Should I Open A Beauty Salon For My Tg?

[Harmonica]

With 4+ years in LOS I have thus far refrained from getting involved in any business or land/house purchase -- the Thai Stock market is my ONLY financial involvement here and it has paid off in spades -- as a medium-term player it pays for ALL my expenses here and even let's me put aside a healthy sum. That's the good news.

The bad news or should I say, tricky situation? .... My TG (of 4+ years) has gotten a couple Diplomas during our time together and is now very interested in studying to acquire a Beauty School certificate in the hopes that she can get a job in a Salon and/or open her own Salon.

Please, no wisecracks about her leaving me after I setup the biz. -- even if that were to happen it would be OK with me (albeit distressing) because she has taken outstanding care of me thus far. Furthermore, the biz could be setup in my name -- and we are not talking about alot of money here. Let's move on.

I would like to hear from anybody who has ventured into this type of activity; the angles, pitfalls etc. My observation about biz in general here is that failures occur quite rapidly, some even within as little as 6 months after starting.

It is self-evident that there are many Salons all over the place and consequently I figure there is plenty of competition. A fellow I met recently told me he was paying over 100,000/month rent for a shop space at the new Central Festival in Phuket. He claims his initial investment was 3 mil. I could not get him to talk honestly as he was trying to impress me in order to get moolah out of me for further investment; which of course I declined to proffer.

What I visualized was possibly a 300,000 to 600,000 initial investment for a shop that is middle-of-the-road and certainly not of the Cental Plaza style.

Can such a setup generate 25,000 plus Baht/month net relatively easily for my TG running it by herself after I set it up for her or am I totally off and just like many others, might have to close shop in a few months and say Adios to the initial dough?

Your thoughts, suggestions, caveats etc. are all welcome. Many thanks.

[KronbergTH]

Can such a setup generate 25,000 plus Baht/month net relatively easily for my TG running it by herself after I set it up for her or am I totally off and just like many others, might have to close shop in a few months and say Adios to the initial dough?

No problem to make 40-50,000 a month in a shophouse. Never mind location, the network is the key. In Thailand network is always the key. If no network, no costumers... In a shophouse salon, you need network in local area. In a hotspot, you need a better network than just neighbours...

[cdnvic]

Please, no wisecracks about her leaving me after I setup the biz. -- even if that were to happen it would be OK with me (albeit distressing) because she has taken outstanding care of me thus far.  Furthermore, the biz could be setup in my name -- and we are not talking about alot of money here.  Let's move on.

With the proper paperwork and legalities taken care of even this shouldn't be a problem.

cv

[Digger]

My experience of this has not been too positive. Thai's have a tendency to lose interest in things. Particularly if too much hard work is involved. You might find it easier to look at buying a small property that she can just rent out as a means for her to generate an independant income and provide some security.

Also working hours in retail are very long - what impact would that have on your relationship and would it create more problems than it solves. Finding good reliable staff is not easy.

[mbkudu]

Just wait until you tell her you want to write up a business plan . I helped my wife set up a business in the countryside (in other words I gave her money to do it, she had the land already). I asked her to prepare some sort of business plan. She looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "Why can't I just do it? Why so much thinking about it?" I relented and luckily everything worked out and the business is doing well.

If your girlfriend is unwilling to write one up, maybe you could write one up yourself. One thing good about a salon business is that the investment is rather low. Like someone said here already, networks are key. If she has worked in the bar scene before, she will have a good network of friends and acqaintences who could be a good customer base. Take a look around the city and you will see how many salons there already are, so location is important.

[Ijustwannateach]

As a choice of occupation, however, she'll be getting into one of the most over-saturated and cutthroat choices in the Thai labor market. I personally know 4 different individuals studying to be hairdressers currently, all with farang partners, all with the plan to make some sort of "shop." I've seen neighborhood streets in the Moban with 3 beauty salons per block. There are just too many people with too few skills. If this is just something to keep her occupied and out of your hair, fair enough- if you really want her to have some sort of security, I'd find some other occupation. Of course, as above, if she already has a huge clientele, that could make the difference.

