build apartment with completely glass-enclosed balconies that are protruding outward from apartment to enhance the view and to prevent people from jumping from balconies. Moreover, balcony cleaning is up to individual owners, as window cleaners do not clean balcony.

 

When compared to the Athenee Residence, The Regent Residences have several advantages:

1. The name “The Regent” is more opulent than “Athenee.” The Regent Hotel Hong Kong and the Regent Hotel Beverly Hills are two such examples, whereas Plaza Athenee hotels are hardly known.

2. The Regent’s price (6th Floor: Bt85,000 – 37th Floor: Bt100,500) is more reasonable  than the Athenee’s (8th Floor:Bt100,000 – 38th Floor: Bt120,000)

3. Small units are available on high floor for Regent, whereas Athenee have only large units on high floor making high floor units very expensive(costs more than Bt25,000,000.)

4. In terms of architecture, the Regent is much more elegant than Athenee residence. The Regent is designed by WATG, www.watg.com , one of the foremost architect firms for hospitality industry.

5. No balconies in the Regent, making the overall building appearance more tidy and more or less what the architect has pictured it. The presence of balconies in Athenee will tempt tenants to put plants, cloth hanger, unwanted piece of furniture that would make overall look on the building unsightly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally I think they are overpriced and unlikely to get finished if there is a recession next year in Thailand. Also, there is no Regent hotel in Hong Kong anymore, its now owned by Intercon hotels.

On the positive side, the location is always going to be in demand.

[george]

Overpriced.

[charles]

Overpriced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a bad sales pitch, but 85K per sq.m. for the 6th floor (where you won't have a great view) is still very expensive. 50K would be more like it.

I love the sales pitch on the lack of balconies. There are some good points but surely it's a bit much to be designing luxury condos with a view to preventing people from topping themselves. I am also wondering whether residents at Athenee Residence will be hanging out clothes on a 200 baht Tesco-Lotus clothes hanger on their 120K per sq.m. balconies.

Suprised me how much of the spiel was dedicated to the balconies but access and the traffic situation there didn't get a single mention. I wonder why? Do people well-heeled enough to buy a 100k/sq.m. condo wish to go absolutely everywhere by skytrain or walking?

[susah_sih]

Overpriced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a bad sales pitch, but 85K per sq.m. for the 6th floor (where you won't have a great view) is still very expensive. 50K would be more like it.

I love the sales pitch on the lack of balconies. There are some good points but surely it's a bit much to be designing luxury condos with a view to preventing people from topping themselves. I am also wondering whether residents at Athenee Residence will be hanging out clothes on a 200 baht Tesco-Lotus clothes hanger on their 120K per sq.m. balconies.

Suprised me how much of the spiel was dedicated to the balconies but access and the traffic situation there didn't get a single mention. I wonder why? Do people well-heeled enough to buy a 100k/sq.m. condo wish to go absolutely everywhere by skytrain or walking?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Access by car is relatively good compared to other condo sites. I drove at around 5 pm one Friday, and it is not bad, since I used shortcut and avoided driving on Sukhumvit road. There are two entrances: 1. on Sukhumvit and Soi 13 Sukhumvit (via Petchburi and Nana)

From apartment:

1. Endure a short traffic jam from Soi 13 to Asoke, either turn left to Petchburi

direction or right to Queen Sirikit Convention, both traffic are relatively free flow

to freeway entrance.

2. Avoid Soi-13-to-Asoke journey, and go via Soi 13 to Petchburi instead.

To apartment:

1. Avoid travelling from Asoke to Sukhumvit due to very bad traffic jam, instead

use Petchburi and turn to Nana and travel into Soi 11 or Soi 13 Sukhumvit

directly into the Condo complex.

[pnustedt]

[Access by car is relatively good compared to other condo sites.

And good secure car parking?

I currently live in HK and really miss not having a balcony - one of the main advantages of having a penthouse apartment is that you can normally also have a roof garden.

In parts of HK they hang clothes out of their windows (they don't have balconies) - perhaps the developer should have thought of no windows!

[charles]

Access by car is relatively good compared to other condo sites. I drove  at around 5 pm one Friday, and it is not bad, since I used shortcut and avoided driving on Sukhumvit road. There are two entrances: 1. on Sukhumvit and Soi 13 Sukhumvit (via Petchburi and Nana)

From apartment:

1. Endure a short traffic jam from Soi 13 to Asoke, either turn left to Petchburi

   direction or right to Queen Sirikit Convention, both traffic are relatively free flow

   to freeway entrance.

