Gear Selection Problem

[G54]

This week I am having difficulty with my auto gearbox.

I can select reverse gear and it engages quickly yet when I put the selector into drive it takes several seconds to engage. Same applies to 1st and 2nd gear selection.

Once engaged there seems to be no problem driving until I stop at a junction and then it has difficulty engaging drive to pull away.

Advice needed please as to the nature of the problem if anyone can advise so I have an idea what to have done to rectify the problem.

TIA

[bino]

This week I am having difficulty with my auto gearbox.

I can select reverse gear and it engages quickly yet when I put the selector into drive it takes several seconds to engage. Same applies to 1st and 2nd gear selection.

Once engaged there seems to be no problem driving until I stop at a junction and then it has difficulty engaging drive to pull away.

Advice needed please as to the nature of the problem if anyone can advise so I have an idea what to have done to rectify the problem.

TIA

I'd say your transmission is headed for failure. Have you checked the transmission fluid level / color? Should be nice red color. If it is turning brown, head for a repair shop ASAP.

Just out of curiousity- what kind of car? How old / how many miles on it?

[G54]

125,000 K on the clock - suspect it is clocked.

9 years old.

Ford gearbox.

Now dark will check the fluid for colour tomorrow.

Hmmm, sounds like a large payout to the local garage - mai bpen rai

[bino]

Hmmm, sounds like a large payout to the local garage - mai bpen rai

Yup.

Be wary of local / backyard mechanics. Despite their simplicity from the driver's seat, automatic transmissions are incredibly complex. Lots of precision parts and finely machined "passages" to control the transmission fluid. Repairing them properly takes a qualified mechanic working in a nice clean shop to ensure that more dirt and crap does not end up inside the transmission.

If your repair is any less than top-notch, you will be headed for more heartaches and repairs down the road, and probably a short road at that.

A possible alternative is to buy a used transmission from a recycler- this will probably be cheaper than tearing down and repairing your existing transmission. Definitely more do-able by the backyard mechanic.

Whichever way you go- repairing your transmission or replacing with a used one - I'd consider selling the car as soon as possible afterward.

Good info about automatic transmissions here and here.

[stingray]

Why you want sell, when you replace or overhauled the "tranny"? You should sell it now or keep it if you spending the money to replace or repair it.

Anyway, this is a fluid pressure problem what you have now. First of all change the ATM Fluid and the Filter (Cheapest way to try). If the problem still there you can replace all the seals and O- rings inside the automatic transmission and the problem is gone. But your oil is brown, instead of read, it's mean you have worn out clutchplates, maybe steel plates stilll intact. So anyway if they would open the transmission, they could change the clutch plates and the inner sealings. Easy to say, but difficult to do. For temporary use you can add some Wins Product (Automatic Reconditionoer). It can help for a while. If you choice to go for a repair job, It have to be a qualified mechanic who do this, but as far as i know, i don't think you are beable to find some local boy or even any dealership who can do this kind of job. If you are in Pattaya, i can help you. If you are not, it's the better and faster way tho look for a good used Automatic Transmission. There are plenty available between 15 and 25'k. I don't know what kind of Ford you have. If it's a Mondeo, then i feel sorry for you. In this case it's better to sale it cheap right now. Mondeos are the worstest Nightmare in Thailand.

[bino]

Why you want sell, when you replace or overhauled the "tranny"?

Quite simply, unless the repairs were made by a factory trained technician in a first class immaculate shop, and guaranteed for at least one year (but preferably two or three), I wouldn't trust the car anymore. Same goes for a transmission from the salvage yard. It is a good solution to get the car on the road quickly and as cheaply as possible, but at the end of the day it is another 9 year old transmission with an unknown history. It might run for years, but it might fail the next day.

Same again for the "Wynn's Automatic Conditioner" fix. I wouldn't trust that for too long either. In fact, I'd probably be more paranoid waiting for the symptoms to return or the transmission to fail.

When automatic transmissions fail, they fail spectacularly. Not unheard of for the casing to break open and leaves planetary gears and clutch assemblies all over the road. Also, they can "lock up" as if they are in the "Park" position. This means that there is no easy way to even push your car off the road when it happens: the services of a tow truck will be required. Murphy's law dictates that it will happen in the worst possible place: the Sukhumvit / Asoke intersection at 5 PM, or late at night on an upcountry highway.

