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Posted (edited)

Just pulled 1000 Baht out of ATM using Nationwide Flex card.

Amount deducted from account = £19.51

Rate = 1000 Baht / £19.51 = 51.2558 Baht/£

Quoted international mid-market rate = 50.9497 Baht/£ (Source: xe.com)

Loss by bank by use of generous exchange rate = (51.2558 - 50.9497) / 50.9497 * 100% = 0.6%

Am I right in speculating that the difference between onshore and offshore rates is widening again? Or is the bank just being very friendly?

If the difference between onshore and offshore is widening, why is it widening, though this is a whole new thread. :o

Edited by Briggsy
Posted

I've been using my Nationwide ATM card in Thailand for the last 3 months.

I always get a better rate from them than the rates advertised at the exchange kiosks or on the Bangkok Bank website.

Posted
Just pulled 1000 Baht out of ATM using Nationwide Flex card.

Amount deducted from account = £19.51

Rate = 1000 Baht / £19.51 = 51.2558 Baht/£

Quoted international mid-market rate = 50.9497 Baht/£ (Source: xe.com)

Loss by bank by use of generous exchange rate = (51.2558 - 50.9497) / 50.9497 * 100% = 0.6%

Am I right in speculating that the difference between onshore and offshore rates is widening again? Or is the bank just being very friendly?

If the difference between onshore and offshore is widening, why is it widening, though this is a whole new thread. :o

we have since a few months a reverse onshore- offshore rate. off shore = slightly better (as opposed to olden times).

Posted

So I have been given an onshore rate. Usually ATM Nationwide Flex account debit card withdrawals attract a rate close to the TT rate.

It appears the Baht is stronger offshore. Thus I have been given the advantageous rate (at present).

If exchange controls have been lifted, why are there still different onshore and offshore rates?

Posted
So I have been given an onshore rate. Usually ATM Nationwide Flex account debit card withdrawals attract a rate close to the TT rate.

It appears the Baht is stronger offshore. Thus I have been given the advantageous rate (at present).

If exchange controls have been lifted, why are there still different onshore and offshore rates?

:o:D :D

Posted
So I have been given an onshore rate. Usually ATM Nationwide Flex account debit card withdrawals attract a rate close to the TT rate.

It appears the Baht is stronger offshore. Thus I have been given the advantageous rate (at present).

If exchange controls have been lifted, why are there still different onshore and offshore rates?

:o:D :D

I do not understand your confusion/unhelpful post. I received the onshore rate. £19.51 was debited from my UK bank account.

If I had received the offshore rate where the baht is slightly stronger, closer to £20 would have been debited from my account.

Thus it is better for people drawing on UK funds like myself to receive the onshore rate. I understand that using overseas debit cards in Thailand always results in the use of the onshore rate.

I think I have explained myself clearly. You will post a condescending reply that shows you are the font of all knowledge and the rest of the world ignoramuses as you normally do.

Posted
So I have been given an onshore rate. Usually ATM Nationwide Flex account debit card withdrawals attract a rate close to the TT rate.

It appears the Baht is stronger offshore. Thus I have been given the advantageous rate (at present).

If exchange controls have been lifted, why are there still different onshore and offshore rates?

:o:D :D

I do not understand your confusion/unhelpful post. I received the onshore rate. £19.51 was debited from my UK bank account.

If I had received the offshore rate where the baht is slightly stronger, closer to £20 would have been debited from my account.

Thus it is better for people drawing on UK funds like myself to receive the onshore rate. I understand that using overseas debit cards in Thailand always results in the use of the onshore rate.

I think I have explained myself clearly. You will post a condescending reply that shows you are the font of all knowledge and the rest of the world ignoramuses as you normally do.

my condescending reply is that you are still not aware (although it was posted in this thread) that on/offshore rates are reversed since months. for a better understanding i will type now very slowly enabling you to understand without any problems that applying the prevailing offshore (NOT onshore) rates are to the advantage of those who draw THB in or transfer THB to Thailand from their foreign accounts.

this of course does not apply to each and every bank. your case is more complicated as your calculation is based on the irrelevant "xe.com mid rate". a correct comparison can only be made by using TT rates from local thai banks.

