Fly Fishing In Thailand - Beware !

[sailfishonthefly]

We have travelled to Thailand many times and fished very successfully for many different species in a lot of regions of Thailand. We decided we would like to fly fish for the barramundi and searched the internet for a company who specialized in this form of fishing. We found a site and emailed to enquire the cost (the prices had been on the site but had been removed) - the owner of this company was quite hostile with his reply and wanted to know why we were asking seeing we already have links on our site to two other fishing companies in Thailand. This company supplied all the tackle so with this in mind we booked a day for 2 people (almost £300) and had to pay in full in advance.

Just before we were due to travel our airline cancelled our flight to Bangkok due to the closure of the airport so we emailed this company to ask for a refund of our money due to circumstances beyond our control. He

referred us to his `terms` which state no refunds and since then he hasnt had the courtesy to reply to our emails.

The flights we had booked were on non refundable tickets but the airline have given us a full refund, also the airline for the internal flights and the hotel in Bangkok have both refunded all our money due to the ex ceptional circumstances.

The name of this company is called flyfishthailand and the owner is from the UK (same country as ourselv es).

Oh and by the way his terms also state that should you break or damage any of his tackle with the exception of flies and leaders you will have to pay for a full replacement plus shipping cost, import duty and taxes and payment is due immediately. We fly fish extensively all around the world and have never experienced these terms and conditions before and can assure everyone that we will never ever be booking with this company again and will be delighted to tell everyone we meet everywhere in the world how we were ripped off in Thailand by one of our fellow countrymen.

So just beware if booking this company if you cannot complete your trip you`ve lost your money.

[Duce]

We have travelled to Thailand many times and fished very successfully for many different species in a lot of regions of Thailand. We decided we would like to fly fish for the barramundi and searched the internet for a company who specialized in this form of fishing. We found a site and emailed to enquire the cost (the prices had been on the site but had been removed) - the owner of this company was quite hostile with his reply and wanted to know why we were asking seeing we already have links on our site to two other fishing companies in Thailand. This company supplied all the tackle so with this in mind we booked a day for 2 people (almost £300) and had to pay in full in advance.

Just before we were due to travel our airline cancelled our flight to Bangkok due to the closure of the airport so we emailed this company to ask for a refund of our money due to circumstances beyond our control. He

referred us to his `terms` which state no refunds and since then he hasnt had the courtesy to reply to our emails.

The flights we had booked were on non refundable tickets but the airline have given us a full refund, also the airline for the internal flights and the hotel in Bangkok have both refunded all our money due to the ex ceptional circumstances.

The name of this company is called flyfishthailand and the owner is from the UK (same country as ourselv es).

Oh and by the way his terms also state that should you break or damage any of his tackle with the exception of flies and leaders you will have to pay for a full replacement plus shipping cost, import duty and taxes and payment is due immediately. We fly fish extensively all around the world and have never experienced these terms and conditions before and can assure everyone that we will never ever be booking with this company again and will be delighted to tell everyone we meet everywhere in the world how we were ripped off in Thailand by one of our fellow countrymen.

So just beware if booking this company if you cannot complete your trip you`ve lost your money.

Thanks for the heads up and sorry to hear of this experience what was the name and location to avoid.

[sailfishonthefly]

We have travelled to Thailand many times and fished very successfully for many different species in a lot of regions of Thailand. We decided we would like to fly fish for the barramundi and searched the internet for a company who specialized in this form of fishing. We found a site and emailed to enquire the cost (the prices had been on the site but had been removed) - the owner of this company was quite hostile with his reply and wanted to know why we were asking seeing we already have links on our site to two other fishing companies in Thailand. This company supplied all the tackle so with this in mind we booked a day for 2 people (almost £300) and had to pay in full in advance.

Just before we were due to travel our airline cancelled our flight to Bangkok due to the closure of the airport so we emailed this company to ask for a refund of our money due to circumstances beyond our control. He

referred us to his `terms` which state no refunds and since then he hasnt had the courtesy to reply to our emails.