Stingray- we all know that you advocate owning old cars for their strength and ease of repair. That's great, but not for me. I like having a car that I know and trust as the main form of transportation, knowing that my Ms. will be safe when she drives it and not worry about something breaking / or her being stranded on the road. For me, old cars are prone to breaking down are a fun hobby / project / weekend drivers.

[BSJ]

Some people swap out the defective auto for a manual. Most mass produced cars are an easy swap. I've done Toyota, Nissan and Mazda some in as little as 4 hours! Just a thought.

[bino]

Some people swap out the defective auto for a manual.

Not a bad idea- I'd be more inclined to believe that a Thai backyard mechanic could do this much better than repairing an automatic box!

[monty]

I'm not that worried on older style automatic overhauls.

There's an Aisin Wagner 71 under my Volvo (25 years old, overhaul was 15,000 Baht. and it has been going strong for 85,000 km since.

Same symptoms, only on mine it was reverse which didn't want to engage...

[G54]

Thanks for the replies

I have read the posts with interest and a couple of points...

OK, I have checked the transmission fluid.

The level is in the shaded area where it says 'do not fill'.

The fluid is not red it is 'clear brown', the same as the engine oil. Deffo not red as in power steering fluid. Yet the oil looks clear and new - wondering here if the oil replaced was not to specification???

Transmission fluid is supposed to be Mercon F3RY 7A020 AD - but googling for it brings up Russian sites to check on the oil.

The interesting point brought up has been to add a manual transmission instead of overhauling / repairing the auto box. I have always preferred a manual box.

That leads me to the question of installing a manual box. Easy enough to do to replace the auto box?

I think I can get a manual box from Rangsit & get it looked at before I buy it. Though not sure on the cost.

We do have an authorised dealer here in Nakhon Sawan for Ford and I will be in touch with them soon - when my mate gets out of bed as their English is not the best

Then I can ask them to look at it and see how much.

If the repair is in the region of 15,000 as Monty then that would not be too bad.

[stingray]

Why you want sell, when you replace or overhauled the "tranny"?

Quite simply, unless the repairs were made by a factory trained technician in a first class immaculate shop, and guaranteed for at least one year (but preferably two or three), I wouldn't trust the car anymore. Same goes for a transmission from the salvage yard. It is a good solution to get the car on the road quickly and as cheaply as possible, but at the end of the day it is another 9 year old transmission with an unknown history. It might run for years, but it might fail the next day.

Same again for the "Wynn's Automatic Conditioner" fix. I wouldn't trust that for too long either. In fact, I'd probably be more paranoid waiting for the symptoms to return or the transmission to fail.

When automatic transmissions fail, they fail spectacularly. Not unheard of for the casing to break open and leaves planetary gears and clutch assemblies all over the road. Also, they can "lock up" as if they are in the "Park" position. This means that there is no easy way to even push your car off the road when it happens: the services of a tow truck will be required. Murphy's law dictates that it will happen in the worst possible place: the Sukhumvit / Asoke intersection at 5 PM, or late at night on an upcountry highway.

Stingray- we all know that you advocate owning old cars for their strength and ease of repair. That's great, but not for me. I like having a car that I know and trust as the main form of transportation, knowing that my Ms. will be safe when she drives it and not worry about something breaking / or her being stranded on the road. For me, old cars are prone to breaking down are a fun hobby / project / weekend drivers.

I recoment the OP, the easiest, best and cheapes way to get things done. I try to help. Sure another thing is to change it to a manual, why not, but not when you living in Bangkok or Pattaya, otherwise i would consider this option too. I changed maybe more than 150 used auto gearboxes, here in Thailand, imported from Japan and NEVER one fail. Some peaple got paranhoid in everything, because the B...sh administration, teached them that way of living. I's typicly for americans. My Ant from California changed her 3 year old cadillac for a new one, because the battery was dead one day. If we buy automatic Trasmissions, we choice them and open the sump on it to see the condition. If you have enought money, yes, go ahead and buy a new car. It's the easiest, expensivest and fastest way to get out of the troubles. BTW i not try to sale something, therefore i recommend the OP to get the Aut Transmission in Bangna. Just trying to help. And one more thing: We have new cars for my company, but my Missis is not to fine to drive a 20 year old Nissan Cedric 3 liter 6 cylinder (wich is more safe anyway than a new Jazz, for example) and she never had a "breakdown". She doesn't need to show off with a new car as many other ladies do.