2. Avoid Soi-13-to-Asoke journey, and go via Soi 13 to Petchburi instead.

To apartment:

1. Avoid travelling from Asoke to Sukhumvit due to very bad traffic jam, instead

    use Petchburi and turn to Nana and travel into Soi 11 or Soi 13 Sukhumvit

    directly into the Condo complex.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From apartment

1. No way is Asoke (going in Petchaburi direction) relatively traffic fee. And where is the "freeway" entrance?

2. Forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong, but you couldn't get to Petchaburi from the apartment via Nana (soi 3) as that is a one-way street. So you'd be left with Asoke or driving up to near Chidlom in the opposite direction.

Also, as a general point, at many parts of the day, many sections of Petchaburi Road have serious traffic jams.

Maybe, possibly, this place does have better access compared to "other condo sites" but I assume by this you mean other condo sites on Sukhumvit. They are pretty much all going to be a nightmare traffic-wise and if people really do buy and move into all these places it is only going to get much worse...

Finally, are you really thinking of buying the place or trying to sell it?

Edited December 15, 2004 by charles

[susah_sih]

I am thinking of buying it. I just need a second opinion.

Some sales agents are trying to sell me Raimon's condos:

1. On Asoke/Soi 16 Sukhumvit

They insist that it is a short distance to BTS. It is more like 20-minute walk,

passing through a big & busy Asoke road. The Lake is

selling around Bt85,000 for its lowest floor.

I saw this condo at night. It uses reflective glass for its windows. You can only

enjoy the night view, if you TURN OFF all of the lights inside your condo.

2. On Saladaeng

The remaining units are on Floor 2 at Bt86,500. I can see immediately I would

endure the smell and loud noise of the tuk-tuk/motorcycle every morning

carrying people to work from Silom road to offices on Sathorn.

Please let me know where I can buy Bt50,000/sqm a new high-rise luxury condo in a 5-star hotel complex, I would like to buy it.

I am staying in apartment with balcony now. Believe me it's more hardwork to try to clean the balcony (due to dust in Bangkok) than getting the benefit from it.

[OldAsiaHand]

The going rate for top-of-the-market condos in the very top buildings in the same area which are currently occupied is around B60,000 per square meter. New buildings will, if anything, be of an inferior construction standard given the rush by amateur developers (which certainly includes the constantly and continually bankrupt Raimon Land) to cut costs.

Thais simply refused to buy what they insist on calling 'used property' under any circumstances, which is why the condo maket here is headed straight for an early collapse circa 1997. For the life of me, I can't see why a foreigner would be sucked into buying a possibly inferior unit at a 25% premium just because it's 'new.'

If you're actually looking for a place to live and you don't thoroughly vet the property now on the market instead of focusing just on the developers hustling incomplete projects to naive Thais who think they're going to make a killing on them, you're making a serious mistake.

[susah_sih]

Thanks for the information.

The reason why I like the Regent Residences is that they have good

fire safety measures. I talked to the architect (WATG) www.watg.com

Many older buildings like the one that I am staying in Langsuan

does not even have water sprinkler. Most big fires happened

in buildings without sprinkler. And older developments allow

gas cooker/burner, which is a fire hazard.

Not only that the Regent Residences are currently being offered

with a discount of 5% for limited number of units.

The going rate for top-of-the-market condos in the very top buildings in the same area which are currently occupied is around B60,000 per square meter. New buildings will, if anything, be of an inferior construction standard given the rush by amateur developers (which certainly includes the constantly and continually bankrupt Raimon Land) to cut costs.

Thais simply refused to buy what they insist on calling 'used property' under any circumstances, which is why the condo maket here is headed straight for an early collapse circa 1997. For the life of me, I can't see why a foreigner would be sucked into buying a possibly inferior unit at a 25% premium just because it's 'new.'

If you're actually looking for a place to live and you don't thoroughly vet the property now on the market instead of focusing just on the developers hustling incomplete projects to naive Thais who think they're going to make a killing on them, you're making a serious mistake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

I sincerely recommend that you don't buy anything 'off-plan' being developed by Grande Asset. They are a dodgy bunch and financing for the project must be questionable.

After their recent share flotation, their Chairman dumped his shares immediately on to the market which basically screwed all of his new minority shareholders - as the share price fell by 70%. (Luckily I didn't own any).

I'd be highly sceptical that they will deliver what that nice pavilion in Sukumvit is promising !!

If you want to write to me privately to verify what i've said, feel free.

Sauron

[Sumitr Man]

I thought Regent Condos were built on Crown Property Bureau Land?

It would certainly be the reason why I would think twice about buying anything in that part of Bangkok (not that there is anything wrong with Crown Land, beyond the lease term period).

SM

[susah_sih]

Thank you for the warning. Indeed, there are many dodgy property developers.

There are those listed developers with major shareholders FRONTING every land purchase for their condo development. Grande Asset is not doing this as far as I know for their Regent Residence and Trendy Condominium (next door to Regent Residence). Grande Asset bought the land from Ambassador Hotel which is under debt restructuring and being screwed by Bangkok Bank.