The flights we had booked were on non refundable tickets but the airline have given us a full refund, also the airline for the internal flights and the hotel in Bangkok have both refunded all our money due to the ex ceptional circumstances.

The name of this company is called flyfishthailand and the owner is from the UK (same country as ourselv es).

Oh and by the way his terms also state that should you break or damage any of his tackle with the exception of flies and leaders you will have to pay for a full replacement plus shipping cost, import duty and taxes and payment is due immediately. We fly fish extensively all around the world and have never experienced these terms and conditions before and can assure everyone that we will never ever be booking with this company again and will be delighted to tell everyone we meet everywhere in the world how we were ripped off in Thailand by one of our fellow countrymen.

So just beware if booking this company if you cannot complete your trip you`ve lost your money.

Thanks for the heads up and sorry to hear of this experience what was the name and location to avoid.

[sailfishonthefly]

This company operates out of Bangkok, the name of the company is flyfishthailand and the man in question is called Martyn Skues or Max or Captain McKenzie Skues. Just beware of his terms because

regardless of the situation he will not change his mind and refund any money. He is now approx £300

better off for doing absolutely nothing while we sit here in freezing UK thinking about the fishing that might have been.

We are both qualified fly fishing instructors in the UK and know we would never ever treat a client in this

way. It is our duty to make sure our clients are well taken care of and get exactly what they have paid for and hopefully they will be completely satisfied and enjoy the experience. A refund due to exceptional circumstances would be totally acceptable. Maybe this company are not too busy and have to keep all

the money just in case !!

[MyphuketLife]

This company operates out of Bangkok, the name of the company is flyfishthailand and the man in question is called Martyn Skues or Max or Captain McKenzie Skues. Just beware of his terms because

regardless of the situation he will not change his mind and refund any money. He is now approx £300

better off for doing absolutely nothing while we sit here in freezing UK thinking about the fishing that might have been.

We are both qualified fly fishing instructors in the UK and know we would never ever treat a client in this

way. It is our duty to make sure our clients are well taken care of and get exactly what they have paid for and hopefully they will be completely satisfied and enjoy the experience. A refund due to exceptional circumstances would be totally acceptable. Maybe this company are not too busy and have to keep all

the money just in case !!

If you paid by CC I would just do a charge back 'services not rendered'.... he sounds like a crappy business owner.

[Fishingfishing]

We have travelled to Thailand many times and fished very successfully for many different species in a lot of regions of Thailand. We decided we would like to fly fish for the barramundi and searched the internet for a company who specialized in this form of fishing. We found a site and emailed to enquire the cost (the prices had been on the site but had been removed) - the owner of this company was quite hostile with his reply and wanted to know why we were asking seeing we already have links on our site to two other fishing companies in Thailand. This company supplied all the tackle so with this in mind we booked a day for 2 people (almost £300) and had to pay in full in advance.

Just before we were due to travel our airline cancelled our flight to Bangkok due to the closure of the airport so we emailed this company to ask for a refund of our money due to circumstances beyond our control. He

referred us to his `terms` which state no refunds and since then he hasnt had the courtesy to reply to our emails.

The flights we had booked were on non refundable tickets but the airline have given us a full refund, also the airline for the internal flights and the hotel in Bangkok have both refunded all our money due to the ex ceptional circumstances.

The name of this company is called flyfishthailand and the owner is from the UK (same country as ourselv es).

Oh and by the way his terms also state that should you break or damage any of his tackle with the exception of flies and leaders you will have to pay for a full replacement plus shipping cost, import duty and taxes and payment is due immediately. We fly fish extensively all around the world and have never experienced these terms and conditions before and can assure everyone that we will never ever be booking with this company again and will be delighted to tell everyone we meet everywhere in the world how we were ripped off in Thailand by one of our fellow countrymen.

So just beware if booking this company if you cannot complete your trip you`ve lost your money.

Thank you to the person who forwarded this defamatory and inaccurrate post to me.

There are several issues which need to be clarified which have not been published by Mr Carlson.