[G54]

Why you want sell, when you replace or overhauled the "tranny"?

Quite simply, unless the repairs were made by a factory trained technician in a first class immaculate shop, and guaranteed for at least one year (but preferably two or three), I wouldn't trust the car anymore. Same goes for a transmission from the salvage yard. It is a good solution to get the car on the road quickly and as cheaply as possible, but at the end of the day it is another 9 year old transmission with an unknown history. It might run for years, but it might fail the next day.

Same again for the "Wynn's Automatic Conditioner" fix. I wouldn't trust that for too long either. In fact, I'd probably be more paranoid waiting for the symptoms to return or the transmission to fail.

When automatic transmissions fail, they fail spectacularly. Not unheard of for the casing to break open and leaves planetary gears and clutch assemblies all over the road. Also, they can "lock up" as if they are in the "Park" position. This means that there is no easy way to even push your car off the road when it happens: the services of a tow truck will be required. Murphy's law dictates that it will happen in the worst possible place: the Sukhumvit / Asoke intersection at 5 PM, or late at night on an upcountry highway.

Stingray- we all know that you advocate owning old cars for their strength and ease of repair. That's great, but not for me. I like having a car that I know and trust as the main form of transportation, knowing that my Ms. will be safe when she drives it and not worry about something breaking / or her being stranded on the road. For me, old cars are prone to breaking down are a fun hobby / project / weekend drivers.

I recoment the OP, the easiest, best and cheapes way to get things done. I try to help. Sure another thing is to change it to a manual, why not, but not when you living in Bangkok or Pattaya, otherwise i would consider this option too. I changed maybe more than 150 used auto gearboxes, here in Thailand, imported from Japan and NEVER one fail. Some peaple got paranhoid in everything, because the B...sh administration, teached them that way of living. I's typicly for americans. My Ant from California changed her 3 year old cadillac for a new one, because the battery was dead one day. If we buy automatic Trasmissions, we choice them and open the sump on it to see the condition. If you have enought money, yes, go ahead and buy a new car. It's the easiest, expensivest and fastest way to get out of the troubles. BTW i not try to sale something, therefore i recommend the OP to get the Aut Transmission in Bangna. Just trying to help. And one more thing: We have new cars for my company, but my Missis is not to fine to drive a 20 year old Nissan Cedric 3 liter 6 cylinder (wich is more safe anyway than a new Jazz, for example) and she never had a "breakdown". She doesn't need to show off with a new car as many other ladies do.

Stingray, I have taken note of your posts.

I now have to decide either to use a trusted mechanic to check the gearbox out or take it direct to Ford themseleves as they also are only a few kilometers down the road and get them to look. I do not have the equipment myself to start to fix the motor, unlike 'back home' where I have almost everything from a screwdriver to a trolley jack.

Taking the car a long way does not seem a good idea at the moment because I do not know for sure the extent of the problem.

If there is a serious problem and it means a lot of expensive work on the gearbox how much do you think for an exchange auto box? Or for a manual box, for that matter?

I would have thought that a recon box - if repaired correctly - should have no problems.

[bino]

The level is in the shaded area where it says 'do not fill'.

Was the engine running when you checked it? I should be- this would probably bring the level down. Otherwise, it has been overfilled.

The fluid is not red it is 'clear brown', the same as the engine oil. Deffo not red as in power steering fluid. Yet the oil looks clear and new - wondering here if the oil replaced was not to specification???

Clear brown?? That is weird. Unless it is some Thai / Asian brand, every transmission fluid I have ever seen is red. Power steering fluid is a good comparison, because they are both essentially hydraulic oils.

Easy enough to do to replace the auto box?