The financing of Regent Residence is under a committed facilty by Krung Thai Bank which aslo offers financing up to 120% of the condo price for individual buyers. 20% for decoration of the condo. The term is up to 30 year. While the financing for Trendy Condo is undertaken by Bangkok Bank. Trendy is 70% finished.

I happened to be a stockbroker and I am just checking logically about what you said:

1. Grande Asset belongs to two major shareholders: Pongphan SAMPAWAKOOP (the Chairman of Grande Asset) and the NARULA family. NARULA got into Grande Asset in 2002 by buying the shares of Hong Kong's FURAMA HOTEL in the company. Both of the families hold the remaining shares not offered to the public, which is probably around 70% of the enlarged shares. I am sure the NARULA family will be pissed if Pongphan dumped his shares RIGHT AFTER IPO.

Not only that, Pongphan is also killing himself by doing so, afterall how much can he dumped in the market? After all he has perhaps 40% or so of the enlarge shares; he would ruin the price of his remaining unsold shares by dumping say 3% or so, right after IPO.

2. It does not make sense to dump the shares RIGHT AFTER IPO.

Afterall why didnt he sell the shares AT THE IPO? He could do this.

3. Sharelockup and monitoring by SEC

Major owners' shares not sold to the public will be subject to sharelockup anywhere from 6 months and longer. SEC has been quite strict on many occasion. recent example includes: N-PARK which is under various scruttiny by SEC with insider trading charges. Afterall SEC in Thailand can do this, they can see the fund movement in the banking sector and I heard they also tap telephone conversation.

Grande asset IPO in February 2004 was at the right time. SET was at its peak. And I believe with many IPO cases in Thailand, many fund managers and retail investors just want to have a "Free Lunch," they all subscribe to the IPO which are usually offered at 20% discount to other property shares, and most of the shares subscribed in the IPO were dumped BY these PUBLIC INVESTORS in the first day of trading.

I sincerely recommend that you don't buy anything 'off-plan' being developed by Grande Asset. They are a dodgy bunch and financing for the project must be questionable.

After their recent share flotation, their Chairman dumped his shares immediately on to the market which basically screwed all of his new minority shareholders - as the share price fell by 70%. (Luckily I didn't own any).

I'd be highly sceptical that they will deliver what that nice pavilion in Sukumvit is promising !!

If you want to write to me privately to verify what i've said, feel free.

Sauron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Digger]

I am thinking of buying it. I just need a second opinion.

Some sales agents are trying to sell me Raimon's condos:

1. On Asoke/Soi 16 Sukhumvit

    They insist that it is a short distance to BTS. It is more like 20-minute walk,

    passing through a big & busy Asoke road. The Lake is

    selling around Bt85,000 for its lowest floor.

    I saw this condo at night. It uses reflective glass for its windows. You can only

    enjoy the night view, if you TURN OFF all of the lights inside your condo.

2. On Saladaeng

    The remaining units are on Floor 2 at Bt86,500. I can see immediately I would

    endure the  smell and loud noise of the tuk-tuk/motorcycle every morning

    carrying people to work from Silom road to offices on Sathorn.

Please let me know where I can buy Bt50,000/sqm a new high-rise luxury condo in a 5-star hotel complex, I would like to buy it.

I am staying in apartment with balcony now. Believe me it's more hardwork to try to clean the balcony (due to dust in Bangkok) than getting the benefit from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I would go for the Regent condo's next to the Four Seasons Hotel (the old Regent) - because of the 25 yr leases due to Crown Land, the prices are always lower than other projects but they seem pretty well put together. Big plus in my mind is that they are actually built. The cynic in me says be very very wary of an unbuilt development, whoever the developer is. If your buying to live in it, the 25 yr lease should not pose too much of a problem. Even better if your planning on renting it out as the returns are much better than other projects in the mid term. But personally I would not buy a condo in BKK as I think they are way overpriced compared to rental costs. a 3% return on investment + all the hassle does not get me excited about the BKK condo market.

I would agree with you though about access for the new Regent location. That side of Sukhumvit is way better than the even numbers side but poor relative to other areas. Have you looked at the condo's on the river on Rama III? Easy vehicle access but no BTS.

[corkscrew]

Access by car is relatively good compared to other condo sites. I drove  at around 5 pm one Friday, and it is not bad, since I used shortcut and avoided driving on Sukhumvit road. There are two entrances: 1. on Sukhumvit and Soi 13 Sukhumvit (via Petchburi and Nana)

From apartment:

1. Endure a short traffic jam from Soi 13 to Asoke, either turn left to Petchburi

   direction or right to Queen Sirikit Convention, both traffic are relatively free flow

   to freeway entrance.