"Steven"

[davethailand]

Can such a setup generate 25,000 plus Baht/month net relatively easily for my TG running it by herself after I set it up for her or am I totally off and just like many others, might have to close shop in a few months and say Adios to the initial dough?

No problem to make 40-50,000 a month in a shophouse. Never mind location, the network is the key. In Thailand network is always the key. If no network, no costumers... In a shophouse salon, you need network in local area. In a hotspot, you need a better network than just neighbours...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no problem to make 40-50000 a month in a shophouse?

hmmm not to sure about that.

[Tornado]

For a general run of the mill salon, I would say it is very hard to make 30k a month as haircuts are so cheap. My wife (maybe ex) wanted to start something up, but I didnt think the figures tallied up.

Haircuts are 60 to 100 baht here in Phuket. It would be like working for peanuts.

The initial set up, rent and waiting for a client list wouldnt be cost effective IMHO.

Edited December 20, 2004 by Tornado

[Ijustwannateach]

Yeah, let's see- location in an average commercial district, not a big shopping mall or high-so neighborhood- *maybe* if you go middle-to-upmarket you'll get 100B a cut... so that means if you have 20 customers a day (sounds unlikely unless you get a really prime location which means you pay more rent) you get 60K gross a month. From that, let's say 15K rent and utilities, 5K supplies and other overhead, and at least 2 assistants at 5K a month each- so your profit winds up being 30K a month, IF you get 20 customers a day.

The shop next to my school gets a lot of kids- at 50B a pop for simple hair cuts- they go for volume, but they're pretty basic and they have 4 haircutters working.

I'd assume your gf is going for "class," which means fewer customers. A tough market, as I said.

"Steven"

[ZOVOX]

I know a few people who are hairdressers by trade and they say that it is very difficult to open a beauty parlour in bangkok, because there are just so many. it would take a long time and hard work to establish a good client base. One of them recently opened two beauty parlours in the northeast, and both are doing well. although the potential profits are less than in bangkok, the setup costs and rent were far less. With the high rents for good locations in bangkok, you could find yourself losing all your money before you start to make any money !

[britmaveric]

Start a new one would be hard I'd expect- so bloody many of them around. I'd say prob be better to buy one out if possible. Clients will largely remain the same. I'd agree any of the services provided are going to next to nothing.

Local hairdresser I always see in Pattaya- haircut, facial, manicure, pedicure, scaling - all for less than 10quid.

[mbkudu]

I'm not sure what the cost is, but buying a 7-11 franchise is a good idea. They're just Baht magnets. A few years ago I talked a Greek chap who owned one in Patunam and swore up and down it was the best thing he'd ever done.

Then the girl would have a highly respectable job .

Edited December 20, 2004 by mbkudu

[brianbrain]

I'm not sure what the cost is, but buying a 7-11 franchise is a good idea. They're just Baht magnets. A few years ago I talked a Greek chap who owned one in Patunam and swore up and down it was the best thing he'd ever done.

Then the girl would have a highly respectable job .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.worldfranchising.com/Top100/Retail/7Eleven.htm

"The fee for a 7-11 franchise varies depending on the past total gross profit (excluding gasoline sales if applicable) experienced by each individual store during a 12-month cycle, i.e. franchisees pay more for more successful locations. The fee for a store with sales less than $200,000 in 12 months is fixed at $10,000. For stores with sales of $200,001 to $250,000, the fee equals 5% of the store’s historical sales volume, generally between $10,000 and $12,500. Stores with sales between $250,001 and $300,000 come at a fee of 10% of past sales volume, or $25,000 to $30,000. Franchisees taking over a store with sales exceeding $300,000, pay a 15% franchise fee of $45,000 or more. Some fees run as high as $231,000. Fees for brand new store locations are determined by the high gross profits of other locations. Financing is available............

7-11 franchisees pay on-going fees equaling 52% of gross revenues. The fee includes the 7-11 service mark and system, the facilities’ lease and continuing services and pays for property, building and equipment rent; property taxes; heat, cooling, electricity and water; national advertising; bookkeeping, auditing and financial reports; merchandising, product selection and price recommendations; point-of-sale materials; general business advisory assistance and local and national franchisee advisory councils. Franchisees may also be responsible for varying advertising fees."