Posted
my condescending reply is that you are still not aware (although it was posted in this thread) that on/offshore rates are reversed since months. for a better understanding i will type now very slowly enabling you to understand without any problems that applying the prevailing offshore (NOT onshore) rates are to the advantage of those who draw THB in or transfer THB to Thailand from their foreign accounts.

this of course does not apply to each and every bank. your case is more complicated as your calculation is based on the irrelevant "xe.com mid rate". a correct comparison can only be made by using TT rates from local thai banks.

Could you please provide a source for your assertion that the offshore rate is weaker than the onshore rate.

Also you state the xe.com mid-rate is irrelevant. I'm assuming you are saying this because it is only a nominal calculated mid-point rather than an actual 'offered' exchange rate at which trades may be made. If that is the case, once again please point me to your more accurate source of information for offshore rates.

Posted
my condescending reply is that you are still not aware (although it was posted in this thread) that on/offshore rates are reversed since months. for a better understanding i will type now very slowly enabling you to understand without any problems that applying the prevailing offshore (NOT onshore) rates are to the advantage of those who draw THB in or transfer THB to Thailand from their foreign accounts.

this of course does not apply to each and every bank. your case is more complicated as your calculation is based on the irrelevant "xe.com mid rate". a correct comparison can only be made by using TT rates from local thai banks.

Could you please provide a source for your assertion that the offshore rate is weaker than the onshore rate.

Also you state the xe.com mid-rate is irrelevant. I'm assuming you are saying this because it is only a nominal calculated mid-point rather than an actual 'offered' exchange rate at which trades may be made. If that is the case, once again please point me to your more accurate source of information for offshore rates.

you have to take my word for it Briggsy. my information comes from half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore. i have mentioned the reverse course in several financial threads since last summer (opened even a separate thread) but nobody showed any interest.

for the lack of interest i am blaming myself because most probably i did not use proper syntax. if i had used something like "Racist Thai Bankers Reverse Course And Cheat Poor Farangs Again" the result might have been different :o

Posted
you have to take my word for it Briggsy. my information comes from half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore. i have mentioned the reverse course in several financial threads since last summer (opened even a separate thread) but nobody showed any interest.

for the lack of interest i am blaming myself because most probably i did not use proper syntax. if i had used something like "Racist Thai Bankers Reverse Course And Cheat Poor Farangs Again" the result might have been different :o

When the available evidence points to the opposite, I see your failure to provide a source as suspect.

Exchange rates are not guarded secrets. If "half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore" are quoting weaker offshore rates, it should be very simple to provide a link. These are market rates offered to customers.

So once again please provide a link or source to back up your assertion.

Posted
you have to take my word for it Briggsy. my information comes from half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore. i have mentioned the reverse course in several financial threads since last summer (opened even a separate thread) but nobody showed any interest.

for the lack of interest i am blaming myself because most probably i did not use proper syntax. if i had used something like "Racist Thai Bankers Reverse Course And Cheat Poor Farangs Again" the result might have been different :o

When the available evidence points to the opposite, I see your failure to provide a source as suspect.

Exchange rates are not guarded secrets. If "half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore" are quoting weaker offshore rates, it should be very simple to provide a link. These are market rates offered to customers.

So once again please provide a link or source to back up your assertion.

it seems you have no idea about international banking. that's why i withdraw from a useless discussion :D

Posted

When the available evidence points to the opposite, I see your failure to provide a source as suspect.

Exchange rates are not guarded secrets. If "half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore" are quoting weaker offshore rates, it should be very simple to provide a link. These are market rates offered to customers.

So once again please provide a link or source to back up your assertion.

it seems you have no idea about international banking. that's why i withdraw from a useless discussion :o

And with a stereotypical condescending quip, Naam leaves the building, having failed to provide a source or a link. Rather telling that.

Some people find it very difficult to say, "I don't know." or "I was wrong."