2. Avoid Soi-13-to-Asoke journey, and go via Soi 13 to Petchburi instead.

To apartment:

1. Avoid travelling from Asoke to Sukhumvit due to very bad traffic jam, instead

    use Petchburi and turn to Nana and travel into Soi 11 or Soi 13 Sukhumvit

    directly into the Condo complex.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From apartment

1. No way is Asoke (going in Petchaburi direction) relatively traffic fee. And where is the "freeway" entrance?

2. Forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong, but you couldn't get to Petchaburi from the apartment via Nana (soi 3) as that is a one-way street. So you'd be left with Asoke or driving up to near Chidlom in the opposite direction.

Also, as a general point, at many parts of the day, many sections of Petchaburi Road have serious traffic jams.

Maybe, possibly, this place does have better access compared to "other condo sites" but I assume by this you mean other condo sites on Sukhumvit. They are pretty much all going to be a nightmare traffic-wise and if people really do buy and move into all these places it is only going to get much worse...

Finally, are you really thinking of buying the place or trying to sell it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I prefer Athenee...it is right adjacent to Ploenchit station. Road access directly on to Ruam Rudi AND Wireless. And the Regent name is becoming more down-market....the old Regent properties are becoming Four Seasons.

[think_too_mut]

I am thinking of buying it. I just need a second opinion.

Some sales agents are trying to sell me Raimon's condos:

1. On Asoke/Soi 16 Sukhumvit

    They insist that it is a short distance to BTS. It is more like 20-minute walk,

    passing through a big & busy Asoke road. The Lake is

    selling around Bt85,000 for its lowest floor.

    I saw this condo at night. It uses reflective glass for its windows. You can only

    enjoy the night view, if you TURN OFF all of the lights inside your condo.

2. On Saladaeng

    The remaining units are on Floor 2 at Bt86,500. I can see immediately I would

    endure the  smell and loud noise of the tuk-tuk/motorcycle every morning

    carrying people to work from Silom road to offices on Sathorn.

Please let me know where I can buy Bt50,000/sqm a new high-rise luxury condo in a 5-star hotel complex, I would like to buy it.

I am staying in apartment with balcony now. Believe me it's more hardwork to try to clean the balcony (due to dust in Bangkok) than getting the benefit from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One thing I don't understand is - why would you buy in the core nightlife areas like Nana or Patpong? Do you expect them to close down in the near future or you don't mind or even prefer that?

For that money I would look on the river. Simply, I will never have the feeling of conducting a normal life while all my outings start/end at the Nana BTS.

Less money : Thong Lor - On Nut stretch. There is something luxurios being built at the corner Sukhumvit and Soi 42, less than 100m from Ekkamai bus terminal. Can't remember the name but it's like 10-12 floors high and right on the BTS.

[haha]

my 2 cents...

1) in general, rent, don't buy. if you have so much money that you can afford to lose your investment in a condo here, go for it. it doesn't really matter, then, does it?

2) the real estate market here in thailand is based on the expectations of foreigners and not the earning power of local thai people. most thai people in this country cannot afford the prices of condos advertised to foreigners. how can I say this? simple, most thais make less than 10k baht a month, or about 250 usa dollars.

3) there has been a boom in construction recently. ...especially with commercial property. many of the big hi-rises are almost complete. if the developers aren't able to fill up all the rental spaces, what do you think will happen to the real estate market here?

4) thai people in general don't want foreigners to own anything in their country. most thai people who I have discussed property issues with have told me this. of course, you can do your own survey if you don't believe me. so, what has this got to do if you want to own a condo here? ..everything. basically, if you encounter any problems with the condo, the chances are, no thai person will help you resolve it. ...yes, do your own survey. talk to other foreigners. get educated.

5) before 1992, every 4 years, the political power in thailand changed by way of a coup. the last one didn't occur because the king intervened. the thai people love the king so much that they listen to him. ..but someday, the king won't be here anymore. so, what do you think will happen then? this is not to say anything bad will happen. but if another coup occurs, do you think those people will honor your claim to your condo?

6) during the 70's, malaysia went thru this very scenario. the real estate market skyrocketed bigtime because of foreign investors. so much so that the local people were locked out of the market for their own land. imagine that.... the malaysians came to hate the foreigners (mainly singaporeans) for the way the property market was. they resented the fact that they couldn't buy homes in their own country.

..anyway, guess what malaysia did? they made it a law that foreigners could not own property. and as a result, foreigners lost all the gains that they made. many foreigners lost everything. ..the funny thing to this whole tale is that malaysia is now opening up to foreign investors again. and many are flocking in to spend their money buying condos again.

..just shows you how long people remember the past.