Sure - with some caveats. Make sure you get the whole assembly including the drive shafts, pedals and all brackets / hardware for them. Also- check that the master brake cylinder and the power assist are the same for both models. I've seen situations where they are different.... more compact brake hardware because there will be two master cylinders side by side in a manual transmission situation.

The worst part is installing the pedals. It means being upside down under the dashboard or possibly removing the dashboard to do.

Price- no idea. I've never done anything like it here. Stingray says he has done more than 150... probably can tell you quite accurately.

I'll venture a guess- that it will probably cost about 12 - 15K.

I would have thought that a recon box - if repaired correctly - should have no problems.

Sure- if you have access to a dealer mechanic, and they are qualified / competent with automatic transmissions, and their facility is decent, then go for it. However, it is not difficult to imagine the typical Thai "Somchai" auto mechanic - especially upcountry- that will be working under a tarpaulin and tearing your transmission apart on a hard packed / oil drenched dirt floor. This is definitely to be avoided.

I recoment the OP, the easiest, best and cheapes way to get things done. I try to help. Sure another thing is to change it to a manual, why not, but not when you living in Bangkok or Pattaya, otherwise i would consider this option too. I changed maybe more than 150 used auto gearboxes, here in Thailand, imported from Japan and NEVER one fail. Some peaple got paranhoid in everything, because the B...sh administration, teached them that way of living. I's typicly for americans. My Ant from California changed her 3 year old cadillac for a new one, because the battery was dead one day. If we buy automatic Trasmissions, we choice them and open the sump on it to see the condition. If you have enought money, yes, go ahead and buy a new car. It's the easiest, expensivest and fastest way to get out of the troubles. BTW i not try to sale something, therefore i recommend the OP to get the Aut Transmission in Bangna. Just trying to help. And one more thing: We have new cars for my company, but my Missis is not to fine to drive a 20 year old Nissan Cedric 3 liter 6 cylinder (wich is more safe anyway than a new Jazz, for example) and she never had a "breakdown". She doesn't need to show off with a new car as many other ladies do.

Jeez Stingray, you carry a pretty big chip on your shoulder, don't you?

Like I said- If you (and apparently your wife) like old cars, that's great. I do too. There are lots of great cars that will never be built again. Messing around with them is a fun hobby.

However, my family's main daily driver will always be a car that I can trust 100%, has always been serviced and repaired correctly with the right parts, and doesn't require carrying a toolbox in the trunk at all times.

It's a nice feeling to know that if I wake up tomorrow with the inclination to drive to Phuket, or I have to be at the airport in the wee hours of the morning to catch an international flight, or stuck in Bangkok traffic under hot afternoon sun for a couple of hours, that we have a car that is ready and will not let us down. If I can afford it, that is my prerogative. If it makes my lady happy, that is a good thing too and pays off in lots of other ways! I even indulged her a little- the current car has the first automatic transmission I have ever owned! She wanted it, and after living here in the stop and go traffic of the city for long enough, I gave in.

I don't expect you to agree with my point of view, but I don't expect you to be arrogant or insulting either.

[G54]

Thanks for the additional info, Bino. Informative, especially as I have been used to a manual gearbox for all my driving years

I'll be getting some new oil put in this afternoon - in case a mistake has been made - and if that makes no difference I will take it to the local Ford dealer and get them to have a look. Seems to me it can do little more harm than may already have been done and will only add a few more days to the problem as I test it with some new oil in.

[stingray]

[

Stingray, I have taken note of your posts.

I now have to decide either to use a trusted mechanic to check the gearbox out or take it direct to Ford themseleves as they also are only a few kilometers down the road and get them to look. I do not have the equipment myself to start to fix the motor, unlike 'back home' where I have almost everything from a screwdriver to a trolley jack.

Taking the car a long way does not seem a good idea at the moment because I do not know for sure the extent of the problem.

If there is a serious problem and it means a lot of expensive work on the gearbox how much do you think for an exchange auto box? Or for a manual box, for that matter?

I would have thought that a recon box - if repaired correctly - should have no problems.