[brianbrain]

And here's a link to get more information on 7-11 franchises.

http://www.franchiseworks.com/advertiser.a...d=43&p=platinum

Incidentally, I know nothing about 7-11 (other than the using it to buy snacks and chat up the girls) but it does seem like an idea worth considering. To quote:

"7-Eleven® franchisees are independent contractors, and 7-Eleven's relationship with them is multi-faceted. The company is not only a franchisor, but also serves as landlord, financing source, business advisor and record keeper to the franchisee."

Sounds ideal for any situation involving a Thai partner.

If you can read Thai, try this:

http://www.7eleven.co.th/7eleven.asp?fname...e/Franchise.asp (Thai)

Edited December 20, 2004 by brianbrain

[ZOVOX]

I'm not sure what the cost is, but buying a 7-11 franchise is a good idea. They're just Baht magnets. A few years ago I talked a Greek chap who owned one in Patunam and swore up and down it was the best thing he'd ever done.

Then the girl would have a highly respectable job .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.worldfranchising.com/Top100/Retail/7Eleven.htm

"The fee for a 7-11 franchise varies depending on the past total gross profit (excluding gasoline sales if applicable) experienced by each individual store during a 12-month cycle, i.e. franchisees pay more for more successful locations. The fee for a store with sales less than $200,000 in 12 months is fixed at $10,000. For stores with sales of $200,001 to $250,000, the fee equals 5% of the store’s historical sales volume, generally between $10,000 and $12,500. Stores with sales between $250,001 and $300,000 come at a fee of 10% of past sales volume, or $25,000 to $30,000. Franchisees taking over a store with sales exceeding $300,000, pay a 15% franchise fee of $45,000 or more. Some fees run as high as $231,000. Fees for brand new store locations are determined by the high gross profits of other locations. Financing is available............

7-11 franchisees pay on-going fees equaling 52% of gross revenues. The fee includes the 7-11 service mark and system, the facilities’ lease and continuing services and pays for property, building and equipment rent; property taxes; heat, cooling, electricity and water; national advertising; bookkeeping, auditing and financial reports; merchandising, product selection and price recommendations; point-of-sale materials; general business advisory assistance and local and national franchisee advisory councils. Franchisees may also be responsible for varying advertising fees."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any ideas on where you find franchises for sale - you never seem to find any for sale. I've tried their thai website.

[brianbrain]

Any ideas on where you find franchises for sale - you never seem to find any for sale. I've tried their thai website.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, I just buy peanuts and chat up the girls, but you could try this...

http://www.7eleven.co.th/7eleven.asp?fname...e/Franchise.asp

[PeaceBlondie]

I'll never go into business, because I'm too lazy to figure out all the 'what if?' questions. How much does advertising cost, and what's the most effective medium? Which govt. officials need to be bribed? Is there a local mafia? What about amphur, provincial, national regulatory agencies? Where can I get reliable help that actually comes to work on time (more or less) and doesn't steal (very much)? How many people will come to my store? How do I know this? Who told me, and why would they know? What do I know about this business? What insurance coverage do I need? Who's a good lawyer, a good insurance agent, the right supplier? Where should I locate? How much is rent? Who are the customers in that neighborhood? What do I never know if I don't speak the local language? Just because she's my girlfriend, what does she know about this business? How much do supplies cost? When are peak times? What do customers really want? Who is my competition? etc. etc.

[KronbergTH]

No problem to make 40-50,000 a month in a shophouse. Never mind location, the network is the key. In Thailand network is always the key. If no network, no costumers...  In a shophouse salon, you need network in local area. In a hotspot, you need a better network than just neighbours...

no problem to make 40-50000 a month in a shophouse? hmmm not to sure about that.

I am sure BUT as I said, no problem IF you have the network...