7) last, but not least. in the last year, twice, foreigners have lost their businesses to some "unknown" person(s). what happened was that the premises of the foreigners businesses were demolished. these foreigners had licenses from the government supposely making their business legitimate. ..did any thai person come to their aid? not that I know of.

..in fact, one of the perpetrators got away with doing this injustice. in fact, this same person is now running for political office.

in summary, it's your money. you can do anything you want with it. just remember, this is not america.

thailand is a great place to live your life. but be careful. and don't EVER forget, we are just guests here.

[corkscrew]

Before buying a unit in this condo project, I would like to know what other people think about this new condo project:

http://www.grandeasset.com/regent/index.htm

The Regent Residence is a very good condo project, for the following reasons:

1. Part of hotel development. The name “The Regent” will add much higher premium to the residence, when compared to Madison, Fullerton, Hampton or any other condo you can name. Grande Asset has signed contract with the Regent Hotel for 20 years to manage its hotel and condo and another 10 year of option for Grande Asset to extend the contract.

2. Good maintenance will be enforced on the condo building, since Grande Asset will make the condo and their hotel, both look good, to be able to attract business.

3. High-rise luxury condo instead of low-rise luxury condo. If one wants to buy low-rise luxury condo, s/he might as well buy a house. By staying in a high rise condo, one could hope to enjoy QUIET living environment (away from tuk-tuk and motorcyle’s noise) and better AIR QUALITY (pollution is a lot less at high floor condos). Some people also live in high-rise condo to have the VIEW of a city. High floor condos are also associated with higher PRESTIGE. In Hong Kong, for example, people would congratulate someone who is moving to higher floor apartments but would pity him/her if s/he moves to lower floor apartments. People are upgrading themselves from smaller to bigger apartment, from lower to higher floor apartment, from C-class Mercedes to S-class Mercedes, etc. That is the exact reason why penthouses are located on the top floors instead of ground floors. So those developers who built low-rise luxury condominium clearly are conflicting in their own reasoning, why LUXURY but yet LOW-RISE. These developers probably have never lived inside apartment and only imagining apartment/condo living from their comfortable big mansion houses.

4. The Regent’s location is only 1-minute of walk from BTS Nana and 5-minute of walk from MTR Sukhumvit.  People in cities like Jakarta are abandoning their suburb homes to buy condos close to the city’s center. With higher gasoline prices and long commuting time, people are starting to realize that by living in suburbs, they are spending so much money on gasoline and aging so much inside their cars. Even in New York and Tokyo where commuter trains are well developed, people are moving closer to Manhattan (away from Brooklyn, Queens, which drives up Manhattan condo’s prices http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_39.htm ) and Tokyo’s city center to enjoy more of the night life and spend less on commuting time as in the recent trend as reported in http://www.mid-tokyo.com  Hence, those Bangkok suburb home will be a difficult sell in years to come, as people start to realize the value of living close to the city center.

5. Grande Asset is developing the condo directly under the same company, which is already listed and can easily raise money if needed. Grande Asset has secured long term loans for the development of their properties as can be see in note #18 on their financial statement http://capital.sec.or.th/webapp/corp_fin2/...mb_comp_id=0718

Grande Asset already has Grande Westin Sukhumvit under its portfolio, and the Narula family which is the second biggest shareholder has Grande Sheraton Sukhumvit. Other developers on the other hand built separate company for each of their condo development so that it will protect them, in the event of the project’s non-completion, from lawsuits of those buyers who have put in their money with the developer.

6. Chuwit Park across the street from the Regent. The availability of public parks within the Regent is a big advantage. Besides Chuwit Park, the new Queen Sirikit Park, which was the former site of Tobacco Monopoly, is within distance.

7. No Balcony is a BIG ADVANTAGE. Bangkok, being a dusty, hot and polluted city, prevents people from enjoying moment of stays in balconies. Balconies, therefore, prevent full view of a condo (one needs to go outside to the balcony to have a better view). Furthermore, more often than not, balconies are misused to dry clothes, put leftover furniture and plantation that would make overall building look ugly. It took strict enforcement of laws for cities like Singapore and Melbourne to prevent people from hanging clothes on the balcony. Hong Kong has yet to achieve this and you will see ugly apartment complexes in Hong Kong with clothes hanging all over balconies. Worse, balconies are used for people to end their lives. Remember Leslie Cheung who rented penthouse suite with balcony at the Mandarin Oriental Hong Kong only to kill himself. Once there is a homicide in an apartment, no one will want to buy/rent the unit. Most Hong Kong apartment developers nowadays opt to build apartment with completely glass-enclosed balconies that are protruding outward from apartment to enhance the view and to prevent people from jumping from balconies. Moreover, balcony cleaning is up to individual owners, as window cleaners do not clean balcony.