I guess you'll find a auto gearbox in Bang Na arround 15 to 18'k + installation, labour. new fluid, filter and gasket, maybe another 5'000 Baht. All together you should not pay more than 25'k for replacing the auto gearbox. Manual i guess it's cheaper, maybe 15'k. Prices are variabvle, it's depend what Ford you have. As i sayd before, if you have a Mondeo, then it's hopeless. Many other Ford, like Lasers, Asipres, or Pick Up Trucks are similar to Mazda. So it should be easy to find a second hand gearbox or automatic transmission. Regarding the fluid: It will be brown if never replaced before. ATM fluid is not a oil, it is a synthetic fluid, but even this fluid and the filter, wich is inside the transmission, should be replaced at least every 50'000 km. Good fluid is red, old and bad fluid getting brown because worn material of the clutch plates. The first one wich will fail, is usally the clutchplates of the overdrive. The position overdrive is the one you using mostly if you living up country. In the city maybe not. In Bangkok i can recommend the Ford Dealer in Rangsit "Cycle and Carrier". Up Country i don't know if the staff is trained enought to overhaul a tranny, therefore i would go for a replacement. Have to be careful. I had a US Ford Taurus, 4 years ago. I sold it and later the customer had some troublems with the ATM Tranmission and went to a Ford Company Rayong. They gave the tranny somwhere else to averhaul it. 6 monts and 180'000 Baht later finally the car was ready, but the problem still there. So than the customer came back to me and i found out it was the speed sensor, not the automatic transmission who's makin the trouble. After replacing the speedsensor, everything working fine. We allways get some expirience, therefore i would recommend to go for a used ATM Transmission.

[G54]

^^ Food for thought. Thanks

[Lickey]

its one of 2 things, most probaly a clutch hub inner/outer seal worn [1st & 2nd uses near the same clutch drum, just auto moves the hubs when speed changes} or a sticking shift valve/weak/broken spring in the shift valve body.

OP, you say that car engages reverse as normal, [this is a clutch hub on its own] so that would suggest that oil level is correct, as reverse selection relieves all the other valves of pressure, its a saftey thing, just to make sure forward and reverse cant ever be selected at the same time.

Clear oil is ok, usually its red as others have said, but if its clear no clouding and doesnt smell like burnt chestnuts it should be ok, to check level, start engine, move shift lever through selections, select park then check, this action fills all the hubs/drums/torque converter with oil and will give you the best reading.

What will eventually happen with this problem is that the 1st & 2nd clutches will burn out due to low oil pressure, the resulting contamination will of course get into the valve body/other clutches/tourque converter and mess them up as well, so it will be a good idea to make a decesion now.

As for where to get it repaired, ive no idea, sorry, other posters have, and if you go the way of a manual box, dont forget to purchase the flywheel and clutch assembly, gearstick ect ect ect ,

Good Luck Lickey..

[torrenova]

Can someone with more knowledge than me (nearly none, except financial) please tell me why someone would pay 25k or more for a recon or second hand auto box when the price differential between a manual and an auto when new is 40k ?

Surely the total, new for old replacement cost should be around 40k - No ? And presumably that oe would be as new and thus good for X00,000 km ?

[stingray]

Can someone with more knowledge than me (nearly none, except financial) please tell me why someone would pay 25k or more for a recon or second hand auto box when the price differential between a manual and an auto when new is 40k ?

Surely the total, new for old replacement cost should be around 40k - No ? And presumably that oe would be as new and thus good for X00,000 km ?

Price difference is maybe 40'k when you buy a new car. In US i use to buy new chevy 350 automatic transmission for 399 USD. but in Thailand i asked once for a new automatic transmission for a older Honda civic. honda dealer want more than 100'k. I don't even think there are nwe ones available, but you can try.

[dumball]

Quite a few suggestions being made here , one thing I noticed was overlooked for installing the standard transmission which could prove disasterous if forgotten . There is a bronze bushing that needs to be fitted in the rear of the crankshaft for the primary/first motion shaft to fit into , it is not there for automatic transmission .

[Lickey]

Bronze bush, you are going back a lot of years, the spigot brg is normally a roller bearing and has been for many years, anyway, its fitted in the flywheel, not the crankshaft.

[Lickey]

Didnt mean my previous post to be mis=leading, ive mainly been involved in commercial trans, and the spigot brg is in the flywheel, as for cars, im not sure, but easy to check when its open,

Cheers, Lickey,