[mbkudu]

I'll never go into business, because I'm too lazy to figure out all the 'what if?' questions.  How much does advertising cost, and what's the most effective medium?  Which govt. officials need to be bribed?  Is there a local mafia?  What about amphur, provincial, national regulatory agencies?  Where can I get reliable help that actually comes to work on time (more or less) and doesn't steal (very much)?  How many people will come to my store?  How do I know this?  Who told me, and why would they know?  What do I know about this business?  What insurance coverage do I need?  Who's a good lawyer, a good insurance agent, the right supplier?  Where should I locate?  How much is rent?  Who are the customers in that neighborhood?  What do I never know if I don't speak the local language?  Just because she's my girlfriend, what does she know about this business?  How much do supplies cost?  When are peak times?  What do customers really want?  Who is my competition?  etc. etc.

I hate to quote the old cliche, but here goes, 'Those who can't, teach, and those who teach, can't.' Or something like that

[mbkudu]

Thanks Brianbrain for all the Sevvy info. I read in the Bangkok Post not long ago that CP is puting together a big campaign to expand the number of stores by a few hundred, so there must be a huge potential for growth.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'll never go into business, because I'm too lazy to figure out all the 'what if?' questions.  How much does advertising cost, and what's the most effective medium?  Which govt. officials need to be bribed?  Is there a local mafia?  What about amphur, provincial, national regulatory agencies?  Where can I get reliable help that actually comes to work on time (more or less) and doesn't steal (very much)?  How many people will come to my store?  How do I know this?  Who told me, and why would they know?  What do I know about this business?  What insurance coverage do I need?  Who's a good lawyer, a good insurance agent, the right supplier?  Where should I locate?  How much is rent?  Who are the customers in that neighborhood?  What do I never know if I don't speak the local language?  Just because she's my girlfriend, what does she know about this business?  How much do supplies cost?  When are peak times?  What do customers really want?  Who is my competition?  etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate to quote the old cliche, but here goes, 'Those who can't, teach, and those who teach, can't.' Or something like that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

mbkdudu, if you hate it, you could find a better cliche, or not say that one. What's your point? Those who can't open beauty salons, shouldn't. Those who are good at teaching, can and should and I do. What are you good for, at, or with?

[mbkudu]

There's a smily face at the end of it for a reason, no? Sorry if I got your goat, just having some fun.

I have the utmost respect for teachers actually; I was one myself here in Thailand for 9 years.

Edited December 20, 2004 by mbkudu

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry to have missed your smilie. Here's one back at ya' - oh heck, they're free, take several:

[mbkudu]

Peace! .......Blondie .

[Dakhar]

I have a sis-in-law that is currently taking beautician courses. Her mother plans on building an nice complex in the village/neighborhood and have her set up shop within the complex. I had no idea that 30K baht could be earned by doing so.

[Harmonica]

Fellows, I am overwhelmed by your generosity. Thanks.

I have some follow-up questions, but first I'd like to clarify the premise -- I just want to setup something successful for her that she can call her own; She comes from a very poor northern family and at 23 (she has one sister, 8 yrs old and no brothers) is the person that her family is depending on. She is eager to learn and work. She has taken outstanding care of me for 4 years and our relationship is flying. It would be criminal of me not to help her attain some form of financial independence thru' an acquired skill. The Beauty Salon thing is her idea as she is fascinated by that field. If this proves to be an unsound business idea I will have to keep brainstorming and who knows, perhaps with your help, I might get lucky.

mbkudu, Britmaverick & Zovox, the franchise idea, though sound, would require alot of work on my part and that is not what I can or am prepared to do.

>>>> KronbergTH, your point on "networking" makes sense, but may I ask how you are so certain of the 25-50,000 Baht/month net income? Do you know someone who has done something like this and pulled it off? Appreciate your input. Thanks.

>>>> Also working hours in retail are very long - what impact would that have on your relationship and would it create more problems than it solves.

Thanks Digger. Excellent point.

>>>>> Haircuts are 60 to 100 baht here in Phuket. It would be like working for peanuts.

Amen! Distressing numbers indeed! Thanks Tornado. Please refer to question about 100 Baht/cut below. Your opinion please.