 

When compared to the Athenee Residence, The Regent Residences have several advantages:

1. The name “The Regent” is more opulent than “Athenee.” The Regent Hotel Hong Kong and the Regent Hotel Beverly Hills are two such examples, whereas Plaza Athenee hotels are hardly known.

2. The Regent’s price (6th Floor: Bt85,000 – 37th Floor: Bt100,500) is more reasonable  than the Athenee’s (8th Floor:Bt100,000 – 38th Floor: Bt120,000)

3. Small units are available on high floor for Regent, whereas Athenee have only large units on high floor making high floor units very expensive(costs more than Bt25,000,000.)

4. In terms of architecture, the Regent is much more elegant than Athenee residence. The Regent is designed by WATG, www.watg.com , one of the foremost architect firms for hospitality industry.

5. No balconies in the Regent, making the overall building appearance more tidy and more or less what the architect has pictured it. The presence of balconies in Athenee will tempt tenants to put plants, cloth hanger, unwanted piece of furniture that would make overall look on the building unsightly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The advantage of The Athenee is location...location...location....and the quality of the money behind the project.

[trajan]

I also prefer the Athenee Residence over the Regent Residence.

I was studying this too, and over all location won out as the main reason.

The area around the Regent is just plain unappealing to me. I visited at various times in the day and night, and the type of people and business located at the Regent area are VERY different from the Wireless Road and Ruam Rudee area (even though its very close ---one stop on the SkyTrain).

Generally, for buying a condo in Bangkok, I would MUCH prefer the Central Business District bordered by Lumpini Park/Rama IV Road (South), Royal Bangkok Sports Club/Rajadamri Road (West), Klong/Canal Saen Saep (North) and Port Din Daeng Expressway (East). I confirmed this opinion with several international real estate brokers--- who should know.

Secondarily, the Athenee Residence seems to be much more professionally run. The mock ups, the sales people's knowledge, the international fixtures which will be installed, the floor plans, the internet cameras, the fingerprint scans for elevators, the semi private elevator lobbies (six elevators per floor, but not located all together---so only two units per floor share a bank of two elevators ), the WONDERFUL large pool, lap pool, garden and lounging area etc. on 8th floor extended potium area, the views from the high zone (floor 21-38) not sure about low zone.

I like the fact that the Athenee units are on average larger so there are less people and a more exclusive atmosphere. I dont like the fact that the top floors (33-37) of the Regent are smaller units (not penthouses). I like the fact that access to the Athenee is from both Wireless Road and Ruam Rudee and that it is a very short walk to Ploenchit and Ploenchit Skytrain station.

For price, yes its more expensive, but I believe this is the trend for top quality projects in the CBD and a few other places. These are becoming much more rare too as opposed to other areas. As I understand, The Park Chitlom (Soi Chitlom), The Infinity (corner of Sathorn and the new Road--old Russian Embassy), Le Raffine 31 (Sukhumvit Soi 31) , Baan Ratchadamri (Ratchadamri Road) and now Athenee Residence (Soi Ruam Rudee) have achieved an average price of over B100,000 per sq.m. But other finished top projects are achieving that price on the secondary market (like All Seasons Mansion (Wireless), and a few buildings on Lang Suan, etc. If you are looking at a slightly longer term investment (instead of buying and immediately selling) or just renting out for the highest return possible, I personally think this is good value at Athenee.

Lastly, the brand name Regent is now with Carlson of Minnesota? USA, not Four Seasons. If the KL Regent (although I like it alot for GREAT value) is representative of the new Regent ambiance, then its really not the same as Four Seasons). The Athenee hotels AFAIK only have locations in Bangkok and New York, but they are first class.

[nogutsnoapplepie]

http://www.grandeasset.com/trendy/index.htm

Baht57,500.00 per sq/meter.

[IndoRealty]

I also prefer the Athenee Residence over the Regent Residence. 

I was studying this too, and over all location won out as the main reason.

The area around the Regent is just plain unappealing to me.  I visited at various times in the day and night, and the type of people and business located at the Regent area are VERY different from the Wireless Road and Ruam Rudee area (even though its very close ---one stop on the SkyTrain). 

Generally, for buying a condo in Bangkok, I would MUCH prefer the Central Business District bordered by Lumpini Park/Rama IV Road (South), Royal Bangkok Sports Club/Rajadamri Road (West), Klong/Canal Saen Saep (North) and Port Din Daeng Expressway (East).  I confirmed this opinion with several international real estate brokers--- who should know.

Secondarily, the Athenee Residence seems to be much more professionally run.  The mock ups, the sales people's knowledge, the international fixtures which will be installed, the floor plans, the internet cameras, the fingerprint scans for elevators, the semi private elevator lobbies (six elevators per floor, but not located all together---so only two units per floor share a bank of two elevators  ), the WONDERFUL large pool, lap pool, garden and lounging area etc. on 8th floor extended potium area, the views from the high zone (floor 21-38) not sure about low zone.