1. Afeter receiving a booking enquiry from Mr Carlson, I was puzzled as to why he wanted to fish with we when he has an exisiting relationship with other fishing companies in Thailand. Hostile ????

2. TERMS & CONDITIONS are clearly shown on my website. I also email a copy to all customers enquiries. Mr Carlson received terms & conditions and was clearly notified of their inclusion. These terms and conditions are in line with most other international fishing guides & outfitters.

There is little point in publishing terms and conditions only to ignore them at a later date.

3. Mr Carlson was fully aware of the terms and conditions applicable to his booking before paying any money. Our terms & conditions CLEARLY advise custmers to take out travel insurance against such unforseen eventualities. This was NOT suddenly sprung on him after the event.

4. If Mr Carlson was unhappy with the stated terms & conditions he should have said so before booking or gone to another service

5. Terms and conditions are put in place to protect BOTH parties in the event of unforseen circumstances and to allow each party to make their own prudent insurance arrangements

6. INSURANCE - why is Mr Carlson not claiming against his travel insurance ? His flight was cancelled yet there were over 20 flights scheduled to fly to Bangkok on his orignal departue date. As he had received a refund from his airline, re booking would be a simple process.

7. Mr Carlon's contention that he could not claim against his travel insurance becuase of "civil unrest" is disengeneous and a flawed statement. Mr Carlson did not travel because he CHOSE not to travel. I remind you again that BKK airports were open at the time of his intended travel date and flights were operational from the UK. Furthermore travel insurance is there to cover such events.

8. EMAIL - I replied to Mr Carlson's email. I pointed out the terms and conditions of booking - which he already had. I advised him that I would co-opertae with his insurance company in every way and offered him fishing at a later date, anytime within the next 6 months.

9. Mr Carlson was fully aware of the terms and conditions BEFORE booking. I believe Mr Carlson has no travel insurance and tried to bully me into refunding his money which he failed to insure. He has been unsuccessful in bullying - now he tries defamation. A cowardly act.

10. As a matter of fact - when I receive funds for booking I book transport, fishing and an assistant guide. These people GET PAID if the guest arrives or not. I do not go whining to them that I cannot pay them because my guest didn't arrive and I have to refund money. These people have been paid for Mr Carlson's fishing day.

11. Had I cancelled Mr Carlson's fishing trip then I would have been liable and refunded in full.

Mr Carlson - you were fully aware of the terms and conditions before booking.

Mr Carlson why have you not claimed from your travel insurance ? - because you have none !

Max

[Galong]

This company operates out of Bangkok, the name of the company is flyfishthailand and the man in question is called Martyn Skues or Max or Captain McKenzie Skues. Just beware of his terms because

regardless of the situation he will not change his mind and refund any money. He is now approx £300

better off for doing absolutely nothing while we sit here in freezing UK thinking about the fishing that might have been.

We are both qualified fly fishing instructors in the UK and know we would never ever treat a client in this

way. It is our duty to make sure our clients are well taken care of and get exactly what they have paid for and hopefully they will be completely satisfied and enjoy the experience. A refund due to exceptional circumstances would be totally acceptable. Maybe this company are not too busy and have to keep all

the money just in case !!

If you paid by CC I would just do a charge back 'services not rendered'.... he sounds like a crappy business owner.

No, he is professional in all aspects of business and his terms and conditions are identical to those of any reputable business.

Show me a company that gives full refunds and I'll show you a business that is about to go out of business. This is standard operating procedure and this is exactly why Max and all other professionals suggest that potential clients buy travel insurance.

Mr. Carlson obviously doesn't want to be fair to Mr. Skues by asking for a full refund. This is HIS problem, not Mr. Skues'.

[percy2]

Reading between the lines I suspect Mr Skues is correct.

But what is obvious is he has no clue about public relations.

If it had been me I would have limited my reply to the following

I advised him that I would co-opertae with his insurance company in every way and offered him fishing at a later date, anytime within the next 6 months.

Rather than attacking Mr Carslon.

The best business you can can have is where both parties walk away happy.