Posted
you have to take my word for it Briggsy. my information comes from half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore. i have mentioned the reverse course in several financial threads since last summer (opened even a separate thread) but nobody showed any interest.

for the lack of interest i am blaming myself because most probably i did not use proper syntax. if i had used something like "Racist Thai Bankers Reverse Course And Cheat Poor Farangs Again" the result might have been different :o

When the available evidence points to the opposite, I see your failure to provide a source as suspect.

Exchange rates are not guarded secrets. If "half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore" are quoting weaker offshore rates, it should be very simple to provide a link. These are market rates offered to customers.

So once again please provide a link or source to back up your assertion.

I have to agree with Briggsy in general; the threads on this forum are full of posts like Naam's where "facts" are stated without any supporting evidence. I have a bee in my bonnet over some of the posts like this on the housing forum in particular. I have no problem with somebody dishing out advice (aka opinion) so long as it is couched in those terms, but stating "facts" without backing them up in some ways stinks of opinion disguised as fact. I have no idea about this specific case so will not comment nor can I be bothered to check the facts myself, I have better things to do, but I do get annoyed when a poster asks a perfectly reasonable question and some sad clown feels obliged to post unsubstantiated bs which is of no help to the op or any reader. To that extent, while the forum can be extremely helpful and has many informed, knowledgeable and intelligent members it also has more than its fair share of plonkers. Reader beware!

Nobody has mentioned the transaction fee here.........did the op really cash just 1000 baht? My US bank dings me $5 regardless of the amount I cash, so I tend to never cash less than 15K baht. BTW, it is actually CHEAPER to use your VISA or MC or whatever if it is linked to your bank account so you do not incur interest charges. In my case I can get as much as $7k in one go (unlikely, I'll agree) and there is both a very good rate and a flat $3 fee. O.K. you need your passport but otherwise, for me, it is the way to go. I'm sure Naam has a position on the likely rate, no doubt taken from a one time alignment of the planets, never to be repeated and unfortunately not observed by anybody else.

Posted

Thank you for your post, richm7.

In relation to your point on bank charges, all us UK expats are familiar with the Nationwide's (Its a building society akin to a bank) Flex account. It is the only UK bank offering free debit card withdrawals overseas. i.e. with no charges. The beauty of that is you can withdraw as little as you like, even 100 Baht, as there are no charges.

Sorry I don't know if any US banks offer the same facility.

Posted
Thank you for your post, richm7.

In relation to your point on bank charges, all us UK expats are familiar with the Nationwide's (Its a building society akin to a bank) Flex account. It is the only UK bank offering free debit card withdrawals overseas. i.e. with no charges. The beauty of that is you can withdraw as little as you like, even 100 Baht, as there are no charges.

Sorry I don't know if any US banks offer the same facility.

Briggsy - thanks "I did not know that" (who used to say that?). I have an account with RBS and I think they charge me 1% regardless (I don't use it much so I can't remember). Although I'm a Brit most of my money is in the US so that is the bulk of my experience. The Nationwide deal is very good, I must say; I'll have to look into it. I'm not aware of any US banks offering such a deal - perhaps someone can tell us (prediction - Naam will tell us there is one but not who it is!).

Posted

Just looked it up for you.

Assuming you have an RBS debit card, you will be hit for 2.75% on all foreign transactions.

Then in addition you will have to pay....

another 2% for an ATM withdrawal (minimum £2 maximum £5) or

another £1.25 for a "point-of sale transaction". (I'm guessing this means buying stuff in shops.)

Scandalous charges if you ask me, particularly if you are making lots of little transactions.

Here's the link.

http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/current-accounts/g2/terms.ashx

Posted
Just looked it up for you.

Assuming you have an RBS debit card, you will be hit for 2.75% on all foreign transactions.

Then in addition you will have to pay....

another 2% for an ATM withdrawal (minimum £2 maximum £5) or

another £1.25 for a "point-of sale transaction". (I'm guessing this means buying stuff in shops.)

Scandalous charges if you ask me, particularly if you are making lots of little transactions.