I like the fact that the Athenee units are on average larger so there are less people and a more exclusive atmosphere.  I dont like the fact that the top floors (33-37) of the Regent are smaller units (not penthouses).  I like the fact that access to the Athenee is from both Wireless Road and Ruam Rudee and that it is a very short walk to Ploenchit and Ploenchit Skytrain station. 

For price, yes its more expensive, but I believe this is the trend for top quality projects in the CBD and a few other places.  These are becoming much more rare too as opposed to other areas.  As I understand, The Park Chitlom (Soi Chitlom), The Infinity (corner of Sathorn and the new Road--old Russian Embassy), Le Raffine 31 (Sukhumvit Soi 31) , Baan Ratchadamri (Ratchadamri Road) and now Athenee Residence (Soi Ruam Rudee) have achieved an average price of over B100,000 per sq.m.  But other finished top projects are achieving that price on the secondary market (like All Seasons Mansion (Wireless), and a few buildings on Lang Suan, etc.  If you are looking at a slightly longer term investment (instead of buying and immediately selling) or just renting out for the highest return possible, I personally think this is good value at Athenee.

Lastly, the brand name Regent is now with Carlson of Minnesota? USA, not Four Seasons.  If the KL Regent (although I like it alot for GREAT value) is representative of the new Regent ambiance, then its really not the same as Four Seasons).  The Athenee hotels AFAIK only have locations in Bangkok and New York, but they are first class.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah, but i dont like to become SUCKERS who WILL subsidize 80 or so of Khun Charoen's friends (and his daughter) who got huge discounts prior to the launch of the Athenee on Dec 1st. The discount from CBRE will be menial when compared to those received from Khun Charoen as a priviledge friend. I heard it is close to 20% or so.

[trajan]

yeah, but i dont like to become SUCKERS who WILL subsidize 80 or so of Khun Charoen's friends (and his daughter) who got huge discounts prior to the launch of the Athenee on Dec 1st. The discount from CBRE will be menial when compared to those received from Khun Charoen as a priviledge friend. I heard it is close to 20% or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

News flash IndoRealty, EVERY development in Bangkok has the same situation so if you take that attitude you would never buy.... If you are connected with the real estate business here, I would be surprised you dont know that....In case you haven't realized it yet, this is an Asian society more based on relationships than rules...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

yeah, but i dont like to become SUCKERS who WILL subsidize 80 or so of Khun Charoen's friends (and his daughter) who got huge discounts prior to the launch of the Athenee on Dec 1st. The discount from CBRE will be menial when compared to those received from Khun Charoen as a priviledge friend. I heard it is close to 20% or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

News flash IndoRealty, EVERY development in Bangkok has the same situation so if you take that attitude you would never buy.... If you are connected with the real estate business here, I would be surprised you dont know that....In case you haven't realized it yet, this is an Asian society more based on relationships than rules...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The INDO name comes from Indonesia. The property market is worse in Indo than here.

[wamberal]

The biggest single concern I would have in buying into a condo development, big or small, cheap or expensive, is what happens to maintenance, management, security etc a few years down the track. I agree that security of ownership is a potential problem, but I would be prepared to believe that Thailand would be loathe to damage its sovereign reputation by putting at jeopardy legal property rights.

But, having owned and lived in condo-style property in Australia, and having lived in one for some years in Hong Kong I am very aware of just how much one has to rely on the on-going financial contributions, and active involvement, of all the owners......whether they live in the development, or as landlords.

With all due respect, I think that many, if not most, condominium properties will have problems with under-funding, and lack of interest by owners, down the track.

I agree......rent, don't buy....move on when your building starts to have problems which aren't fixed. This will happen in Thailand...it happens to some extent even in Australia, where the applicable laws and the transparency of the legal system, are far more supportive of owners' rights and responsibilities than in Thailand.

[susah_sih]

As I mentioned before, having balconies is a big disadvantage.

American residents jumps to his death from a Jomtien condo

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=24023&hl=condo

[susah_sih]

  I agree......rent, don't buy....move on when your building starts to have problems which aren't fixed.  This will happen in Thailand...it happens to some extent even in Australia, where the applicable laws and the transparency of the legal system, are far more supportive of owners' rights and responsibilities than in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Rental fee for most of Grade A 2-bedroom Condominium (price about Bt6-8 million) is probably around Bt60,000- Bt80,000/month

For this case, buying is probably a better choice.

Unless you are talking rental for cheap studio apartment 32sqm or so which is probably for a mere Bt5,000/month, but then again, this isnt an equal comparison to buying Grade A 2-bedroom Condominium.