Cheers

[MyphuketLife]

6. INSURANCE - why is Mr Carlson not claiming against his travel insurance ? His flight was cancelled yet there were over 20 flights scheduled to fly to Bangkok on his orignal departue date. As he had received a refund from his airline, re booking would be a simple process.

In reading your reply you don't sound too bad, but your #6 is wrong, the insurance companies are denying peoples claims because their fine print sates that they don't cover civil unrest, and the airport closer was a direct result of civil unrest.

If he was traveling during the time of the closer, and his flight was canceled then you should work with him.... Not working with people in sticky situations is what causes business like yours to get a bad name (even if not deserved). Now on the otherside if he just decided to not come to Thailand on his own, and it was before the airport closer I would hold him to the terms…. If it was after or during the airport closer you really should work with him.

[sailfishonthefly]

It was interesting to read what Mr Skues had to say. We were fully aware of the non cancellation terms as mentioned in the original post.

When we were due to travel to Thailand at the beginning of December there was major civil unrest particularly at Bangkok`s two main airports. Because there was no sign of the main airport being open for normal air traffic the vast majority of airlines flying from the UK to Bangkok cancelled their flights, hence we were unable to travel. It was because of this situation totally outside our control that we asked whether there was a possibility of having a refund despite the terms and conditions to the contrary.

Had we been merely disinclined to travel to Thailand we would have had no problem with the cancellation terms However major civil unrest is slightly different.

As far as travel insurance in concerned - all issued in the UK specifically exclude civil unrest or similar.

Because we travel fairly extensively we always have full travel insurance and one of the exclusions on our policy states that we are not covered for anything caused as a consequence of insurrection and blockade.

Surely the closure of Bangkok airport was caused by a blockade of the militants - hence no cover.

We can only visit Thailand in the December/January period due to commitments at home and for virtually 20 years we have visited Thailand during this period for holidays between 4 and 7 weeks. It would have been nice if Mr Skues, as a matter of goodwill, had offered to carry over the days fishing until our next visit and that way it would have been a good public relations exercise. His terms allow a cancellation to be rebooked up to 6 months hence which was not convenient.

[percy2]

His terms allow a cancellation to be rebooked up to 6 months hence which was not convenient.

Giving 6 months grace seems fair , it not being convenient for you is unfortunate but hardly his fault.

Cheers

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

May I suggest a compromise that should suit both sides reasonable well.

Mr. Skues allow the trip to shifted into sailfishes next trip,assuming it does not extend past a year.

Sailfish agrees to pick up the cost to Mr. Skues for the first trip. i.e. the transport and fishing guide.

Would that work guys?

[percy2]

I think that you can only bend over backwards for people so far before you end up kissing your own arse.

I think he has already made a fair offer , and the OP should accept that.

Cheers

[Langsuan Man]

We have travelled to Thailand many times and fished very successfully for many different species in a lot of regions of Thailand. We decided we would like to fly fish for the barramundi and searched the internet for a company who specialized in this form of fishing. We found a site and emailed to enquire the cost (the prices had been on the site but had been removed) - the owner of this company was quite hostile with his reply and wanted to know why we were asking seeing we already have links on our site to two other fishing companies in Thailand.............

I could care less about fly fishing but it would appear to me that the OP should have known something was amiss from his statement of hostility on the part of the company. Yet he still chose to book with them.

Seems to me to be a perfect case of caveat emptor (let the buyer be aware) to me.

[Galong]

Oh and by the way his terms also state that should you break or damage any of his tackle with the exception of flies and leaders you will have to pay for a full replacement plus shipping cost, import duty and taxes and payment is due immediately. We fly fish extensively all around the world and have never experienced these terms and conditions before and can assure everyone that we will never ever be booking with this company again and will be delighted to tell everyone we meet everywhere in the world how we were ripped off in Thailand by one of our fellow countrymen.

How many different companies have you fly fished with that supply:

✔All transport from the moment you arrive at the airport

✔All accommodation, food, drinks, laundry, for your stay

✔All Fly Fishing Tackle (Tibor Reels, Loop and Sage Rods), Leaders, Flies you will need

Anyone in their right mind would put something in their terms and conditions if they're supplying you with a couple thousand dollars' worth of the best fly fishing gear money can buy!!