Here's the link.

http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/current-accounts/g2/terms.ashx

Cheers Briggsy - blimey, I'll be more careful in future. Since you took the trouble to do some research I went online to check a recent transaction and I have cut and pasted the relevant detail as follows

01DEC08 , BANGKOK BANK , BANGKOK THA , THB 10000.00, RATE 52.1159, ERTF 5.28, CHARGE 3.94 201.10

So, although they gave me a rate of 52.1159, with charges the true rate worked out to a paltry 49.73 (about). So, I figure with Nationwide I'd have been about THB500 better off, or three pints of Guinness in my favourite watering hole!

Posted

Yes, that's why I switched from my LloydsTSB, who have virtually the same charges as RBS, to Nationwide. The difference is not small.

Posted

When the available evidence points to the opposite, I see your failure to provide a source as suspect.

Exchange rates are not guarded secrets. If "half a dozen multinational banks located in Europe and Singapore" are quoting weaker offshore rates, it should be very simple to provide a link. These are market rates offered to customers.

So once again please provide a link or source to back up your assertion.

it seems you have no idea about international banking. that's why i withdraw from a useless discussion :D

And with a stereotypical condescending quip, Naam leaves the building, having failed to provide a source or a link. Rather telling that.

Some people find it very difficult to say, "I don't know." or "I was wrong."

i wonder what you will say now after being taught a lesson :o here are your requested links, have fun:

UBS https://nae.ubs.com/cache/app/RKC/1/ACEUrlD...ets_instruments

Goldman Sachs https://webid2.gs.com/cgi-bin/external/login.cgi?

Credit Suisse https://research-and-analytics.csfb.com/res...ytics/login.fcc?

Citigroup https://fidirect.citigroup.com/public/login.cgi?t=/

JPMorgan https://iblogin.jpmorgan.com/sso/action/login?

Merrill Lynch http://www.mlx.ml.com/_mem_bin/formslogin.asp

general access #1 https://bond.hub.com/html/Login.html

Posted
I have to agree with Briggsy in general; the threads on this forum are full of posts like Naam's where "facts" are stated without any supporting evidence.

anybody with IQ above 82.5 should know that the access to quotes and research of multinational banks is not given to every Bill, Buck, Hank or Joe.

for the record: it took me years of efforts and pulling strings (not to mention an annual average trading turnover of $ 20-25 mm) to gain access!

next thing i expect is to post my username and password as well as handing over my SecurID chip to verify my claim :o

Posted

And with a stereotypical condescending quip, Naam leaves the building, having failed to provide a source or a link. Rather telling that.

Some people find it very difficult to say, "I don't know." or "I was wrong."

i wonder what you will say now after being taught a lesson :o here are your requested links, have fun:

UBS https://nae.ubs.com/cache/app/RKC/1/ACEUrlD...ets_instruments

Goldman Sachs https://webid2.gs.com/cgi-bin/external/login.cgi?

Credit Suisse https://research-and-analytics.csfb.com/res...ytics/login.fcc?

Citigroup https://fidirect.citigroup.com/public/login.cgi?t=/

JPMorgan https://iblogin.jpmorgan.com/sso/action/login?

Merrill Lynch http://www.mlx.ml.com/_mem_bin/formslogin.asp

general access #1 https://bond.hub.com/html/Login.html

You must be very deluded. As you are aware, I politely requested any source backing your claim that the baht is weaker offshore. You have provided........wait for it...........7 blank login pages!!!! <deleted>??? :D:D:D

All these show is that you hold accounts with these banks and say absolutely nothing about the exchange rates.

In fact, rather than "teach me a lesson", they simply prove my earlier point that you have still failed to back your assertions a single shred of evidence, whilst still relying on your self-proclaimed status as TV's unquestionable expert on international banking.

Once again, point me to any credible source supporting your assertion. And please no more Login pages.

Posted
Once again...

...go to your ATM, withdraw 1,000 Baht and be happy :D you still did not understand anything but my time is too valuable to discuss colours with blind people :o

Posted
Once again...

...go to your ATM, withdraw 1,000 Baht and be happy :D you still did not understand anything but my time is too valuable to discuss colours with blind people :o

Again know-it-all condescending remarks.

Please either

1) address the issue at hand or

2) do as you have promised to do twice and don't return to this thread.

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