[trajan]

The biggest single concern I would have in buying into a condo development, big or small, cheap or expensive, is what happens to maintenance, management, security etc a few years down the track.  I agree that security  of ownership is a potential problem, but I would be prepared to believe that Thailand would be loathe to damage its sovereign reputation by putting at jeopardy legal property rights.

  But, having owned and lived in condo-style property in Australia, and having lived in one for some years in Hong Kong I am very aware of just how much one has to rely on the on-going financial contributions, and active involvement, of all the owners......whether they live in the development, or as landlords.

  With all due respect, I think that many, if not most, condominium properties will have problems with under-funding, and lack of interest by owners, down the track.

  I agree......rent, don't buy....move on when your building starts to have problems which aren't fixed.  This will happen in Thailand...it happens to some extent even in Australia, where the applicable laws and the transparency of the legal system, are far more supportive of owners' rights and responsibilities than in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ive been living in the LOS for very close to 10 years now. In the past few years I have bought two medium-sized condos in quality older buildings (8-10 years old) in the LangSuan and Silom areas. The maintenance is excellent at both buildings (with fees about US$150 per month) and I have been given offers to sell the condos at prices higher than my purchase price. I am not interested to sell. So far, I am reluctant to rent them out because I enjoy living in them and dont want sloppy strangers in them (I will be very selective if I ever rent them out). My only regret is that I didnt buy the condos sooner instead of wasting VERY signifcant amounts on renting condos (and serviced apartments for about 8 years).

I am now considering buying another condo in a high quality project under construction in the very central part of the CBD. I really believe that in the longer term, this is much better than renting. Of course, if you are only here for a year or two or so with no plans to have Bangkok as a permanent or part-time base of any sort then its better to rent.

[Boon Mee]

my 2 cents...

1) in general, rent, don't buy. 

in summary, it's your money.  you can do anything you want with it.  just remember, this is not america.

thailand is a great place to live your life.  but be careful. and don't EVER forget, we are just guests here.

Best advice thus far in this thread. haha has summed it up nicely.

The farang will always be just a guest.

[susah_sih]

my 2 cents...

1) in general, rent, don't buy. 

in summary, it's your money.  you can do anything you want with it.  just remember, this is not america.

thailand is a great place to live your life.  but be careful. and don't EVER forget, we are just guests here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Best advice thus far in this thread. haha has summed it up nicely.

The farang will always be just a guest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You see I hailed from Hong Kong, in my view Bangkok is very

similar to Hong Kong in the old days. Many foreigners in Hong Kong who

have been in the city for more than 30 years have regrets that they didnt

buy apartments in HK because they didnt trust Hong Kong property developers and

chose instead to rent. Now, despite the slump, HK apartments

cost a fortune to own. For some apartments with basic furnishings in

the New Territory for example will cost Bt400,000-500,000/sq meter easy.

Hence, some Bt100,000/sq meter Bangkok apartment with a name like the

Regent and very nice furnishing is a truly affordable luxury.

I believe Bangkok in the foreseeable future will move to a stage where

Hong Kong is now. It would be a mistake if you miss riding the growth.

[trajan]

You see I hailed from Hong Kong, in my view Bangkok is very

similar to Hong Kong in the old days. Many foreigners in Hong Kong who

have been in the city for more than 30 years have regrets that they didnt

buy apartments in HK because they didnt trust Hong Kong property developers and

chose instead to rent. Now, despite the slump, HK apartments

cost a fortune to own. For some apartments with basic furnishings in

the New Territory for example will cost Bt400,000-500,000/sq meter easy.

Hence, some Bt100,000/sq meter Bangkok apartment with a name like the

Regent and very nice furnishing is a truly affordable luxury.

I believe Bangkok in the foreseeable future will move to a stage where

Hong Kong is now. It would be a mistake if you miss riding the growth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I completely agree with you..I've only been based in Bangkok for 10 years and regret that I didnt buy (instead of rent) much much sooner (Ive bought a few units in the last few years and buying another soon)...although there is no guarantee for the future...over all the future is bright....I think the trick is to buy the best location (and of course, quality construction and maintenance)....

I also understand that in HK, the most you can buy is on a long term leasehold basis (not fee simple absolute freehold basis)..is that right?....Here in BKK you can buy on freehold basis...(probably not important practically, but important for re-sale... at least here in BKK)..

I attended the HUGE 1997 handover party in HK and stayed at a friend's condo (both top leval execs) in Mid-Levels... modest in size but high floor and very nice view of harbor (BUT MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE)..dont know how you guys do it...no wonder everyone is frantically earning money and rushing about there like people on "speed".....also no wonder there were so many HK buyers in the Athenee Residence (even in light of its highest costs per sq meter in BKK) when I visited the sales office!