Do any of the other fly fishing tour operators offer this level of gear? Or, perhaps more appropriately, do they supply ANY fly fishing gear? I already know the answer bytheway.

I think you're full of 'it' and don't believe you when you say you've fish all over the world. Fly fishermen are tight-wads generally (except those from the UK at times.... since you brought up the fellow countrymen bit) and they have enough sense to figure out who is the real deal and who is fake. Max is real and if you know anything about fly fishing, you should realize from his family name that he comes from a family not only rich in fly fishing history, but who invented many of the techniques used the world over.

You come across as very hostile and arrogant. I don't blame Max for not wanting to have anything to do with you. If you were polite from the start, I guarantee he would have found some way of making everything right. I've fished with Max on a number of occasions and found him to be one of the most friendly and honest people I've ever met.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Galong

[ThailandFishingBangkok]

So let get get this straight

you booked a trip to Thailand and also a fishing trip that had terms and conditions

your airline canceled the flights and gave you money back

the airport opened and there were lots of flights to bangkok on the day that you wanted to depart

you asked for your money back from the fishing and didnt get it.

ok this to me seems cut and dry!!!

you could have re-booked your tickets (cheaper to now!) and come to thailand on the day that you wanted to travel as the airport was running so were the flights. so there was no reason why you couldnt go.

PLEASE TELL US WHY YOU ARE NOT GOING TO THAILAND!

be honest it is because you dont want to go now, not because you cant.

There are lots of flights.

lots of hotels

The fishing is waiting for you

The terms and conditions are plan and simple

The reason you are sitting in cold England is because you want to be there!

If you wanted you could be in warm Thailand Fishing!!

here are the rules read them

Do not go slagging companies off on the internet just because you cant get them to break the term and conditions that you agreed to.

you also have a web site if you proceed to go down this line of slander then I along with a lot of others will post warnings about you and your company not only on my web page but also on many high ranking pages.

Think long and hard about what you have done, think long and hard as to why you are not sitting in warm Thailand with some fish on the banks.

Think long and hard about what you have written in your emails about other companies and ask yourself do you want this to all come out in the open? (yes I have read them )

Think long and hard about the person and their reputation that you are slagging here!

I know we are not suppose to advertise ect on this forum or promote here, but I hope that the moderators will let this response stay.

Max is a stunning Fly Fisherman and has put some major effert into promoting Thialand, he is honest and trustworthy.

I have also fished many times with Max here in Thailand I highly recomend him.

it is not often that you find a honest opperator in the fishing game here but Max has been like a breath of fresh air.

I am aware that he has asked that this thread be removed but I ask that you leave it here for people to read as I feel that it has been turned around buy the facts, it is now something of a credit to Max and his business.

here is a man that plays buy the rules and sticks to them.

As for Mr Carlson

I hope you learn that terms and conditions are for protecting both sides, and just becasue you couldnt bend an operator to break his terms and conditions does not mean that you should slander him on the internet.

you can do a few things from here, take a trip to Thailand and go fishing (you have paid for it) or not. it is up to you!

but please dont write anymore about how bad this company is as Thailand does not need your clouded views at this moment in time when we are trying to rebuild the tourist industry.

[Galong]

Spot on ThailandFishingBangkok!!! Slagging off Max just because he (Mr Carlson) didn't agree with the contract AFTER THE FACT is rather pathetic!

Max is both a top-notch person and one of the most talented fly fishermen on the planet. It's too bad you didn't get to fish with him. I'm sure you would have learned a lot.

[Pakeha]

Let's not be too harsh on the OP. I'm pleased he did this post. I've been looking into some fishing for my next trip to LOS and now I have established a company to seek out - flyfishthailand.

It will be good to know any contractual arrangements entered into will be stuck to.

Great little bit of guerilla marketing!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

This tiresome snd potentially litigious thread is closed. Remarkable number of newbies commented. Might be time for me to do a search on multiple nicks.