>>>>>> Yeah, let's see- location in an average commercial district, not a big shopping mall or high-so neighborhood- *maybe* if you go middle-to-upmarket you'll get 100B a cut... so that means if you have 20 customers a day (sounds unlikely unless you get a really prime location which means you pay more rent) you get 60K gross a month. From that, let's say 15K rent and utilities, 5K supplies and other overhead, and at least 2 assistants at 5K a month each- so your profit winds up being 30K a month, IF you get 20 customers a day.

OK "Ijustwannateach", agreed 20/day would be iffy/optimistic. Clarification: 100 Baht/cut? Salons in Central Plaza charge around 350-550 Baht/cut and there are a number of other services they offer like manicures, pedicures, facials etc. My question then would be: for a middle-of-the-road place would there be such a drastic drop in price/cut compared to Central? Furthermore wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that each customer would opt for more than one service/visit? Your thoughts please ...

Looking forward to more of your help & expertise. Thanks.

[britmaveric]

Hair Salon business will keep your gf occuppied for long hrs- normally open from 9AM - 9PM, 7 days a week. Granted you can set your own hours, but normally business dictates hours of operation.

Edited December 20, 2004 by britmaveric

[Harmonica]

Slightly off-topic, please bear with me -- Phuket has only one remaining school (Cosmo) that offers a full-fledged Beauty Salon course. We've already spoken to the owner, but my impression of the place was just so-so. The course (8-month) fee is 27,000 Baht.

I've heard that there is a top-notch school in BKK that is so good that graduates are pretty much guaranteed a job at a prime Salon earning 10,000-15,000/month (as an employee, of course). Designers, a breed that arrives at such a destination after about 2-4 yrs. of creative work experience, can pull 25,000 Baht/mo. as managers/consultants at top Salons. This is all hearsay as I've not been able to verify any of it and its not for lack of trying.

Sock it to me if I'm wrong. Other alternatives for coursework? Thank you.

[Khun Jean]

Here is another idea. I found out myself.

I lived in a mooban with my wife close to her parents. This mooban has around 5-600 people living there, many children.

I worked remote on the internet and my wife got a bit bored. So we started a "fast food" outlet. We called it "Just for fun".

The menu was simple. French fries, Hotdogs, hamburger, spaghetti, frozen fruit drinks

The first day was 2000 baht!! 1000 of it was profit.

Eventually it settled to around 500 baht on weekdays and 800 on weekends.

Pressure very very low. Investments very very low (Electrical frying pan fr french fries, mixer for the drinks). Rent well it was in front of the house so "nothing".

Monthly income of around 20.000 baht.

If you want you can franchise "Just for fun" for a fee of let me think. 0%

Oh i forgot to mention the prices.

French fries 10,20 baht.

Hotdog 20 baht

Hamburger 20-30 baht

Spaghetti 20-30 baht.

Fruit drinks 10 baht

These prices are a lot cheaper than McDonalds, KFC (yuck)..

For most thais too xpensive to go eat their with the kids. But with me it was possible.

I used the prices/weight of what i bought (Macro) and sold it for double the price. I used a small scale first to get the portions right.

My sister in law, who has a beauty salon and studied 2 years for that and is very very good at her job was jealous of the money we made. So she took over (for free of course) when we went to live in Koh Samui.

Edited December 20, 2004 by Khun Jean

[Dakhar]

I find out authors views of responsability for his GF rather touching. So apparently she has done good for him and he knows he will probably leave this earth before here, so he would like to leave her something behind "in-kind" for being such a dutiful person in his life....

Sounds good to me. OK, realestate... she would then have something that would take little effort to maintain, and last into her older years. This would be important, because no one wants to be cutting hair in to their 80s. Secondly, it is something that if the author had family members that could possibly take all the he has left behind, the realestate would be untouchable for many reasons. One location, 2 it could be possibly entirely in her name as long as there was no lean on the property etc. It would be hers, period... which we all know can back fire.

But lets say that he has a huge amount of trust in her, then I 'd say go for it.